Brit In Serious Accident.

[jamesthefirst]

"I informed her that I could not pay it and neither could my friend..."

So, you guys just disclaimed all responsibility, and made no attempt whatsoever to settle the debt? Is it any wonder that many Thais dislike farangs?

Pardon me, but it was not my responsibility.

[dudemeister]

I'd guess there is a big difference in the way Americans and Europeans regard a case where life-saving treatment is given free. In an NHS or social health insurance system there is the idea of pooling risk across a population and sharing the cost. In countries with a private insurance system there is usually a high degree of resistance to subsidising the socially disadvantaged (though obviously there is some public provision), and insurance premiums are mostly based on individual actuarial risk. For a Brit like myself, it is a sign of a civilised system to accept some non-payers (even when they clearly should have paid), but for others the immorality of not paying is a bigger issue than the immorality of not treating.

I was talking to a colleague who occupies a senior position in the Thai health care system and has struggled to make the universal coverage health reforms work. He said that Thais are different from Europeans because they do not place the same value on social solidarity (this is not a Marxist term by the way but a word often applied to European systems by policy analysts). According to him this is attributable to Buddhist notions of karma and the idea that people are where they are because of past actions, but I privately wondered whether tambun and traditional obligations might cut the other way. If this story is true, the solidarity principle is not dead in Thailand and I think that is a very good thing.

So by the same token, now the hospital finance administrator (or whoever balances the books), finds himself a couple of thousand baht down, all because of his past actions.

[Sheryl]

I don't think there is any problem with either Thai or American (or anyone else's) sense of social solidarity or understanding of risk pooling.

But what we have here is not IMO a valid case of either one.

Risk pooling = everyone contributes something, according to their capacity, to a general fund or government system which in turn pays out according to people's needs. Whether it is priv ate insurance (as is the case not just in US but also a number of European countries inc Netherlands, France etc) or a National Health System, in both cases this is the essence of it. Difference is just that in insurance schemes payment is specifically earmarked to that purpose whereas in an NHS it comes out of general tax revenue.

In Thailand, Thais as well as foreigners with work permits pay taxes and in turn are covered by the Thai equivalent of an NHS (not free, but very very low cost care). Foreigners not legally working in Thailand do not, and the Thai government accordingly does not cover them under its health system but rather expects them to pay their own way. This is not an unreasonable stance given the country's level of economoc development relative to that of the countries from whioch most foreign tourists/retirees come.

This individual contributed/contributes nothing into the system, is not in any way disabled, had the resources with which to come tio Thailand in the first placxe, failed to make any provision for his health care costs, wound up needing expensive care and couldn't pay for it so a Thai public hospital/the Thai tax payers took the loss.

Many of us myself included feel that he should make some effort to repay -- at least to the extent possible -- rather than be a burden on an already budget strapped health system of a country in which he is not a tax payer. To my way of thinking, that would show far more social solidarity than just taking a free ride from people/a system that can't afford it.

[Sisaketmike]

just one question, what if this was a poor thai national ?

with 6000 baht salary / month

will he have to pay 200.000 baht wich would mean 33 months (or almost 3 years) of his full time salary ?????

so why farang have to cough up ??????????????????????????????????

poor or illegal sick in many european countries go to hospital for free (taxpayer's money)

It wasn't a Thai national; it was a British guy drunk without a helmet, no travel insurance, not enough cash, nothing.

How can you blame them for making 6,000 baht a month? That treatment in most European hospitals can be free has nothing to do with a guy who couldn't afford to pay 200,000 baht, which isn't much for a brain surgery and intensive care. Hope you'll be the next who needs help there. Thanks again for giving us such a good reputation.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[Sisaketmike]

If a Thai (or any foreigner) has an accident in the UK they are treated for free. So stop preaching.

You better stop writing nonsense. That's Thailand and not the UK.

[ralfbkk]

just one question, what if this was a poor thai national ?

with 6000 baht salary / month

will he have to pay 200.000 baht wich would mean 33 months (or almost 3 years) of his full time salary ?????

Not sure, but wouldnt he/she then be on the 30THB Insurance Plan? My nephew, 9 years old, got his appendix removed last Friday. The procedure took 3 hrs at Thammasat University Hospital (he lives in Rangsit). When my wife visited him last Saturday, she said all was for

free.

Honestly, some times I can not follow no more in who pays what and what for and when.

[powderpuff]

Many of us myself included feel that he should make some effort to repay -- at least to the extent possible -- rather than be a burden on an already budget strapped health system of a country in which he is not a tax payer. To my way of thinking, that would show far more social solidarity than just taking a free ride from people/a system that can't afford it.

Agree to a point.

I feel he should pay off the entire debt.

If he doesn't it's because IMHO he is a lowlife scumbag.

Men pay off their debts. Whining crybabies don't.

[sleepyjohn]

Simple fact is there is no free medical care for farangs in Thailand, in either government or private hospitals.

Though I think the guy should pay up in full when he can, and I recently had to put 300,000 in cash on the table to get an operation, I'm not at all sure the above is true.

[true blue]

just one question, what if this was a poor thai national ?

with 6000 baht salary / month

will he have to pay 200.000 baht wich would mean 33 months (or almost 3 years) of his full time salary ?????

Not sure, but wouldnt he/she then be on the 30THB Insurance Plan? My nephew, 9 years old, got his appendix removed last Friday. The procedure took 3 hrs at Thammasat University Hospital (he lives in Rangsit). When my wife visited him last Saturday, she said all was for

free.

Honestly, some times I can not follow no more in who pays what and what for and when.

my wife (thai) had her appendix removed 2 year ago at goverment hospital and she paid only 2000baht,but i first took her to private hospital for dianogise,and they charged me 16000baht.

[BigWheelMan]

I would rather see these drunk drivers wipe themselves out completely rather than injured, because it`s only a matter of time before they seriously injury or kill some innocent person.

Free medical care and no fine, what a joke. He should have been incarcerated then deported.

[hhgz]

You: I informed her that I could not pay it and neither could my friend.

Me: So, you guys just disclaimed all responsibility, and made no attempt whatsoever to settle the debt? Is it any wonder that many Thais dislike farangs?

You: Pardon me, but it was not my responsibility.

Well, OP, your original post included the lesson learned "wear a helmet".

Since you did not learn anything else, such as:

- do not drive and drive

- seek help for alcohol addiction

- buy insurance for any future untoward situation

- be responsible for your actions

- pay back debts

- be financially secure

...my original post is valid.

[jamesthefirst]

You: I informed her that I could not pay it and neither could my friend.

Me: So, you guys just disclaimed all responsibility, and made no attempt whatsoever to settle the debt? Is it any wonder that many Thais dislike farangs?

You: Pardon me, but it was not my responsibility.

Well, OP, your original post included the lesson learned "wear a helmet".

Since you did not learn anything else, such as:

- do not drive and drive

- seek help for alcohol addiction

- buy insurance for any future untoward situation

- be responsible for your actions

- pay back debts

- be financially secure

...my original post is valid.

Pardon me but how the heck do you know I did not learn any of the above?

Actually I always wear a helmet, never drink and drive,have insurance and am financially secure thank you very much.

[Lumumba]

They should not sell cheap booze to foreigners that drink and ride motosai without helmet.

Just ply them with Don Periogn, the booze intoxication dissipates when you hand them the bill.

[ThaiPauly]

Which hospital James?

[metisdead]

- do not drive and drive

Uh,,, <deleted>, over?