Thailand Refuses Visa To Dalai Lama's Sister

[animatic]

Tibet is a Chinese part already for centuries, they had selfcontrol but still they where China.

Do you want to deny that many Tibetans don't like the Dalai Lama and that they don't want back to the time when there was selfcontrol?

Do you know what is ridiculous? Western people who think it is normal when USA is bombing and taking over little countries like Serbia and Iraq, and at the same time they are crying about Tibet what's already China for centuries.

Or they forgot about the Indians in USA or all those other people with a dark skin terrorized by western colonizers...

and then they have a big mouth abouth China....RIDICULOUS

Slavery isn't Buddhism.

Another reply from the re-written history playbook.

Sorry your second argument makes no sense, less than the first.

Oh by the way Serbia is freely controlling itself and has been doing 10 + years.

Iraq was a debacle and I dearly wish it never happened, I never voted Bush,

but this is nothing to do with Tibet and China,

apples and oranges.

So tell me what kind of reparations have the Chinese done to the Tibetians

to make up with over running their country by force?

Besides that we are also talking recent history, within lifetimes, and not 120-250 years past.

Man in many ways has grown up since then, but seems the Chinese leadership is doing it a bit slower.

Isolation from alternate thoughts and critiques often has that effect.

Sorry, you have not won point two either... gonna go for three

Edited March 4, 2010 by animatic

[raminisme]

"we don't want to get involved in international politics," said Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, secretary to Thailand's foreign minister."

Can someone please explain what the Thai Foreign minister office does if it does not get involved in International Politics. I know in other countries they are very involved as that is what they are paid to do.

I can just see the Secretary entering the office and saying "Excuse me minister but the Thai Ambassador to China has just been arrested" Reply "Why are you telling me we don't get involved in politics go tell the minister for Roads that's his area" Oh and while your there tell him I haven't received my cut this month for the Tuk tuk scam we are running on the Foreigners.

thats funny....

[benizakura]

Tibet is a Chinese part already for centuries, they had selfcontrol but still they where China.

Do you want to deny that many Tibetans don't like the Dalai Lama and that they don't want back to the time when there was selfcontrol?

Do you know what is ridiculous? Western people who think it is normal when USA is bombing and taking over little countries like Serbia and Iraq, and at the same time they are crying about Tibet what's already China for centuries.

Or they forgot about the Indians in USA or all those other people with a dark skin terrorized by western colonizers...

and then they have a big mouth abouth China....RIDICULOUS

Slavery isn't Buddhism.

Another reply from the re-written history playbook.

Sorry your second argument makes no sense, less than the first.

Oh by the way Serbia is freely controlling itself and has been doing 10 + years.

Iraq was a debacle and I dearly wish it never happened, I never voted Bush,

but this is nothing to do with Tibet and China,

apples and oranges.

So tell me what kind of reparations have the Chinese done to the Tibetians

to make up with over running their country by force?

Besides that we are also talking recent history, within lifetimes, and not 120-250 years past.

Man in many ways has grown up since then, but seems the Chinese leadership is doing it a bit slower.

Isolation from alternate thoughts and critiques often has that effect.

Sorry, you have not won point two either... gonna go for three

The Serbian Kosovo province is still occupied by the USA.

China didn't overrun Tibet, Tibet was already Chinese territory for centuries.

Apples and oranges? Yes you are right, China was sending it's army to Chinese territory and USA and partners are sending their armies to other countries far away... yes it is not good to compare those 2 cases.

Yes offcourse everything I say make no sense, maybe you don't like to hear that many Tibetans don't like the Dalai Lama?

China is doing it slower, China is bad, China don't care about human rights blabla, Yes I see how much the western world is growing up with their global wars, they much care about human rights when they are bombing cities.

Yes we are talking about recent history... Tibet is China and it's was already China in the past just like Texas is know USA and already was back in time.

It is offcourse different for persons how they think about subjects, some will say Tibet must be a country, Texas must be a country or must be Mexico and so I can put more examples... but the fact is both are a part of a country in this recent history.

Well you are not the 1 who can tell if someone won a point or not, you have your own visions just like I have.

Edited March 4, 2010 by benizakura

[ferd54]

The Serbian Kosovo province is still occupied by the USA.

China didn't overrun Tibet, Tibet was already Chinese territory for centuries.

Apples and oranges? Yes you are right, China was sending it's army to Chinese territory and USA and partners are sending their armies to other countries far away... yes it is not good to compare those 2 cases.

Yes offcourse everything I say make no sense, maybe you don't like to hear that many Tibetans don't like the Dalai Lama?

China is doing it slower, China is bad, China don't care about human rights blabla, Yes I see how much the western world is growing up with their global wars, they much care about human rights when they are bombing cities.

Yes we are talking about recent history... Tibet is China and it's was already China in the past just like Texas is know USA and already was back in time.

It is offcourse different for persons how they think about subjects, some will say Tibet must be a country, Texas must be a country or must be Mexico and so I can put more examples... but the fact is both are a part of a country in this recent history.

Well you are not the 1 who can tell if someone won a point or not, you have your own visions just like I have.

Bla bla is right. Chinese guys like benizakura are all over the internet these days whenever the topic crops up. They will spew a lot of nonsensical unrelated stuff, say all white men are this and that, then deny they are racists. One then replied to me that only white people can be racists, that the definition basically never applies to Asians. The truth is Han Chinese don't realize how racist they really are.

Actually, its pointless to engage them over the internet. They will just continue to spew accusations. They can't debate reasonably.

Edited March 4, 2010 by ferd54

[Ricardo]

The Serbian Kosovo province is still occupied by the USA.

Wrong !

Might I respectfully suggest, you check Wikipedia on this, then reconsider whether you might not be a victim of propaganda ?

[Ricardo]

It is offcourse different for persons how they think about subjects, some will say Tibet must be a country, Texas must be a country or must be Mexico and so I can put more examples... but the fact is both are a part of a country in this recent history.

And again, Wikipedia says that Mexico has been independent, since 1821. Unless you know something that they don't ?

[ourmanflint]

The Serbian Kosovo province is still occupied by the USA.

China didn't overrun Tibet, Tibet was already Chinese territory for centuries.

Apples and oranges? Yes you are right, China was sending it's army to Chinese territory and USA and partners are sending their armies to other countries far away... yes it is not good to compare those 2 cases.

Yes offcourse everything I say make no sense, maybe you don't like to hear that many Tibetans don't like the Dalai Lama?

China is doing it slower, China is bad, China don't care about human rights blabla, Yes I see how much the western world is growing up with their global wars, they much care about human rights when they are bombing cities.

Yes we are talking about recent history... Tibet is China and it's was already China in the past just like Texas is know USA and already was back in time.

It is offcourse different for persons how they think about subjects, some will say Tibet must be a country, Texas must be a country or must be Mexico and so I can put more examples... but the fact is both are a part of a country in this recent history.

Well you are not the 1 who can tell if someone won a point or not, you have your own visions just like I have.

If Tibet was already Chinese for centuries why was it called Tibet and not China? Maybe it was because even back then the lovely chinese farmers would don their military shirts and would enter Tibet en masse and kill whoever did not subordinate themselves to the current emperor. The only thing you can really say is that China has for a long time been the rulers of Tibetan peoples and land, Tibetan peoples though seem to think that Tibet is theirs for some reason the Chinese cannot quite fathom.

The Tibetan Plateau extends well into what is now China and strangely the folks there all speak Tibetan but are happily coerced to learn Mandarin by their friendly chinese farmer neighbours and CP members alike. It is strange that although both Mongolia and Tibet were annexed by the Qin emperors, and both tried to relieve themselves of their chinese overlords at the end of the Qing dynasty, they are not spoken of in the same breath, as Mongolia is now fully independent of China. If only someone like Russia would have stepped in to help Tibet in reclaiming it's own sovereignty and stop the friendly Chinese government from invading, we wouldn't be having to try and educate you now. But instead you have drank from the cup of the superbly flawed Chinese education system, were even Confucius himself was seen as a dangerous radical and whose teachings were with held for fear of opening the minds of the downtrodden.

I am sure you are right though, that there are scores if not hundreds of Tibetans who will swear they hate the Dalai Lama when interviewed about their loyalties by the friendly Chinese farmers and the friendly Chinese military.

[moetownblues]

Is this a thread about Tabet/China or the refusal of a visa by Thailand for the Dalai Lama's sister. Seems to me it is all about how Tibet was over run by communist China and if it is then I agree China are the bad party here.

[petebkk]

its obviously who is ruling THAIland really, its the Chinese-Thais and China behind them

Yes, I see. And who is scamming Thailand. Let's see, that's Chinese-Thai guy named Taksin.

He pulled this off, colluding with Chinese Thai senior civil servants and high-priced lawyers as well as Chinese Singaporean who run Temasek.

How his plot was uncovered? Chinese Thai journalist by the name of Sondhi L.

How's he being prosecuted? By Chinese-Thai judges, public auditors and public prosecutors.

Who's writing this comment? A middle-age Chinese-Thai guy.

So, what's your theory? China is behind all this? An episode for the original Star Trek?

[Scott]

Please stay on-topic.

Posts have been deleted and warnings have been issued.

[Oberkommando]

For once I would love to see a working class PM that could truly represent most voters in Thailand but I guess its not going to happen any time soon while the Elite and money both rule everything

Chuan Leekpai was a working class boy. Mother was a market vendor; father a school teacher who never accumulated savings.

Thaksin at one point poured scorn on Chuan because he didn't own a house (I think his wife might have though).

Don't forget Chuan's brother, who allegedly embezzled billions using his position in a Thai bank then fled to Taiwan until the statute of limitations expired on his crime.

[moetownblues]

Please stay on-topic.

Posts have been deleted and warnings have been issued.

Well done scott it was getting out of hand and very political and nothing to do with Thailand.

[IvanDobsky]

China has taken over Tibet and sixty years later, the indigenous Tibetan people are now in a minority. Medieval nation wiped out by more advanced nation. Sad but typical of humanity throughout history. Kind of like Australia, USA, Canada, Mexico...just depends how far you want to go back.

With all the financial muscle, the largest military and one sixth of humanity under their control, quite why they are so worried by a single monk is beyond me. If they think their empire will collapse because of him or his sister, they obviously have very little else to worry about.

I have a lot of respect for the monk, but sorry to say money and power talk louder in this world than peace and understanding.

[mca]

Seem to recall that Chuan nominated that all round good old boy Thanom Kittikachorn to fill a rather esteemed position although I stand to be corrected . Doesn't really instill confidence for the future if he's the example Thailand can come up with for a PM.

[moetownblues]

China has taken over Tibet and sixty years later, the indigenous Tibetan people are now in a minority. Medieval nation wiped out by more advanced nation. Sad but typical of humanity throughout history. Kind of like Australia, USA, Canada, Mexico...just depends how far you want to go back.

With all the financial muscle, the largest military and one sixth of humanity under their control, quite why they are so worried by a single monk is beyond me. If they think their empire will collapse because of him or his sister, they obviously have very little else to worry about.

I have a lot of respect for the monk, but sorry to say money and power talk louder in this world than peace and understanding.

I agree I do not see what threat he is. His sister has no pull in Tibetan society she is a pure mortal as where the Dalai Lama will be reincarnated for ever. I do not understand Thailand for refusing a visa but I guess it is Chineses politics.

When ever his name comes up any where in the world the chinese government try to put pressure on foriegn governments. The Chinese have now appointed thier own Dalai Lama in Tibet who is Chinese. I think Thailand should take a stand and not let other nations say who can and cannot come into the country. If my niegbour next door tried to tell me that I could not have a friend who was say african come into MY home because he did not like africans I would tell him to mind his own business and %$%% jump. Thailand should do the same/.

[brahmburgers]

Tibet is a Chinese part already for centuries, they had selfcontrol but still they where China.

Tibet was militarily bullied and forced to be a province of China - around 55 years ago. That's less than 'centuries.' Before that, Tibet was Tibet, and China was a conglomeration of ever-warring factions - that went on for centuries. If history is any precedent, China will again break up in to a dozen fiefdoms. I think it will be a good thing overall, as it will allow the Uighurs, Tibetans, and Taiwanese to go on with their lives without being constantly bullied and threatened.

Slavery isn't Buddhism.

Are you going to educate us about Buddhism now? ....and use China as an example of what to aspire to?! That should be rich.

The only thing you can really say is that China has for a long time been the rulers of Tibetan peoples and land,....

If 55 years is a long time, then I can agree with you. Prior to the early 1950's Tibet was an independent kingdom. China had never ruled Tibet before the mid 20th century. Yes, it may have had some influence there, just like neighboring countries everywhere influence nearby countries. It's more likely Tibet influenced China more than the other way around. Look at any Chinese Buddhist temple and you'll likely see Tibetan style artwork. Certainly the Thankas are that way, as is the chanting styles.

Though, even as a student of Tibet, I had never heard much about the Dalai Lama's sister, it's ridiculous that Thailand would deny her and her husband a visa. Who's next, anyone with any connection to the Dalai Lama? I have several close Tibetan friends, and I can picture them taking the snub in jovial stride as they have a great sense of humor - something else the Han Chinese could learn from Tibetans, if they put their whiskey bottles and MSG-laden foods down long enough to listen.

Edited March 4, 2010 by brahmburgers

[mackayae]

Maybe Jetsun Pema should ask her brother, The Dalai Lama, to excommunicate the Thai FM.

[moetownblues]

Tibet is a Chinese part already for centuries, they had selfcontrol but still they where China.

Tibet was militarily bullied and forced to be a province of China - around 55 years ago. That's less than 'centuries.' Before that, Tibet was Tibet, and China was a conglomeration of ever-warring factions - that went on for centuries. If history is any precedent, China will again break up in to a dozen fiefdoms. I think it will be a good thing overall, as it will allow the Uighurs, Tibetans, and Taiwanese to go on with their lives without being constantly bullied and threatened.

Slavery isn't Buddhism.

Are you going to educate us about Buddhism now? ....and use China as an example of what to aspire to?! That should be rich.

The only thing you can really say is that China has for a long time been the rulers of Tibetan peoples and land,....

If 55 years is a long time, then I can agree with you. Prior to the early 1950's Tibet was an independent kingdom. China had never ruled Tibet before the mid 20th century. Yes, it may have had some influence there, just like neighboring countries everywhere influence nearby countries. It's more likely Tibet influenced China more than the other way around. Look at any Chinese Buddhist temple and you'll likely see Tibetan style artwork. Certainly the Thankas are that way, as is the chanting styles.

Though, even as a student of Tibet, I had never heard much about the Dalai Lama's sister, it's ridiculous that Thailand would deny her and her husband a visa. Who's next, anyone with any connection to the Dalai Lama? I have several close Tibetan friends, and I can picture them taking the snub in jovial stride as they have a great sense of humor - something else the Han Chinese could learn from Tibetans, if they put their whiskey bottles and MSG-laden foods down long enough to listen.

Yes I agree can someone fill us in on her life, her employment and what her political views are? My wife is thai and Buddist but she also thinks that the Dalai Lama is a good honest peace loving man

Edited March 4, 2010 by moetownblues

[IvanDobsky]

With all the financial muscle, the largest military and one sixth of humanity under their control, quite why they are so worried by a single monk is beyond me. If they think their empire will collapse because of him or his sister, they obviously have very little else to worry about.

I agree I do not see what threat he is. His sister has no pull in Tibetan society she is a pure mortal as where the Dalai Lama will be reincarnated for ever. I do not understand Thailand for refusing a visa but I guess it is Chineses politics.

When ever his name comes up any where in the world the chinese government try to put pressure on foriegn governments. The Chinese have now appointed thier own Dalai Lama in Tibet who is Chinese. I think Thailand should take a stand and not let other nations say who can and cannot come into the country. If my niegbour next door tried to tell me that I could not have a friend who was say african come into MY home because he did not like africans I would tell him to mind his own business and %$%% jump. Thailand should do the same/.

Agreed, they should but they won't.

They, like much of the world, are too worried about trade agreements being threatened. Unfortunately, money talks louder than any principle.

[moetownblues]

Maybe Jetsun Pema should ask her brother, The Dalai Lama, to excommunicate the Thai FM.

Why? Is he Catholic??

Edited March 4, 2010 by moetownblues

[ratcatcher]

The Thai government has kow-towed to the Chinese Communist government in capitalist loving China over the issuance of a visa for a 70 year old lady.

The same way they would deny a visa to 64 year old Aung San Suu Kyi if she was lucky enough to be released and wish to visit Bangkok. They wouldn't want to risk offending the nasty Burmese generals.

Faceless, gutless, spineless, chicken hearted, lily livered. There we are. Take your pick. Politicians are mostly cut from the same cloth.

[cdnvic]

References to The Monarchy have been deleted.

[brahmburgers]

Reminds me of several years ago, when Thailand hosted the Asian Games (sports).

A Chinese official noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the many other Asian flags. He made a terse mention to a guard on duty. The flag came down immediately and 'so sorry's' were dutifully meted out to all Chinese in the vicinity.

In one fell swoop, Thailand offended millions of Taiwanese, and perverted the spirit of an international sporting event it was hosting.

Spineless is too kind a word. My dad would have used the word 'pantywaist.'

[Tokay]

Dalai Lama's sister = no way

African & Russian prostitues = no problem

I can see their logic.

[Tokay]

Dalai Lama's sister = no way

African & Russian prostitues = no problem

I can see their logic.

[ferd54]

Reminds me of several years ago, when Thailand hosted the Asian Games (sports).

A Chinese official noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the many other Asian flags. He made a terse mention to a guard on duty. The flag came down immediately and 'so sorry's' were dutifully meted out to all Chinese in the vicinity.

In one fell swoop, Thailand offended millions of Taiwanese, and perverted the spirit of an international sporting event it was hosting.

Spineless is too kind a word. My dad would have used the word 'pantywaist.'

Same thing happened when I was at the World Ski Championships in Vail, Colo. The Chinese caused a stink, threatened to withdraw, and finally Taiwan was referred to as "Chinese Taipei."

It's not only Thailand. The PRC has been whining and hurling accusations about Tibet and Taiwan for half a century.

[brahmburgers]

If China had a nick name, it would be Hypocritical.

On the world stage, it continually talks about the importance of 'non-interference' in other countries' affairs. Most notably, it condones Iran's nuclear build-up. Has China offered to help out in Afghanistan against the Taliban and Al Qaeda? No, it would rather stand aside and let the Americans and Brits do the dirty work.

China didn't give a hoot for East Timor when it was being bullied by the Indonesians to not become independent. China didn't want anything to do with former Yugoslavia when its Muslims were being systematically wiped out by its Serbian majority. Trouble in Africa? Blood diamonds? Rwandan massacres? Genocide in Sudan and Mali, War lords in Somolia? China won't lift a finger to assist the oppressed in those countries, citing 'non-interference.' Plus, China never met a Burmese junta leader it didn't love.

In stark contrast, China in mega-interfering in Tibet, and in Taiwan. It also claims the Spratly Islands, though it is located twice as far as the five other countries which lay claim to them. The difference is, China is the only one of those six countries which has cemented high powered guns on the islands.

[TAWP]

When it comes to this inland China issue, I am not in any hurry to support a part of their region to become more autonomous and yet again a religious and oppressive regime of perverted Buddhism...

[ferd54]

When it comes to this inland China issue, I am not in any hurry to support a part of their region to become more autonomous and yet again a religious and oppressive regime of perverted Buddhism...

I notice your tagline about freedom at the bottom of your posts. That's doesn't apply to Tibetians to continue to live as they did for thousands of years if that's what they want? They aren't forcing their so-called "feudalism" on anyone else.

Perhaps you should stop advertising freedom until you're ready to support it for others too.

[animatic]

I doubt Tibets theology is a much more a incorrectly observed form than our pervasive local version,

which has some serious detractors for being 'badly off message',

such as Chamlongs take on the Sangha.

The bottom line is China took control of Tibet against the Tibetian peoples will in the 50's,

and have not won the population over in the last 60 years,

so it is still considered an invading force from outside.

Regardless of how paranoid the Chinese leaders are about this,

not allowing her to go to this cultural exchange doesn't help them win hearts and minds,

nor really maintain control with less force.

Their MAIN worry is:

lose Tibet peacefully, and it's mineral deposits which they need badly,

and the Uihgers and other regional groups will see light at the end of their anti-HAN tunnels

and if several areas rise up then China as a nation is toast and we see the Soviet Union

implosion round II. But twice as large and twice as violent.

Edited March 6, 2010 by animatic