Any Thoughts On Tiger Woods' Discussion Of His Buddhist Roots During His "apology"?

[phetaroi]

?

[camerata]

Well, there were only a couple of sentences about Buddhism being part of his recovery. He claimed, "I was raised a Buddhist, and I actively practiced my faith from childhood until I drifted away from it in recent years."

But what exactly was he practising since childhood?

"A 1996 Sports Illustrated profile suggested that Woods -- then in his early 20s -- took his faith seriously. He visited a Buddhist temple with his mother each year around his birthday, slept near a mother-of-pearl Buddha from his Thai grandfather, and wore a gold Buddha around his neck, according to the profile. Woods' mother, Kultilda, is a Thai-born Buddhist."

If that's the extent of it, he'll be starting from scratch rather than going back to Buddhism.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/02/19/t...hism/index.html

[Naam]

Woods is an excellent golfplayer but a despicable hypocrite who is trying hard to make more millions with bla-bla that nobody in his right mind will believe

[Samuian]

Why did he marry in the first place?

There is a lesson there somewhere...!

[IMA_FARANG]

Whatever he is, he is only a human being, with the faults all humans have.

Some people seem to think he is somehow more than human, but he has proved that he is not.

He is just another human being trying to find his path...with all the problems we all have.

Probably his Buddhisim was learned in his early childhood, from his parents, as a assumed matter of course without too much thought regarding it.

At least he is learning and growing in his understanding...for that reason alone, let him be.

First of all, censure yourself before you censure others.

Compassion and understanding are the path of a true Buddhist.

So let him be, let him be to grow in his understanding, and therefore show compassion for him.

Edited February 20, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[phetaroi]

Whatever he is, he is only a human being, with the faults all humans have.

Some people seem to think he is somehow more than human, but he has proved that he is not.

He is just another human being trying to find his path...with all the problems we all have.

Probably his Buddhisim was learned in his early childhood, from his parents, as a assumed matter of course without too much thought regarding it.

At least he is learning and growing in his understanding...for that reason alone, let him be.

First of all, censure yourself before you censure others.

Compassion and understanding are the path of a true Buddhist.

So let him be, let him be to grow in his understanding, and therefore show compassion for him.

I guess I have to disagree with you from this respect. His statement yesterday was very formulaic. It followed the same basic script that now almost countless celebrities have used when they have gotten caught, whether it was using illicit drugs, sports enhancing drugs, or now -- in Tiger's case -- sex addiction. Tiger can't have things both ways, although he consistently tries.

For example, yesterday he said the press should leave his wife and children out of it because that's his private family life. Yet, who is it who periodically hires a professional photographer to take professional family photos; who then has those family photos placed on his website...the purpose of which is -- primarily -- to increase his income. Tiger did it. More than once. He brought his family life into the public sphere.

So why is discussing his religion/philosophy "fair game"? Because -- once again -- he brought it to the public's attention. He didn't "find Jesus", like so many in similar straits have, but he seems to be indicating that he "rediscovered" Buddhism. And in some ways that makes Tiger Woods "a face" of Buddhism to many people, particularly in non-Buddhist countries...which is most of the world.

I've certainly never been a celebrity, but I was a school principal back in Virginia, and in a small sphere, that's a pretty public job. While it was no secret that I was Buddhist, I don't believe I ever brought up the topic. If asked about it, I would respond to the appropriate extent, based on the specific situation. But that is the key difference -- I never raised the issue, so for the most part, it arely became part of the discussion and never an issue. That is quite different from Tiger raising the issue in a public setting.

There's lots more I could say about the situation, but I'm limiting my discussion here to just Tiger's raising of the Buddhism issue.

[kurnell]

I don't undertand the fuss. He cheated n his wife, so how is he different from any other sportstar/rockstar/moviestar/celebrity?

[ronz28]

He should have left religion out of it. Christians may just say Buddhism is the root of his behavior problem since most religions have no real tolerance for other religions. The laws of countries keep the religious fanatics from doing harm to each other and some might blame Buddhism for his situation.

[ScubaBuddha]

His Buddhism has nothing to do with anything. Every public figure invokes religion when looking for redemption.

Woods is an excellent golfplayer but a despicable hypocrite who is trying hard to make more millions with bla-bla that nobody in his right mind will believe

I wouldn't go so far as call him a despicable hypocrite. I believe him to be socially underdeveloped.

A friend of a friend of mine was one of his college roommates. It was very interesting listening to him describe Tiger back then, and how and he and others that new him are not very surprised about the recent events in Tigers life. Not that he thought Tiger was going to necessarily end up and adulterer, but that back then Tiger was incredibly socially inept, anti-social even.

Tigers life evolved around one thing, golf. He said Tiger was a great kid, but he didn't socialize well, had no girlfriends, was intimidated by women and social situations. Yes Tiger is technically an adult and should know right from wrong, but in many ways he is really he is still just a kid mentally. Tiger was ill equipped to handle the fame and pressure, and he subsequently made some very, well, juvenile mistakes once he got rich and famous and movie stars and models began throwing themselves at him. His media described aloofness is a symptom of this as well.

Just look at one of the text messages he reportedly sent to one of his mistresses.

"Send me something very naughty...Go to the bathroom and take (a picture)."

He's a 34 year old man that's still sexting!!

I'm not excusing his actions, only providing a little context with which maybe we can understand him a little better. A lot of us are socially and inter-personally challenged and don't cheat on our wives, but it does go a long way to help understand his behavior.

I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

Edited February 20, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[IMA_FARANG]

O.K. let's talk about "Tiger" and Buddhisim.

I grew up in the U.S.A. I grew up as a "Christian". I remember when I "dedicated" my life to Christ. It was just a thing everyone said. They had teams of evangelists that came around, made you feel that somehow you were not worthwhile unless you "accepted Jesus" as your "personal saviour". It was incorporated as a part of the local society, you were a Christian, without taking much thought of it.

Tiger grew up around Buddhisim. He saw it from his mother and the values she showed him. I'm sure for him, as a young man, it was just a thing he did without much thought, as my Christianity was.

As I grew older, I traveled a lot and lived in many countries. I saw different religions. I grew and matured. I also had my days of sowing wild oats, booze and women. I was still young, and it meant nothing to me. As I got older I became more serious about my "religion" and my spirituality. I went through many religions, and ended up, by my choice, as a Buddhist. It means something to me now.

I suspect that Tiger is going through a similiar thing...does Buddhisim really mean anything to him? I don't know, but I hope so. I hope his current problems are making him think more seriously about his life.

Be cynical if you want too...but I know from my own personal experience that there is a big difference between what you feel about life at 30 and what you feel about life at 60.

That's why I said, whatever he is going through, leave him alone and let him find his own way. Really, what else is there, anyhow, in the end than what you learn and find in your own heart?

Compassion and understanding. Censure yourself first, and not others. Speak truthfully and with consideration for the lives of others. Correct thought, Correct action, Correct understanding. That's what I learned from Buddhisim.

You can find me on the Buddhist chat forums, my name is Quiet Heart. I'm trying to make that name true.

Edited February 20, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Svenn]

He barely mentioned it at all, but what he did say I thought was moderately thoughtful as opposed to the usual buddhanet or hesse 'sidhartha' soundbites we hear:

"Buddhism teaches that a creation of things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security."

I would have referenced it a little more indirectly and subtly than that, but I don't think anyone will disagree with his basic affirmation. I do think it somewhat irresponsible for Tiger, for whom is many American's probably first encounter with a 'Buddhist', to think he should mention it during a sex scandal

[Xangsamhua]

I hope Woods is sincere in turning to the Buddha's teaching to help him reorient his life. I don't really want to analyze his motivations, but he really seems to have lost the plot. Having ten to twelve women on a string is more than just an unpremeditated infidelity. He seems to have not only been hypocritical (and he's hardly alone in that sin), but to have lost sight altogether of who he is as a person and the responsibilities that proceed from that.

The Dhamma will give him a foundation for rebuilding his life, if he seriously studies and tries to practice, hopefully with the support of a mature and experienced teacher and community. I hope he finds the right supports, as he doesn't seem the kind of person who could do it on his own.

I hope his mother can help, too, without taking control. He's now humiliated and, perhaps, remorseful, and she's stepped in as protector and defender. From what I've read, Khun Kultida doesn't seem to really grasp the seriousness of his actions or the degree of responsibility he needs to take. If his vulnerability places him in her hands she'll need to be sure she doesn't smother him or distract him by complaining about media voyeurism. That would hardly help him to get the benefits from Dhamma practice and study.

[Svenn]

Having ten to twelve women on a string is more than just an unpremeditated infidelity. He seems to have not only been hypocritical (and he's hardly alone in that sin), but to have lost sight altogether of who he is as a person and the responsibilities that proceed from that.

That's a good point, especially the 'unpremeditated' part- they always act like it was a 'mistake' or 'accident', but he made this conscious decision to cheat dozens of times, I think he already made the moral decision in his head about whether it was right or not. I doubt he'll change and I think it's artificial for him to pretend like he will. Many couples these days make agreements to have 'open marriages' where they can have other partners... Woods really should have found a wife like that. Frankly I think the whole thing is somewhat ridiculous- everybody knows he's probably a good husband and good father... these little side games are just selfish, prurient acts that are insulting to egos.

I won't get many people to agree with me, but I truly believe the heart of Buddhism is entirely amoral, and to relegate it some place in this discussion about sexual ethics, or any aspect our petty material lives, is a bit profane to my eyes... but that's just my opinion.

[lazygourmet]

Here is the link to an article that I've found interesting, on the Bhuddist blog.

[Xangsamhua]

Here is the link to an article that I've found interesting, on the Bhuddist blog.

Thanks LG.

Who was the teacher referred to in this statement: Once Tiger was ready, the teacher arrived to help him blaze a new trail?

And (perhaps getting a bit off-topic), his statement: I think that this incident is between him and his wife suggests that his various mistresses are non-persons, or passive participants. To what extent are they victims? To what extent culpable? The results of wrong action are not easily contained. By engaging in irresponsible behaviour with all these women, some of whom may be as culpable as he is, some of them just misguided, Tiger's actions affect many more people than just his wife and children.

On the other thread (in News Clippings) quite a few posters say that what he has done is no big deal; if he did it in Thailand people wouldn't make a fuss; most celebrities do it (especially US basketballers, apparently), and if the posters had the opportunity, they'd do it too. In behaving irresponsibly, however, as a result of Wrong View, Tiger has further encouraged the idea that sexual irresponsibility is a natural desire and therefore a rightful privilege of the wealthy. While Buddhism may not have a moral theology, in the sense of a divine natural law (the Catholic view) that guides one's conscience, Buddhism has a very strong view that wrong ideas lead to wrong actions, and these actions are wrong because they bring unhappiness to all engaged in them and bad karma to those who perpetrate them. Tiger and his ladies are seeing this now (though Tiger's perhaps seeing it more clearly than they are).

[phetaroi]

Here is the link to an article that I've found interesting, on the Bhuddist blog.

That's a pretty good article! Thanks for sharing it.

[phetaroi]

Be cynical if you want too...but I know from my own personal experience that there is a big difference between what you feel about life at 30 and what you feel about life at 60.

That's why I said, whatever he is going through, leave him alone and let him find his own way.

...Compassion and understanding. Censure yourself first, and not others. Speak truthfully and with consideration for the lives of others. Correct thought, Correct action, Correct understanding.

Yes, I quite agree that one does feel different about life and beliefs at age 60 (bingo!) than at age 30. Well, at least some of us do. Some of the posters that frequent other rooms in the forum...I'm not quite so sure!

You said we should "leave him alone". Who really created yesterdays media frenzy? Tiger did. There was no requirement that he appear before television cameras to be broadcast across the world. He scheduled the event. Have you visited his official website and seen the Tiger News, the Tiger Videos, the Tiger Photos, the Tiger Store (with free shipping for orders over $75!), the Tiger Bio, the Tiger Sponsors, Club Tiger, the Tiger Corporation, the Tiger Woods Foundation (which, by the way asks for your financial support), Tiger On Facebook, and more!?!? Tiger doesn't want to be "left alone" except when he desires to be left alone. Otherwise the Tiger Money Machine thrives on publicity created by Tiger's team of professional agents and related staff.

I am very interested in the aspect of this related to Buddhist compassion and that we should be compassionate toward Tiger. For me, this brings up a greater question that I really hadn't thought much about in the past, except in passing. What exactly is Buddhist compassion?

I read one article that said in Buddhism it is related to pity. Hmmmmmmm...Tiger's worth (in May 2009) was estimated at 600 million dollars, on the way to becoming sport's first billionaire. I will admit to you that I have a tough time feeling pity for a man who -- seemingly -- "had it all" and still wanted more. When I look back at the way I was raised, I think I could make a case that my family was compassionate toward me because one of the values they taught me was that a man will be held responsible for his actions. I was taught that sometimes he would be held responsible by the law, and other times he might be held responsible by the degree of respect or disdain given by others. Is not what Tiger has found himself in now nothing more than karma?

I'm asking these questions at a serious level because we have a life situation here that everyone knows a good deal about.

[camerata]

I once heard on a TV programme that Tiger Woods said Buddhism helped with his concentration. It sounded like he was trying to make out he was some kind of mystical Zen-golfer dude. But maybe not. While googling for the quote I cam across this article, Gandhi and Tiger Woods, written in 2000.

On the one hand:

Sure, Tiger Woods has his share of aspirations, and they are what keep him practicing so hard. But once he tees off in a tournament, they vanish; he has talked often about the importance of "staying in the present" and not letting your mind wander to the victory putt on the 18th hole. (Earl Woods on present-mindedness: "Time is just a linear measurement of successive increments of now. Any place you go on that line is now, and that's how you have to live it.")

and:

I think it's no coincidence that the greatest golfer in the history of the universe has a Buddhist mother. "I believe in Buddhism," Woods has said. "Not every aspect, but most of it. So I take bits and pieces. I don't believe that human beings can achieve ultimate enlightenment, because humans have flaws."

On the other:

Discipline, respect, responsibility—now there's a guy who could become a major-league role model! And with Woods—unlike, say Michael Jordan—you get the feeling that 1) he actually would be a pretty good role model, even if you observed him outside of the sports arena; and 2) he actually wants to be a good role model and isn't just saying that to inflate his product-endorsement price tag. "Athletes aren't as gentlemanly as they used to be," he has said. "I don't like that change. I like the idea of being a role model. It's an honor. People took the time to help me as a kid, and they impacted my life. I want to do the same for kids." Woods likes the Asian side of his heritage because "Asians are much more disciplined than we are."

"So I take bits and pieces. I don't believe that human beings can achieve ultimate enlightenment, because humans have flaws."

IMO, the above means he doesn't understand that Buddhism is a system designed to eradicate those flaws.

[bina]

It sounded like he was trying to make out he was some kind of mystical Zen-golfer dude.

geez, u made me snort up my coffee...

tiger may not have a real sense of who he is identity wise; in college he was probably trying to be 100% american but home influences do affect kids and some 'allofness' as seen by college kids could have been thai shyness . a friend of mine's daughter is haveing a similar problem in school here -- they claim she is 'aloof. but she is just shy until she does something she is really good at, and then she shines. so probably he has the same problem. so he runs with golf since he cant deal with people. just like people that are really in to horses/dogs/whatever. they arent always super social, or super developed in otehr ways; maybe even extremely childish in most daily life situtations. but they excel in a specific area like a sport. they are shy people or even slightly dysfunctional, hiding behind a facade which tends to take over.

for some one like that to get on the fast fast track w/o having the 'psychological equipment' to adjust and survive, i think they do lose the plot. he's not the first and not the last superstar that this happens to. just the word buddhist is a slight twist in the usual theme.

and i think his claim to buddhism is as others have said matches what happens to many sports stars here that start out young super stars who dont have the mental /psychological development /i.e. maturity to deal with fame and glory. so people will equate is 'buddhism' with what camerat has written: a super zen golfer. if he was christian then he would be considered to ahving jesus on his side; here, sports pros have rabbis that bless them and these guys cry when they recall their naughty deeds and how their 'rabbi' would be disappointed. and they fast on yom kippur , make it a public event, show how much they are 'family guys' and then repeat the hwole thing again.

bina

[phetaroi]

Two interesting developments. Today there is a news report that when asked about Tiger Woods' statement, the Dali Lama had never heard of Woods (poor TIger!), but he went on to say -- reportedly, that when it comes to adultery, “all religions have the same idea. Whether you call it Buddhism or another religion, self-discipline, that’s important. Self-discipline with awareness of consequences.” Assuming the rather long quote is accurate, you have the Dali Lama calling Buddhism a religion. Hmmmmm.

[NADTATIDA1]

"Buddhism teaches that a creation of things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security."

This might be taught in Thailand but it is not practised very much is it!

And i am interested in actually where Tigers mother hails from in Thailand,does she make visits to her extended family at all? or does she not bother with her home country now she is very comfortable in the states,he very rarely visits these shores all though i know he is only 1 quarter thai,but you would of thought his mother would advise him on buddhism and his correct path to take now.

The statement he made was just so awfuly american,even to the uncomfortable hugs at the end with forgiving relations,where was his wife?

[neverdie]

Yes of course his 'belief' had alot to do with this. For example, you wont find many cases of adultary in thailand because the majority of people are buddhist.

[ScubaBuddha]

Yes of course his 'belief' had alot to do with this. For example, you wont find many cases of adultary in thailand because the majority of people are buddhist.

[sabaijai]

I just watched the apology video. I didn't think his statement sounded formulaic at all, rather heartfelt and sincere. I admired Woods before and I admire even more now, for owning up to his actions and re-embracing Buddhism.

"Buddhism teaches that a creation of things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security."

The actual quote is "Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security. It teaches me to stop following every impulse and to learn restraint."

[khaowong1]

I just watched the apology video. I didn't think his statement sounded formulaic at all, rather heartfelt and sincere. I admired Woods before and I admire even more now, for owning up to his actions and re-embracing Buddhism.

"Buddhism teaches that a creation of things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security."

The actual quote is "Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security. It teaches me to stop following every impulse and to learn restraint."

I'm practicing my restraint by not commenting on this post.

[camerata]

According to news reports. Tiger was a womanizer before he married, and his wife knew all about it, but he promised to stop. And yet he was at it again soon after they tied the knot. So he needs to have some serious conventional therapy or get deeply into Buddhism to overcome his demons. For sure he's genuinely contrite now, but the temptations will be back in due course and sleeping next to a Buddha amulet won't do much to help. And if he falls off the wagon and starts bonking cocktail waitresses again, I imagine Christian commentators will blame Buddhism for being inadequate.

[jazzbo]

Bo An Buddhist Center, Inc. (Chua Bao An)

5788 Apopka Vineland Road

Orlando, FL 32818

Phone: 407-295-7846

http://www.chuabaoan.com/

About 5 miles or so from TW's Isleworth estate... I am sure they would love to have him... Vietnamese though, but he doesn't speak Thai anyway.

BTW I saw the current Mrs. Woods from a distance of about 5 feet prior to their marriage (I was a volunteer at Arnold Palmer's Bay Hill Invitational assisting the medic after she fainted)... spectacular.

Edited February 22, 2010 by jazzbo

[Wrong Turn]

Woods is an excellent golfplayer but a despicable hypocrite who is trying hard to make more millions with bla-bla that nobody in his right mind will believe

I don't think Woods is a hypocrite. I don't remember his preaching or advising people on how to live.

It's his business and his business only, and his wife's business.

Of course, the media love these scandal-stories for ratings and selling papers.

[phetaroi]

Woods is an excellent golfplayer but a despicable hypocrite who is trying hard to make more millions with bla-bla that nobody in his right mind will believe

I don't think Woods is a hypocrite. I don't remember his preaching or advising people on how to live.

It's his business and his business only, and his wife's business.

Of course, the media love these scandal-stories for ratings and selling papers.

Tiger's sort of like Frank Sinatra -- he wants to have it all his way.

No golfer in history has been marketed like Tiger. And I'm not talking just about endorsements. Go to his VERY COMMERCIAL website. Note the effort to shape the Tiger image. To the point of being overboard. And what is the overall purpose? I can only really think of two -- and I would have to say they are questionable since here we are focusing on the link to Buddhism -- Tiger's ego and $$$. And so here are the inconsistencies:

@ Tiger wants his private life to remain private. Yet, Tiger hires a professional photographer to take "professional family photos" (does that even make sense?) to be featured on his commercial website. So is his family life private, or public? He has made it public to the extent that it enhances his image and wealth. He wants to have it both ways.

@ Tiger wants his private life to remain private. Yet, he arranged for his public mea culpa -- about what he calls his private life -- that was to be broadcast over international television. He invited in the television cameras and certain members of the press. So is his sex life private or public? He made it public. Again, he wants to have it both ways.

@ When was the last time someone you knew said to you, "Sit down with me. I want to tell you something very important about me. I have to apologize to you and ask you for your help. Oh, but by the way, you're not allowed to talk because the only thing that is important is the world according to me, because I am Tiger Woods."

@ And now he may be approaching the point where he will do the same thing about Buddhism. Down the road, in some encounter with the press, he's going to be asked about Buddhism and how it's affected his personal crisis. I imagine -- based on past and current behavior -- he'll say something along the lines of, "Well, that's a personal matter." To which the press ought to reply, "No, it became a public matter when you brought it into the discussion."

Tiger naively believes he has put this all to rest, while in reality it will haunt him for the rest of his life. He will go on to be a successful golfer, although perhaps not as successful as in the past. He will go on to be rich, although almost certainly not as rich as he has been (I heard one assessment that he may have cut his potential wealth in half with these revelations). The shift that we are witnessing already is this -- now he's just a fabulous golfer. Tiger always wanted to me much more. If I were a non-Buddhist I would say, "Well, he made his bed, now let he lay in it." As a Buddhist I say, you see, karma marches on...even for Tiger Woods.

Had he been really smart -- instead of trying to control everything -- he would have gone to Ophra and said, "I'd like to do an hour-long interview with you. No studio audience. I know you'll be fair to me."

Someone mentioned earlier that we should have Buddhist compassion for him. Again, no one has defined what they mean by that.

[camerata]

"The sad fact in Tiger's public apology – aside from the strange fact that he felt the need to say anything at all to the public about his private affairs – is his dragging the Buddha into this mess. He tells us he was raised as a Buddhist, which, like Christianity, preaches restraint. In other words, the flesh is weak. Yet one can't help but wonder if Tiger's Buddhism isn't just a cop out, a coat of spiritual paint to spruce up his celebrity image in a way that will appeal to all those new age Californian media executives who will make sure he stays on TV. After all, Buddhism isn't about moral purity. It’s about reducing suffering by reducing desire."

Full story.