How Good Do We Drive Compared To...a Thai?

[steelepulse]

>> they disregard the painted lines on the roads

Isn't it taught here that you straddle the line, not stay within them?

[sokal]

Ok,thanks for making it crystal clear,you are talking about a race with no rules....sort of like

I never mentioned having a race.just the basic principle of driving.I think statistics alone on the number of licences held legaly by Thais goes a long way in telling you that there are not that many educated drivers in Thailand....self taught yes,but compared to say the UK where many people now voluntarily take there advanced driving certificate.

Next you will be telling me that speed and disregard wins races(oh sorry you said that already!)It causes a lot of accidents as well and loses many races.

If you knew how to drive better then you would be more comfortable on Thai roads. What are these stats everyone keeps refering to anyway ?

[sokal]

>> they disregard the painted lines on the roads

Isn't it taught here that you straddle the line, not stay within them?

Knowing some traffic laws does not make you a good driver, knowing something about weight transfer, weight distribution, time and distance, speed estimation, understeer, oversteer and torque steer does.

[NADTATIDA1]

You forgot to show the other statistics and also the year 1996.

Would you like me to do some research or just throw you a shovel

[NADTATIDA1]

The Initiative

Thailand Road Safety Manifesto is an invitation by the Thai Society for

Transportation and Traffic Studies (TSTS), Thailand Accident Prevention

Network, the Office of Thai Health Promotion Fund (OTHP) and the

Ministry of Transport (MOT) to take concrete actions, assess results and

further heighten awareness about the need to reduce road accident

fatalities.

The Society 's mission is to help the country establish a safe and

sustainable transport system for our people. The Society through our

members is playing an important role in the country-wide effort to make

our roads safer. We together with OTHP and MOT wish to afford all '

road accidents' stakeholders (companies, public/private institutions,

associations) the opportunity to share good ideas and practices, so that

all stakeholders can learn from each other and gain inspiration as to

how the road safety situation in our country can be further improved.

In return Thailand Road Safety Manifesto offers national recognition to

the companies, public/private institutions and associations that have

signed up, and also makes the road safety actions they wish to carry out

more visible at the National and Asian level. .

Upon signing Thailand Road Safety Manifesto, you will help to build

upon knowledge and to exchange good practices on road safety with

the goal of cutting down the country's road fatalities by 5,000 in 5 years

period, starting from 2007, from the current annual average of some

13,000 fatalities down to 8,000, by 2012 while adding the National and

Asian dimension to your actions.

The Facts

For the past 5 years, 2002-2006, some 66,300 people died in road traffic

accidents in Thailand or an average of 13,260 deaths per annum. Some

5.0 million people were injured, some of them severely. The economic

loss resulted from traffic accidents were estimated at 200,000 million

Baht, corresponding to approximately 3.1% of the country's Gross

National Product.

THAILAND ROAD SAFETY MANIFESTO

The Human Tragedy 2007

Over 13,000 road fatalities occurs annually in our country with several

hundred thousands of those injured become permanently disabled.

Family of those crash victims who die suffer immeasurable grief and

many have to endure economic hardship resulting from the loss of the

family bread winners. For those hundred thousands families whose loved

one become disabled, life after the crash is a long and seemingly endless

drain on the family both emotionally and financially. And yet this human

tragedy can be prevented to a large extent.

The Goal

We can not and must not accept the notion that road accidents occur and

people die. As a nation we must collectively do our share of stopping the

killing on our roads. It is ambitious yet possible to reduce the number of

road deaths in our country by 5,000 between 2007 and 2012. This is

feasible by means of implementing a number of concrete measures and

uniting our forces. This goal serves to mobilise all stakeholders and coordinate

joint efforts.

A Joint Challenge

Reducing the number of road fatalities by 5,000 is a joint challenge. It can

only be met if the government, its related agencies, civil society

organizations and, of course, all citizens get fully involved in their

respective spheres of responsibility.

The Thai government, through its 5 year Road Safety Action Programme,

has listed some 14 programme of activities, whose implementation

depends on the responsibility of the various government departments.

Thailand Road Safety Manifesto is an appeal to all civil society

organizations to participate in this joint undertaking and implement

concrete measures to meet this challenge of saving ' 5,000 lives'.

[robbo1]

No, most Thais think Farangs can't drive.

Yes, from what I have encountered that is exactly right. My other half put on a DVD of us in Australia, one section featuring me driving a car & it really stuck a chord with the thais in the room, they couldnt believe that I could drive a car (& I didnt appear to be hitting anything either).

Several of them are also the same people that suggested I couldnt and shouldnt ride a motorcycle in Thailand & I will point out that since that time I have covered a large amount of kilometres & out of all of us Im the only one not to have an accident in that time, actually a couple of them have had several accidents in that time .

Same with my wifes brother they all thought that I could not drive until one day after many trips between Loei and Udon Thani at 80 kmh I got pissed off and blue the cobwebbs out of the vehicle he had they never said another thing and I got to drive a bit more

[NADTATIDA1]

THAI FORMULA 1 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS

[yabaaaa]

You still don't get it do you....If you paired up your average western driver with your average Thai driver for a race on a road course, which one would you put money on to win ? Judging by your previous posts you would pick the Thai because they drive faster and they disregard the painted lines on the roads. The winner of the race is the better driver.

You dont get it do you the roads arent for racing doh!!!

[yabaaaa]

quote name='mca' post='3401236' date='2010-03-10 10:44:06']

Thais know how to drive allot better then you or any farang does. It takes skill to drive fast and close

I see alot of close calls in Thailand but not allot of accidents. The faster the majority of the people drive the more alert you have to be on the roads. I think people like you are secretly scared of the roads in Thailand because you don't have the skill to keep up with the pace.

Replace skill with "stupidity"

I often see cars/buses in the central ditches over turned usually with people staggering around them. Hua Hin to BKK

Im interested how you can see when drivng fast and close how the guy/gal in fronts rear tyres is going to blow out and he starts spinning etc with this "looking ahead" vision some claim to have, and how that will save their skin? Surely now we are in the "amulet" territory?

You sound like my grandmother watching an F1 race, "ahh those boys are going to break their neck those fools"

You sound like someone who knows nothing, F1 almost totally controlled environment, Thai road almost totally uncontrolled environment.

[Thongkorn]

I find that Thais are actually pretty good drivers in general. Sure, their adherence to road rules measured by Western standards is appalling. However, in regard to the individuals' driving skills compared to where I am staying now, the Thais' are far more superior!

lets see how they drive in the snow.

[yabaaaa]

Ok,thanks for making it crystal clear,you are talking about a race with no rules....sort of like

I never mentioned having a race.just the basic principle of driving.I think statistics alone on the number of licences held legaly by Thais goes a long way in telling you that there are not that many educated drivers in Thailand....self taught yes,but compared to say the UK where many people now voluntarily take there advanced driving certificate.

Next you will be telling me that speed and disregard wins races(oh sorry you said that already!)It causes a lot of accidents as well and loses many races.

If you knew how to drive better then you would be more comfortable on Thai roads. What are these stats everyone keeps refering to anyway ?

A worldwide perspective not a biased local one. 20 is average, Thais far from being M Schumacer F1 drivers are just "average" Uk and Australia a lot less. Lok slike the less developed nations do worst Africa etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Traffic_..._per_capita.svg

[shamus]

Just because a Thai may have spent longer riding a 'motorbike' than a farang doesn't necessarily make them better. Ex gf being a prime example, they learn how not to get killed, not how best to control their vehicle. Nowhere on earth is better than Finland or Sweden for this.

I have a 10 year old nephew I'm pretty sure could ride a twist and go equally as well mainly because you just try to survive, no need to learn any rules, maybe what red light means but that's about it.

I shocked her father one day by riding his 20 year old Yam better than he can, first go. Front brake was snapped, rear brake as effective as foot dragging, broken clutch lever and inconsistent kick start. He was shocked. It wouldn't wheelie though

[Lancelot]

Thailand, equal opportunity for poor drivers, regardless of race, religion or national origin...

[elkangorito]

Let's see....

For Thais:

1] Thai driving test is a joke.

2] Culture "takes over" when at the wheel. Lots of amulets means "safety" or "I can do anything & live".

3] Common sense does not prevail.

For foreigners:

1] Thai driving test is great...if you're a moron. Otherwise, it's still a joke.

2] What is culture?

3] Common sense generally prevails...unless you're a moron.

[sokal]

>> they disregard the painted lines on the roads

Isn't it taught here that you straddle the line, not stay within them?

Knowing some traffic laws does not make you a good driver, knowing something about weight transfer, weight distribution, time and distance, speed estimation, understeer, oversteer and torque steer does.

And l have never seen a Thai who understands any of that. I drove from Bangkok to Ubon at new year a couple of years ago and witnessed carnage and stupidity at a grand level. I think you ride a push bike, come on, be honest.

My X TGF has a feel for it without even realizing it. It comes naturally with fast driving experience. The reason why North American drivers are the worst in the world is because they have little fast driving experience.

[sokal]

I find that Thais are actually pretty good drivers in general. Sure, their adherence to road rules measured by Western standards is appalling. However, in regard to the individuals' driving skills compared to where I am staying now, the Thais' are far more superior!

lets see how they drive in the snow.

Thai drivers, from fast driving experience, might actually have an idea of how much weight transfer it would take to break the tires loose on what vehicle they are driving. They might also know how to steer into a slide in snowy conditions.

[sokal]

Ok,thanks for making it crystal clear,you are talking about a race with no rules....sort of like

I never mentioned having a race.just the basic principle of driving.I think statistics alone on the number of licences held legaly by Thais goes a long way in telling you that there are not that many educated drivers in Thailand....self taught yes,but compared to say the UK where many people now voluntarily take there advanced driving certificate.

Next you will be telling me that speed and disregard wins races(oh sorry you said that already!)It causes a lot of accidents as well and loses many races.

If you knew how to drive better then you would be more comfortable on Thai roads. What are these stats everyone keeps refering to anyway ?

A worldwide perspective not a biased local one. 20 is average, Thais far from being M Schumacer F1 drivers are just "average" Uk and Australia a lot less. Lok slike the less developed nations do worst Africa etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Traffic_..._per_capita.svg

ok so we cleared that up, Thai motor vehicle fatalities are in the average range.

[sokal]

Let's see....

For Thais:

1] Thai driving test is a joke.

2] Culture "takes over" when at the wheel. Lots of amulets means "safety" or "I can do anything & live".

3] Common sense does not prevail.

For foreigners:

1] Thai driving test is great...if you're a moron. Otherwise, it's still a joke.

2] What is culture?

3] Common sense generally prevails...unless you're a moron.

Are you just not confident enough in your own driving ability to stay with the flow of Thai traffic ? I think so....

[phetaroi]

...

i think the main issue in a country like this, is making them understand the concept of being aware of whats going on around them. in my personal opinion of seeing thais driving, they seem to have a very blinkered attitude when put behind the wheel of a car.

as i see it they are in their own little world when it comes to driving.

I think you've hit a major point right on the head! Although it's not just that way about driving. Same for walking. How many times have I been on a department store escalator, only to have someone step one step off the escalator, stop dead in their tracks, and start fidgeting with their mobile phone while people pile up behind them. Or people walking down the street and walk right into me because they're not looking where they're walking. I often find it quite funny. And that same unawareness permeates driving here. The motorcycle driver who pulls right into traffic with not even a side glance to see if anything is coming on the main road.

On the other hand, I also don't see many cars with fender-benders. Certainly not as many as I found in the Washington suburbs where I used to live. Maybe it's like when I was a kid and the hel_l Drivers would come to the annual fair. They were very skilled at driving...but that didn't mean I wanted them in the lane next to me on the highway. Sometimes I find Thai drivers to be skillful, but not lawful.

In my almost annual visits here since 1988, I've always at some point rented a car and driven somewhere in the country. While I can't say I've driven in every province, I've certainly driven in most and in every region of the country. What I find is that I can't quite relax while driving here the way I did back in the States. I have to remain alert. I know that I have to think differently when driving here...think like a Thai person. I think the westerners who get into traffic problems are trying to apply the rules back home to driving here, That doesn't work any better than Asians in America trying to drive like it is in Thailand. You've got to go with the flow, so to speak (although in Bangkok, things don't always flow).

I may want to edit my comment in a month or so, because yesterday I went out and bought a new car. It will be ready on Monday.

And just a word about that...good experience, much easier and relaxed buying a car here than in the States...although much more expensive. But before signing the papers I said to the salesman, "Now I just want to confirm...automatic transmission? Power steering? Power brakes?" The answer was yes to all, and he laughed and wanted to know why I would ask. Now I know 1990 was ancient history to him...he was in his late 20's, but to me that's not that long ago, and finding a rental car with automatic transmission in Thailand in 1990 was nigh on impossible. In fact, I remember right about then going into an Avis rental place and asking about "automatic transmission". We went through several clerks before one understood and then she said, "Oh, yes, I know, American cannot drive real car." So to any hi-so reading this...ha! You cannot drive a real car!

[phetaroi]

I was once told by some thais in the village, they dont believe falangs know how to drive a car of motorbike, they seemed astonished that we can even get down the road safely. This is coming from people that have never had any drivers training whatsoever and some didnt even have a driving license....

Yes, I had a Thai once tell me that in a very sarcastic way, clearly making me the butt of the joke. I paused and calmly said, "America and Japan manufacture almost all of the cars in the world. How many Thai car companies are there?"

[tigerfish]

i would like to add another little part to this thread if i may.

a question.

whats the worst part of thailand that you have driven in.

for me,

koh samui, bangkok obviously because i live here, and the stretch between saraburi-khon khen.

(sorry in advance to NATATIDA1, not trying to steal your thunder)

report and ask the post to be removed if you feel it detracts from the original topic.

Edited March 11, 2010 by tigerfish

[sokal]

Sometimes I find Thai drivers to be skillful, but not lawful.

well put ,that is all that I was trying to point out.

[NADTATIDA1]

i would like to add another little part to this thread if i may.

a question.

whats the worst part of thailand that you have driven in.

for me,

koh samui, bangkok obviously because i live here, and the stretch between saraburi-khon khen.

(sorry in advance to NATATIDA1, not trying to steal your thunder)

report and ask the post to be removed if you feel it detracts from the original topic.

The road between saraburi-khon kaen can be particually bad,so busy.

Sukhumvit takes some beating,from one end to the other would not like to guesstimate how many accidents there are daily?

Also samui is bad yes,but more so for bikes!

BUT for me it has to Bangkok just for the sheer volume of traffic that goes nowhere fast.

[NADTATIDA1]

...

i think the main issue in a country like this, is making them understand the concept of being aware of whats going on around them. in my personal opinion of seeing thais driving, they seem to have a very blinkered attitude when put behind the wheel of a car.

as i see it they are in their own little world when it comes to driving.

I think you've hit a major point right on the head! Although it's not just that way about driving. Same for walking. How many times have I been on a department store escalator, only to have someone step one step off the escalator, stop dead in their tracks, and start fidgeting with their mobile phone while people pile up behind them. Or people walking down the street and walk right into me because they're not looking where they're walking. I often find it quite funny. And that same unawareness permeates driving here. The motorcycle driver who pulls right into traffic with not even a side glance to see if anything is coming on the main road.

On the other hand, I also don't see many cars with fender-benders. Certainly not as many as I found in the Washington suburbs where I used to live. Maybe it's like when I was a kid and the hel_l Drivers would come to the annual fair. They were very skilled at driving...but that didn't mean I wanted them in the lane next to me on the highway. Sometimes I find Thai drivers to be skillful, but not lawful.

In my almost annual visits here since 1988, I've always at some point rented a car and driven somewhere in the country. While I can't say I've driven in every province, I've certainly driven in most and in every region of the country. What I find is that I can't quite relax while driving here the way I did back in the States. I have to remain alert. I know that I have to think differently when driving here...think like a Thai person. I think the westerners who get into traffic problems are trying to apply the rules back home to driving here, That doesn't work any better than Asians in America trying to drive like it is in Thailand. You've got to go with the flow, so to speak (although in Bangkok, things don't always flow).

I may want to edit my comment in a month or so, because yesterday I went out and bought a new car. It will be ready on Monday.

And just a word about that...good experience, much easier and relaxed buying a car here than in the States...although much more expensive. But before signing the papers I said to the salesman, "Now I just want to confirm...automatic transmission? Power steering? Power brakes?" The answer was yes to all, and he laughed and wanted to know why I would ask. Now I know 1990 was ancient history to him...he was in his late 20's, but to me that's not that long ago, and finding a rental car with automatic transmission in Thailand in 1990 was nigh on impossible. In fact, I remember right about then going into an Avis rental place and asking about "automatic transmission". We went through several clerks before one understood and then she said, "Oh, yes, I know, American cannot drive real car." So to any hi-so reading this...ha! You cannot drive a real car!

A lot of what you say i have experienced,great post,oh... and take it easy in that new motor!

[teacherpaul]

I wonder which one of them was using the family brain cell at the time they spouted such ignorance!

I was once told by some thais in the village, they dont believe falangs know how to drive a car of motorbike, they seemed astonished that we can even get down the road safely. This is coming from people that have never had any drivers training whatsoever and some didnt even have a driving license....

[culicine]

Ok,thanks for making it crystal clear,you are talking about a race with no rules....sort of like

I never mentioned having a race.just the basic principle of driving.I think statistics alone on the number of licences held legaly by Thais goes a long way in telling you that there are not that many educated drivers in Thailand....self taught yes,but compared to say the UK where many people now voluntarily take there advanced driving certificate.

Next you will be telling me that speed and disregard wins races(oh sorry you said that already!)It causes a lot of accidents as well and loses many races.

If you knew how to drive better then you would be more comfortable on Thai roads. What are these stats everyone keeps refering to anyway ?

A worldwide perspective not a biased local one. 20 is average, Thais far from being M Schumacer F1 drivers are just "average" Uk and Australia a lot less. Lok slike the less developed nations do worst Africa etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Traffic_..._per_capita.svg

ok so we cleared that up, Thai motor vehicle fatalities are in the average range.

Traffic density, rather than number of deaths per 10000 vehicles, would be a better indicator of the likelihood of an accident. And does "vehicle" include motorbikes? The seem to account for over 80% of the deaths here...

[NADTATIDA1]

Just llike to point out those atatistics are from 1995/6

[dave_boo]

My X TGF has a feel for it without even realizing it. It comes naturally with fast driving experience. The reason why North American drivers are the worst in the world is because they have little fast driving experience.

Going quickly =/= driving well. And North Americans are the worst in the world? As mentioned elsewhere, put their incidents against ownership numbers and get back to us.....

Thai drivers, from fast driving experience, might actually have an idea of how much weight transfer it would take to break the tires loose on what vehicle they are driving. They might also know how to steer into a slide in snowy conditions.

A lot of suppostions in your statements. And there's a lot more than simply knowing about weight transfer, which is so stupendously out of context that it makes me think that you've never driven in snow/sleet/ice (hint; if you're going fast enough to affect enough weight transfer to seriously affect your handling in those conditions you need to be sterilised and lobotomised), but rather adhesion limits of tyres. Any modern vehicle has braking capacity that far outwhelms the capability of the tyres to maintain a grip in snow. Every car I've driven (never drove a Geo Metro) has the power to outstrip the same grip. All cars, once again that I've driven, have all had sufficient mass to exceed the tyre's grip.

Countersteering is VERY counterintuitive; the only way to really get a feel for it is to go ahead and do it; i.e. have experience. And having witnessed the accidents that I have in LOS, Thais certainly don't know about it; blowouts that end up with the vehicle headed in all sorts of wrong directions, and often a roll over, speak plainly enough for me.

But i could not know what I'm talking about...growing up on a farm in between 3 of the Great Lakes and witnessing everything from loose gravel to autumn leaves piled 2" deep to that light first snow when the tarmac's still wet to 10" deep to black ice and learning how to drive on all of it with only a manual transmission vehicle may not provide me with the skill set needed to keep me from being embarrassed by those fast driving Thais.

[yabaaaa]

ok so we cleared that up, Thai motor vehicle fatalities are in the average range.

Oh dear No not really, one of those "skilfull" drivers you mention hit my wifes car today, no insurance borrowed car, over loaded etc etc etc "im poor" etc blah blah blah. He'll be out again tomorrow doing his "skilful" driving.

Sokal your talking crap IMO

Heres where the "skilful drivers come from by region WORLDWIDE

Africa

11%

Central/East

Europe

12%

Asia & Pacific

44%

Latin/Central

America &

Caribbean

13%

Middle East

6%

Source http://www.transport-links.org/transport_l..._771_Pa3568.pdf

Edited March 11, 2010 by yabaaaa

[bifftastic]

well, back to the original question, what do Thais think of farang driving skills?

I drove my g/f's family (5 in the front and 9 in the back) in a borrowed pick-up (manual) on a 150km round trip in Chiang Rai and, before we set off, there seemed to be some discussion as to which of the family was going to drive. In my mind there was no discussion necessary, I'm driving!

There were a few surprised faces when I got in the drivers seat, g/f explained it was ok 'he's driven in Phuket'

'ahhhh ok ok' all smiles!

Certainly surprised the Police officer who stopped us at a checkpoint! He started to talk to me as I wound down the tinted window....his face was a picture when he saw 'whitey' behind the wheel!

As was the farang driver's face who decided to lean out of his rental and give me a mouthful of abuse when he thought I should get out of his way (obstacle on his side of the road, just before a narrow bridge, the three vehicles in front of him went round it and he thought he would just follow them and not look first)

I'm only guessing, but I doubt he expected the driver of a pick-up with 13 Thais in it to be quite so large, quite so white, wearing a West Ham shirt and advise him (whilst smiling) to wind his window up and <deleted>*k off! (raucous laughter from everyone in the back of the pick-up)

Almost got a round of applause for being able to ride the automatic scooter!

I think they think the first vehicle we have ever seen or got into is the taxi at the airport!

As for the roads and the nutty things they do on them, maybe I'm used to nutty drivers and expect the unexpected, as I drive in London every day!