How To Pronounce Thai Consonants And Vowels

[HappyInCM]

Anyone have any good resources for this? I of course have recordings of native speakers going over the alphabet and vowels and courage interactive's SW for reading.

But, something that tells you exact placement of tongue, teeth, aspiration, ... for each letter and vowel would be really great.

So far, I've found:

Stuart Raj's consonant map of the mouth: http://stujay.blogspot.com/2009/01/wadafra...stuart-jay.html

I'm going to start with a new teacher just going over the alphabet and vowels to try to improve but other material would be very useful.

thanks.

[bankruatsteve]

Take a look at Thai2English.com . There's others but I like that one. There's an "Articles" section that describes how to pronouce. I bought the download version but I think it's free also.

Cheers

[Puschl]

Sorry that I can't provide any help, but I'd like to thank you for posting the link above. (Actually the author has temporarily moved the chart here to TV: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a91463-...sonant-Map.html ). Organized in this way, the Thai alphabet order makes so much sense, and the distribution of high, mid and low class consonants suddenly no longer appears random. I wish I had seen that chart earlier, and I wish somebody had told me that this chart fits my way of learning very well.

http://www.thai-language.com/ref/phonetic-...tion-consonants provides a similar (and comprehensive) table, but puts the emphasis on tone classes rather than the phonetic structure (there are row and column headers, but without further explanation).

Now I also share your question: are the Retroflexes and the Dentals really formed differently - as the name suggests (Retroflex / Cerebrals: Tongue rolled backwards, Dentals: tongue touching teeth) - or is the distinction made only for historic reasons. I always thought that ฎ/ด ฏ/ต ฐ/ถ etc. were outright equivalent.

[desi]

Flashcards that fit your request are available at howtolearnthai.com

Visual tone graphs indicating frequency and duration of tones (acoustic phonetics)

Final sound and live-dead consonant indicators

Mouth position using Sammy diagrams of the manner and place of articulation (articulatory phonetics)

Stu's Consonant Map and Indic Script Consonant Compass can also be downloaded from Thai Language Cheat Sheets

[meadish_sweetball]

Sorry that I can't provide any help, but I'd like to thank you for posting the link above. (Actually the author has temporarily moved the chart here to TV: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a91463-...sonant-Map.html ). Organized in this way, the Thai alphabet order makes so much sense, and the distribution of high, mid and low class consonants suddenly no longer appears random. I wish I had seen that chart earlier, and I wish somebody had told me that this chart fits my way of learning very well.

http://www.thai-language.com/ref/phonetic-...tion-consonants provides a similar (and comprehensive) table, but puts the emphasis on tone classes rather than the phonetic structure (there are row and column headers, but without further explanation).

Now I also share your question: are the Retroflexes and the Dentals really formed differently - as the name suggests (Retroflex / Cerebrals: Tongue rolled backwards, Dentals: tongue touching teeth) - or is the distinction made only for historic reasons. I always thought that ฎ/ด ฏ/ต ฐ/ถ etc. were outright equivalent.

They are equivalent. There are no retroflex sounds in the Thai context.

[Richard W]

Having given up on maintaining Thai alphabetical order, I think Stu's chart should have had fricative columns rather than a sibilant column. Of course, that raises the issue of whether to place ฃ and ฅ by their old phonetic values (fricative) or their ultimate value (aspirated stops). Incidentally, Stu's ** note is wrong - the ค ช ฑ ท พ column comes from old voiced stops.

Note that all four /s/ sounds are pronounced the same - none is palatal in Thai.

'Guttural' is not a particularly useful 'place' of articulation - both English and Thai subdivide it into velar and glottal.

[Jay_Jay]

Hi all,

Was just given a heads up on this thread, so thought I might jump in quickly.

The Thai consonant chart that the link has been made to here was actually an extension of another project I was working on last year. I was trying to develop a single system that I could use to teach people who had a grounding in one language that had a writing system based on the Indic sound system, to learn another script within an hour or so.

You can download the original Indic Consonant Compass here:

http://uniscript.org/var/import/Stu%20Jay%...20SE%20Asia.pdf

The following is taken from my original article about the compass:

There were so many languages to choose from. I broke this chart down to 8 scripts that I think would cover a good portion of the globe. The languages / scripts with my reasoning for choosing them are:

Language

Reason

Devanagari

* Devanagari is used to write a slew of Indic languages including Hindi, Marathi, Nepali and has also become the standard that Sanskrit is rendered in – although Sanskrit writings can commonly be found in local scripts like Tamil, Sinhalese, Burmese, Thai, Khmer, Balinese etc.

* Given Devanagari's popularity and the fact that it has letters to represent each of the base sounds, I chose it as the base script.

Tamil

* Tamil is not only popular in India, Sri Lanka and other surrounding countries, but it is also very widely spoken in Singapore and Malaysia (even reaching official language status in Singapore)

* Given that I am in Southeast Asia, I wanted to develop this chart in particular to help as bigger cross section of the SE Asian community as possible. I think it would be great if this chart could spur people living in countries where Tamil is prevalent to have a go at learning the script. It will open up a whole new world around them.

* Another reason that I chose Tamil is that it is from the Dravdian stream of languages – and is indeed a very ancient script. You will notice that it's different from the other scripts in the chart in that there are very few base letters. The natural rules that govern how sounds change when preceding / followed by another letter will 'colour' the letter to give it different sounds – Sandhi. – E.g. in English – 'What did you do' is pronounced 'wo dije du' (very rough transliteration without IPA fonts!)

* Tamil is the 'What did you do' version where the others are more the 'wo dije du' versions.

Panjabi

* This is the Gurmukhi script used to write Panjabi. There are many Panjabi speakers all over Southeast Asia, so I thought it would be nice to include this script. In Thailand, there are many Thai born Indians that speak Panjabi at home, but cannot read the Gurmukhi script. Now with this comparison chart, I hope that the links to Thai can be made and again, spur some people that otherwise wouldn't onto learning the script … which will in turn open a new world up in the area of literature, religion, culture and getting in the good-books with Grandma and Grandpa!

Burmese

* Another SE Asian Language. There are fascinating things that happen phonetically with Burmese. I have really been getting into learning Burmese lately and am loving every minute of it. The script is very easy to learn once you have one of the other scripts down – and understanding what's going on phonetically vs. script will go a long way to help you start to get the language 'into your body'.

* There are also many Burmese in Thailand that cannot read or write Thai. Given the right guidance, it shouldn't take more than a few hours for Burmese who have lived in Thailand for any amount of time to start to link the Burmese and Thai Scripts together and open their eyes up to even more of the world around them.

Balinese

* Balinese is a beautiful script… not that the others aren't! Sadly, it's a dying art in Indonesia. While 'Bahasa Daerah' – regional languages are taught in Primary school, I have found very small percentage of people that are really proficient at reading and writing Balinese. Hopefully this will help a resurgence J

* Another reason that I've included both Balinese and Javanese is so that Balinese and Javanese speakers can see the similarities in the scripts! In my humble opinion, the two scripts are basically different fonts of the same script. While Balinese is very fluid and has more of an 'ancient free' feel, Javanese is more 'boxy' and looks more suitable for machine printed media.

Javanese

* I love Javanese – and part of the language of course is the script.

* Apart from that, I have pretty much the same reasoning for including Javanese as I did Balinese.

Thai

* After having taught Thai for many years, the Script still takes the number one position for learners' 'obstacles in learning Thai'. I have put this together as one more aid for demystifying the script and in doing so, helping learners of Thai get over a big hurdle.

* I wrote a post a couple of years ago that was a Fast-track guide for Indians to Learn Thai. This chart could be thought of as an upgrade to that to Indians living, working or looking at coming to Thailand.

* Once you get this structure down in you subconscious, tone rules will become second nature!... it's built into the system!

Khmer

* Being a neighbour to Thailand, much of Thailand's language, culture and customs have flowed from similar streams as Cambodia.

* Just take a look at any temple in Thailand, or on the roof of most Taxis driving around Bangkok, you'll often see Sanskrit and Pali writings in the Mon / Khmer script. Despite this, very few Thais can read the script.

* Just like the tone rules for Thai are part and parcel of this 5x5 structure, so too are the 'consonant classes' of Cambodian. Where the Mid and High classes for Thai are the first and second rows + the 'h', sibilants and base throat, the Cambodian 'oo' and 'oa' classes are broken down almost identically.

* This is my little effort in 'bridging the gap'

The Thai ONLY version of the chart came quite some time after thanks to my friend and student Peter Larsen. Peter is a Danish graphic designer in Bangkok and thought he wanted take the 'noise' out of my original chart and just focus on the Thai. That chart was designed for people who had already been taught through the original complete table and understood the sound structure of Devanagari.

I used the 'Korean Looking Glyphs' as a base writing structure for non-Indic script language speakers. This is taken from my original post explaining why I did it the way I did.

The Cardinal Points of the Mouth

As you read through the brief explanation to each of the following glyphs, place your tongue / mouth in the position and hold it there. Once you can do it for each glyph, move your gaze from one glyph to another at random and practice locking your mouth into the correct position according to the glyph that you're looking at.

Drilling yourself for about 2 minutes like this should be enough to start to develop some long lasting muscle memory.

Gutteral

Palatal

Cerebral

Dental

Labial

Back of the throat

Flattened Tongue on the Roof of the Mouth (Palate)

Rolled Back (Retroflex) Tongue on the Roof of the Mouth

Tongue on Teeth

Lips

대한민국! (Dae Han Min Kuk!)

Now, I know the Korean speakers out there must be thinking "Hmmm… some these symbols seem eerily familiar!".

Koreans are very proud of their writing system 'Han Geul' – 한 글 .. . and so they should be. Developed by King Sejong the Great (1418-1450) in 1444, it is one of the easiest scripts to learn on the planet! (I learned it on a bus ride across Seoul one sunny afternoon in 1996 ).

To add value to learning the Korean alphabet, I suggest spending an extra 10 minutes to learn how to touch type in Korean also. The keys are very logically set out between:

* Left hand: Consonants

* Right hand: Vowels

Each syllable in Han Geul is broken into a beginning (initial) sound, vowel and final sound component (if necessary). The symbols used to represent each of the sounds were based on the various parts of the mouth from which they were produced.

Korea Meets India

I have combined this principle with the basic principle of the Indic Scripts 'Map of the Mouth' logic to develop my own symbols.

It's interesting to note that the sound for 'r' / 'l' in Korean is uncannily similar to many of the symbols used to represent these same sounds in Indic (Brahmi) based scripts that display a 'rolling tongue' in one rendering or another. When I'm learning a new Indic script, this is actually one of the first memory points I will look for – I will peg the similarity or difference of its 'r' sound to the ones that I already know. I can't include all the samples in this text based medium as the fonts probably won't render properly on your computer. You can see them on the main 'Indic Consonant Compass' chart though.

Another shape that is very similar include the 'base voice' symbol which in many scripts is a circular shape of some sort.

The 'y' symbol which in Korean is normally 'two prongs' heading in the vowel direction. In the Indic scripts, the 'y' sound is usual a 2 or 3 pronged shape which I imagine is a representation of the way the tongue interacts with the palate.

Here is a sample:

Comparison of Similar Sound Shapes in Korean, Devanagari, Thai, Tamil and Gurmukhi (Panjabi)

Sound

Korean

Devanagari

Thai

Tamil

Gurmukhi

r

ㄹ

र

ร

ர

ਰ

ya

야

य

ย

ய

ਯ

The Key Actions of the Mouth

Stopped Throat

Aspirated

Voiced

Voiced Aspirated

Nasal

Consonant Starts with the Throat Closed

Throat opens and puffs air or a 'h' sound over the consonant. In some languages, the 'h' isn't as accented as others

Voice Resonates Over the Consonant

Voice Resonates Over the Consonant AND puffs air over the consonant (which opens the throat)

Sound is Directed Through the Nose

Semi Vowel

Sibilant

'H' Aspirate

Voice Base

Not Quite a Consonant Not Quite a Vowel –

Letters in this category are 'fluid' versions where 'full contanct' isn't really made with the 'cardinal point'. Think of it in English – is 'y' REALLY a consonant? (despite what your teachers told you)... or is it a vowel?

'S' Hissing Sound

'H' Sound

Open Throat

Root Symbol that Signifies the Voicebox

Colour Coding

I have also colour coded each category within the sound system to give a colourful representation of the textual glyph. There are 5 base colours that correspond to each of the 5 cardinal points of the mouth (see above).

When comparing the sound shifts from the original base letter to the target language letter, you can either follow the 'glyph' transliterations in the octagon adjacent the target letter, or just look at the colour changes. Getting a visual and emotional representation of these sound shifts through colour is another device that I find really useful in 'embedding' the language within me.

I hope that this can be useful to Thaivisa learners out there and thank you for your suggestions for improving it!

STu.

[Richard W]

I hope that this can be useful to Thaivisa learners out there and thank you for your suggestions for improving it!

I still think you should consider expanding beyond 5 by 5 when there are extra vargas (e.g. Tamil, Tibetan) or orders (non-Shan Tai scripts - Thai, Lao, Tham; Sinhalese (if you accept the prenasalised order); Cham). Even Devanagari (or to get back to the basic, Brahmi) has two unofficial orders (semivowel and sibilant) in most of the vargas, and it's interesting to compare how Devanagari nukta forms compare to Thai additions. Meanwhile, you forgot the retroflex lateral (LLA - Thai ฬ) - it's used for Vedic Sanskrit as well as Pali, so you can't properly ignore it, even though it fouls up the symmetry.

[Jay_Jay]

I hope that this can be useful to Thaivisa learners out there and thank you for your suggestions for improving it!

I still think you should consider expanding beyond 5 by 5 when there are extra vargas (e.g. Tamil, Tibetan) or orders (non-Shan Tai scripts - Thai, Lao, Tham; Sinhalese (if you accept the prenasalised order); Cham). Even Devanagari (or to get back to the basic, Brahmi) has two unofficial orders (semivowel and sibilant) in most of the vargas, and it's interesting to compare how Devanagari nukta forms compare to Thai additions. Meanwhile, you forgot the retroflex lateral (LLA - Thai ฬ) - it's used for Vedic Sanskrit as well as Pali, so you can't properly ignore it, even though it fouls up the symmetry.

I hear you Richard. I was torn between being linguistically accurate / comprehensive and providing the basic structure for people that don't have the same love for linguistics that we have so that they can quickly conceptualize it and understand why certain things are the way they are - Consonant Classes etc. When I'm teaching, I like to put the vargas to music / rhythm and programme them into people's subconscious. The asymmetry that ฬ causes doesn't make it impossible, but a little more awkward. I opted to comment on ฬ and other letters like ฃ ฅ once the basic framework is down.

That said, it would be nice to put a full one together

Edited March 29, 2010 by Jay_Jay

[SoftWater]

@Stu

Good lord, what a fascinating piece of work, and many thanks for offering it up free. I've always struggled to understand these concepts 'labial' 'cerebral' and so on, but admittedly I probably have not put enough work in.

My Thai pronunciation is poor - the faster I speak the poorer it becomes, which is frustrating because I am starting to get to a level of fluency where I can speak nearly as fast as I think, but if I go that fast, it sounds like gibberish to all but me!

Given all that, my question is will putting the effort in to get my heard round all this 'palatal' 'labial' stuff really turn my pronunciation into something comprehensible?

After six years of listening input, I don't believe the 'osmosis' method of eventually sounding natural by merely listening is working.

[Jay_Jay]

@Stu

Good lord, what a fascinating piece of work, and many thanks for offering it up free. I've always struggled to understand these concepts 'labial' 'cerebral' and so on, but admittedly I probably have not put enough work in.

My Thai pronunciation is poor - the faster I speak the poorer it becomes, which is frustrating because I am starting to get to a level of fluency where I can speak nearly as fast as I think, but if I go that fast, it sounds like gibberish to all but me!

Given all that, my question is will putting the effort in to get my heard round all this 'palatal' 'labial' stuff really turn my pronunciation into something comprehensible?

After six years of listening input, I don't believe the 'osmosis' method of eventually sounding natural by merely listening is working.

The 'cerebral' aren't there in Thai - you can see what they changed into in the chart. Following in the spirit of the development of Hangeul (Korean writing system), I tried to make the glyphs represent the positions of the mouth.

In my classes, I will have students sit there for 30sec to a minute at a time just focusing on the glyph for the particular part of the mouth and get the placement right - then drill them by pointing to different places in on the chart and having their mouth follow. It's like learning to play a musical instrument. Playing piano, you can get away with messy fingering, but when the pedal hits the metal, bad fingering is going to cause you to jam up and make errors. Tones aren't just pitch - they're throat positions / different articulation variables.

Open some youtube clips of people speaking Thai. Isolate a few phrases at a time and try and copy them - their facial expressions, breathing, emotion etc. Don't try and break down each word that you're saying, or try and pronounce it with the individual tones that you think they're supposed to be and don't try and analyse / break down the exact meaning at first. Just mimic them verbatim.

If you do this for 15 mins everyday I'm sure your fluency / intelligibility will pick up. To test yourself, go and try it out on people that don't know you. If you speak to them and they don't bat an eyelid and just speak normally back to you, you know you're making progress. I find that for many of my students, the people that are closest to them can sometimes be the biggest demotivator in learning. Because they've been there from the 'beginning' of their Thai learning experience, they tend to expect the worst and try and pick up on the slightest mistake... sometimes even when there aren't really mistakes because they're not used to the students NOT making mistakes.

Another good thing to do is to go into Thai web-boards / chat rooms and analyse the way people type in slang ... and try and re-produce it. Better still, sit with a Thai friend and have them read the posts to you. This way, they're forced not to teach you the 'Farang' Thai. You can hear the slang / inflections / idioms in context and start building up a more natural sounding arsenal of sound-bites.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thanks for sharing your ideas, Stu. Excellent suggestions for achieving a more natural style of speaking.