Foreigners Joining Red-Shirts Rally

[bangkokbanks]

I think it is easy to get caugt up in the excitment of the rally, these falongs that ride in the back of Red Shirt pick up trucks, or get up on stage are not using their better judgement. I agree with many in this post to stay out of it, we are guests in this country. I did go to several rallies to take photographs. I spoke with protesters and asked many questions to gain an understanding; I did not make my views known nor did I at any time act in a manner that would imply taking sides with the red shirts. I was given a head band and made to put it on to pose for a photo; I did so. At that moment I realized I was cought up in something that was beyound my control and quickly got away - putting the headband in my pocket once I got out of site. They asked me a lot of questions about my background and what I thought; they asked about my wife - it started to get very uncomfortable very fast. To make a quick exit I explained I could not understand the Esarn accent well and politely excused myself. I realized the kind and smiling nature of the Red Shirt could turn nasty if my answers where not what they wanted to hear. Many Falong that want to participate in this had best realize this is serious, it is not our business. My being there photographing was exciting at first but after thinking about it, was foolish. Going up on stage is the extreme; it is ignorant and could lead to expulsion from Thailand if not future trouble from the authorities.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't agree that it isn't our business. It isn't as though I haven't lived here for a long time, have kids, a wife, houses, cars just like many.

However, it is not something I should get personally involved in actively supporting or not. Since I cannot change the situation by voting or taking up a position in politics to change anything, I am powerless. It doesn't mean that it is not any business of mine, since the outcome one way or another may well have an effect on me and my dependents.

[Smiles]

Each forienger should know the boundries of anything.

Who does he think he is to give a 'speech' ? 30 secs of fame?

If the govt has the time, he should be arrested and deport home! Inform his country of origin that his views are not needed in Thailand!

Silly act!

[draftvader]

However, he admitted he was not too knowledgeable about Thai politics, and mainly came in support of his Thai wife, who is a strong activist.

Idiot, what an absolute idiot. He should be sentenced to prison where he will be repeatedly poked in the eye, with somebody saying the word "idiot" each time.

Another contender for the Darwin award.

Laughing SO hard I sh_t myself....brilliant Pythonesque comedy vision, something to cheer up this miserable situation

[CWMcMurray]

You might be advised to study a bit about the history of such crackdowns in Thailand. Usually there is a bit of shooting at first, and a number of people are killed and a number wounded. Then they make everybody in the place lie down on the ground, facefirst with their hands above their heads. Anyone who doesn't comply is shot or beaten. Then they load everyone onto trucks and take them off to prison (if you're unlucky people will be stacked 5 or 6 high, and a number will suffocate). Something I would rather avoid, but you have your educated opinion and all.

And that is why it is essential for the governemtn to shut down the RED TV station.... they will need to control all media outlets and information given to the public and the rest of the world.

Then they can crack down with immunity...

The last thing they wanty is pictures and videos of the military/police crack down being distrubed on the RED tv channel.

[SabaiBKK]

Many of have families here. Our children are Thai citizens. We care. Caring leads to action. If a Brit gave a speech onstage in New York at an anti-war rally against US occupation of Afghanistan, I'd applaud him. Same, same. It is important that we show our kids that we stand up and support the things that we believe in.

Nice! And interestingly... if you think about it.... ALL AMERICANS ARE FOREIGNERS IN AMERICA!!!! Fact is, virtually everyone is descended from some immigrant... what I respect are INFORMED PEOPLE who RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE'S VIEWPOINTS, and have something INSIGHTFUL and CONSTUCTIVE to say, regardless of where they come from...

Exactly! There was a very good piece on a weblog that discussed why farangs who basic values are so similar take opposing sides in the Red=Yellow Thai political conflict. It is fascinating. Unfortunately, Abhisit detests the discipline of social psychology and shut down the academic website.

.... and that is curious, given that Abhisit is such a strong proponent of freedom of speech... a bit inconsistent...

guys do you really think that Abhisit decides of everything???? the problem is that abhisit is actually honest , straight, and non corrupt and his doing what he can do for thailand, not for his bank account, but the guys around him , especially Suthep which is a corrupt gangster, are breathing down Abhisits neck.

Suthep and his clique are not better than Thaksin, they are made in the same mold. the reds should demand that Suthep step down , but they cannot because he is so much like Thaksin and they would look dumb to do so.

to keep on topic , I really think that no foreigner should take part in any protest in thailand, this is not our place. the farang that went on stage should be sent back to his country with a 50 years Persona Non Grata stamp in his passport.

[Canuk]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

[anotherpeter]

You might be advised to study a bit about the history of such crackdowns in Thailand. Usually there is a bit of shooting at first, and a number of people are killed and a number wounded. Then they make everybody in the place lie down on the ground, facefirst with their hands above their heads. Anyone who doesn't comply is shot or beaten. Then they load everyone onto trucks and take them off to prison (if you're unlucky people will be stacked 5 or 6 high, and a number will suffocate). Something I would rather avoid, but you have your educated opinion and all.

And that is why it is essential for the governemtn to shut down the RED TV station.... they will need to control all media outlets and information given to the public and the rest of the world.

Then they can crack down with immunity...

The last thing they wanty is pictures and videos of the military/police crack down being distrubed on the RED tv channel.

There will be enough international media reporting the actual news, that we don't need Red TV to be spouting their propaganda.

[anotherpeter]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

It's the reds that make us believe it's all about Thaksin. They are the ones saying "When Thaksin is back, you will get the money you want".

They have their freedom. They have their democracy. But they don't have their Thaksin, so they are protesting.

Things certainly aren't perfect here. The poor do need assistance. But how are the reds proposing to assist them? By getting Thaksin back so that he can continue handing out money.

[culicine]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

* This protest is ALL about Thaksin, white washing him and getting back his money. I feel sorry for those reds who have been brainwashed into thinking it is anything but this issue. There is a large proportion who well know what is going on, but the payments have been signinifant (up to 100K per family - services required 'for as long as is needed', with the promise of land if they are victorious (first hand knowledge of this)

* It is actually illegal to partake in protests in Thailand. That guy was a fool for getting on that stage. Perhaps Abhisit, with his more international outlook, might let it slide. He has greater problems to deal with at the moment.

[Jingthing]

Mr. Am-Can-Man is a CANADIAN and an American. Why are you American bashers calling him American? I say he is a CANUCK. Please call him CANADIAN now to balance out this obvious bias.

BTW, foreigners, even Canadians, you are advised by the major country embassies to stay away from the illegal red insurgent protest sites. You have been warned.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[yoshiwara]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

Once you realise that the Thaksin forces have not made one single economic demand and have no economic programme whatsoever, you understand that the above Thaksin apologist contribution is just a cover for an anti-foreigner diatribe. If he adds the anti-foreigner sentiment to Thaksin's anti-gay bigotry he can qualify for a shading of his red shirt to the colour brown.

This is no class war, it is the same old, same old.

Return Thaksin to power.

With fake left bombast.

[CWMcMurray]

You might be advised to study a bit about the history of such crackdowns in Thailand. Usually there is a bit of shooting at first, and a number of people are killed and a number wounded. Then they make everybody in the place lie down on the ground, facefirst with their hands above their heads. Anyone who doesn't comply is shot or beaten. Then they load everyone onto trucks and take them off to prison (if you're unlucky people will be stacked 5 or 6 high, and a number will suffocate). Something I would rather avoid, but you have your educated opinion and all.

And that is why it is essential for the governemtn to shut down the RED TV station.... they will need to control all media outlets and information given to the public and the rest of the world.

Then they can crack down with immunity...

The last thing they wanty is pictures and videos of the military/police crack down being distrubed on the RED tv channel.

There will be enough international media reporting the actual news, that we don't need Red TV to be spouting their propaganda.

In that case, they should also shut down the government controled stations that are spouting the pro governement propaganda...

But that would not be good either.... the better option is to leave media outlets for both sides open and lewt people view the ones they want and make up their own mind.

Any government who controls all media outlets within the control is not a good gonvernment (in my opinion).

If the government believes that the Red TV station is spouting rediculous propeganda... let them fight the claims being made in the media.... do not silence oposition, debate then in the public forum and prove to the Thai people that the claims that are being made are wrong.

That is how you turn public opinion...

[anotherpeter]

You might be advised to study a bit about the history of such crackdowns in Thailand. Usually there is a bit of shooting at first, and a number of people are killed and a number wounded. Then they make everybody in the place lie down on the ground, facefirst with their hands above their heads. Anyone who doesn't comply is shot or beaten. Then they load everyone onto trucks and take them off to prison (if you're unlucky people will be stacked 5 or 6 high, and a number will suffocate). Something I would rather avoid, but you have your educated opinion and all.

And that is why it is essential for the governemtn to shut down the RED TV station.... they will need to control all media outlets and information given to the public and the rest of the world.

Then they can crack down with immunity...

The last thing they wanty is pictures and videos of the military/police crack down being distrubed on the RED tv channel.

There will be enough international media reporting the actual news, that we don't need Red TV to be spouting their propaganda.

In that case, they should also shut down the government controled stations that are spouting the pro governement propaganda...

But that would not be good either.... the better option is to leave media outlets for both sides open and lewt people view the ones they want and make up their own mind.

Any government who controls all media outlets within the control is not a good gonvernment (in my opinion).

If the government believes that the Red TV station is spouting rediculous propeganda... let them fight the claims being made in the media.... do not silence oposition, debate then in the public forum and prove to the Thai people that the claims that are being made are wrong.

That is how you turn public opinion...

That depends on whether the pro-government propaganda is advocating violence against the reds, or playing doctored video/audio to make it look/sound like someone has said something that they haven't. Or whether the pro-government propaganda is telling blatant lies.

No doubt it is biased. All media is biased in one way or another. But the Red TV has been shut down because of the blatent lies they ahve been telling.

[granuaile]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

The redshirt demo is abt Thaksin and nothing else. All the rhetoric abt freedom and democracy is BS. It isn't brave. It's naive... And why the f*** does Thailand have to conform to anyone else's image of democracy. This is Thailand not America. Supporting Thailand is not supporting the redshirts,...

[brianb1944]

Let foreigners do what they want. Foreign born and foreign educated Abhisit seems to be doing just fine!

And yet he speaks Thai better than 99% of Thais.

You know what they say, how do you tell if Abhisit is lying?

If his lips are moving, he's lying!

If we could just get Abhisit's understanding of democracy up to his understanding of the Thai language, we'd all be happy!

Cheers...

Who actually says that? apart from you that is.

[Sisaketmike]

This is Thais' politic, STAY OUT OF IT.

We DO NOT need any interference (pro or against).

All foreigners should be neutral or being deported immediately. It’s not our country, we’re not even allowed to vote, so please don’t listen to your wife to join in.

[hansnoi]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

I guess you already bought a one way ticket Phuket-Bangkok? Feel free to do so, but don't patronize and insult foreigners here who like me fail to see things like you do or don't wish to participate physically in a struggle which is not theirs. My forefathers fought for their freedom and democracy in their OWN country. I may remind you that the yellow shirt movement when they were protesting on the streets also claimed to fight for democracy and freedom against a corrupt government. It would make a nice cartoon to see the foreign redshirts fighting in the streets against foreign yellow shirts. It is already quite ridiculous on this forum....

[elcent]

The title is wrong it was in May 1992. I was there in the lobby on the floor. It was the field hospital and the place wher all media was hosted, from BBC, CNN, Pacific Intercommunication, German TV stations and a lot more. The footage I think was filmed by a non accredited journalist. Nevertheless it's part of that what really happened in that hotel.

Edited April 9, 2010 by elcent

[brianb1944]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

I didnt know that they still published boys own? that sounds like a passage from one of their hroic but naive heroes.

[hardy1943]

This is Thais' politic, STAY OUT OF IT.

We DO NOT need any interference (pro or against).

Agree Then quit feeding us this BS every day and then become THAI VISA again.

[somo]

I was there when the farang spoke on stage and his accent was english not american or canadian. His Thai was very good.

He was also fully aware of the consequences and expected to be arrested and deported demonstrating that free speach was a myth here.

Reporters Without Borders worldwide press freedom index 2005 ranked Thailand 107th out of 167 countries dropped from 59th in 2004

It has since got worse not better.

In its 2010 report, Human Rights Watch praised Abhisit's rhetoric but dismissed his record, noting, "The government continually undermined respect for human rights and due process of law in Thailand."

[Gonzo the Face]

You might be advised to study a bit about the history of such crackdowns in Thailand. Usually there is a bit of shooting at first, and a number of people are killed and a number wounded. Then they make everybody in the place lie down on the ground, facefirst with their hands above their heads. Anyone who doesn't comply is shot or beaten. Then they load everyone onto trucks and take them off to prison (if you're unlucky people will be stacked 5 or 6 high, and a number will suffocate). Something I would rather avoid, but you have your educated opinion and all.

And that is why it is essential for the governemtn to shut down the RED TV station.... they will need to control all media outlets and information given to the public and the rest of the world.

Then they can crack down with immunity...

The last thing they wanty is pictures and videos of the military/police crack down being distrubed on the RED tv channel.

There will be enough international media reporting the actual news, that we don't need Red TV to be spouting their propaganda.

In that case, they should also shut down the government controled stations that are spouting the pro governement propaganda...

But that would not be good either.... the better option is to leave media outlets for both sides open and lewt people view the ones they want and make up their own mind.

Any government who controls all media outlets within the control is not a good gonvernment (in my opinion).

If the government believes that the Red TV station is spouting rediculous propeganda... let them fight the claims being made in the media.... do not silence oposition, debate then in the public forum and prove to the Thai people that the claims that are being made are wrong.

That is how you turn public opinion...

Is It ???? Let me give you an example.

Many out there are parents. How about a law has been passed that sez that once a child is 6 years old they no longer have to listen to their parents regarding what they should eat each and every day.

So in trying to be good parents we try and convince our impressionable young 6 year olds, that they must eat a scientifically , good and balanced diet with foods containing vegetables of all sorts. Remember they cannot be forced to eat that which they , themselves choose not to.

Now across the street is a business man who makes candies, cookies, snack foods, ice cream , sweet treats of all kinds. He tells the kids to eat his makings, afterall they are much better tasting and the children just like them better.[not to mention all the money he will make from the selling of his products, to hel_l with if its good for them or not]

Now we know as adults that there is a good correct diet and a bad diet in the above story.

Even if our kids love us , but the decision is theirs , you make a guess which way they will go.

Now I am not saying the mass of the redshirts are 6 year olds or of the 6 year mentality.

But change the story a bit...No matter what the age of the person , if they have not any meaningful education regarding any subject, they will act on what sounds best, feels best, or they think they can get the most out of it.

If you tell the red shirts that what the govt is doing for them is not good and that you can do much more for them, and here is a little money to prove it ..... come to the party, wear my shirt, be happy, have a good time and you will be paid and fed, or you can stay home and work for a day or days for 100 -200 baht a day, because you have not, or have not had the opportunity to better educate yourself......... what do you think they will want to do..... after all the other side didn't ask them to come to a party....... and if we do as the red leaders tell us ,,,,,, well they say they will give us a lot more...

Put that out on the radio or tv and let the govt side put out the truth that to make a good life for yourself you must learn, become a little smarter to better work more efficiently at whatever you choose to do and then you may have some of the good things of life......

What do you think and what decision to you think those who have the equivilient of the 6yr olds knowledge in the above example .....what decision will they make.....

They will take the easiest, the one that will appear to be the best and most return for them.... EVEN IF THAT STORY IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

This you feel should be ok's and all media should be able to say whatever they want to say ????

Yes , Maybe when you talk to and about those who have the basic education and knowledge to tell right from wrong..... and not take the laziest and easiest and what sounds like the best way out. All that glitters may not be gold,,,,,,,, it just might be polished up Bull$hit.

my opinion only

[earthpig]

This is a forum for expats with medium or long term ties to Thailand, and who thus naturally have an interest in the matters discussed here. This is a forum for discussion among people with similar concerns. It is natural that opinions on current events in Thailand are expressed here by expats.

But to protest in public is another matter entirely. There we become a focus of interest to Thais, or at least to some Thais. Potentially, we could influence how some citizens think and behave, and in my opinion we have no business doing so.

If Thai society fails, our solution is to leave. That option isnt open to the vast majority of Thais. Even thought many of us have stakes in Thailand, those stakes arent the same as for a Thai.

And too, our knowledge of the issues will seldom be of the same depth as is the case with many Thais.

Expats by all means should be fully aware of the demonstrations, and that might includes looking at them with your own eyes to make your own opinion on the likely risks.

But to participate in these demonstrations is unfair to Thais, abusive of our positions as guests, potentially harmful to other expats, and downright risky and foolish.

[LevelHead]

I was there when the farang spoke on stage and his accent was english not american or canadian. His Thai was very good.

He was also fully aware of the consequences and expected to be arrested and deported demonstrating that free speach was a myth here.

Reporters Without Borders worldwide press freedom index 2005 ranked Thailand 107th out of 167 countries dropped from 59th in 2004

It has since got worse not better.

In its 2010 report, Human Rights Watch praised Abhisit's rhetoric but dismissed his record, noting, "The government continually undermined respect for human rights and due process of law in Thailand."

Well said.

Its a common Yellow Shirt / PAD / Elite lie that things were worse under Thaksin and the proof is out there for all to see.

THailand has under the Yellow influence now become a lot worse in terms of corruption, double standard application of the law, human rights. The due process of Law is now under total Yellow control, and so it is biased and no longer balanced.

Checks and Balance no longer exist in Thailand.

The Classic example is the Yellow shirt screams for attention :

They say " This protest is all about white washing Thaksin and getting his money back".

However, we have already seen the coup leaders white washed and made immune.

So how come its ok for some to be immune but not others then ? Thaksin is accused of it, but others have already done it and are Yellow hero's ? This is where the Yellow shirts/PAD fall down the big hole they dug, and why they are marching down the route in great ignorance of the fact the people see clearly now what they are doing.

PTV was shut down as the people could see reality and not rely totally on the biased media moguls Yellow versions of events. Thailand needs PTV working and ASTV, to allow people to see both sides and decide for themselves.

Shutting PTV down was a massive error and it appears very much against the constitution of Thailand.

[bkksteviejai]

Please tell me this is a belated April 1st type story. What the f*** are they doing, on stage!..... I hope they can read / understand Thai to a high level, otherwise how could you ever really form your own opinoin of whats happening here.

It just aint any of my business. Full stop.

[NativeBob]

What a perfect opportunity with the wife away at the rally to spend the day at home surfing porn in peace and quiet.

! perfect solution ! make wank not war :-))))

[bramds]

Isn't this what Americans always do? Get involved where not needed.

I remember some places like Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan (2x), Iraq, covert in South America.

It's in their genes, they can't seem to help it.

[flemmie]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

I have been to many countries in my career and can assure you that Thailand has pretty broad freedom of speech. The fact that we can comment, and may I say quite critically sometimes, in this forum, is part of that freedom of speech.

As far as social justice is concerned, that is pretty much in the eye of the beholder.

Take your fight to your own country, the Thais can do it without you.

[z9999]

This Red Shirt demonstration is about freedom! Freedom of speech, social justice and freedom of the press/TV. these are things we in the West we take for granted! the Thais are demonstrating for their freedom, Democracy, social justice, these are the elements of democracy. The press Thai and International want you to believe it is about Taksin, it is not about Taksin, it is about democracy. The Thai elite have held 24 coo's undermining democracy in this country Thailand. The elite Bangkokians are 20% of the population they own 60% of the income and wealth in this country. It seems it is OK to come and enjoy the hospitality of Thailand, but when Thailand needs support from the resident Farang's who enjoy these simple freedoms in their home country, Farangs turn coward and run to their safety and security of "jeaprodizing their stay visa" in Thailand, cowards! Where did your fore fathers get their freedom? It was never given to them, they had to take it. Go back home and take your pension income, from your rich country with you, or stand up for human rights, freedom and show what it means to cme from a country with democracy, or have you forgotten?

I guess you already bought a one way ticket Phuket-Bangkok? Feel free to do so, but don't patronize and insult foreigners here who like me fail to see things like you do or don't wish to participate physically in a struggle which is not theirs. My forefathers fought for their freedom and democracy in their OWN country. I may remind you that the yellow shirt movement when they were protesting on the streets also claimed to fight for democracy and freedom against a corrupt government. It would make a nice cartoon to see the foreign redshirts fighting in the streets against foreign yellow shirts. It is already quite ridiculous on this forum....

I agree, I've lived here off and on since 1967, and now permanently for well over a decade. I feel that we, non-Thai citizens, should remain quiet in the public but have no problem with presenting a view in private among friends.

Democracy has a place in government, but ONLY at the lowest levels of government. The U.S. was founded as a Republic, and NOT as a Democracy.