My Thai Wife And I Want To Move To The Usa

[TheItaliann]

I am US citizen.

She currently has a 10 year tourist visa to the USA.

We want to move to the USA permanently (but still take vacations to Thailand).

Is there currently a long waiting list for applications to do this at the embassy in bangkok?

how long will the visa process take before she is issued the visa?

----

my wife is under the impression that although she has a 6 month at a time tourist visa, if she shows up in the usa for months at a time, then she will end up getting her visa revoked. is this true? thanks.

Edited March 18, 2010 by TheItaliann

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Checking with a friend now, believe his wife's case took about four months. One thing that really sped things up is that since they've lived here for at least one year, they were able to file the original I-130 petition and supporting documents with U.S. Immigration there on Wireless Road. It can be a MUCH longer process if you're required to file in the U.S.

You can start the learning process here: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/immigrant_visas.html

Mac

[TheItaliann]

i've been married for more than 4 years.

my wife and i co-own property in the usa, purchased while on her tourist visa.

Edited March 18, 2010 by TheItaliann

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Checking with a friend now, believe his wife's case took about four months. One thing that really sped things up is that since they've lived here for at least one year, they were able to file the original I-130 petition and supporting documents with U.S. Immigration there on Wireless Road. It can be a MUCH longer process if you're required to file in the U.S.

You can start the learning process here: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/immigrant_visas.html

Mac

OK, his reply below. FYI, she just received her K-3 visa this past Monday.

Mac

3 months. Have to meet the year residency requirement to do it with USCIS direct. First visit was to ask about K 3 or K 1 or tourist with USCIS. After the visit we got married legally. About two months and half from submitting our first application with USCIS

Out of the three applying for K 3 that day the 15th, she was the only one approved. She was turned down also but I had the I 864 with me and submitted it that afternoon to get approval. It was not called for in the packet to submit. I did not think it was necessary due to I 134 submitted. Dont know what problem with others but mostly evidence problems.

Within two months two days. we just checked calendar. we were promised three or more but less. USCIS was quite helpful. Especially with corrections of forms. Not an easy fill out. J

[TheItaliann]

thanks for that info on your friend's experience.

does anyone know once the visa is issued how long before you have to use it? we will need to make sure we get it and then go about moving/selling our possessions/automobiles in thailand.

Edited March 18, 2010 by TheItaliann

[Svenn]

my wife is under the impression that although she has a 6 month at a time tourist visa, if she shows up in the usa for months at a time, then she will end up getting her visa revoked. is this true? thanks.

I have a similar question. At the mexican border, the official told us she has to wait 6 months before coming to the US again after she leaves (thankfully we had only gone into mexico for 30 minutes, and didn't constitute a 'meaningful departure'). I had never heard that and I'm not sure he's right. I thought one could come and go on a tourist visa as one pleases, just not one stay or a cumulative stay of over 6 months a year.

Anyway, I don't think your wife's visa would be revoked but she could be denied entry by the border official, which might not be the same thing. The way to prevent that is to show similar evidence of ties to thailand like you did when she applied at the embassy. Border officials are usually insecure fbi wannabes so they're always looking for trouble or something to get excited about (similar to the local cops around here pulling their gun on a guy that was fishing without a license... i mean c'mon, get a life)... so you got that to worry about.

[shawndoc]

Since you are married and living in Thailand, I believe you will want to do a CR-1 Visa, filed directly with the consulate in Bangkok, rather than a K3/CR1 filed in the US. This will take less time than a K3 as it skips the "middleman" so to speak. I'm not sure what the qualifications are to file directly with the consulate, but do know of people who have.

[DirectorIntegrityLegal]

Hi Guys,

First, although K3 is the common buzzword for "US Marriage Visa" on the internet it is actually a relatively new visa category as it was only created at the end of Clinton's Presidency by the enactment of "The LIFE Act." Further, it is not a K3 that is sought at the USCIS office in Bangkok, but either and IR1 or a CR1 as the local USCIS office does not accept any I-129f petitions (for fiancees or spouses). It is also not directly filed with the Consulate. Direct Consular Filings occur at Diplomatic or Consular Posts under the authority of the Department of State. Thailand is somewhat unique in the region as they have a rather large USCIS office (USCIS is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Homeland Security). In a way, Direct Consular Filings were created to expedite Immigrant visas as a courtesy to American expats residing overseas, the local USCIS office handles the intake of the initial visa petition and is more akin to a mini-service center (like the ones in Vermont and California) with jurisdiction over those in Thailand. In immigrant visa cases, one of the major benefits of filing locally is the circumvention of the National Visa Center as the initial petition is simply forwarded across the street.

Nearly all Family Based visas have a validity period of 6 months. This means that the bearer has six months to use the visa. Once she enters, she may remain for the amount of time granted by the visa (IR visa holders may remain indefinitely, as can CR1 visa holders so long as they file for, and obtain, a lift of conditions). This is confusing in K1 cases as the beneficiary is allowed to remain in the USA for 90 days after entry, but can use the visa within 180 days after issuance. If the K-1 beneficiary marries the petitioner and files for adjustment of status then she may stay pending the adjustment.

As to the issues surrounding tourist visas, this is relatively new and results from Customs and Border Protection's relatively recent proclivity toward expedited removals for "undiclosed immigrants without proper documentation." Essentially, CBP can make a factual determination that an alien with a non-immigrant visa is really an undisclosed immigrant based upon the totality of the circumstances. Therefore, long periods in the USA on a tourist visa and frequent trips to the USA within a short period of time could result in an alien being placed in expedited removal proceedings. The CBP officer at Svenn's wife's entry was warning them about the possibility that her presence could be construed as "undisclosed immigration." These rules are fairly draconian and originated in the mid 90's under IIllegal Immigration Reform and Responsibility Act. For a while expedited removal was not used very often, but I have seen a recent surge in such proceedings occurring at ports of entry in the USA. This is one more reason why it is not wise to have a foreign fiance or spouse enter on a tourist visa if the underlying reason for entry is to adjust status stateside as the foreign loved one could be placed in expedited removal proceedings and barred from reentry for 5 years.

I hope this was helpful.

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

Edited March 19, 2010 by DirectorIntegrityLegal

[TheItaliann]

Thanks. Can you please give more information on what the rules are to a CR-1 in terms of allowing the Thai spouse to travel outside of the USA? Is a CR-1 a green card?

[DirectorIntegrityLegal]

Thanks. Can you please give more information on what the rules are to a CR-1 in terms of allowing the Thai spouse to travel outside of the USA? Is a CR-1 a green card?

A CR-1 is a "Green Card" and confers conditional lawful permanent residence at entry. In order for the permanent residence to become "unconditional" the alien must apply for and obtain a lift of conditions (as stated above).

An alien present in the USA on a CR-1 may come and go from the USA, but it is wise to keep trips out of the USA to a duration of under 6 months. If a resident alien is outside of the USA for more than a year, then this raises the presumption that they have abandoned their residence and the alien could be turned away at the border upon trying to reenter. If a US Permanent Resident has been outside of the USA for more than a year, then it may be wise to file for a Returning Resident Visa before attempting to return to the USA.

If the alien has been out of the country for less than one year, then the presumption of abandonment is not technically raised, but from anecdotal evidence, the alien may not have a pleasant return to the USA if they have been out of the country for more than 6 months, but less than one year as the CBP officers could scrutinize the alien heavily.

If the alien is to be abroad for a long period of time, the way to avoid problems is to apply for a reentry permit prior to departure, which allows the alien to depart for up to 2 years without raising the presumption of residential abandonment.

I hope that this was helpful

All the Best!!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

[Svenn]

I have a similar question. At the mexican border, the official told us she has to wait 6 months before coming to the US again after she leaves (thankfully we had only gone into mexico for 30 minutes, and didn't constitute a 'meaningful departure'). I had never heard that and I'm not sure he's right. I thought one could come and go on a tourist visa as one pleases, just not one stay or a cumulative stay of over 6 months a year.

I had heard before that this 6 month waiting period between entries was an unwritten rule that was enforced at the discretion of the immigration officer. Nice to know that it might be officially enforced now. I know that many other countries also have rules that limit tourists to 6 months per year in country.

Svenn, just curious, when you crossed the border into mexico did your gf have to turn in her I-94 card and get another one when you crossed back?

No, we didn't have to do anything except the US border guy said I should turn in my rifle to a storage facility before we crossed into Mexico (it felt weird walking around that little border town with my gun in the air, but I got it done). He looked at her passport and let us through... Mexico of course didn't care at all... an hour later when we returned the US border official just looked at her passport a while, and let us back in. I don't know what the I-94 card is.

[Lance_A_Lot]

Checking with a friend now, believe his wife's case took about four months. One thing that really sped things up is that since they've lived here for at least one year, they were able to file the original I-130 petition and supporting documents with U.S. Immigration there on Wireless Road. It can be a MUCH longer process if you're required to file in the U.S.

You can start the learning process here: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/immigrant_visas.html

Mac

Yes, all of the above is true. My wife and I, along with our 6 yr. old son who was born in BKK and is an American & Thai citizen, moved to the USA early last December.

We lived in Thailand for about 9 years.

We filed the I-130, etc. at U.S. Immigration and Homeland Security office on Wireless Road, and the entire process took about 4 months.

I will say that one has an easier time if they have been legally married for two years. My wife received her Permanent Resident Card ('Green Card')

three weeks after we arrived in the States. She received a Social Security number about 4 weeks after entering.

My wife misses Thai food and her family; but, she love it here in the States. Our son has adjusted beautifully to school here in the U.S.

I hope all goes well for you.

[andyc2006]

Checking with a friend now, believe his wife's case took about four months. One thing that really sped things up is that since they've lived here for at least one year, they were able to file the original I-130 petition and supporting documents with U.S. Immigration there on Wireless Road. It can be a MUCH longer process if you're required to file in the U.S.

You can start the learning process here: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/immigrant_visas.html

Mac

I went through the same process with my Thai wife last year -- we were living in Bangkok, filed for her visa directly with DHS in the Sindhorn building, across from the Embassy's annex, on Wireless road, in the middle of August 2009.

3 months later (Nov 19, I think), she had her immigrant visa. She flew to the US on Dec 25. Within days, she was issued a Social Security number. They mailed her "green card" to her in January.

The only "trick" is that you can file directly with DHS only if you meet the residency requirement... they carefully scrutinized my passport to ensure that I hadn't spent too many days in the U.S. during the prior year (I don't know what their threshold is...).

[andyc2006]

I will say that one has an easier time if they have been legally married for two years.

There's only 1 difference. If they've been married < 2 years, then 2 years after arrival into the US, the couple needs to file an additional form with USCIS. The form is free, and the purpose is to tell USCIS, "hey, we're still married, it wasn't all a sham. Please lift the 'conditional' status from his/her permanent residence now."

[sanooki]

Hi, this is an interesting thread. I've just been married myself and plan to live here for at least a year.

I'm wondering if you folks needed to have jobs in the US in order to sponsor your wives, or not? If not, did you need to meet a savings requirement?

Thank you

[sanooki]

Hi, this is an interesting thread. I've just been married myself and plan to live here for at least a year.

I'm wondering if you folks needed to have jobs in the US in order to sponsor your wives, or not? If not, did you need to meet a savings requirement?

Thank you

bump?

[DirectorIntegrityLegal]

Hi, this is an interesting thread. I've just been married myself and plan to live here for at least a year.

I'm wondering if you folks needed to have jobs in the US in order to sponsor your wives, or not? If not, did you need to meet a savings requirement?

Thank you

bump?

A Petitioner for a US Immigrant Visa must be able to show sufficient income to support their spouse at a level at least 125% of the US poverty level (Active Duty Military need only meet 100% of the poverty level) in order to meet the Affidavit of Support requirements. If one cannot show this income then the Consular Officer may look at assets and savings, but the assets must have a value that is at least 5 times the difference between the Petitioner's income and the figure required by the guidelines. Therefore, if someone makes 15,000 dollars in income and needs to reach 18,000, this deficiency could be remedied by showing that the Petitioner has at least 15,000 dollars in assets (5 x $3,000).

Hopefully this was helpful

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

Edited March 23, 2010 by DirectorIntegrityLegal

[sanooki]

Hi, this is an interesting thread. I've just been married myself and plan to live here for at least a year.

I'm wondering if you folks needed to have jobs in the US in order to sponsor your wives, or not? If not, did you need to meet a savings requirement?

Thank you

bump?

A Petitioner for a US Immigrant Visa must be able to show sufficient income to support their spouse at a level at least 125% of the US poverty level (Active Duty Military need only meet 100% of the poverty level) in order to meet the Affidavit of Support requirements. If one cannot show this income then the Consular Officer may look at assets and savings, but the assets must have a value that is at least 5 times the difference between the Petitioner's income and the figure required by the guidelines. Therefore, if someone makes 15,000 dollars in income and needs to reach 18,000, this deficiency could be remedied by showing that the Petitioner has at least 15,000 dollars in assets (5 x $3,000).

Hopefully this was helpful

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

Thanks Ben. I know about the rules.

It seems these folks may have Thailand-based jobs. If that is true, I'm wondering if they had qualified based on savings. If so, did they have to have that money in a US bank?

With the Thai system there are ways to certify that the money is either generated or held abroad. Do those same kinds of rules apply with the US visas? Just trying to get a grasp of how the rules are actually applied in these Thailand-based situations.

[DirectorIntegrityLegal]

Hi, this is an interesting thread. I've just been married myself and plan to live here for at least a year.

I'm wondering if you folks needed to have jobs in the US in order to sponsor your wives, or not? If not, did you need to meet a savings requirement?

Thank you

bump?

A Petitioner for a US Immigrant Visa must be able to show sufficient income to support their spouse at a level at least 125% of the US poverty level (Active Duty Military need only meet 100% of the poverty level) in order to meet the Affidavit of Support requirements. If one cannot show this income then the Consular Officer may look at assets and savings, but the assets must have a value that is at least 5 times the difference between the Petitioner's income and the figure required by the guidelines. Therefore, if someone makes 15,000 dollars in income and needs to reach 18,000, this deficiency could be remedied by showing that the Petitioner has at least 15,000 dollars in assets (5 x $3,000).

Hopefully this was helpful

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

Thanks Ben. I know about the rules.

It seems these folks may have Thailand-based jobs. If that is true, I'm wondering if they had qualified based on savings. If so, did they have to have that money in a US bank?

With the Thai system there are ways to certify that the money is either generated or held abroad. Do those same kinds of rules apply with the US visas? Just trying to get a grasp of how the rules are actually applied in these Thailand-based situations.

Assets held abroad are generally not considered by the officers when they assess ability to support a fiancee/spouse. Domicile and employment issues are also analyzed when dealing with an I-864 and can be highly complex in expat cases. It is best to deal with domicile on a case by case basis and not in a forum such as this as it can involve confidential information such as taxes, foreign earned income information, voter registration, etc.

I hope this was helpful.

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

[sanooki]

Assets held abroad are generally not considered by the officers when they assess ability to support a fiancee/spouse. Domicile and employment issues are also analyzed when dealing with an I-864 and can be highly complex in expat cases. It is best to deal with domicile on a case by case basis and not in a forum such as this as it can involve confidential information such as taxes, foreign earned income information, voter registration, etc.

I hope this was helpful.

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

Ok, I can understand the privacy issues and that all cases are unique.

But I think what I'm also picking up here is that it is possible to have a job and/or assets (or even permanent domicile?) in Thailand and have an application go through for a visa.

These folks are already explaining other aspects of their cases. The support aspects are completely invisible, which could lead one to believe they are unnecessary. I believe that is not true, so raised the questions.

I have been under the impression I needed to live in the US with a US job or assets, and yet it seems that might not be completely the case. I don't need to know exact details, but some knowledge of what is possible is important to me.

Cheers

[DirectorIntegrityLegal]

Assets held abroad are generally not considered by the officers when they assess ability to support a fiancee/spouse. Domicile and employment issues are also analyzed when dealing with an I-864 and can be highly complex in expat cases. It is best to deal with domicile on a case by case basis and not in a forum such as this as it can involve confidential information such as taxes, foreign earned income information, voter registration, etc.

I hope this was helpful.

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

Ok, I can understand the privacy issues and that all cases are unique.

But I think what I'm also picking up here is that it is possible to have a job and/or assets (or even permanent domicile?) in Thailand and have an application go through for a visa.

These folks are already explaining other aspects of their cases. The support aspects are completely invisible, which could lead one to believe they are unnecessary. I believe that is not true, so raised the questions.

I have been under the impression I needed to live in the US with a US job or assets, and yet it seems that might not be completely the case. I don't need to know exact details, but some knowledge of what is possible is important to me.

Cheers

First off, domicile is a "loaded term" that people often misunderstand. From a legal standpoint, it means place of residence that one intends to return to. That being said, I think the Embassy, due to their often extremely heavy caseload, sometimes has difficulty discerning those who have a residence overseas and a domicile in the USA from those who are in Thailand without a domicile in the USA. Therefore, I think in an effort to streamline the process, they want to see that a Petitioner is taking affirmative steps toward re-establishing their residence in the USA. The evidence of re-establishing residence would depend upon the case.

As to a job, it is possible that a Petitioner could have assets which allow him or her to sponsor a fiancee or spouse notwithstanding the fact that they do not make enough income, but again, Consular Officers have wide discretion in adjudicating these matters so it is difficult to give concrete advice about what will "work" and what won't.

As to knowledge of what is possible: form a factual standpoint, whatever a Consular Officer says is possible. When it comes to matters of financial ability to provide support and the issue of domicile and residence the outcome of a case will often turn upon the facts of the case and Consular Officers have virtually limitless and un-appealable discretion in making factual determinations pursuant to the doctrine of Consular Non-Reviewability (Also Known As: Consular Absolutism). I don't mean to seem coy, but nailing down specific parameters with regard to these issues is difficult as it really is greatly dependent upon the Consular Officer's discretion.

I hope that this was helpful or at least somewhat enlightening.

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

[sanooki]

Assets held abroad are generally not considered by the officers when they assess ability to support a fiancee/spouse. Domicile and employment issues are also analyzed when dealing with an I-864 and can be highly complex in expat cases. It is best to deal with domicile on a case by case basis and not in a forum such as this as it can involve confidential information such as taxes, foreign earned income information, voter registration, etc.

I hope this was helpful.

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

Ok, I can understand the privacy issues and that all cases are unique.

But I think what I'm also picking up here is that it is possible to have a job and/or assets (or even permanent domicile?) in Thailand and have an application go through for a visa.

These folks are already explaining other aspects of their cases. The support aspects are completely invisible, which could lead one to believe they are unnecessary. I believe that is not true, so raised the questions.

I have been under the impression I needed to live in the US with a US job or assets, and yet it seems that might not be completely the case. I don't need to know exact details, but some knowledge of what is possible is important to me.

Cheers

First off, domicile is a "loaded term" that people often misunderstand. From a legal standpoint, it means place of residence that one intends to return to. That being said, I think the Embassy, due to their often extremely heavy caseload, sometimes has difficulty discerning those who have a residence overseas and a domicile in the USA from those who are in Thailand without a domicile in the USA. Therefore, I think in an effort to streamline the process, they want to see that a Petitioner is taking affirmative steps toward re-establishing their residence in the USA. The evidence of re-establishing residence would depend upon the case.

As to a job, it is possible that a Petitioner could have assets which allow him or her to sponsor a fiancee or spouse notwithstanding the fact that they do not make enough income, but again, Consular Officers have wide discretion in adjudicating these matters so it is difficult to give concrete advice about what will "work" and what won't.

As to knowledge of what is possible: form a factual standpoint, whatever a Consular Officer says is possible. When it comes to matters of financial ability to provide support and the issue of domicile and residence the outcome of a case will often turn upon the facts of the case and Consular Officers have virtually limitless and un-appealable discretion in making factual determinations pursuant to the doctrine of Consular Non-Reviewability (Also Known As: Consular Absolutism). I don't mean to seem coy, but nailing down specific parameters with regard to these issues is difficult as it really is greatly dependent upon the Consular Officer's discretion.

I hope that this was helpful or at least somewhat enlightening.

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

This discussion has been enlightening for sure, Ben. It is helpful, in the sense that it points up that there are potential unexplored factors that could weigh in a case, including my own.

Since no one has chimed in to add details, I'm still not sure what kinds of things have been practically experienced. Hearing more could give me a better idea whether I should have hope for a different outcome in my case. But I don't remember seeing these factors mentioned before here, or on the board dedicated to citizenship issues. I haven't read everything that is out there, of course.

After hearing the "rules" before, I had taken them at face value and determined all I could do is go to the US, find a job, and wait 8 or 9 months alone while my wife does the same. Now I believe I should dig deeper, and that it is possible I might have a more optimistic outcome. I would rather go back with my wife in tow.

My resources are limited. Otherwise, I would seek experienced counsel to cut to the chase. I've also seen I could be cleaned out in a flash without some preparation beforehand. Of course, if I had the funding I could use it for the sponsorship itself. In either case, being able to learn from others' experiences is one of the beauties of boards such as this.

Regards