Foreigners Joining Red-Shirts Rally

[anotherpeter]

What "irks" me as an American (living and working in LOS) is seeing Americans getting involved when they don't even protest outwardly in their own country because they're chickens. Here in LOS, they act like they're into the "democracy scene" but don't understand the corruption or Thaksin connection to it.

Ahhh you saw me down there and you assumed I don't protest in America because I'm a chicken. How did you reach these conclusions about me? Please tell. I understand the Thaksin and corruption connections to the Red movement AND I understand the questionable men and corruption connections to opposing groups. Given all Pluses and Minuses, I choose Red.

How about choosing to move forward? Choosing to remove the corruption in Thai society?

Rather than moving back to a criminal who took corruption to a new level in Thailand.

[FreedomDude]

I've been attending the Red Shirt rallys at Rajaprasong with my Thai wife and a couple of times with my daughter. I'm not wearing Red or cheering/clapping, but I'm adding another body to the crowd. I do support their cause. I may not be a Thai citizen, but I have an obvious interest in the future of this country since other factors have led to the necessity of my family living here. I'm not an idiot, I've stayed as well informed as possible over the past 4 years I've been here. Read the Bangkok Post, Herald Tribune, Economist, Thai journalist blogs.

Anyone think I shouldn't be participating? I wholeheartedly disagree.

if you have read about all things related to this saga you would realize that things can and often do turn ugly and many people have died before.

if you value your life and your families life then take that into consideration next time you join the democracy crusade

other wise you just might end up being another body on the slab

Fear! Fear! Stay inside! Stay in your shell! Dare not to change the status quo! Just do what you're told!

No thanks. I'll take the risk, a risk that in my educated opinion is less than the chance of death on my motorbike taxi ride today after work.

[toybits]

Do you feel the same way about Burma? There was an American who swam across a lake, jumped over a fence to get into the house where Aung San Suu Kyi was being detained.

What "irks" me as an American (living and working in LOS) is seeing Americans getting involved when they don't even protest outwardly in their own country because they're chickens. Here in LOS, they act like they're into the "democracy scene" but don't understand the corruption or Thaksin connection to it.

[Tod Daniels]

Foreigners here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" have about as much right in joining the "red-plague" of protesters as illegal aliens do protesting in America. That would be NONE.

While I totally disagree with the brain-washed, sock-puppet, wanna-b-thai, foreigners who say we are 'guests' in this country; I will agree our rights are severely limited in more ways than I care to count. Last time I checked, I’ve paid my own way every single day I've lived here. That is about as far from the definition of a 'guest' as it could be. I say let the thais figure out their own problems, and other than commenting on it, we have little if any impact other than as “P/R pawns”

It's always a great publicity stunt to see an ignorant foreigner (what ever their nationality, as ignorance knows no boundaries) get up on stage and then reaffirm his ignorance in BOTH thai politics and thai language to the masses. Who was that thai-gurl with him btw his grand-daughter? Oh and great ‘comb-over’ too, btw!!

I too spent MANY hours wandering the Rajprasong intersection this last week and chatting to the thais, (in thai) about the situation and its possible resolution. (although I was not wearing a frickin’ red shirt!! ). Most thais I spoke to seemed LONG on parroting the mindless rhetoric spewed out by their illustrious leaders, yet when questioned about anything of substance they were awfully short on any solution to get the country back on track.

I mentioned the fact that Thaksin had dissolved the lower house 7 months BEFORE he was kicked out by the Army, as well as that when thailand had elections after that BOTH TIMES the parties aligned with the old TRT won; but didn’t do anything to change either the constitution OR better the welfare for the poor. It was WAY OVER THEIR HEADS and they immediately fell back on the old thai catch all phrase, “You don’t understand thai culture. ..” They are awfully short on a basic understanding of recent thai political history, especially to be protesting for reforming a system which they seem to not have a clue about how is run in the first place.

In other news, did you notice how quick the redz came out and said the US had no business in an "internal thai matter" when the State Department criticized the redz storming of Government House? Strange I thought last week when the same US State Department said the redz exercised restraint; they were crowing that the US was in the redz corner. Quite the about face, even for redz, but then again they are quite selective in their 'fair and balanced' take on all things thai.

As an aside; enough with the American bashing, as I’ve stated already ignorance knows no country boundaries, and I’ve met as many ignorant britz, auzziez, kiwiz, scotch, -insert your home nationality here- as I have Americans.

[Bagwan]

50,000 people at 20,000 THB each. Big money, a billion by my reckoning. Where's the moron with the yellow Humvee when you need him?

The numbers put the right complexion on Thaksins 73 billion THB - only part of his rake off.

Does anybody seriously think that Thaksin is providing the finance for all this trouble out of philanthropy and compassion for those living in rural areas? It is blindly obvious what he is after and ANYTHING, ANYTHING, would be better than another dose of him and his corrupt cohorts, most of whom haven't the talent to run a whelk stall.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Bagwan

[Nokhuk]

Spelling?? britz, auzziez, kiwiz, scotch

At least show your masyery of English .... Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Scots ....... or maybe you afre full of the SCOTCH!!!

As an aside; enough with the American bashing, as I’ve stated already ignorance knows no country boundaries, and I’ve met as many ignorant , -insert your home nationality here- as I have Americans.

[cougar52]

As a point of interest is their actually a law down on paper that forbids foreigners from participating in rallies or does it come under the all encompassing "threat to national security" which would most probably include granny Lek enjoying a Cornetto on a hot day should they so choose.

I know of no such a general law... anyone else know?

I also do not know the specific law, however, one can be arrested, sent to jail for up to 5 years, and deported. Not to mention just knowledge of your antics may well cause you to lose your visa or extention.

www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Jail-Foreigners-Politica-t345805.html

Good advise is to be a tourist and stay out if you are not a resident or a citizen

[rheinwiese]

Looking at the replies of some of the longer term residents I am sure that their mental development is severely flawed or severely damaged in some way, the lack of political knowledge and indeed any conception of the corruption involved in the Thai political spectrum indicates that either a total lobotomy has been performed or it's a case of ''what the wife tells me I believe.''

Klose, a resident of Bangkok and Ubon Ratchathani, added that it was his third time at the protests and he was hoping a dissolution of Parliament would help resolve the current chasm.

"This is becoming a people's movement. The country has been divided in the last month and I am worried about the direction it is heading in," said Frank Klose, a German who has been living in Thailand for the past 20 years.

I am here to support freedom of speech, freedom of protest and corruption free elections. We should have a democracy without interference like in the US,"

However, he admitted he was not too knowledgeable about Thai politics, and mainly came in support of his Thai wife, who is a strong activist.

Second that !

[elcent]

How about choosing to move forward? Choosing to remove the corruption in Thai society?

Rather than moving back to a criminal who took corruption to a new level in Thailand.

under Thaksin the feedback level rose to 10 - 20% of the total gov projects values. This is money stolen from the people and workers.

Today, in the current gov, corruption is at a painstaking level again.

Instead of demonstrating, some reds should work out a scheme to help suppress this corruption. Will they?

[Sabre]

Where does joining the rally start? I have to ask this question every day before I want to go out. Living in the middle of the rally site at Rajprasong intersection I am right in the middle of the red crowd once I leave the house.

Am I participating in the rally if I buy food at one of the hundreds of little food stalls around offering tasty specialities from different parts of Thailand? Am I joining the rally when I stop and talk to people who approach me generally in a very friendly manner - even if they are wearing red? Am I joining the rally if I go out with my wife because she always asks me to accompany her because she feels scared to go out alone - but once she is out there she always finds friends and acquaintances to talk to - no matter what color they are.

In order to go on with my life as normally as possible I have no other choice than to dive into the red masses down there from time to time. I always take a strictly neutral approach and don't condemn or judge anyone as long as there is no bloodshed. If I am approached by friendly people I don't care what color they wear. With this attitude it is actually not an unpleasant experience to go down there and dive into the red crowd, taste the varieties of food they offer, listen to some music sometimes, watch people dancing and cheering and so many just being happy while I try to neglect all the political propaganda around.

Should I rather sit like a grumpy farang in my apartment and keep complaining about the noise and the mob and hope the government will send in troups to "enforce the law" and spill blood in front of my doorsteps? I have chosen not to do that and I try to make the best out of the situation without joining a particular group.

In one sense I am joining the rally and the people down there to go get some food and maybe some entertainment at times but I am certainly not joining the political propaganda rally - I am not wearing red.

And I still keep praying for a peaceful solution.

Good points but you are taking a not insignificant risk. I just hope that if and when the crackdown comes, the people cracking skulls, or firing bullets or whatever, can appreciate these fine distinctions that you draw.

[chillibilly]

Do you feel the same way about Burma? There was an American who swam across a lake, jumped over a fence to get into the house where Aung San Suu Kyi was being detained.

What "irks" me as an American (living and working in LOS) is seeing Americans getting involved when they don't even protest outwardly in their own country because they're chickens. Here in LOS, they act like they're into the "democracy scene" but don't understand the corruption or Thaksin connection to it.

+++++++++++++

Of course, it made matters worse for Aung San /Suu Kyi. I feel the same for the (stupid) young Americans who were hiking in Northern Iraq and "accidently" crossed the border into Iran. -- Plenty of places to hike, why so close to a border?

[granuaile]

...

granuale I'm sure you have profound insight into US politics, but this is Thailand and I could care less about US POLITICS at the moment

Agree. However it was specific in response to a post in which the poster accused those who were opposed to foreigners participating in the rallies of being xenophobi, lacking knowledge of the US, and in so many words anti-American...

Granuaile

[granuaile]

I have walked down to the protests a few times with my girlfriend purely to take photos. It is an amazing site to see, everyone has been friendly and in good spirits. I have seen some foreigners doing much of the same. One man i saw, American i think, was wearing a red scarf walking around. I think its ridiculous and that farangs should not get actively involved. I would not even pretend to understand Thai politics, everything i know about it comes from this site. All farangs should stay orange and not voice an opinion out of the their circle of farang friends because we know nothing anyway. At the same time i do not think it is a bad thing for any of us living here to go down and take a look. Just be aware and stay safe. And don't wear any red. I did get my gf to buy a red shirt and put it in her bag for me, just as a souvenir though. I hope its over soon but cannot imagine how it will play out. I pray for no bloodshed.

Yes, when they marched down Lat Phrao I took a couple of hundred snapshots... But I definitely stayed on the sidelines. And I refused when someone wanted to tie a red string around my wrist... not just because I don't agree with them but because I thought would be wrong...

[Sabre]

I've been attending the Red Shirt rallys at Rajaprasong with my Thai wife and a couple of times with my daughter. I'm not wearing Red or cheering/clapping, but I'm adding another body to the crowd. I do support their cause. I may not be a Thai citizen, but I have an obvious interest in the future of this country since other factors have led to the necessity of my family living here. I'm not an idiot, I've stayed as well informed as possible over the past 4 years I've been here. Read the Bangkok Post, Herald Tribune, Economist, Thai journalist blogs.

Anyone think I shouldn't be participating? I wholeheartedly disagree.

if you have read about all things related to this saga you would realize that things can and often do turn ugly and many people have died before.

if you value your life and your families life then take that into consideration next time you join the democracy crusade

other wise you just might end up being another body on the slab

Fear! Fear! Stay inside! Stay in your shell! Dare not to change the status quo! Just do what you're told!

No thanks. I'll take the risk, a risk that in my educated opinion is less than the chance of death on my motorbike taxi ride today after work.

So you justify one potentially reckless action by reference to an even more reckless action. 'B isn't risky because I do A, and that's riskier.'

You might be advised to study a bit about the history of such crackdowns in Thailand. Usually there is a bit of shooting at first, and a number of people are killed and a number wounded. Then they make everybody in the place lie down on the ground, facefirst with their hands above their heads. Anyone who doesn't comply is shot or beaten. Then they load everyone onto trucks and take them off to prison (if you're unlucky people will be stacked 5 or 6 high, and a number will suffocate). Something I would rather avoid, but you have your educated opinion and all.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Sabre

[kurtgruen]

Looking at the replies of some of the longer term residents I am sure that their mental development is severely flawed or severely damaged in some way, the lack of political knowledge and indeed any conception of the corruption involved in the Thai political spectrum indicates that either a total lobotomy has been performed or it's a case of ''what the wife tells me I believe.''

Klose, a resident of Bangkok and Ubon Ratchathani, added that it was his third time at the protests and he was hoping a dissolution of Parliament would help resolve the current chasm.

"This is becoming a people's movement. The country has been divided in the last month and I am worried about the direction it is heading in," said Frank Klose, a German who has been living in Thailand for the past 20 years.

I am here to support freedom of speech, freedom of protest and corruption free elections. We should have a democracy without interference like in the US,"

However, he admitted he was not too knowledgeable about Thai politics, and mainly came in support of his Thai wife, who is a strong activist.

If he is supporting corruption free elections, then why is he at a red rally???

[LevelHead]

Well done to him and well done to any foreigners joining the rallies.

It would appear many people on here support the Burmese Junta and say "thats their problem, keep out" and they support Mugabe in Zimbabwe and say "thats their problem, keep out".

Its rather lucky that foreigners invaded Nazi Germany or else that would never have ended.

Any human being has a right to be interested in the well-being and the freedom of another, regardless of race and religion.

He was expressing his opinion, which he is entitled to do. There is no law against it.

You live in the world, borders and governments are not recognized by Mother Nature or God - they are an invention of people who wish to control others.

Well done, and hopefully more foreigners will join the reds, it makes it much more difficult for the government to use violence !!!! And thats a good thing.

[animatic]

Do you feel the same way about Burma? There was an American who swam across a lake, jumped over a fence to get into the house where Aung San Suu Kyi was being detained.

What "irks" me as an American (living and working in LOS) is seeing Americans getting involved when they don't even protest outwardly in their own country because they're chickens. Here in LOS, they act like they're into the "democracy scene" but don't understand the corruption or Thaksin connection to it.

OK Chilly, how do you explain the Anti-Abortionists, Anti-Death Penalty crews, Anti-Vivisectionists, Anti-Meat eaters,

Anti-Fur, Anti-Tax, Anti-war, Anti-ACLU, Anti-Clinton, Anti-Obama, Anti-Gay, Anti-gun, Pro-gun, Teaparty and Birthers,

assorted militias against New world Order...

and oh hel_l the list of active protesters in USA is nearly endless.

One nutter Yank in Burma doesn't make the whole cake rotten.

Yetaw was not compass mentis.

Edited April 9, 2010 by animatic

[bacchanal]

However, he admitted he was not too knowledgeable about Thai politics, and mainly came in support of his Thai wife

Looking at the replies of some of the longer term residents I am sure that their mental development is severely flawed or severely damaged in some way, the lack of political knowledge and indeed any conception of the corruption involved in the Thai political spectrum indicates that either a total lobotomy has been performed or it's a case of ''what the wife tells me I believe.''

an accurate assessment

[way2muchcoffee]

Well done to him and well done to any foreigners joining the rallies.

It would appear many people on here support the Burmese Junta and say "thats their problem, keep out" and they support Mugabe in Zimbabwe and say "thats their problem, keep out".

Its rather lucky that foreigners invaded Nazi Germany or else that would never have ended.

Any human being has a right to be interested in the well-being and the freedom of another, regardless of race and religion.

He was expressing his opinion, which he is entitled to do. There is no law against it.

You live in the world, borders and governments are not recognized by Mother Nature or God - they are an invention of people who wish to control others.

Well done, and hopefully more foreigners will join the reds, it makes it much more difficult for the government to use violence !!!! And thats a good thing.

So why aren't you there now? You clearly support their endeavors with every ounce of your being. Therefore it is unconscionable that you are not out there with them right now. The only possible excuses are the (1) you aren't in country, or (2) cowardice.

Edited April 9, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[SGhawker]

Well done to him and well done to any foreigners joining the rallies.

It would appear many people on here support the Burmese Junta and say "thats their problem, keep out" and they support Mugabe in Zimbabwe and say "thats their problem, keep out".

Its rather lucky that foreigners invaded Nazi Germany or else that would never have ended.

Any human being has a right to be interested in the well-being and the freedom of another, regardless of race and religion.

He was expressing his opinion, which he is entitled to do. There is no law against it.

You live in the world, borders and governments are not recognized by Mother Nature or God - they are an invention of people who wish to control others.

Well done, and hopefully more foreigners will join the reds, it makes it much more difficult for the government to use violence !!!! And thats a good thing.

Another chicken needs brainwash big time but unfortunately sound uncurable

[ChiangMaiFun]

I am a foreigner living in Thailand now for more than 20 years. I have my opinions about this and many other situations here in Thailand , and I feel free to express them...... WITHIN my circle of friends and accquantainces, but not on a stage in a public rally. That is not my place.

We foreigners are GUESTS in this country. Any foreigner who publically protests at a open rally, such as is going on in BKK now, is trying to upset/overthrow the government and should be escorted to the airport and deported immediately.

People should know better, when to open and when to keep their mouths closed and opinions to themselves. There are places to express your opinions, but on stage or at a public rally is definitely not one of them.

Immigration, pick them up and show them the door.

Apparently the Thai wife [some of whom can become very rabid with their opinions] have them by the short and curlies. The effect is that these foreigners are not thinking , but reacting with the wrong head.

My opinion is foreigners open you mouth in protest, close the door to this country that we all love as guests in a beautiful place.

OMHO

whatever my sympathies I do agree... rather foolish I'd say at my most generous and bloody stupid if I'm more honest - not our place - rant on here and amongst friends is fine - but that's it

[neverdie]

Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this, but you wouldn't catch me up there. I guess some people just can't see outside the square or past tommorrow.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Well done to him and well done to any foreigners joining the rallies.

It would appear many people on here support the Burmese Junta and say "thats their problem, keep out" and they support Mugabe in Zimbabwe and say "thats their problem, keep out".

Its rather lucky that foreigners invaded Nazi Germany or else that would never have ended.

Any human being has a right to be interested in the well-being and the freedom of another, regardless of race and religion.

He was expressing his opinion, which he is entitled to do. There is no law against it.

You live in the world, borders and governments are not recognized by Mother Nature or God - they are an invention of people who wish to control others.

Well done, and hopefully more foreigners will join the reds, it makes it much more difficult for the government to use violence !!!! And thats a good thing.

No I think you are wrong here... I am redder than yellower - but farangs should limit their comments to here and amongst friends - we should not be personally on stages - not our issue not our country

[Sabre]

Here is the story of two american college students who similarly got caught up in the protests of 1992.

[TAWP]

It would appear many people on here support the Burmese Junta and say "thats their problem, keep out" and they support Mugabe in Zimbabwe and say "thats their problem, keep out".

Please find posts that state this, Mr Strawman Argument.

[TAWP]

I don't think we should be too hard on the man. He is obviously ill-informed, but has the heart in the right place. So he was taken advantage of, as is the motto and M.O. of the Red Shirt leadership level.

Is he a fool? Yes. But he can learn until next time.

Is he in idiot? No, even if I suspect he might not be an high-achiever. But doing stupid actions does not mean the person is stupid, if they did it out of ignorance.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Wasn't there some announcement some time ago that "any foreigner found at political rallies will be deported" or some such? I remember reading that somewhere here.......

I myself have been among the red crowd a few times now, right outside my soi here in Bangna where they usually gather before moving downtown, at their big parade and today for the third time at Rajprasong intersection. My sole purpose of going there was to take pictures/video clips of the event and talk to some people if a chance arises (and so far i had that chance every single time).

To make sure i am not mistake for "one of them" i purposely wear a shirt of any colour other than red, even though i have a whole bunch of red t-shirts (it just so happens to be one of my favourite colours). I am not shy of "being mistaken for one of them" by the red shirts themselves but rather by some over-zealous cops who wants to nail some foreigner for illegally joining some political rally.

I think that we foreigners may well have our opinions about the political situation and of course also support one side or the other and discuss that in forums, however i feel it is not our business to actually join a rally and show that support "live". At least not as long as we don't hold Thai ID cards.

And nope, i didn't join the yellow crowds either.

Kind regards.....

Thanh

[Thai at Heart]

Well done to him and well done to any foreigners joining the rallies.

It would appear many people on here support the Burmese Junta and say "thats their problem, keep out" and they support Mugabe in Zimbabwe and say "thats their problem, keep out".

Its rather lucky that foreigners invaded Nazi Germany or else that would never have ended.

Any human being has a right to be interested in the well-being and the freedom of another, regardless of race and religion.

He was expressing his opinion, which he is entitled to do. There is no law against it.

You live in the world, borders and governments are not recognized by Mother Nature or God - they are an invention of people who wish to control others.

Well done, and hopefully more foreigners will join the reds, it makes it much more difficult for the government to use violence !!!! And thats a good thing.

The ridiculous thing is that there would be every chance that a foreigner could get scooped up, charged with attending an illegal protest, sentenced and deported whilst every single one of the Thai protesters (excluding the leaders) would be very unlikely to face any charges whatsoever.

It would be nice if the country didn't get quite so het up about foreigners participating in ANYTHING, but on this one I would recommend that foreigners stay away from the protests unless you want to be made an example of.

[VMAX]

A couple of times the government announced that if foreigners get involved in these protests they will be arrested and deported. I would be cautious about anyone wanting to join in.

If this guy is more intelligent than he appears [unlikely] he would be leaving town for quite a while....fool!The possible repercussions are enormous for him and others who forget that they are only visiters here.

[Bengt]

Please stay out of Thailand domestic problems