Recording Every Interview

[phetpeter]

I have suffered as have many others, for many reasons and from the failure of staff to follow the same guidelines and requirements. They have caused, and used personal feelings to make life differcult, have ordered additional requirements, made people return several times to show they have that power!

And people find no decent avenue for complaints or redress.

I would suggest that this could be stopped by having every interview recorded by video and mic, and if the customer is unhappy, he can have a copy of the interview (payment required if it is not download on to his own device). If he is happy it can be offered to be kept by immigation for trainingg purposes (or skills review) or deleted (say after 7 days, time enough for change of heart!).

The customer can insist on the camera running or can on camera ask for the interview not to be recorded, A bit like a metered taxi. meter on or meter off.

I am sure those who wish to continue being 'clever' can still work under the desk! but, for the rest of us perhaps we would be happy to know we would have a safety net for complaints and a set standard of service and requirements.

Who could get them interested and what do you think? I have started the request by emailing an edited version of this message to Bangkok.

Edited March 29, 2010 by peterandcat

[Colabamumbai]

I think that it may be a good Idea yet I don't know if immigration in Thailand would be ready for your progressive thinking.

[phetpeter]

I understand that Thailand has a strong commitment to equal rights...But.. noone uses it. Most people decide to rely on suck it and see attitude.

Hands up! Would you let staff in your own country treat you the same way? Of course you would want some form of witness to your dealings, to make sure you have been treated fairly and honestly.

It is no good just sitting back and stating that it will all change again next time.

Sure we should... and this time I wish I had! try to keep our mouths shut until the stamp is done. and I have been doing the stamp now for 8 years non-stop and with 6 years working.

If you have had the time to read this then you have the time to write to Immigation on their website and express your views and suggestions.

Edited March 29, 2010 by peterandcat

[Tod Daniels]

I know the same cannot be said for the various and sundry other thai immigrations offices open around the country which are run much more autonomously BUT, it has been my experience that most ALL of the procedures one is likely to run into out at Changwattana are fairly straightforward and without any of the peril (or is that paranoia? ) you seem to think exists.

The visa rules are not difficult to understand or follow. True, it takes some research time on the internet, a great deal of common sense, and a TON of patience. Unfortunately, come up short on any of the above mentioned ingredients and you could be setting yourself up for trouble.

You say you've been "doing the stamp now for 8 years non-stop and with 6 years working" (what ever that actually translates as); certainly in that vast amount of time you’ve learned a smattering of thai-etiquette in dealing with anything remotely associated to thai governmental bureaucracy. Your "stamps" should be nothing more than a time waster in so far as collecting the proper documentation, filling out the proper form, and going to the correct location and counter to process your extension.

Would you let staff in your own country treat you the same way?

Sadly for you obviously 'peterandcat', look around, you're NOT in your own country, so if you would or wouldn’t stand for the same treatment there has little relevance in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". In plain and simple engrish; like it or not, whilst here you must follow their rules. Trying to force a thai immigration official's hand is akin to juggling chainsaws . They can and often do ask for documents which are not technically required, but as each visa extension is processed at the discretion of the interviewing officer, there is a LOT of latitude in their job.

If you truly are as paranoid as this post leads me to believe; buy a small pocket recorder and tape your interviews discretely. Wait; didn’t you post this very same hare-brained idea a few days ago when you were arguing with far more learned posters about the 400K of funds required for an extension of stay based on marriage being in your account and NOT as you professed in a joint account? Weren't you going to write a detailed letter of complaint to thai immigrations outlining the incredibly ill treatment you received? How'd that work out for ya?

I think you like most foreigners living here over estimate their own self importance in the grand scheme of all things whacky and wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Edited to add: that I actually read and took time to respond to this thread, makes me nearly ill

Edited March 29, 2010 by tod-daniels

[ljerams]

I think a better idea would be for Immigration to have a senior person available to exercise discretion when it is needed or in marginal cases.

We hear of various issues where the Applicants don't know the rules and also some where the rules have been interpreted incorrectly by the Staff at Immigration.

If a case could be immediately referred to a Senior Supervisor to make a decision I think many of these problems would be eliminated.

[Soutpeel]

I think you like most foreigners living here over estimate their own self importance in the grand scheme of all things whacky and wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

...so very true...

Back on to topic and allow me to ask this question ?....When a Thai national does an interview for say a British visa are the proceedings taped ??....I am asking the question as I dont know....but would suspect they do not, so with that in mind, if one of the most PC bullsh*t countires in the doesnt do it, <deleted> would Thai Immigration do it for ?....because a Farang thinks he has been hard done by and is demanding his "democratic " right in a country where he /she has no rights to start with

sounds all rather old colonial to me...

[learningcurve]

I think you like most foreigners living here over estimate their own self importance in the grand scheme of all things whacky and wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

...so very true...

Back on to topic and allow me to ask this question ?....When a Thai national does an interview for say a British visa are the proceedings taped ??....I am asking the question as I dont know....but would suspect they do not, so with that in mind, if one of the most PC bullsh*t countires in the doesnt do it, <deleted> would Thai Immigration do it for ?....because a Farang thinks he has been hard done by and is demanding his "democratic " right in a country where he /she has no rights to start with

sounds all rather old colonial to me...

When a Thai National is interviewed for a British Visa the interview is recorded. You can also request a transcript of the interview if required, for say an appeal.

[WarpSpeed]

I think you like most foreigners living here over estimate their own self importance in the grand scheme of all things whacky and wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

...so very true...

Back on to topic and allow me to ask this question ?....When a Thai national does an interview for say a British visa are the proceedings taped ??....I am asking the question as I dont know....but would suspect they do not, so with that in mind, if one of the most PC bullsh*t countires in the doesnt do it, <deleted> would Thai Immigration do it for ?....because a Farang thinks he has been hard done by and is demanding his "democratic " right in a country where he /she has no rights to start with

sounds all rather old colonial to me...

I'd also suggest that the goal post in western countries don't move quite as much nor as often as they do here from office to office..

[phetaroi]

I know the same cannot be said for the various and sundry other thai immigrations offices open around the country which are run much more autonomously BUT, it has been my experience that most ALL of the procedures one is likely to run into out at Changwattana are fairly straightforward and without any of the peril (or is that paranoia? ) you seem to think exists.

The visa rules are not difficult to understand or follow. True, it takes some research time on the internet, a great deal of common sense, and a TON of patience. Unfortunately, come up short on any of the above mentioned ingredients and you could be setting yourself up for trouble.

You say you've been "doing the stamp now for 8 years non-stop and with 6 years working" (what ever that actually translates as); certainly in that vast amount of time you’ve learned a smattering of thai-etiquette in dealing with anything remotely associated to thai governmental bureaucracy. Your "stamps" should be nothing more than a time waster in so far as collecting the proper documentation, filling out the proper form, and going to the correct location and counter to process your extension.

you would or wouldn’t stand for the same treatment there has little relevance in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". In plain and simple engrish; like it or not, whilst here you must follow their rules. Trying to force a thai immigration official's hand is akin to juggling chainsaws . They can and often do ask for documents which are not technically required, but as each visa extension is processed at the discretion of the interviewing officer, there is a LOT of latitude in their job.

I think you like most foreigners living here over estimate their own self importance in the grand scheme of all things whacky and wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Todd, you said it all much better than I could have...just wanted to post my agreement with you.

I'm not sure which country the OP is from, but I'll assume it's the States. Has he actually been to the DMV in almost any state of US recently? Try it. Anytime I had to do so, I knew it would be a half-day spent. On the other hand, here, it took me all of an hour to get my first driver's license.

Everything in Thailand isn't wonderful, and most of us know that. It's a question of balancing what irks you with what you love about the place. When the irks out balance the loves, it's time to go home.

And to the OP, I'll remind you that for every burden that's placed on us, I seem to find another situation when something is overlooked with a smile or a wink or a nod. Not so in the States, where every rule and law seems to have to be followed to the letter.

[phetaroi]

I think a better idea would be for Immigration to have a senior person available to exercise discretion when it is needed or in marginal cases.

We hear of various issues where the Applicants don't know the rules and also some where the rules have been interpreted incorrectly by the Staff at Immigration.

If a case could be immediately referred to a Senior Supervisor to make a decision I think many of these problems would be eliminated.

Now THIS is a great idea!

[phetpeter]

I think a better idea would be for Immigration to have a senior person available to exercise discretion when it is needed or in marginal cases.

We hear of various issues where the Applicants don't know the rules and also some where the rules have been interpreted incorrectly by the Staff at Immigration.

If a case could be immediately referred to a Senior Supervisor to make a decision I think many of these problems would be eliminated.

Now THIS is a great idea!

Are you certain every office can support a senior supervisor??

A great idea would and was good in Bangkok, but, in these small offices are you sure you would have the recourse?

I think the 'goalposts' have not changed alot, but the recuitment and training of these new 'outposts' leave us all at the mercy of these officers.

True until having to move to the 'sticks' no problems.

Its not that I am bitter and twisted, it is purely because the new office decided that everybody has to start from day one for extensions rather than request paperwork from central office or check out everything on computer.(That would cock up anybody wanting residence)

Please don't make me choke! by saying this is Thailand and things work different..we are aware of the ladder system in Thailand and the fear of making a mistake.

I don't even think I am more important than the average Thai, but I fulfil all the legal requirements and pay my tax and SS.

You are right , and now I have to do a fifth trip with the village head. Why? because of her personel dislike of me. why? Because on her advice, I returned with letters of recommendations from various high ranking officals as to my good services to the local communities within which comments were made in relation to her appologies for the other officers screaming fit at me for turning up 10 days early.(and before you ask , I popped in because I was doing some business in the area)

But that aside everybody has a different problem and most will follow the guidelines to the requirements and as stated it the extra information that causes most problems. because no reasons are given and no discussions entered into.

What we should be after is not a slanging match but uniform system that is overseen by a VDO perhaps that then can be refered to the 'head office/ senior supervisor" in a sterile office away from lunch time gang at the local office.

Thailand is quite modern and most government offices love new things. look at the ID cards , the driver licence office the social sercuity office, passport department and the government hospital all use some form of VDO recording systems.

As to me recording the conversation...Thanks.. hind sight blah blah

[phetpeter]

I know the same cannot be said for the various and sundry other thai immigrations offices open around the country which are run much more autonomously BUT, it has been my experience that most ALL of the procedures one is likely to run into out at Changwattana are fairly straightforward and without any of the peril (or is that paranoia? ) you seem to think exists.

The visa rules are not difficult to understand or follow. True, it takes some research time on the internet, a great deal of common sense, and a TON of patience. Unfortunately, come up short on any of the above mentioned ingredients and you could be setting yourself up for trouble.

You say you've been "doing the stamp now for 8 years non-stop and with 6 years working" (what ever that actually translates as); certainly in that vast amount of time you've learned a smattering of thai-etiquette in dealing with anything remotely associated to thai governmental bureaucracy. Your "stamps" should be nothing more than a time waster in so far as collecting the proper documentation, filling out the proper form, and going to the correct location and counter to process your extension.

Would you let staff in your own country treat you the same way?

Sadly for you obviously 'peterandcat', look around, you're NOT in your own country, so if you would or wouldn't stand for the same treatment there has little relevance in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". In plain and simple engrish; like it or not, whilst here you must follow their rules. Trying to force a thai immigration official's hand is akin to juggling chainsaws . They can and often do ask for documents which are not technically required, but as each visa extension is processed at the discretion of the interviewing officer, there is a LOT of latitude in their job.

If you truly are as paranoid as this post leads me to believe; buy a small pocket recorder and tape your interviews discretely. Wait; didn't you post this very same hare-brained idea a few days ago when you were arguing with far more learned posters about the 400K of funds required for an extension of stay based on marriage being in your account and NOT as you professed in a joint account? Weren't you going to write a detailed letter of complaint to thai immigrations outlining the incredibly ill treatment you received? How'd that work out for ya?

I think you like most foreigners living here over estimate their own self importance in the grand scheme of all things whacky and wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Edited to add: that I actually read and took time to respond to this thread, makes me nearly ill

Why do you think it is hare-brained? Do you do it yourself or do you have someone run over and get the paperwork done for you?

Ask others from outside of BK, why they are ordered to turn up at the outpost for their 90 day?

You are correct BKK was ideal everything and everybody in the same place. For me never a problem, Please come and join us out here, Please come and see if it is so easy. By the way I turn up twearing trousers and a shirt and a pair of shoes. I don't smell of beer or smoke.

I speak Thai quite well and understand alot.

I'm not bitter as the trip allows my wife and me to have a nice lunch and a bit better shopping for the day.

As to the joint account thing! yes ,I have written a letter to find out where I can read the offical statement on bank accounts.

Edited March 29, 2010 by peterandcat

[phetaroi]

I think a better idea would be for Immigration to have a senior person available to exercise discretion when it is needed or in marginal cases.

We hear of various issues where the Applicants don't know the rules and also some where the rules have been interpreted incorrectly by the Staff at Immigration.

If a case could be immediately referred to a Senior Supervisor to make a decision I think many of these problems would be eliminated.

Now THIS is a great idea!

Are you certain every office can support a senior supervisor??

No, every office probably couldn't, and "appeals" could go on to Bangkok.

[phetpeter]

I think a better idea would be for Immigration to have a senior person available to exercise discretion when it is needed or in marginal cases.

We hear of various issues where the Applicants don't know the rules and also some where the rules have been interpreted incorrectly by the Staff at Immigration.

If a case could be immediately referred to a Senior Supervisor to make a decision I think many of these problems would be eliminated.

Now THIS is a great idea!

Are you certain every office can support a senior supervisor??

No, every office probably couldn't, and "appeals" could go on to Bangkok.

And how would you be able to appeal a vebal or personal issuse without a witness, assuming your spouse (Thai) could or would stand up and stand by you against the person(s) in uniform? Whereas an all seeing and hearing unbaise VDO would stop problems developing from both parties. Yes! I do understand well that 75% problems occur from our side of the counter, and part of that occurs from the extra requests from the other side, with out a explain reason and seemly at the wim of the officer involved.

[phetaroi]

And how would you be able to appeal a vebal or personal issuse without a witness, assuming your spouse (Thai) could or would stand up and stand by you against the person(s) in uniform? Whereas an all seeing and hearing unbaise VDO would stop problems developing from both parties. Yes! I do understand well that 75% problems occur from our side of the counter, and part of that occurs from the extra requests from the other side, with out a explain reason and seemly at the wim of the officer involved.

If you're "denied" something you're entitled to legally, you take all your papers with you to the higher authority for review.

I also want to go back to your first post. You said you have suffered. Have you "suffered" or "been inconvenienced"?

[phetpeter]

And how would you be able to appeal a vebal or personal issuse without a witness, assuming your spouse (Thai) could or would stand up and stand by you against the person(s) in uniform? Whereas an all seeing and hearing unbaise VDO would stop problems developing from both parties. Yes! I do understand well that 75% problems occur from our side of the counter, and part of that occurs from the extra requests from the other side, with out a explain reason and seemly at the wim of the officer involved.

If you're "denied" something you're entitled to legally, you take all your papers with you to the higher authority for review.

I also want to go back to your first post. You said you have suffered. Have you "suffered" or "been inconvenienced"?

suffer [ˈsʌfə] vb 1. to undergo or be subjected to (pain, punishment, etc.)2. (tr) to undergo or experience (anything) to suffer a change of management3. (intr) to be set at a disadvantage this author suffers in translation4. to be prepared to endure (pain, death, etc.) he suffers for the cause of freedom5. (tr) Archaic to permit (someone to do something) suffer the little children to come unto me I think 1,2,3 and 5 will do.

You take your papers to a higher ....again writers have been told to go to their local outpost...so..how will that help?

So it will mean a trip to BKK or Chang up north there somewhere. with just your hearsay. 1000baht says I know what they will say?

and inbetween does it mean you may have to pop out of the country?

Sure its far from perfect, and we all have to roll with the punches, and I for one will never pay tea money. but could we all not ask for changes for the better?

Instead of putting up with it once a year and hope next time will be better!

[phetpeter]

I know the same cannot be said for the various and sundry other thai immigrations offices open around the country which are run much more autonomously BUT, it has been my experience that most ALL of the procedures one is likely to run into out at Changwattana are fairly straightforward and without any of the peril (or is that paranoia? ) you seem to think exists.

The visa rules are not difficult to understand or follow. True, it takes some research time on the internet, a great deal of common sense, and a TON of patience. Unfortunately, come up short on any of the above mentioned ingredients and you could be setting yourself up for trouble.

You say you've been "doing the stamp now for 8 years non-stop and with 6 years working" (what ever that actually translates as); certainly in that vast amount of time you've learned a smattering of thai-etiquette in dealing with anything remotely associated to thai governmental bureaucracy. Your "stamps" should be nothing more than a time waster in so far as collecting the proper documentation, filling out the proper form, and going to the correct location and counter to process your extension.

you would or wouldn't stand for the same treatment there has little relevance in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". In plain and simple engrish; like it or not, whilst here you must follow their rules. Trying to force a thai immigration official's hand is akin to juggling chainsaws . They can and often do ask for documents which are not technically required, but as each visa extension is processed at the discretion of the interviewing officer, there is a LOT of latitude in their job.

I think you like most foreigners living here over estimate their own self importance in the grand scheme of all things whacky and wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Todd, you said it all much better than I could have...just wanted to post my agreement with you.

I'm not sure which country the OP is from, but I'll assume it's the States. Has he actually been to the DMV in almost any state of US recently? Try it. Anytime I had to do so, I knew it would be a half-day spent. On the other hand, here, it took me all of an hour to get my first driver's license.

Everything in Thailand isn't wonderful, and most of us know that. It's a question of balancing what irks you with what you love about the place. When the irks out balance the loves, it's time to go home.

And to the OP, I'll remind you that for every burden that's placed on us, I seem to find another situation when something is overlooked with a smile or a wink or a nod. Not so in the States, where every rule and law seems to have to be followed to the letter.

I'm sorry but i'm British, Can't you tell from the spelling mistakes?

[phetaroi]

Well, I guess you'll have to continue to "suffer", because they sure aren't going to be letting you video tape everything.

[Maestro]

…As to the joint account thing! yes ,I have written a letter to find out where I can read the offical statement on bank accounts.

You can read the official statement about the bank accounts in Royal Thai Police Order No. 777/2551, which was posted on the website of the Immigration Bureau and which has been uploaded here for the convenience of ThaiVisa members:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a70478-.html

For the extension to live with Thai wife, read เหตุเเห่งความจําเป็น 2.18, หลักเกฌฑ์การพิจารถเา (6)

--

Maestro

[phetpeter]

…As to the joint account thing! yes ,I have written a letter to find out where I can read the offical statement on bank accounts.

You can read the official statement about the bank accounts in Royal Thai Police Order No. 777/2551, which was posted on the website of the Immigration Bureau and which has been uploaded here for the convenience of ThaiVisa members:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a70478-.html

For the extension to live with Thai wife, read เหตุเเห่งความจําเป็น 2.18, หลักเกฌฑ์การพิจารถเา (6)

--

Maestro

I have read and hold copies both in Thai and English.

777/2551 was issued on November 25th 2008, and became effective from that date.

But why is it that I have not been asked for this new detail until the 2nd renewal? But then I am not sure they asked for it?

I quote that the order is "or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year"

No mention of spouse name only just THAI bank.

Again where is that written order for spouse named account only?

Edited March 31, 2010 by peterandcat

[Tod Daniels]

Still bangin’ your head against the wall on this one point, are ya?

I think where’re your running amok is the engrish translation. In thai it clearly translates into engrish as saying; In the case of marriage to a thai woman the foreign husband’s (and it uses the thai word ฝ่าย) which is translates as; ‘side, party, or faction. This clearly delineates (in thai at least) that it is NOT a joint deal but something only YOUR side; as the foreigner must do..

I think you’re reading more into the engrish than you should and/or you don’t understand the subtleties of the thai language. The linchpin word in the entire paragraph is ฝ่าย. It means you alone.

In fact, there is not a single thing mentioned that your thai spouse must do in this section at all. It is ONLY what you as a foreigner married to a thai are required to do to obtain an extension;

Even though you say you are in possession of this, here’s the thai for you;

(๖) กรณีสมรสกับหญิงไทย ฝ่ายสามีซึ่งเป็นคนต่างด้าวต้องมีรายได้เฉลี่ยทั้งปีไม่น้อยกว่าเดือนละ ๔๐,๐๐๐ บาท หรือเงินฝากในธนาคารในประเทศไทยคงอยู่ในบัญชีตลอดระยะเวลาย้อนหลัง 2 เดือน ไม่น้อยกว่า ๔๐๐,๐๐๐ บาท เพื่อไว้ใช้จ่ายในรอบปี

While I am sorry you weren’t asked for this at other extensions, you know being here as long as you profess, there is a wide disparity between what is required by law and what is asked for (and that knife cuts both ways sometimes).

I would chalk up last time as a fluke. This time I think you’re being held to the real wording of the rules.

Ask your thai wife the meaning of the word ฝ่าย, that's the critical word in the thai rule whether it is included in the engrish translation or not.

[phetpeter]

Still bangin' your head against the wall on this one point, are ya?

I think where're your running amok is the engrish translation. In thai it clearly translates into engrish as saying; In the case of marriage to a thai woman the foreign husband's (and it uses the thai word ฝ่าย) which is translates as; 'side, party, or faction. This clearly delineates (in thai at least) that it is NOT a joint deal but something only YOUR side; as the foreigner must do..

I think you're reading more into the engrish than you should and/or you don't understand the subtleties of the thai language. The linchpin word in the entire paragraph is ฝ่าย. It means you alone.

In fact, there is not a single thing mentioned that your thai spouse must do in this section at all. It is ONLY what you as a foreigner married to a thai are required to do to obtain an extension;

Even though you say you are in possession of this, here's the thai for you;

(๖) กรณีสมรสกับหญิงไทย ฝ่ายสามีซึ่งเป็นคนต่างด้าวต้องมีรายได้เฉลี่ยทั้งปีไม่น้อยกว่าเดือนละ ๔๐,๐๐๐ บาท หรือเงินฝากในธนาคารในประเทศไทยคงอยู่ในบัญชีตลอดระยะเวลาย้อนหลัง 2 เดือน ไม่น้อยกว่า ๔๐๐,๐๐๐ บาท เพื่อไว้ใช้จ่ายในรอบปี

While I am sorry you weren't asked for this at other extensions, you know being here as long as you profess, there is a wide disparity between what is required by law and what is asked for (and that knife cuts both ways sometimes).

I would chalk up last time as a fluke. This time I think you're being held to the real wording of the rules.

Ask your thai wife the meaning of the word ฝ่าย, that's the critical word in the thai rule whether it is included in the engrish translation or not.

Shes say's and so do others including a Thai teacher 'man me woman you' or Reverse is what they are telling me, or a group! so go figure that! So in the phrase you are talking about, they tell me it means the person be it man or woman has to have money in a Thai bank!

and they state it doesn't mean a indiviual account! So again where is it that says so?

I am doing a road trip in a couple of days to show my friend the Golden triangle, If I have time and its not busy , I will ask at some immig offices on route to see if they say different and or have it written down as an order.

also 5th time got my visa. But two others sent away while there. So, perhaps they just like the power they control over everyone.

[Tod Daniels]

Sorry there guy but, <deleted> kinda engrish translation is; "man me, woman you"? A simple thai-2-english translation on the web will give better results than that nonsense answer.

This is the word by word, ripped from a common thai-engrish translation site on the net.

กรณี (circumstanse/case) สมรส (married) กับ (with) หญิงไทย (thai woman) ฝ่าย (party/side) สามี (HUSBAND) ซึ่ง (which) เป็น (is) คนต่างด้าว (foreigner) ต้อง (must) มี (have) blah-blah-blah. ...

The word ฝ่าย does indeed carry the meaning of 'group' BUT ONLY when there are many members in a group opposing another group (as in politics the left wing ฝ่ายซ้าย against the right wing ฝ่ายขวา i.e.: liberals against conservatives). Sadly the word does NOT carry the meaning that you and your wife are a "group" in this instance. In fact your wife is NOT mentioned in this paragraph at all, nor is the word married couple, leaving the meaning to mean ONLY you. In this meaning it means the group consists ONLY of one member; the foreign husband.

FWIW: I just showed two thai teachers who specialize in teaching thai to foreigners. They both said it is the husband's side who must meet the requirements. So there you go, evidently "ask-a-thai" can get different results too.

Good luck man. ..

[phetpeter]

Sorry there guy but, <deleted> kinda engrish translation is; "man me, woman you"? A simple thai-2-english translation on the web will give better results than that nonsense answer.

This is the word by word, ripped from a common thai-engrish translation site on the net.

กรณี (circumstanse/case) สมรส (married) กับ (with) หญิงไทย (thai woman) ฝ่าย (party/side) สามี (HUSBAND) ซึ่ง (which) เป็น (is) คนต่างด้าว (foreigner) ต้อง (must) มี (have) blah-blah-blah. ...

The word ฝ่าย does indeed carry the meaning of 'group' BUT ONLY when there are many members in a group opposing another group (as in politics the left wing ฝ่ายซ้าย against the right wing ฝ่ายขวา i.e.: liberals against conservatives). Sadly the word does NOT carry the meaning that you and your wife are a "group" in this instance. In fact your wife is NOT mentioned in this paragraph at all, nor is the word married couple, leaving the meaning to mean ONLY you. In this meaning it means the group consists ONLY of one member; the foreign husband.

FWIW: I just showed two thai teachers who specialize in teaching thai to foreigners. They both said it is the husband's side who must meet the requirements. So there you go, evidently "ask-a-thai" can get different results too.

Good luck man. ..

Hmmm! Let me throw this into the mix......Are we certain that the English translation has been slanted ..as it would to the male definination 'spouse'. seeing that the Thai written could in fact be written to mean non -Thai partner! Male, female or otherwise! So husband could mean a .......! as long as they are not Thai!

OH! Man me woman you was twice the explanation given to me without me explaining to them what I wanted to know!..a Thai translating quickly. Perhaps its a Northern Thai/Laos thing!

[Tod Daniels]

Unfortunately the thai wording is NOT ambiguous (especially in this particular clause). It clearly starts out saying; in circumstances where marriage to a thai woman by a person who is a foreigner, the HUSBAND must.

Hence the use of gender specific terms in the rule; หญิงไทย (thai woman), and the other term สามี (MALE husband).

To answer your question further;

I just did a forum search for "foreign woman married to a thai man" and got this interesting result from Maestro in a previous thread;

"The extension rules are gender-neutral, except where specifically mentioned otherwise. You are a foreign spouse of a Thai national, Police Order 777/2551, rule 2.18(3) “in the case of a spouse”. The additional clause (6) applies only if the spouse is the husband of a Thai national; it does not apply to the wife of a Thai national."

Anyway we spin this; you fall under clause (6), which is the one about a MAN married to a female thai national. The other clause (3) is for the other way around.

I am FAR from a thai language pundit but think I'm quite close to the mark and believe there is no ambiguity in their wording as far as a male foreigner married to a female thai national. (Especially as same sex marriages, or even marriages to Katoeys aren't recognized here ).

Also in checking with someone far more thai language savvy than I'll ever be; they concurred that the meaning is these are requirements the husband alone must follow, (so in other words the account hasta be in your name).

If you do get the chance to visit some immigrations offices and they provide you with any information that contradicts what I've said, please post it. Enquiring minds want to know

Edited April 1, 2010 by tod-daniels

[Maestro]

Thank you, tod-daniels, for your patience in trying to explain to peterandcat the literal meaning of clause (6) of paragraph 2.18 of the Police Order 777/2551.

Peterandcat, it is true that the English language can be, and quite often is, ambiguous in some contexts. When you say "I went to the cinema", it does not exclude the possibility that your were accompanied by another person on your visit to the cinema. Perhaps it is for this reason that when you read “…the husband who is an alien must have... a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht...” that you believe that this does not exclude the possibility that an account in a local Thai bank held jointly in your name and the name of a second person, eg your wife, should be acceptable. Here we have an excellent example why it is always stated that in case of doubt, the original Thai text applies.

Without wanting to question your understanding of the Thai language or the understanding of your wife and friends whom you consulted in this matter, I wish to suggest for your consideration that an immigration official is obviously in a better position to interpret this particular clause in the Police Order and to know the correct intent of this clause, in case also the Thai text should be ambiguous, but which apparently it is not.

The only official way that you could challenge the interpretation and application of the aforementioned clause (6) of paragraph 2.18 of the Police Order 777/2551 by a competent government official would be to take it to court, at which point you could then call your wife and friends as witnesses to give their version of the interpretation of this clause. Should you go this route, it would be greatly appreciated by me – and probably by many other readers of this forum – if you kindly scanned the court decision and posted it here.

--

Maestro

[freeurmind2]

LOL and LOL again. In some twisted way, I am glad that the shoe is on the other foot where immigration is concerned.

Just a reminder to westerners here, Asians are put through not one but several wringers when dealing with western immigration officials for any kind of visa. We are viewed as bugs to be squashed or as 3rd class humans until and unless we 1) have tons of money or 2) 'know' the right people. In this forum alone you will find many stories of all the unreasonable denials the Thai or Filipino gf/wife received despite the western bf/hubby.

Be patient, my western friends. It's not the end of the world. Play the game and play it well and you will be rewarded in the end. Can't say the same for Asian visa applicants. They would need luck and lots of it.

[Tod Daniels]

LOL and LOL again. In some twisted way, I am glad that the shoe is on the other foot where immigration is concerned. Just a reminder to westerners here, Asians are put through not one but several wringers when dealing with western immigration officials for any kind of visa. <SNIP>

Sadly your post has at least some truth to it. Although whether this interesting observation has anything to do with the topic of this thread which is about recording every interview is dubious at best. Especially when talking about a first world country like the US or UK versus a developing third world one like Thailand or the Philippines. They are apples and oranges in that regard.

When a thai tries to secure a visa to the US, the American Embassy puts 100% of the burden on the applicant to show they have sufficient 'thais' to thailand so they will return when the visa is up, rather than overstaying and falling off the radar. (The US simply does not have the man-power to hunt down people who overstay their visa). In some instances it can and does work against the applicant to say they have an American b/f, as it raises red flags that they might overstay.

Unfortunately often times due to lack of education, sketchy if any work history, little or no money in the bank, few if any 'hard assets' (condo, car, motorcycle, etc), and/or marginally adequate funds to live in the US for the duration of the visa, from an interviewers standpoint the person applying for a visa is an overstay risk out of the gate.

However with that being said, I know way too many thais who hold 10 year visas to the US and travel there. It is NOT difficult, just time consuming. It requires due diligence in research, honesty in the application process, and a great deal of patience when you "play the game".

Edited April 4, 2010 by tod-daniels

[thaibkk]

just wondering ...

is it 400k in thai bank

or can it also be for example.... 15.000 us dollars in a dollar account in a thai bank which would be at 32 baht / dollar : 480.000 baht worth

or can it only be thai baht ?

[hhgz]

"hav[e] every interview recorded by video and mic, and if the customer is unhappy, he can have a copy of the interview...The customer can insist on the camera running or can on camera ask for the interview not to be recorded..."

If the interview was not recorded, what would you suggest if you weren't happy with the interview? I think all interviews should be recorded and, if there is a problem, the recording could be reviewed by the applicants, or the police. Unfortunately, with the prevalence of editing expertise, the validity of a recording given to an applicant would be outside the chain of evidence.