Other Countries Pensions

[brianw]

In the last week we have had lots of discussions on the UK pension. I would be interested to know what members from other countries get from there government. The Uk from £96 appx to £184 in my case

[mogoso]

Would you be able to live on that in the UK? Be really hard to live in Thailand on that small of a stipend. With the high rate of taxation in the UK, it'd seem they could do better. I've read the average Social Security payment in the US is $1000 per month. Some where around 640 GBP. Until recently there was a COLA (cost of living allowance) but due to the financial situation it been suspended by Congress (who voted themselves a raise)

Edited March 18, 2010 by mogoso

[witold]

In USA, the amount you get depends on how much you paid into the system. The more you paid in and longer you worked, the more you will get back.

A rough chart can be found HERE.

From the chart above, a person who has been making about $65K/year will receive $1,236/mo, $1,609/mo, or $2,253/mo - depending on whether that person retires at 62 (early), 66 (typical) or 70 (late). The amount is prorated for retirement ages in between.

The information above about COLA is incorrect. Social Security benefits are based on a federally mandated formula which is very similar to Consumer Price Index (CPI). (I presume you guys know what CPI is.) If CPI doesn't go up, SS benefits don't go up. If inflation is high and CPI goes up, Social Security benefits go up as well.

Actually, it is a lot better to not get SS increase during deflationary period because SS benefits will not decrease but buying power will increase. In contrast, CPI related increase that doesn't do anything than keep up with inflation.

Edited March 18, 2010 by witold

[a2396]

In USA, the amount you get depends on how much you paid into the system. The more you paid in and longer you worked, the more you will get back.

A rough chart can be found HERE.

From the chart above, a person who has been making about $65K/year will receive $1,236/mo, $1,609/mo, or $2,253/mo - depending on whether that person retires at 62 (early), 66 (typical) or 70 (late). The amount is prorated for retirement ages in between.

The information above about COLA is incorrect. Social Security benefits are based on a federally mandated formula which is very similar to Consumer Price Index (CPI). (I presume you guys know what CPI is.) If CPI doesn't go up, SS benefits don't go up. If inflation is high and CPI goes up, Social Security benefits go up as well.

Actually, it is a lot better to not get SS increase during deflationary period because SS benefits will not decrease but buying power will increase. In contrast, CPI related increase that doesn't do anything than keep up with inflation.

CPI indexing is relevant to this past year I guess, but Congress suspended any SS increase for 2 years. So, no next year no raise either. no matter what the CPI.

[PeaceBlondie]

AFAIK, SSI COLA increases are mandated, permanently. No increase during deflation.

There are many pensions in the USA: military, federal and state civil service, veterans, private pensions, school employees, police, fire, counties, etc.

[bunta71]

"

"but Congress suspended any SS increase for 2 years."

I am curious as to where you got that information. I was sitting at Black Canyon Coffee the other day and one of the right wing whackos sitting there asks me..."Did you hear about Obama cutting out our Social Security COLA this year?" I replied about the formula mentioned by witold earlier and this nut wouldn't have anything to do with letting the facts getting in the way with his propaganda. So I e-mailed him later that day with the letter I had just received from Social Security detailing the aforementioned process. He is still not convinced because he said Fox "noise" had reported it. So not to include you in the same category and always seeking the truth rather than propaganda I simply ask where your info came from.

[jetjock]

CPI indexing is relevant to this past year I guess, but Congress suspended any SS increase for 2 years. So, no next year no raise either. no matter what the CPI.

Sorry but I think your statement is incorrect. Although there was no COLA adjustment in December 2009 due to the CPI indexing formula, it will not be known until the end of the third quarter of this year whether there will be a COLA adjustment in December 2010. Below is the actual Social Security explantion for COLA adjustments.

I started collecting SS at age 65 1/2 a few years ago and my payments are now about $2200. a months but am not sure what the max is for people retiring this year. Although it might be possible to live reasonably in Thailand on max US SS benefits, IMHO it would be next to impossible to live with any reasonable degree of comfort in the US if they had to rely only on their SS benefits.

Section 215(i)(1) of the Social Security Act defines the calendar quarters that are to be used in the calculation of a Cost-of-Living Adjustment (COLA). In particular, the Act defines a "cost-of-living computation quarter" to mean a third calendar quarter with respect to which the Consumer Price Index (CPI) has increased relative to the last such quarter. Simply put, this means that, if a COLA becomes effective in any year, the COLA must be greater than zero.

If there is no COLA in one year, how is the next COLA calculated?

Assuming Congress does not intervene by enacting a general benefit increase, the next COLA would become effective in December of the next year that has a third-quarter average CPI greater than the average for the last cost-of-living computation quarter.

For example, because there is no COLA effective for December 2009, the next COLA (2010 or later) will use the average CPI for the last cost-of-living computation quarter—the third quarter of 2008—as the base. That average is 215.495, so any future third-quarter average CPI must exceed 215.495 for that quarter to be a cost-of-living computation quarter. To further illustrate, if the third-quarter average for 2010 were 1.0 percent greater than 215.495, the COLA effective for December 2010 would be 1.0 percent.

[Tejas]

The average retiree in the USA only gets US$1000 - 1100 per month. The odd thing is that would not qualify you to stay in Thailand on, say, a marriage visa.

Here is something for future retirees to contemplate, right from the USA Social Security Administration:

"In 2016 we will begin paying more in benefits than we collect in taxes. Without changes, by 2037 the Social Security Trust Fund will be exhausted."

Just a guess: By pushing low to middle income pensioners out of Thailand, the country is setting itself up for a decline in revenue from from future retirees because they will not be able to meet the constantly rising "pension bar" in Thailand.

In terms of pensioners, the country will become increasingly geriatric with fewer people to replace those dying off.

This will harm the real estate industry, among other industries.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

SS has no credibility in their statements, like the rest of the government they say whatever suits them at the time. I don't think they have ever put SS payments into a SS fund, I believe it all went into the general fund and they used it for day to day government business. Consequently it never had a chance to grow by earning any interest. The government uses new SS payments to pay the SS debt.

It was never meant to provide for retirement for anyone, it is just a supplement to your savings. Unfortunately most people don't bother to save as it would screw up their spend spend life style.

[Penkoprod]

In the last week we have had lots of discussions on the UK pension. I would be interested to know what members from other countries get from there government. The Uk from £96 appx to £184 in my case

That's one hel_l of a spread you got there !!!!! Care to elaborate?

I can understand the lower figure as the lowest basic pension figure, if the required number of years contributions has been attained, but the upper figure baffles me, i must admit.

Penkoprod

[prodriver]

In the last week we have had lots of discussions on the UK pension. I would be interested to know what members from other countries get from there government. The Uk from £96 appx to £184 in my case

That's one hel_l of a spread you got there !!!!! Care to elaborate?

I can understand the lower figure as the lowest basic pension figure, if the required number of years contributions has been attained, but the upper figure baffles me, i must admit.

Penkoprod

Not quite sure why you are baffled by that upper figure quoted.

I received a pension forecast last year from HMR&C that informed me that if I had been 65 by April 2009 (I am only 63 at the moment) my total weekly payment would be £144.14 and my wife could be entitled to up to £57.05 per week based on my NI contributions. This extra payment for the wife will not happen as that will not be available for those that haven't reached the age of 65 by April of this year.

However, if I was already 65, my wife and I could have been receiving a total of £201.19 per week.

[Penkoprod]

In the last week we have had lots of discussions on the UK pension. I would be interested to know what members from other countries get from there government. The Uk from £96 appx to £184 in my case

That's one hel_l of a spread you got there !!!!! Care to elaborate?

I can understand the lower figure as the lowest basic pension figure, if the required number of years contributions has been attained, but the upper figure baffles me, i must admit.

Penkoprod

Not quite sure why you are baffled by that upper figure quoted.

I received a pension forecast last year from HMR&C that informed me that if I had been 65 by April 2009 (I am only 63 at the moment) my total weekly payment would be £144.14 and my wife could be entitled to up to £57.05 per week based on my NI contributions. This extra payment for the wife will not happen as that will not be available for those that haven't reached the age of 65 by April of this year.

However, if I was already 65, my wife and I could have been receiving a total of £201.19 per week.

I'm not quite sure why you answered the question, tbh

The op never mentioned any dependants allowance, so that why i queried it. He probably does mean the dependents allowence, but, as you say anyone who is not 65 by next month misses out

All your reply does is confuse more...you quote different figures that you would get, could get, then DONT get

No disrespect,to you, as i know you were only trying to help, but i think i shall wait for the OP to reply, if thats OK

As a side issue, i notice the pension forecast gateway seems broken, in as much as it just loops the the info page when you hit the "get a pension forecast" link

Penkoprod

[IanForbes]

Canada basically has three pension plans. The old age pension that you start to collect when you reach 65, the Canada pension plan that you pay into each month when you are working, and whatever pension plan (called "superannuation") you have if you work for a company that offers that choice. The old age pension and the Canada pension combined is not enough to live on... at least not in Canada. You CAN live fairly well if you have all three combined, providing you have set yourself up with a paid off home BEFORE you retire.

As someone already stated, people should start a retirement plan when they are still in their twenties. Even a tiny bit saved each month goes a long way. There ARE investment plans that are much more secure than others. Anyone who is self employed MUST do that soon as they start making money. Retirement comes far quicker than you realize.

Of course, it doesn't help if you've made an unwise choice in a marriage partner, who then decides to split after 20 years and take half your assets with her. And, it goes the same way for a working woman who marries a layabout, who then takes half of HER assets when he runs off with a pretty skirt.

The Canadian government also used tax money meant for pensions in a semi-illegal fashion... and squandered a lot of it. Now they are always stealing from Peter to pay Paul. Fortunately, our basic economy is still relatively sound and the Canadian banking system is fairly stable. They didn't go the way of the crooked American bankers with all their hedge funding.

[brianw]

Re my pension I receive the higher rate because sometime ago I could have of opted out of the state system into an other I believed it was called serps? but I was advised to stay in and when I received my pension 2 years ago It was made up of two parts the basic i.e £96 or there abouts and a second part of about £100. I am not exactly sure how it came about but I have no complaints because with the state pension and my old company pension I am receiving nearly the same money as when I was working. ( pity about the tax fresh hold £9500 )

[witold]

I don't think the point of this thread is to get into the weeds of SS. No one here cares whether some American gets 2% adjustment this year or not. The point of this thread is to get a *general* idea what sort of government pensions people in different countries receive, and at what age.

Any other foreign nationals care to share a bit about their countries?

[joe552]

My mother receives €240 per week, plus €25 per week fuel allowance during winter, €40 per month towards electicity bill. Also has free medical, travel, TV license.

[PeaceBlondie]

My point is that there are a whole group of American pensions - national, federal, veterans, SS, SSI, private, state, local, teachers, private, etc. - all called pensions.

[brianw]

What about state pensions from australia newzealand canada south africa and if there are any european union members what about your pension.

[prodriver]

What about state pensions from australia newzealand canada south africa and if there are any european union members what about your pension.

I could give you information about Swedish pensions as I am in receipt of one but I won't. I might be accused of further confusion by Penkoprod who seems to have taken umbrage at me joining in the discussion

Sorry to have confused you Mr P

[Penkoprod]

What about state pensions from australia newzealand canada south africa and if there are any european union members what about your pension.

I could give you information about Swedish pensions as I am in receipt of one but I won't. I might be accused of further confusion by Penkoprod who seems to have taken umbrage at me joining in the discussion

Sorry to have confused you Mr P

Dont mention it !!!!!!

Now that the matter has been clarified by the OP, rather than muddied by spurious info overload, you have my full permission to post what you want

Penkoprod

[prodriver]

I would have left it at this stage and moved on but for your word usage 'spurious info overload'.

The information I gave was certainly not spurious. It was taken from the letter I mentioned that I had received from HMR&C.

Quoting from letter "Your National Insurance contribution record up to 5 April 2009 shows that you have 30 qualifying years, giving you the full amount. Total weekly pension earned to 5 April 2009 £144.14.

As your dependant, your wife could get up to £57.05 from your National Insurance contributions...."

Maybe you don't know what spurious actually means in which case I suggest you stick to words you do know the meaning of and by doing so, it may cut down on your confusion.

'info overload'....well, we all have our personal threshold. It appears that yours is fairly low as I was merely illustrating that the upper figure that the OP stated was easily achievable under the right circumstances.

I hope we can now lay the matter to rest