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March 12: 'Most Worrying Day' For Thailand


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"The Army is for the benefit of the country. We take no [political] colours or sides," Anupong was quoted as saying, referring to the rival red shirts and yellow shirts.

Tell that to the PPP, who were consistently refused help from the military in controlling the PAD when they went their rampage through Bangkok... yet every time the UDD has held a protest in Bangkok the ISA has been enforced and you have military coming out of your ears...

I have been told, that up until recently that the military were not going to step in to stop any UDD problems unless they had legal protection ... ie: they had cabinet approval for each step. This was only agreed with the government a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe the PPP didn't want to give them that protection, so the army weren't prepared to step in against the PAD. If they did and people were injured, then the PPP would simply say it was the army's fault.

Am I right in believing that a State of Emergency was declared when the PAD occupied Suvarnabhumi Airport and that the Army (Anupong) although he was fully and legally covered and also had a duty to obey the Prime Minister's request under the Army's 'Aid to The Civil Power' obligations refused to do anything?

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"The Army is for the benefit of the country. We take no [political] colours or sides," Anupong was quoted as saying, referring to the rival red shirts and yellow shirts.

Tell that to the PPP, who were consistently refused help from the military in controlling the PAD when they went their rampage through Bangkok... yet every time the UDD has held a protest in Bangkok the ISA has been enforced and you have military coming out of your ears...

I have been told, that up until recently that the military were not going to step in to stop any UDD problems unless they had legal protection ... ie: they had cabinet approval for each step. This was only agreed with the government a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe the PPP didn't want to give them that protection, so the army weren't prepared to step in against the PAD. If they did and people were injured, then the PPP would simply say it was the army's fault.

Am I right in believing that a State of Emergency was declared when the PAD occupied Suvarnabhumi Airport and that the Army (Anupong) although he was fully and legally covered and also had a duty to obey the Prime Minister's request under the Army's 'Aid to The Civil Power' obligations refused to do anything?

He also refused to do anything until Abhisit personally took responsibiltiy for anythign that happened when the rioting was brought under control. Meaning any deaths which thankfully didnt occur would have been the responsibility of the PM and bnot blamed on troops. Neither Samak nor Somchai were willing to do this and named the army commnader on one occasion and a police chief on another as the person responsible. Needless to say neither PM naming themselves a sreponsible coupled with disappearing when the yellows were at their most brazen was not really going to encourage the appointed person to defend a governemnt in hiding and then take the blame for any casualties. Realpolitik.

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The red goal is not to " overthrow the current government ", but to immediately have a free and honest election -- unlike the last election which was extremely tainted by the actions of the Junta... and then adjusted by the courts to suit their needs.

Nonsense. Both UDD and PT have both expressed their desire to overthrow the government.

“Our aim is to bring down the administration,” said Sean Boonpracong, a spokesman for the Redhshirt United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD).

Red Shirts Ready For Million Man March

"The rally's purpose is to bring down the coalition government, while the UDD group expects at least one million UDD supporters tojoin the rally, said Jatuporn.

The UDD group aims to overthrow the Democrat-led coalition government by the end of 2009, the UDD core leader said. "

Thailand's UDD To Hold Anti-Government Rally

Can you name one Democracy where the aim of the opposition is not to bring down the Government?

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The red goal is not to " overthrow the current government ", but to immediately have a free and honest election -- unlike the last election which was extremely tainted by the actions of the Junta... and then adjusted by the courts to suit their needs.

Nonsense. Both UDD and PT have both expressed their desire to overthrow the government.

“Our aim is to bring down the administration,” said Sean Boonpracong, a spokesman for the Redhshirt United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD).

Red Shirts Ready For Million Man March

"The rally's purpose is to bring down the coalition government, while the UDD group expects at least one million UDD supporters tojoin the rally, said Jatuporn.

The UDD group aims to overthrow the Democrat-led coalition government by the end of 2009, the UDD core leader said. "

Thailand's UDD To Hold Anti-Government Rally

Can you name one Democracy where the aim of the opposition is not to bring down the Government?

This is about the red shirts wanting to overthrow the current Thai government, not a discussion about democracy elsewhere, in case you hadn't noticed.

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Can you name one Democracy where the aim of the opposition is not to bring down the Government?

Is there not a difference, between violent protests (seizing vehicles ?) on-the-streets, and an opposition-party working through Parliament, to form a new coalition or increase their vote at the next election ?

Perhaps the UDD might follow PAD's example, and form a new party to campaign at the next election, but of course that would take a couple of years, which would not suit Thaksin waiting anxiously in Dubai, for news that it's OK to return home again. :)

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"The Army is for the benefit of the country. We take no [political] colours or sides," Anupong was quoted as saying, referring to the rival red shirts and yellow shirts.

Tell that to the PPP, who were consistently refused help from the military in controlling the PAD when they went their rampage through Bangkok... yet every time the UDD has held a protest in Bangkok the ISA has been enforced and you have military coming out of your ears...

I have been told, that up until recently that the military were not going to step in to stop any UDD problems unless they had legal protection ... ie: they had cabinet approval for each step. This was only agreed with the government a couple of weeks ago.

Maybe the PPP didn't want to give them that protection, so the army weren't prepared to step in against the PAD. If they did and people were injured, then the PPP would simply say it was the army's fault.

Am I right in believing that a State of Emergency was declared when the PAD occupied Suvarnabhumi Airport and that the Army (Anupong) although he was fully and legally covered and also had a duty to obey the Prime Minister's request under the Army's 'Aid to The Civil Power' obligations refused to do anything?

He also refused to do anything until Abhisit personally took responsibiltiy for anythign that happened when the rioting was brought under control. Meaning any deaths which thankfully didnt occur would have been the responsibility of the PM and bnot blamed on troops. Neither Samak nor Somchai were willing to do this and named the army commnader on one occasion and a police chief on another as the person responsible. Needless to say neither PM naming themselves a sreponsible coupled with disappearing when the yellows were at their most brazen was not really going to encourage the appointed person to defend a governemnt in hiding and then take the blame for any casualties. Realpolitik.

I haven't read the full edition of the Thai Constitution and I doubt if you have but I'm pretty sure that nowhere does it say that a Prime Minister, after having called in The Army as an 'Aid to Civil Power', would be responsible for the actions of every individual soldier on the streets. The same applies to the General Officer Commanding.

If once the Riot Act or the Thai equivalant had been read and the crowd/mob told to disperce and refused to do so the Army would have had full legal authority to use appropiate force to clear the streets. As the soldiers would have been given training and clear instructions on what measure of force to use any soldier(s) who over-stepped the mark would have been subject to criminal proceedings after an initial enquiry.

Also any injured person would have been within his rights to sue the military or Goverment in a court of law.

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UPDATE

Thailand's Thaksin urges supporters to join anti-gov rally

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra on Saturday used his Twitter page to call on his supporters to join a mass anti-government rally, after a court seized most of his fortune.

Thaksin's loyal "Red Shirts", so-called for the clothes they wear, will gather in Bangkok on March 14 to demand the return of the populist leader, who was ousted in a military coup in 2006, and that the government quit.

"I would like to urge those who love democracy, justice, equality, and those who think that I have been bullied without mercy and humanity, to join the rally," wrote Thaksin on Saturday.

Thailand's Supreme Court last month ordered the state seizure of most of Thaksin's 2.3-billion-dollar shares wealth that it ruled he accumulated illegally by abusing his power to benefit his telecoms firm.

He is currently living in Dubai to escape a two-year jail term from another corruption case. Several other graft charges are outstanding against him.

The Red Shirts say they expect up to 600,000 people to attend this month's rallies, with people starting to gather from around the country on March 12 before the main demonstration two days later.

Thai premier Abhisit Vejjajiva has said his trip to Australia would go ahead as planned on March 13-17 despite the rallies, but a slew of extra security measures are in place and he has said tougher laws may be invoked.

Thailand's pro- and anti-Thaksin camps have both conducted destabilising street campaigns since the twice-elected tycoon was ousted, with some of the demonstrations turning violent.

Red Shirt riots in April derailed a major Asian summit and left two people dead.

Thailand's social rifts sharply divide its Thaksin-loving poorer communities, largely in the north and northeast rural regions, from those in the Bangkok-based elite amongst the military, palace and bureaucracy.

afplogo.jpg

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-06

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

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UPDATE

Thailand's Thaksin urges supporters to join anti-gov rally

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra on Saturday used his Twitter page to call on his supporters to join a mass anti-government rally, after a court seized most of his fortune.

Thaksin's loyal "Red Shirts", so-called for the clothes they wear, will gather in Bangkok on March 14 to demand the return of the populist leader, who was ousted in a military coup in 2006, and that the government quit.

"I would like to urge those who love democracy, justice, equality, and those who think that I have been bullied without mercy and humanity, to join the rally," wrote Thaksin on Saturday.

Thailand's Supreme Court last month ordered the state seizure of most of Thaksin's 2.3-billion-dollar shares wealth that it ruled he accumulated illegally by abusing his power to benefit his telecoms firm.

He is currently living in Dubai to escape a two-year jail term from another corruption case. Several other graft charges are outstanding against him.

The Red Shirts say they expect up to 600,000 people to attend this month's rallies, with people starting to gather from around the country on March 12 before the main demonstration two days later.

Thai premier Abhisit Vejjajiva has said his trip to Australia would go ahead as planned on March 13-17 despite the rallies, but a slew of extra security measures are in place and he has said tougher laws may be invoked.

Thailand's pro- and anti-Thaksin camps have both conducted destabilising street campaigns since the twice-elected tycoon was ousted, with some of the demonstrations turning violent.

Red Shirt riots in April derailed a major Asian summit and left two people dead.

Thailand's social rifts sharply divide its Thaksin-loving poorer communities, largely in the north and northeast rural regions, from those in the Bangkok-based elite amongst the military, palace and bureaucracy.

afplogo.jpg

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-06

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Why do so many foreigners in Thailand have so much to say about so called political developments when they have no say in the matter whatsoever, other than on thaivisaforum?

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"I would like to urge those who love democracy, justice, equality, and those who think that I have been bullied without mercy and humanity, to join the rally," wrote Thaksin on Saturday.
Poor Thaksin. Bullied without mercy. What did he order happen during the mass extra judicial murders during his drug campaign. Talk about no mercy. Red shirts picked the wrong leader.

BTW, supposing the red mob does not succeed in overthrowing the government in mid March. Then what? When do they finally give it up? Or does that mean they will close the entire country down through Black Songkran the Repeat in April?

Edited by Jingthing
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At the height of their demonstrations, the PAD were slammed for their tactics of taking over the airport in order to overthrow the government then in power. Now, I see several on TV supporting the the Red Shirts who have openly threatened to "shut down Bangkok" to overthrow the government now in power.

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I'll remind all those of you who continue to rant about Thaksin's culpability in the extra-judicial killings that

a) The policy of "getting rid of druggies" had bipartisan parliamentary support and was applauded by the overwhelming majority of Thai citizens, even after allegations of extra-judicial killings came out

:) The actual officers responsible for the atrocities remain in the Thai military and have since been promoted. This goes for most of the men behind all of the biggest atrocities committed in Thai history. As a reference, Suchinda (after being ejected because of his role in the 1992 massacre) was made director of True Corp, which is a subsidiary of Charoen Pokhpand.

No points for guessing who the Chief Advisor to the company was at the time! (Hint: His name starts with a P.)

EDIT: Currently doing a little bit of research into the current heads of Thailand's top corporations, regulatory authorities and institutions... you would be amazed at how many of them were involved in some of the bloodiest periods in Thai history. But no investigations there!

Edited by johncitizen
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He also refused to do anything until Abhisit personally took responsibiltiy for anythign that happened when the rioting was brought under control. Meaning any deaths which thankfully didnt occur would have been the responsibility of the PM and bnot blamed on troops. Neither Samak nor Somchai were willing to do this and named the army commnader on one occasion and a police chief on another as the person responsible. Needless to say neither PM naming themselves a sreponsible coupled with disappearing when the yellows were at their most brazen was not really going to encourage the appointed person to defend a governemnt in hiding and then take the blame for any casualties. Realpolitik.

I haven't read the full edition of the Thai Constitution and I doubt if you have but I'm pretty sure that nowhere does it say that a Prime Minister, after having called in The Army as an 'Aid to Civil Power', would be responsible for the actions of every individual soldier on the streets. The same applies to the General Officer Commanding.

If once the Riot Act or the Thai equivalant had been read and the crowd/mob told to disperce and refused to do so the Army would have had full legal authority to use appropiate force to clear the streets. As the soldiers would have been given training and clear instructions on what measure of force to use any soldier(s) who over-stepped the mark would have been subject to criminal proceedings after an initial enquiry.

Also any injured person would have been within his rights to sue the military or Goverment in a court of law.

I would never assume that Hammered has not read the Thai Constitution.

As it relates to the military, things are a bit different here. Really, with the military it is hard to understand a lot of things. When it comes to civil actions, sometimes they jump in and do what the want (coups for example), and other times the PM seems to be heading things. Even when it comes to military actions, it is confusing. For example, with all the things that Gen. Khattiya has said and done, how can you explain why he hasn't been court martialed? You can't. Neither can I, but I did ask a senior military official. His answer was that things are a bit different here.

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Pardon me? "widely condemned" by by whom?

It is probably important to consider the damage done to the checks and balances that were damaged by Thaksin to have a real conversation on this. The not too subtle digs at the judiciary don't seem to take into account the 2001 assets concealment decision etc.

The amazing thing is yet again we have those mysterious "elites" showing up in a conversation about laws that are pretty much black and white..................

Subtle enough?

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"I would like to urge those who love democracy, justice, equality, and those who think that I have been bullied without mercy and humanity, to join the rally," wrote Thaksin on Saturday.
Poor Thaksin. Bullied without mercy. What did he order happen during the mass extra judicial murders during his drug campaign. Talk about no mercy. Red shirts picked the wrong leader.

BTW, supposing the red mob does not succeed in overthrowing the government in mid March. Then what? When do they finally give it up? Or does that mean they will close the entire country down through Black Songkran the Repeat in April?

Bullied without mercy... what amazing hyperbole.

This guy was given freedom to roam in country and freedom to depart just for a sports event,

and decided to flee rather than serve a cakewalk term in a jail he could have bribed into total opulence,

and his jailers would have been fighting to be in charge of him...

Bullied my fuzzy butt, this guy is utterly full of shit. And hubris.

He bullied the country till he was removed by force after he couldn't even follow the rules

of electoral succession without cheating egregiously. He is a proven serial cheat.

And this cry if victim hood is more cheating, but he is cheating the people of Issan with it.

What more can you say about this kuhn T.

Edited by animatic
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hey guys, big red shirt protest this evening on Pahonyothin Road, at 11:00 p.m. Was leaving Central Lad Prao and had to uturn because road was blocked up to Ratchadapisak. Lots and lots of cops and protesters out. Of course, nothing on the news or anywhere else.

I'm thinking George should set up a protest alert thread we can add to when something like this happens. Was scary, lots of yelling and loudspeakers,,,,,very chaotic too.

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Tom thanks for the report.

Reading the BP report

which will be unlinked by mods shortly I assume,

it seems they did NOT expect K Tong to be grabbed in the van at CSD compound,

but while Sae Daeng was just negotiating surrender terms,

when they saw / found him in the van outside and brought him in.

So word went out via the Taxi Radio network to cause a 100 car rukus outside

in hopes of getting him released rather than held on poorer terms.

Such an organized military like response too. Radio communications network

and transport and troupes all at Sae Daengs beck and call.

So this seems a precursor of next weeks fun and games, sturm und drang.

This will NOT be peaceful it is not in their interests for it to be so.

They need blood in the streets to bring down the government,

and if pushing women and monks in front of the cameras

and enraging the troupes to move through them to get at really violent types,

makes it LOOK like an attack on women and monks, I don't doubt they will try this.

I just pray the commanders at street level keep firm control of their men and their heads.

Because they can really expect serious provocations to come their way.

Edited by animatic
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^ I really hope you're wrong.. Last year around Songkran they tried creating a mess, and that pretty much back-fired. I think a sustained but peaceful effort leading up to the next elections (whenever those come about) is better. But then that's me. Anyway I'll be in Bangkok so I may get to see it up close.

Edited by WinnieTheKhwai
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Anyway, this from the UDD about the March 12 protest. ( It's a press release so I hope that's appropriate for the News Clippings forum; if not then let me know. It does seem to provide some insight into their intentions at the high level.)

A MESSAGE TO THE GOOD PEOPLE OF BANGKOK

On Friday the 12th of March, a campaign aimed at ending the age of the Thai military dictatorship and restoring freedom, democracy and justice to our beautiful nation will begin. At this very moment, hundreds of thousands of people from all across our country not already in Bangkok are preparing to make their way to the capital, in defiance of a regime that has proven its willingness to commit violence and strip away the human rights of those who speak against it.

These people have peace in their hearts, but change also. Some wear red shirts, and some do not. Some of them march in support of a democratically elected leader who, for good or evil, was brought down by design of the military, not the will of the people. And yet others come too, some of whom used to wear yellow, who marched against what they perceived to be an authoritarian regime but have since witnessed far worse injustices.

These people are united by a few key beliefs. The belief in our constitutional monarchy. The belief in the power of non-violent change. The belief in double-standards-free justice. And the belief that, as Thai citizens, they deserve to have their voices heard and their concerns addressed. These people are united under the banner of the United front for Democracy against Dictatorship, or the UDD. And they are not to be feared- because if you believe in these things, then you are one of them as well.

This campaign will be the largest ever seen in Thai history. It is aimed at forcing the Abhisit regime (and the shadow government that supports it) to recognise what they are doing to our country and respond by dissolving parliament and calling for free and fair, internationally monitored elections- nothing more, nothing less. You might be forgiven for your scepticism that a non-violent campaign could achieve what we are seeking, but I would ask you to consider how the Indian nation was born. It was thanks to a peaceful struggle led by a man called Mahatma Gandhi, and was successful in liberating the Indian nation from the rule of the British Empire.

We are convinced that for the coming struggle we need no guns, bullets or blades, but only solidarity and sincerity in our hearts. We have learned from the mistakes of the past, and will allow no repeat of them. We will stand together, we will remain vigilant against troublemakers, and we will take care to ensure that no foreigner is harmed or intimidated. We will stare defiantly down the barrels of the guns of the soldiers who remain loyal to the men who wish us to remain silent and submissive, and we will embrace with open arms those who wish to put down their weapons and join us. We will make the Abhisit government make a final choice between democracy and dictatorship.

The junta knows that it will not survive a fair election, and it fears our demands, and wants you to fear us too. It wants you to ignore us, prevent us, or worse- stand by as we are arrested or cut down for exercising our democratic rights. But you should not. Because beneath every red shirt is a Thai citizen, and within their chests beats a heart that, like every other Thai, wants prosperity, wants freedom, wants respect and wants to see Thailand become the nation its citizens deserve.

On the 12th of March, the peaceful struggle for Thailand’s future will begin. The UDD calls for every person in Bangkok who has realised what our nation is in danger of becoming to welcome us as friends, to come onto the street and to join us in our call for change in Thailand.

(Source: UDD Facebook group - http://www.facebook.com/UDDThailand?v=app_2347471856 )

Edited by WinnieTheKhwai
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Just place a requirement that for every day of protests and necessary security forces to make the rally safe that a certain amount will be charged to Thaksin and taken from his remaining funds. In short let him pay for the trouble these rallies create.

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hey guys, big red shirt protest this evening on Pahonyothin Road, at 11:00 p.m. Was leaving Central Lad Prao and had to uturn because road was blocked up to Ratchadapisak. Lots and lots of cops and protesters out. Of course, nothing on the news or anywhere else.

I'm thinking George should set up a protest alert thread we can add to when something like this happens. Was scary, lots of yelling and loudspeakers,,,,,very chaotic too.

A lot of noise is typical for any political rally in Thailand on any side. Not necessarily scary because it's noisy; we get stage rallies by the Reds a lot in and around Chiang Mai. It's usually a lot of yelling, some music, then more yelling, etc. From watching ASTV before the PAD rallies were pretty similar.

Edited by WinnieTheKhwai
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How many do you know, JT? :)

( And, please on occasion come up with something that's not just the same personal opinion over and over again?

I mean, look at your post: "Red shirts are uncouth irrational thugs".. What is anyone going to reply to that? "Hey wow, I didn't know you felt that way", perhaps?

Edited by WinnieTheKhwai
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nationlogo.jpg

-- The Nation 07/03/2010

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Police yesterday arrested a man whose YouTube video had warned of bomb attacks and armed struggle in Bangkok.

Phornwat Thongthanaboon, who is also known as "K Thong", was seated inside a military van that Army expert Maj-General Khattiya Sawasdipol had taken to the Crime Suppression Division to ask about arranging for Phornwat's surrender.

Police had taken out an arrest warrant for Phornwat, a close aide to Khattiya, on charges of causing public disturbance and making a threat to cause widespread fear.

After his arrest, Phornwat denied all the charges, saying he merely made a prediction in his Internet astrology programme. The clip that appeared on YouTube was edited without his knowledge, he claimed.

Khattiya was giving an interview to reporters and was about to leave the CSD compound when CSD deputy commander Colonel Sanit Mahathaworn, backed by commandos, asked to search the van, which carried a military licence plate, while acting on a tip-off that Phornwat was inside.

Phornwat was found sitting on the back row holding a newspaper up to cover his face, along with four pistols and more than 50 bullets and a knife.

Khattiya, who turned grim after his aide's arrest, insisted the guns were registered and that he had to carry firearms because his life was under threat.

Khattiya told police that he had to leave for a flight to Ubon Ratchathani and was about to get into the van with his driver when CSD commandos asked them to return to the investigation room.

Khattiya told reporters that earlier in the day he had caught a man following him from Suvarnabhumi Airport. He said the man confessed that he worked for Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban. Khattiya confiscated the man's mobile phone, two-way radio and driver's licence.

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hey guys, big red shirt protest this evening on Pahonyothin Road, at 11:00 p.m. Was leaving Central Lad Prao and had to uturn because road was blocked up to Ratchadapisak. Lots and lots of cops and protesters out. Of course, nothing on the news or anywhere else.

I'm thinking George should set up a protest alert thread we can add to when something like this happens. Was scary, lots of yelling and loudspeakers,,,,,very chaotic too.

A lot of noise is typical for any political rally in Thailand on any side. Not necessarily scary because it's noisy; we get stage rallies by the Reds a lot in and around Chiang Mai. It's usually a lot of yelling, some music, then more yelling, etc. From watching ASTV before the PAD rallies were pretty similar.

I remember seeing a peaceful PAD rally marching down Sukhumvit, people cheering them on. This however was an ugly gang of taxi thugs screaming at us to uturn, and shouting and cursing all over the place. I was extremely happy to get away from there. This was not a demonstration but an attempt at violent overthrow.

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UPDATE

Thailand's Thaksin urges supporters to join anti-gov rally

BANGKOK (AFP) --

Thai premier Abhisit Vejjajiva has said his trip to Australia would go ahead as planned on March 13-17 despite the rallies, but a slew of extra security measures are in place and he has said tougher laws may be invoked.

<img src=http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/pics/afplogo.jpg target="_blank">

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-06

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Remember the last time the 'elected' PM stepped out of the country? Or will that be just too much of a coincidence?

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