Foreigners Joining Red-Shirts Rally

[on-on]

^difference being at a protest and actually protesting. Just look at the lad who was speaking on stage at the red demo the other night? I mean if that isnt crossing the line I don't know what is. However like I said - if you are willing to accept the consequences then so be it.

In a normal democracy and with a proper justice system, the guy speaking on stage hasn't crossed any line at all. Now if the same applies in Thailand is another question alltogether..

I don't think you can generalize like that. Last I checked my country had basically tossed habeus corpus out when it's not convenient and kicked over due process along with it, England's deporting troublesome clerics and God knows what all else we could come up with from the West concerning the topic of how our countries treat minorities that they consider problematic. Here it's just way more magnified because there's Thai, there's Asian and then there's not-Asian - as with most Asian countries. In the West we have issues still of course, but legally (if not entirely socially) speaking we've moved beyond the whole skin color thing (currently we're pissy about religious affiliation, heh). So, things are demonstrably better in the West when it comes to ethnic pluralism/integration, though they're hardly perfect, and it's not that hard to find cases where immigrants are hounded and deported by the government for public protest.

Edited April 9, 2010 by on-on

[sjaak327]

^difference being at a protest and actually protesting. Just look at the lad who was speaking on stage at the red demo the other night? I mean if that isnt crossing the line I don't know what is. However like I said - if you are willing to accept the consequences then so be it.

In a normal democracy and with a proper justice system, the guy speaking on stage hasn't crossed any line at all. Now if the same applies in Thailand is another question alltogether..

I don't think you can generalize like that. Last I checked my country had basically tossed habeus corpus out when it's not convenient and kicked over due process along with it, England's deporting troublesome clerics and God knows what all else we could come up with from the West concerning the topic of how our countries treat minorities that they consider problematic. Here it's just way more magnified because there's Thai, there's Asian and then there's not-Asian - as with most Asian countries. In the West we have issues still of course, but legally (if not entirely socially) speaking we've moved beyond the whole skin color thing (currently we're pissy about religious affiliation, heh). So, things are demonstrably better in the West when it comes to ethnic pluralism/integration, though they're hardly perfect, and it's not that hard to find cases where immigrants are hounded and deported by the government for public protest.

I agree with you, and undoubtly there are some countries where immigrants are deported for doing what the constitution of that particular country allows them to do. To be honest I think that is utterly unforgiveable. And yes in the West nowadays religion seems to be the problem (largly by imagination then rational thoughts). Coupled with some populist politicians that gain a foothold and other parties that change their views on immigrants to make up for lost ground. At least I don't think my country of birth (The Netherlands) has deported immigrants because they participated in protests, allthough the way immigrants are treated and are being discussed is a constant source of extreme annoyance on my part.

[yoshiwara]

^TIT and like most 3rd world countries

Why do people keep insisting Thailand is a 3rd world country? It's not at all. The poorest areas of Thailand are in the villages of Issan, correct? I currently live in Issan, and am out in the village at least one day a week selling food at mama's restaurant to give her the day off. It's definitely poor and everything, but hardly 3rd world conditions. Zimbabwe, Somalia, Ethiopia, and Nigeria are 3rd world countries. Not Thailand. Electricity (and even cell phone coverage), education, and government services are available everywhere in the country.

Third world is an outdated term, it doesn't apply anymore. The current terminology is developing country, developed country and a couple of others. They're all specific classifications based on HDI and what not. It's not a feeling, it's empirical insofar as things of this nature can be empirical.

Yes, it is not accurate to describe Thailand as a Third World Country.

The most accurate description is one of 'unequal and combined development' within globalisation where we see the most advanced urban development plus some of the most backward economic developments.

Throw in a weak ruling class riven by a major split and you have a few problems.

Thaksin is determined to exploit the opportunities he sees available to him.

But the overthrow of capitalism is not on his agenda.

The cry of class war is just for the lumpens.

[Sabre]

american democracy what a joke !!! as a non citizen he has no right to stand up on stage and lecture people on what to do .......... another loud mouthed know all yank ..... go home and sort the mess out in your own country freak ..........

Where are you from? You sound like a xenophobic, bitter foreigner whose life has passed him/her by....

the USA is not a democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

Yes it's a democratic Constitutional Republic. In theory anyway.

[Sabre]

The title is wrong it was in May 1992. I was there in the lobby on the floor. It was the field hospital and the place wher all media was hosted, from BBC, CNN, Pacific Intercommunication, German TV stations and a lot more. The footage I think was filmed by a non accredited journalist. Nevertheless it's part of that what really happened in that hotel.

Apologies for the misinformation.

[beerchang]

Spelling?? britz, auzziez, kiwiz, scotch

At least show your masyery of English .... Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Scots ....... or maybe you afre full of the SCOTCH!!!

As an aside; enough with the American bashing, as I've stated already ignorance knows no country boundaries, and I've met as many ignorant , -insert your home nationality here- as I have Americans.

Spelling, you say? Your 'masyery' of English is impressive! You have 'masyered' it quite well! I reckon you can spell, so all you need now is to 'masyer' the keyboard! Or lay off the SCOTCH!

IMO forriners shudn't joyn red rallies az itt mae welle end bludily. Eye wud stae cleer miself.

[jitenshaman]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

it's not about Thaksin? Then why on earth is he on every t-shirt, banner, and spending hours phoning in to tell the masses what is next? Do a bit of research as to what happened to press freedom of speech under Mr. Democracy. Hate to say it, but this whole movement is akin to Jesse Helms leading a movement against racism, and unfortunately a lot of folks haven't done much homework

[Publicus]

Didn't Americans enter the war in Europe in June 1944, way too late and only after they realized the war would be won and world divided without them... You forget who won the war while you secured your backgardn from Japs.

Sorry, this is the biggest load of bullsh*t I've ever read on here... and that's really saying something.

I'm a brit but I know my history, if it hadn't been for the US joining the allies we'd have been totally f*cked in WWII. Simple as.

Yep, you would be and almost were. And I have full respect to US, Brits, Canadians and other soldiers fallen.

But it was neither Brits or Americans but Soviets who broke down Nazis. By summer 1944 the outcome of war in Europe was clearly on their advancing side. Allies entered the war (actual entry not declaration) just in time to prevent Russians going further west and take their part in post-war map. Big politics ruled at that stage more then saving brave france.

US troops supposed to be in Europe in 1940-41 and then millions of lives would have been saved. Simple as.

Sorry for OT but I just cannot stand those self-claimed US declaration being world savior before and now.

The Soviets were allies getting heavy materials support from the US while the US and Brits fought the Nazis in N Africa then up Italy then finally were preapred for the June 6th D-Day Normandy job. Supreme Allied Commander Europe Gen Eisenhower let the Soviets take the beating in beating up the Nazis on the Eastern Front while the US, Brits and other allied forces liberated Europe and moved into Nazi German by crossing the Rhine. The war was won by a coordinated, strategic allied effort, to include the Pacific Theater of War campaign against the Japs who concentrated everything against the US and Pacific allies, thereby leaving Stalin to focus against Hitler. Meanwhile, Thailand's Victory Monument arises from chasing the Nazi defeated French back from the east side of the Meekong River to reclaim the big temples there.........after the war France vetoed Thailand's every attempt to join the UN until Thailand agreed to return the temples and land to France........hence 'farang' which literally means "French" and became used in Thailand as the equivalent of 'son of a bitch'.

That's all of us .

[cdmtdm]

Didn't Americans enter the war in Europe in June 1944, way too late and only after they realized the war would be won and world divided without them... You forget who won the war while you secured your backgardn from Japs.

Sorry, this is the biggest load of bullsh*t I've ever read on here... and that's really saying something.

I'm a brit but I know my history, if it hadn't been for the US joining the allies we'd have been totally f*cked in WWII. Simple as.

the point is how many lives were lost because they waited and waited , ask yourself WHY ? yes the americans made the difference....... but while they made their own bed millions of people needlessly died .....

[kiwiinasia]

Of course foreigners can turn up at a rally and talk.

What law in Thailand says "No falang can talk about politics in public"?

mmmm

[kraxlhuber]

I am a foreigner living in Thailand now for more than 20 years. I have my opinions about this and many other situations here in Thailand , and I feel free to express them...... WITHIN my circle of friends and accquantainces, but not on a stage in a public rally. That is not my place.

We foreigners are GUESTS in this country. Any foreigner who publically protests at a open rally, such as is going on in BKK now, is trying to upset/overthrow the government and should be escorted to the airport and deported immediately.

People should know better, when to open and when to keep their mouths closed and opinions to themselves. There are places to express your opinions, but on stage or at a public rally is definitely not one of them.

Immigration, pick them up and show them the door.

Apparently the Thai wife [some of whom can become very rabid with their opinions] have them by the short and curlies. The effect is that these foreigners are not thinking , but reacting with the wrong head.

My opinion is foreigners open you mouth in protest, close the door to this country that we all love as guests in a beautiful place.

OMHO

a bit too big to swallow,

maybe the Thai visa Forum is doomed as most ranter and complainer and insulter will ALL get rounded up and deported(maybe to Cambodia).

Freedom of speech and actually participating in a RIOT/Rebellion/Revolution ,is another pair of shoes.

[globalmenace]

Didn't Americans enter the war in Europe in June 1944, way too late and only after they realized the war would be won and world divided without them... You forget who won the war while you secured your backgardn from Japs.

Sorry, this is the biggest load of bullsh*t I've ever read on here... and that's really saying something.

I'm a brit but I know my history, if it hadn't been for the US joining the allies we'd have been totally f*cked in WWII. Simple as.

the point is how many lives were lost because they waited and waited , ask yourself WHY ? yes the americans made the difference....... but while they made their own bed millions of people needlessly died .....

If that is your "point", why didn't the rest of Europe and Russia shut Hitler down long before Sep 1, 1939? You America haters (oh so fashionable!) make me sick. If the US hadn't entered WWII at all, you would be speaking German, Russian or Japanese. And a slave to boot unless you are of pure Aryan stock. So go eff yourself...

[barky]

Maybe some foreigners should go and join the army and police force ... they seem to need people with ideas.

NO, they NEED someone with balls, guts, honour, diligence, law enforcment ability, non-corruptablity, scruples, righteousness etc. These are atributes that few Thais possess.

Edited April 10, 2010 by barky

[Sunderland]

Has the slightly portly 60 something farang who has just been speaking on behalf of the reds after the other leaders now some sort of UDD leader????

I think I misheard something. Sounded like he said the red shirts welcome all terrorists to Thailand to fight for democracy, but I guess he must have said tourists. I need to give my head a shake.

[cdmtdm]

Didn't Americans enter the war in Europe in June 1944, way too late and only after they realized the war would be won and world divided without them... You forget who won the war while you secured your backgardn from Japs.

Sorry, this is the biggest load of bullsh*t I've ever read on here... and that's really saying something.

I'm a brit but I know my history, if it hadn't been for the US joining the allies we'd have been totally f*cked in WWII. Simple as.

the point is how many lives were lost because they waited and waited , ask yourself WHY ? yes the americans made the difference....... but while they made their own bed millions of people needlessly died .....

If that is your "point", why didn't the rest of Europe and Russia shut Hitler down long before Sep 1, 1939? You America haters (oh so fashionable!) make me sick. If the US hadn't entered WWII at all, you would be speaking German, Russian or Japanese. And a slave to boot unless you are of pure Aryan stock. So go eff yourself...

perhaps if you read a little of noam chomsky you may have more of an idea what was really going on ....... the world is still waiting for the WMD to be found by the way and lets not mention south america , vietnam , etc etc ... and no i have no hate for americans only pity for the ones who believe the propaganda .......

[cdnvic]

Please, lets get back on topic. No shortage of sites out there to debate US politics and foreign policy.

[chantorn]

The title is wrong it was in May 1992. I was there in the lobby on the floor. It was the field hospital and the place wher all media was hosted, from BBC, CNN, Pacific Intercommunication, German TV stations and a lot more. The footage I think was filmed by a non accredited journalist. Nevertheless it's part of that what really happened in that hotel.

Apologies for the misinformation.

This is a time of SOE. Such clip will be banned by the government (provoke violence). I suggest ThaiVisa remove it from youtube before ICT shut down ThaiVisa. I am not joking.

[britmaveric]

^no worries TV is not mass read by thai(s) and even so I think Thai(s) are smart enough to tell the difference between 1992 and today.

[globalmenace]

Has the slightly portly 60 something farang who has just been speaking on behalf of the reds after the other leaders now some sort of UDD leader????

I think I misheard something. Sounded like he said the red shirts welcome all terrorists to Thailand to fight for democracy, but I guess he must have said tourists. I need to give my head a shake.

I can think of many scenarios where the active participation of a few farangs in this STRICKLY internal Thai political matter could result in a huge backlash against all farangs. Imagine the thoughts of Thais on the other side as they see non-Thais (BTW, unless you are Thai by ethnicity and nationality, you ARE farang, doesn't matter if you speak/write fluently, have live here for many years, married to a TW or one of the very few who have aquired citizenship) interferring in this mess. Easy for me to imagine all long-term expats getting kicked-out, only 30-day visas allowed with no re-entry.

These farangs, like that grinning a**hole in the OP photo, are idiots and need to be permanently banned from the Kingdom. I hope that is the least that happens. They are playing with fire, and the fire could soon immolate you.

[Bagwan]

Didn't Americans enter the war in Europe in June 1944, way too late and only after they realized the war would be won and world divided without them... You forget who won the war while you secured your backgardn from Japs.

Sorry, this is the biggest load of bullsh*t I've ever read on here... and that's really saying something.

I'm a brit but I know my history, if it hadn't been for the US joining the allies we'd have been totally f*cked in WWII. Simple as.

Read your history again. The invasion of Russia ensured that Nazi Germany would lose. By the time that the US joined in, mainly because they had been attacked and fears that they would have to deal with a Nazi Europe, the war in Western Europe was in a stalemate. The Battle of Britain saw to that.

Can we now get back to spewing out a load of old tat about getting involved in something that the sentient steer well clear of. I'm patiently waiting for somebody to post the slogan 'Better dead than Red'.

P.S. I have just finished taking my keyboard apart and cleaning all the coffee out of it thanks to the guy who posted that Thailand had experienced lots of coo's.

Coo! Fancy that. Maybe he meant Koo? (Remember Koo Stark(naked)) Lots of Thail ladies with their eyes on the main chance.

[britmaveric]

^yanks opened up the 2nd front which ultimately defeated the germans. Russians were pressuring for this since yanks entered the war in 1941.

[Redsunset]

^TIT and like most 3rd world countries

Why do people keep insisting Thailand is a 3rd world country? It's not at all. The poorest areas of Thailand are in the villages of Issan, correct? I currently live in Issan, and am out in the village at least one day a week selling food at mama's restaurant to give her the day off. It's definitely poor and everything, but hardly 3rd world conditions. Zimbabwe, Somalia, Ethiopia, and Nigeria are 3rd world countries. Not Thailand. Electricity (and even cell phone coverage), education, and government services are available everywhere in the country.

Third world is an outdated term, it doesn't apply anymore. The current terminology is developing country, developed country and a couple of others. They're all specific classifications based on HDI and what not. It's not a feeling, it's empirical insofar as things of this nature can be empirical.

Yes, it is not accurate to describe Thailand as a Third World Country.

The most accurate description is one of 'unequal and combined development' within globalisation where we see the most advanced urban development plus some of the most backward economic developments.

Throw in a weak ruling class riven by a major split and you have a few problems.

Thaksin is determined to exploit the opportunities he sees available to him.

But the overthrow of capitalism is not on his agenda.

The cry of class war is just for the lumpens.

The way the red-shirts are acting, and the way the government has responded... I'll bet most people would call Thailand a third world country, or at least a developing country. No, it is not as destitute as Nigeria, but still, it is not Singapore with respect to GDP and economic viability.

[Hawk]

Does wearing a red flower shirt mean that I am part of the "mob"?

Do Italian gangsters wear red flower shirts?

Its Saturday and my mind is full of questions? Like, are red chairs dangerous to sit on? Or is it safe to get on a red bus?

[cdnvic]

Please, lets get back on topic. No shortage of sites out there to debate US politics and foreign policy.

Several didn't take the warning seriously and have had their posting rights revoked for a period.

[Sunderland]

The title is wrong it was in May 1992. I was there in the lobby on the floor. It was the field hospital and the place wher all media was hosted, from BBC, CNN, Pacific Intercommunication, German TV stations and a lot more. The footage I think was filmed by a non accredited journalist. Nevertheless it's part of that what really happened in that hotel.

Apologies for the misinformation.

This is a time of SOE. Such clip will be banned by the government (provoke violence). I suggest ThaiVisa remove it from youtube before ICT shut down ThaiVisa. I am not joking.

I disagree. Why hide the truth?

[huma79]

[quote name='Sabre' post='3489474' date='2010-04-10

This is a time of SOE. Such clip will be banned by the government (provoke violence). I suggest ThaiVisa remove it from youtube before ICT shut down ThaiVisa. I am not joking.

I disagree. Why hide the truth?

The ICT has the ability to block individual youtube videos in Thailand.. if they deem it offensive, it will be blocked at the source (youtube). They're not going to go after TV..

[deathstardan]

I have been a WP holder, tax payer, volunteer, legal business and property holder, husband and father to Thai nationals for the past 7 years...I am not allowed a voice or an opinion?

I should be deported because I may choose to demonstrate ( peacefully and legally) against what I believe to be wrong?

Since we are told all the time Thailand is a *democracy* Where does this fit in with that ideal?

I am a guest who must contribute and just take whatever is thrown my way. At least China are open in their communist beliefs.

I truly find it unbelievable, these thoughts come from the mouths of westerners who come from free, democratic countries.

[tomyummer]

Dumb foreigners joining the rally. They have no idea what they're doing. I hope the officials get their passports and deport them. Don't get involved unless you know what the real story is. It just shows your ignorance. This repetitive debacle stems only from the personal greed of the politicians here in Thailand. The party in power is privy to the billions of baht worth of contracts in their respective districts. It is about sharing the hard earned tax payers' money with strategic political friends to solidify their contracts in the future. It is not about democracy at all. It's about a system that doesn't work, programs that sound good but have no long term benefits, and about buttering up the uneducated so that you can ensure the majority vote, stay in office, and continue to raid the coffers. Foreigners beware. You are just tools of convenience in this country. You are not as valuable as you think you are. The branding of this potentially great country has just taken another ten steps back. And the sad thing is, the Thais don't give a dam_n.

[saraburioz]

Unbelievable that most farang sit back and are scared to do anything yet complain about the bad treatment we get.

Us farang will never integrate with thai as long as you are scared of Thais. Can't join the red-shirts as they might not give me a 30 day extension to be with my teerak.

Some of us have been here for decades and fight for our rights and that means joining the red-shirts if that's what we believe.

[tomyummer]

Sure, you can do something, but beware of suffering the so often misinterpretations of your actions as a farang. Thailand is a great place to live if you can tolerate the inconsistencies of the laws which is hard to keep up with as a farang. Can farangs vote? Can farangs LEGALLY own land? No matter what farangs do they will only and always just be visitors of Thailand. Even if you are married to a Thai. How can farangs possibly make a difference? Pray tell.