Does The Situation In Your Home Country Affect How You Feel About Thailand?

[Jingthing]

I do enjoy living in Thailand. However, being human, sometimes I miss some things about living in the USA. Probably most intensely when I think about good friends I have left behind. Then I consider how bad things are these days in the USA. Problems with massive long term employment, skyrocketing health care costs and lack of access for so many, political gridlock, etc. Then I am even happier to be living in Thailand!

I wonder how much this impacts our feelings about living here. If it was boom times in the US, days of easily obtainable lucrative employment, days when just living in a house you owned made you a fortune (on paper) every year, I think I would feel I was missing something really good. Now, I feel like I am missing something really bad back there. Any thoughts about this?

[SeanMoran]

It certainly does ruin the sentiments of a return flight, albeit we all have our own personal reasons for the frying-pan-over-fire presumptions.

I would not be so tenacious about remaining in Thailand if Australia was once again the civilised country it used to be. Fact is though, it was because I speak a little of the basic language that I chose here before Bangladesh or somewhere I might have felt welcome, beyond all the hip-hoorays I give for the culture and higher ideals that it's probably best not to elaborate on.

The main point IMHO, is that Thailand is a civilised country, but surely it's not the only one left on this planet.

[Jingthing]

Yes, these feelings could apply if expatriating to many countries, if your home country is going through a rough patch (or worse) and your situation is better in the new country. My personal feelings about the US is that it really is in a major decline that will take at least a decade to turn around if it does turn around, and then it won't be the same country anyway. I do feel lucky that I was there for the boom periods though (or I couldn't afford to be here now, ha ha).

Edited February 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[carmine]

If the economy in the UK had'nt collapsed i would have moved back well over a year ago. I did actually fly back to London but having spent a short there i realised that the economy was collapsing atleast i had an income in LOS so i returned and am trying to make the most of it.

At the end of the day, although it's not really my first choice there are an aweful lot worse places to live thats for sure.

[mojaco]

I'm 68. Thailand today feels like the 50's were in the USA = freedom from the civil suits that prevail now in the USA. Fun hayrides disappeared one year and never returned due to suits for example. The term "Land of the Free" is more appropriate for Thailand now than for the USA. Thailand is more fun (in a good sense).

Edited February 23, 2010 by mojaco

[F1fanatic]

It certainly does ruin the sentiments of a return flight, albeit we all have our own personal reasons for the frying-pan-over-fire presumptions.

I would not be so tenacious about remaining in Thailand if Australia was once again the civilised country it used to be. Fact is though, it was because I speak a little of the basic language that I chose here before Bangladesh or somewhere I might have felt welcome, beyond all the hip-hoorays I give for the culture and higher ideals that it's probably best not to elaborate on.

The main point IMHO, is that Thailand is a civilised country, but surely it's not the only one left on this planet.

Have to assume you're joking. Thailand is a civilised country?

Not the point though - I check the UK news every morning and find it more depressing by the day. The 'elite' are obviously taking everything they can whilst the country is being ruined. One can only hope that the people will eventually say 'no more'. But there are no signs that that will happen. As I say, depressing.

[britmaveric]

Things are good for some people everywhere!!!

[Jingthing]

Things are good for some people everywhere!!!

No doubt but not really the point.

I'm 68. Thailand today feels like the 50's were in the USA = freedom from the civil suits that prevail now in the USA. Fun hayrides disappeared one year and never returned due to suits for example. The term "Land of the Free" is more appropriate for Thailand now than for the USA. Thailand is more fun (in a good sense).

Yes Thailand is freer in many ways but in other ways less free.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[witold]

I think a lot of expats have a tendency to tell themselves things that aren't true or exaggerate.

"massive long term employment" - there is no massive unemployment. If you are very low skilled, low skilled jobs are not that hard to come by. If you have specific skills, you will be recruited hard by companies and compensation packages will reflect it. In contrast, as a foreigner, what sorts of jobs are available to you in Thailand? It seems like very, very few people can do anything aside from being a teacher because of various reasons.

"skyrocketing health care costs and lack of access for so many" - most employers in USA offer heath insurance. Otherwise, high deductible insurance is very cheap. If you need emergency treatment, you will not be turned away anywhere and this is why you have Mexican nationals crossing the border to receive care. I hear stories about one procedure costing X in USA and X in Thailand, which is true, but these figures don't apply to vast majority of people in the US because they pay less than they would in Thailand because of health insurance. I looked at some procedures in Thailand and none of them made financial sense for me. The exception being cosmetic procedures that are not covered by health insurance.

"political gridlock" - political gridlock is a lot better than a coup and civil unrest. What do you think will happen when the King eventually dies? I don't see this as a negative.

[Jingthing]

I think a lot of expats have a tendency to tell themselves things that aren't true or exaggerate.

"massive long term employment" - there is no massive unemployment. If you are very low skilled, low skilled jobs are not that hard to come by. If you have specific skills, you will be recruited hard by companies and compensation packages will reflect it. In contrast, as a foreigner, what sorts of jobs are available to you in Thailand? It seems like very, very few people can do anything aside from being a teacher because of various reasons.

"skyrocketing health care costs and lack of access for so many" - most employers in USA offer heath insurance. Otherwise, high deductible insurance is very cheap. If you need emergency treatment, you will not be turned away anywhere and this is why you have Mexican nationals crossing the border to receive care. I hear stories about one procedure costing X in USA and X in Thailand, which is true, but these figures don't apply to vast majority of people in the US because they pay less than they would in Thailand because of health insurance. I looked at some procedures in Thailand and none of them made financial sense for me. The exception being cosmetic procedures that are not covered by health insurance.

"political gridlock" - political gridlock is a lot better than a coup and civil unrest. What do you think will happen when the King eventually dies? I don't see this as a negative.

You are totally wrong. There is massive unemployment in the US. There is massive long term unemployment as well. Just read the newspapers. I know high skilled people who have been unemployed for years now, and can't even get interviews. A huge percentage of people have given up even looking.

Health care? You're joking, right? If you're unemployed you can't afford it. If you need to buy it privately and can afford it, if you have even basic common preexisting conditions, you cannot buy it at any price. In this crazy environment, the health insurance companies keep raising their premiums by radical percentages.

Politically? Yes Thailand is worse off, but debtwise for the long term, Thailand may be in better shape relative to the expectations of their people.

Not to mention how Americans were living off their home equities and now millions are just walking away from their houses they can't afford anymore that are worth much less than what they paid for them.

I know the US is only one country and not all western countries are that bad off, but I am sure the US is in the worse shape of my lifetime and I ain't young.

Number of long-term unemployed hits highest rate since 1948

Forty percent of all unemployed Americans, at least 6 million, have been out of work more than six months. Many are so discouraged they have lost hope that a job exists for them.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0108/Num...rate-since-1948

Nearly One in Five Americans Are Underemployed

The U.S. unemployment rate fell from 10 to 9.7 percent in January, but a Gallup poll released Tuesday shows that nearly one out of every five members of the country's workforce is underemployed. That's about 30 million Americans who are without jobs or unable to find full-time work. "Underemployed people spent 36 percent less on household purchases than their fully employed neighbors in January, while six out of 10 were not hopeful about their chances of finding adequate work in the coming month, the poll said," Reuters reported. "The poll comes at a time when voter anger over the slow economic recovery is running high and President Barack Obama's hopes of boosting employment through government programs have been frustrated by partisan rancor in Congress." The poll, which has only a one percentage point margin of error, also found that underemployed Americans have a more favorable view of the president than those with full-time work.

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2245709/entry/4/ Edited February 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[F1fanatic]

I think a lot of expats have a tendency to tell themselves things that aren't true or exaggerate.

"massive long term employment" - there is no massive unemployment. If you are very low skilled, low skilled jobs are not that hard to come by. If you have specific skills, you will be recruited hard by companies and compensation packages will reflect it. In contrast, as a foreigner, what sorts of jobs are available to you in Thailand? It seems like very, very few people can do anything aside from being a teacher because of various reasons.

"skyrocketing health care costs and lack of access for so many" - most employers in USA offer heath insurance. Otherwise, high deductible insurance is very cheap. If you need emergency treatment, you will not be turned away anywhere and this is why you have Mexican nationals crossing the border to receive care. I hear stories about one procedure costing X in USA and X in Thailand, which is true, but these figures don't apply to vast majority of people in the US because they pay less than they would in Thailand because of health insurance. I looked at some procedures in Thailand and none of them made financial sense for me. The exception being cosmetic procedures that are not covered by health insurance.

"political gridlock" - political gridlock is a lot better than a coup and civil unrest. What do you think will happen when the King eventually dies? I don't see this as a negative.

You're kidding right??!!

The low-skilled jobs are taken by anyone who's desperate enough to work for poverty wages - normally immigrants. Otherwise they would have to pay a reasonable wage.

The middle-sector jobs are being reduced all the time, whilst the top level jobs (directors etc) vote themselves massive pay increases to be paid for by getting rid of the workers.

The whole scenario is frightening - but most people keep on believing everything will be OK - despite all the evidence to the contrary. (I'm not even going into the way our MP's claimed for every penny they could (duck houses, house flipping etc.)

The wealthy have got it sown up, they all demand higher salaries for each other whilst insisting that the actual workers are 'pricing themselves out of the market'.

[NADTATIDA1]

"The low-skilled jobs are taken by anyone who's desperate enough to work for poverty wages - normally immigrants. Otherwise they would have to pay a reasonable wage."

Ain't that the truth.

[Jingthing]

Of course the bottom line about these things is our personal situations. Personally, I feel if I chose to or was forced to repatriate to the US, there would be no decent job waiting for me and possibly no work at all. During different times, I would feel there was hope to start over there and even build more wealth. About the Mexicans? They're leaving!

US Sees Increase In Illegal Mexican Immigrants Going Back To Mexico

Dallas, TX - The slumping economy in the United States isn't just affecting Americans. According to recent reports, the decline in employment opportunities is driving many illegal Mexican immigrants back over the border.

Enrique Hubbard, the Mexican consul general in Dallas told Fox News that the rate of Mexicans returning to their home country is "almost 100 percent more this year than it was the previous two years."

http://banderasnews.com/0808/nw-returntomexico.htm

Edited February 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[NADTATIDA1]

So are the Eastern Europeans!

It is still to late though,the horse has bolted,crap immagration policys...That is why i admire the Thais! at least they look after there own as much as they can and make it difficult for a foriegner to do a job a thai can do..

[flying]

I enjoy living in Siam a few months a year.

I could move there tomorrow as I am set pretty well there (already own condo,home & land) & yes the cost of living would be considerably less.

I am pretty certain one day in the future we may do just that. But will always keep a residence here in the US too.

But I stay in the US .....The reasons are many but the biggest one is I have adult children & one minor.

Yes it is a mess here & the jackals take more every day. I still at this point earn much more here than I ever could there in Siam.

I also feel that if all the good folks jump ship (country) during the bad times then who will be left to fix the problem. I feel we as a generation owe it to the next to leave the place at least as good if not better than we found it.

I am but one person but I am far from alone. This country that likes to say "We The People" may have strayed far...very far from that concept in recent years. But many of us feel we will fix it. We do not expect miracles nor do we expect the congress/senate/presidential critters will do it for us.

Samuel Adams said, “It does not take a majority to prevail…but rather an irate, tireless minority, who keep on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”

Many others of our forefathers said many similar great things.

I am at this point in my life not ready to jump ship for those very reasons. If it were just myself that I was thinking about...perhaps I would....But to be honest I do not think so.

Edited February 23, 2010 by flying

[witold]

I live in USA right now and trust me, the situation is not as dire as you make it out to be.

Yes, unemployment is low in Thailand. Does that really matter when people make 10,000 baht/month? Many jobs and none of them pay more than peanuts doesn't sound any better to me. Regardless, does the Thai unemployment rate have any bearing on you as a foreigner? I was under the impression that 95% of well paying jobs in Thailand are not accessible to foreigners, aside from teaching? It is true that developed countries generally have higher unemployment. They also have assistance. What sort of unemployment assistance is there in Thailand? How about social security? Etc.

Many people in the US made questionable financial decisions in regards to their house equities. Many are walking away from houses because they took hundredths of thousands of real money out of their house based on equity and spent it. They are certainly not suffering after getting hundredths of thousands of real money for essentially nothing since most of these trouble cases never put any money down when they bought their property. In retrospect, I should've done the same and it would've been great! Buy a house with no money down, and then take out equity loans for 250-300K USD, live life based on the 250-300K I got, and then ditch the house back to the bank when this little scheme comes crumbling down! Not a bad deal at all, carrying zero risk and minimal repercussions. People are not suffering here, things are just back to normal where people can't leverage their lifestyles the way they used to.

I don't mean all this to sound so negative. I like Thailand. If they allowed young people to stay and work with no visa hassles, I would even consider moving. There are many reasons why people like Thailand and I have my reasons as well. But to say that the financial and living situations are very dire in the West is incorrect. Thailand is a very hard place to live well and there is a reason why so many people live in the sort of living conditions that are simply not found in the West.

Yes, some people in the West are not doing great. But how many farangs are doing that great in Thailand? By this, I mean, how many actually have decent well-paying jobs that they found in Thailand after moving to Thailand? (Western companies sending them to BKK don't count!) It seems like most non-expat farang are just getting by or living off of their savings/retirement plans? That doesn't sound so dreamy.

[Jingthing]

Hmmm. Do we have teabaggers in our midst?

If what is going on in the US now is normal, and yes people are suffering, I don't like it at all, and I am still happy to not be there for the bad times.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[witold]

The low-skilled jobs are taken by anyone who's desperate enough to work for poverty wages - normally immigrants. Otherwise they would have to pay a reasonable wage.

The middle-sector jobs are being reduced all the time, whilst the top level jobs (directors etc) vote themselves massive pay increases to be paid for by getting rid of the workers.

Low-skilled jobs in the US pay a lot better than low-skilled jobs in the Thailand.  Living in poverty in USA is a lot better than living in poverty in Thailand.   

What sort of great jobs can you get as a farang in Thailand?  I am a newb, but very interested in this, actually.  It seems to me that aside from teaching, there are very few opportunities for farang in Thailand to make a living and most people are just getting by, or living off the money they made in the West, or milking their Western government-run retirement benefits.  

[britmaveric]

Hmmm. Do we have teabaggers in our midst?

If what is going on in the US now is normal, and yes people are suffering, I don't like it at all, and I am still happy to not be there for the bad times.

Economic Darwinism, Jingthing!!!

[Jingthing]

Hmmm. Do we have teabaggers in our midst?

If what is going on in the US now is normal, and yes people are suffering, I don't like it at all, and I am still happy to not be there for the bad times.

Economic Darwinism, Jingthing!!!

Let them eat cake. Ho hum.

[kennkate]

I am back in the Uk. Job situation not a concern of mine ( Retired ) The exchange rate at the moment is not to my advantage.

OK it's Cold at the moment but when in Thailand I find it's too Hot most of the time. So even if the Exchange Rate was 70 and not 50 Baht to the pound I doubt I would be back

Plus I CAN work here if I wanted too ( Plenty of jobs on Min wage without the run around. Min wage but thats £5.65 Per Hr or 300 Baht plus one months holiday Pay. Per year

Free Health care for me and my family. A pension that is not frozen. Might be after the next Election but I doubt it ( they need our votes )

I do appreciate not all are from the UK. So it's not the same for people who have healthcare issues Each to his own.

My MP Claimed for a mortgage he did not have. Now in HOT water later in the dock. ? What would have been the result in Thailand ? We shall see.

They are all the same Out to grab as much as they can. The thing is here in the UK We Do get to Know Who is doing what most of the time. Gordon is a bully and all that

Press Freedom & Freedom of speech. So yes It does Affect how I feel about Thailand.

[Jingthing]

Yes of course things depend on our personal situations, time of life, skill sets and how it matches any demand, and also what countries we come from and our personal prospects and existing support systems (like family, etc.) in our home countries. For example, Americans have issues with access to health care that almost all other westerners do not have.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[ronz28]

Yes, the great recession is a little depressing so that's just one more reason not to take a vacation to Thailand. We are retired so we could go tomorrow but suspect the trip would be mai sanoke when also considering the current politics in Thailand.

[britmaveric]

For example, Americans have issues with access to health care that almost all other westerners do not have.

Most every yank I know loves their health care, so I would think your statement is pretty much a small %.

[witold]

For example, Americans have issues with access to health care that almost all other westerners do not have.

Most every yank I know loves their health care, so I would think your statement is pretty much a small %.

Part of it is that we like to complain.    There are definitely problems and shortcomings and people like to focus on these issues.  There are occasionally horror stories that make the press.  But as a matter of day to day operations, most people have 'free health care' because their employer provides it.  When I was looking at various procedure costs in Thailand, none of them would make sense for me because my deductible was much lower in USA so USA was cheaper for me.   

As always, the grass is always greener somewhere else... All you guys living in Thailand should be telling me how awesome Vietnam is or something!  

[Tinkelbell]

For example, Americans have issues with access to health care that almost all other westerners do not have.

Most every yank I know loves their health care, so I would think your statement is pretty much a small %.

Part of it is that we like to complain. There are definitely problems and shortcomings and people like to focus on these issues. There are occasionally horror stories that make the press. But as a matter of day to day operations, most people have 'free health care' because their employer provides it. When I was looking at various procedure costs in Thailand, none of them would make sense for me because my deductible was much lower in USA so USA was cheaper for me.

As always, the grass is always greener somewhere else... All you guys living in Thailand should be telling me how awesome Vietnam is or something!

Counts me in as a yank who enjoys the health care benifits, actually I'm a Thai, it's the hubby who is sick and has been receiving an excellent care from the hospitals ( doctors, nurses labtechnicians).

A little background.... When hubby took early retirement 5 yrs ago. He is continuing paying to his firm over $700 a year to be covered health care for him & spouse).

About 18 mos ago, he became very sick, had to hospitalize twice for major surgeries, had cataract surgery, have been under care from kidney expert. He told me for a total of bills ( from hospitals, clinics and pharmacy etc costed his insurance compay over $180+k, he only paid out from his own pocket 20%.

As 'witold' said the cost of deductable in the US is much lower, so it's cheaper.

[KeyserSoze01]

For example, Americans have issues with access to health care that almost all other westerners do not have.

Most every yank I know loves their health care, so I would think your statement is pretty much a small %.

Have to agree Brit. I had a bit of a problem a few weeks ago and went to see my family doctor here in the US. Got an appointment within 2 hours of my call. The doc didn't like what she saw and sent me to a specialist, with an appointment later the same day. The specialist checked me out and said, "I need to cut on you". Surgery scheduled 2 days later. Bing, bang, boom, problem resolved. This was not a life-threatening case. I wonder how long I would have waited in a country with true socialized medicine?

[phetaroi]

Jingthing, your original post was an interesting one. Responses to a few of your points:

Yes, there are things I miss about the U.S., although many of those things I miss I rarely had time to do when I was still working. I often wish it had been possible to just live a year each in different places in the U.S. -- for me Colorado, Arizona, central California, Washington State, Montana, Atlanta. But, profession kept me from doing so, so I got to go to those places during short vacations that cost mucho due to hotel expenses in the States. While I truly enjoy the Thai food here, I do miss going to Chilis and the selection of various western foods I could find in the grocery stores in the States.

Yes, there are a handful of friends I truly miss. So far we keep in touch, and I imagine a few will come over for a visit, but I miss them. And, I have found that it's a little more difficult to make new friends here than I expected. I'm not the bar type, and I've found that most expats are not into hanging with other expats...or (snobbish as this may sound) are the type I don't want to hang out with. Without a workplace from which to develop a circle of friends (now retired), that's more of a challenge, too. With Thais it's the language barrier, although I am now taking lessons. Eventually things will fall into place, but right now in my 9th month here, I still feel isolated (except for my partner).

The American economy didn't affect people established in my profession that much -- education. Young teachers bit the dust, and things like supplies and class size are suffering. But we administrators and teachers -- for the most part -- were not seriously affected, other than a trimming or elimination of raises for 1-3 years.

There are two things that I am glad to be away from in the States. One was somewhat situational. I lived 7 miles from the Capitol Building in Washington. My school was adjacent to one of the largest Jewish temples in the suburbs. Lots of big politicos lived in our neighborhood. The headquarters of the CIA was about a mile away. Terrorism was always on our minds. As principal I was trained in how to react to various kinds of terrorist attacks. Imagine being the "boss" and having to decide which employee would be assigned to walk outside the building during a chemical or biologic attack to the access room to the electrical panels (exterior access only) in order to shut down the air exchangers. While I know there is the potential for terrorism here, as well, it isn't a cloud that constantly hangs over us.

The other thing I am glad to be away from is something I have actually become ashamed of -- American politics. I've always "enjoyed" political stuff, but I have become dismayed about what it has become in recent years. Domestic American politics -- far more than international politics -- will be the downfall of the United States. Somehow, watching it all from a distance is less painful. And yes, I'm aware of the state of Thai politics, but as an expat, while I care about it, it's not my country to worry about.

Those are the biggies for me. For everything else I see it as overall being an even exchange. In many, many ways, life in America is "easy". Here it's more exciting, albeit more challenging.

[Tinkelbell]

I enjoy living in Siam a few months a year.

I could move there tomorrow as I am set pretty well there (already own condo,home & land) & yes the cost of living would be considerably less.

I am pretty certain one day in the future we may do just that. But will always keep a residence here in the US too.

But I stay in the US .....The reasons are many but the biggest one is I have adult children & one minor.

Yes it is a mess here & the jackals take more every day. I still at this point earn much more here than I ever could there in Siam.

I also feel that if all the good folks jump ship (country) during the bad times then who will be left to fix the problem. I feel we as a generation owe it to the next to leave the place at least as good if not better than we found it.

I am but one person but I am far from alone. This country that likes to say "We The People" may have strayed far...very far from that concept in recent years. But many of us feel we will fix it. We do not expect miracles nor do we expect the congress/senate/presidential critters will do it for us.

Samuel Adams said, “It does not take a majority to prevail…but rather an irate, tireless minority, who keep on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”

Many others of our forefathers said many similar great things.

I am at this point in my life not ready to jump ship for those very reasons. If it were just myself that I was thinking about...perhaps I would....But to be honest I do not think so.

I share your sentiment....very well said.

USA must be very proud and fortunate to have a son like you. I'm not an American by birth, a mere Thai who has been living in this great country for over 2 decades.

This country has been good to me, I'm proud to say for all my Thai cousins and Thammasat friends who have been settled down in many States, they had held a good job and worked very hard, now they're enjoying the fruit of their labor by leading an easy life in their retirement here in the US.

At present, the economic downturns does not concern me. To start, we never live beyond our means, everything we own we paid cash for it......house, cars, kids education, furnitures, vacation, expensive gadgets .... The words 'loan' and ' lay-away' are alienate to us.

God Bless America !

[PeaceBlondie]

Most of my kids are doing well - good jobs in Texas and Ireland. I'm fine here, with good cheap health care, cheap COL, weather, etc. And the only people upset about my 'lifestyle' are easily avoided.