Tourists Shaken As Bloodshed Erupts In Bangkok

[newtronbom]

Well said and very accurate. It still amazes me, how restrained both police and army have been, given the level of provocation. Standing in the heat all day, listening to insults and being told to do nothing, would strain the patience of even a proffessional, let alone some under paid, raw recruit. As you rightly point out, any officer worth his stripes would be prepared for the possibility of live firing, especially given the track record of these protesters. There are too many "armchair generals" posting in this thread.

Not a good idea to have live rounds at all. In the stress and heat of a situation, it is very easy for a soldier to load the wrong bullets or forget if has rubber or live rounds in the weapon. Even if the army was shooting into the air the bullets will fall back to earth and potentially injure or kill someone.

It amazes me that people with absolutely NO IDEA and NO EXPERIENCE in the field think they know best. Coming from this type of background I can tell you theres absolutely no way I would be taking orders to walk into this situation without live amunition.

Wake up and smell the coffee, this is the real world not the movies, do you think the bad guys actually annouce their intention to switch to real weapons allowing the military to retreat and gather up their arms before the action starts.

[Cynical]

As many posters have already said, it is not our problem and we should stay away from the violent areas. If we happen to reside there, then stay at home and don't go out unless it's absolutely necessary (during the day would be best).

The people who run this lovely country will do whatever they want to keep control. Thaksin will 'never' be allowed back and although some of his puppets will hold political positions in the newly elected government, it will be a coalition, as it had always been before he bought the position in the first election.

Lets not forget, this is not a first world country and therefore 'our' preconceptions of how political parties, soldiers, policemen and protesters should and shpuld not act is irrelevant.

This current instability will take its course, more people will die, the military will not intervene and sometime at the end of the year there will be new elections. When all the votes are counted, Thaksin's minions will be the minority in a coalition government.

[DickFarang]

May the Martyrs of 10^th April rest in peace and may this country, one day, become a Democracy.

[Hermanus]

Wow, holy crap. But it IS their fault for staying so close to the "danger zone".

I am crying almost whole the day what they are doing with this country. The red- and the yellow and black. Why why Abashit you dont give new elections and stop with hitting pour civilians and forengers now also.

No they could not know that they where in the danger zone and it is not their fault but the fault of the management from the hotel not to tell them.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Hermanus

[SanSaiExPat]

A quote from a posting on today's live update states exactly this from the red shirts;-

"Did anybody inform the king that his children were killed in the middle of the road without justice?" Reds' leader Jatuporn Prompan asked protesters. "Is there anyone close to him who told him of the gunfights?"

Likewise it has to be asked >>> Has anybody informed those "authorities" about a particular Red Shirt offshore web site that totally slams those

they are calling on to "intervene".

The vile stuff coming from that web site would be enough to put them in jail if they could get their hands on them or maybe face execution, if Thailand has such punishment.

Sounds like you've probably informed them. LOL It’s always pleasant to hear from the local political commissar to make sure we get a balanced view point.

[soihok]

Passing judgement and opinion on internal political problems is fruitless. Sad but true. The ruling elite of Thailand, regardless of what color shirt they wear (sponsor) are determined to maintain power no matter who suffers or dies. They exploit the poor by advancing populist low interest loan programs, 30 Baht health care , buying a Premier Football Team and opening a 'Football Academy'(remember that one folks?), what ever it takes to win an election and stay in office. If a party is found to have violated voting laws through bribery and vote buying, just form a new party with whoever is left!!!

Our reflex sentiment is to try and cast our right and wrong values on a people who for the most part, aren't even woriied about month end bills! Try driving a car daily and count the number of traffic infractions you witness. How many times do we shake our heads at the site of a baby in the arms of a mother on the back of a motorcycle. The point is, Thailand and it's people, eletist or otherwise will do whatever they think serves their own immediate needs and agenda. Our values mean zip.

Fourteen years of marriage, three kids, houses, cars, business should have brought me a level of understanding and insight. But the longer I'm here, the further away I am from figuring out our lovely hosts.

This has been about the most sensible post made.

[TAWP]

Let's look at this image.

Different people will see different things.

I for instance make note that the man to the right of the crying woman is clearly pro-Thaksin (with his I <3 DUBAI t-shirt). And seem to highlight the point that many pro-reds here try to explain away. Thaksin's grip on the reds are far deeper than they would like to admit. Because even many Red-fans [on TV] seem to recognize that Thaksin is NOT valid spokesman for democracy and peace. And hence, any win by the reds, in my opinion, will only pave the road for Thaksin to come back and pillage the country again. If that is what you want, fine, stand up and say so. Or that you don't mind that he rapes the rest of the nation as long as Your village get 1M baht allocated to it. Fine. But don't then try to pretend it has anything to do with democracy.

[TPI]

If the intention of the security forces was to disperse the protesters using international standards - the burning question has to be is why where troops and police issued with both live rounds and rubber bullets -- if the intention was for the sole purpose of the operation was to disperse the protesters the army should never have been provided with live rounds unless the real intention was to use them - u dont go to play golf without a golf club - and if live rounds were issued -= who ordered them and who gave the orders to fire directly at the protesters as was plain to see on the various news coverages on tv and eye witness reports --- i would say that over 95% of the young troops used in this operation have never been in a conflict situation and were untrained in handling a conflct situation like this - and as such many would have panicked -- i know i was the first time i was shot at -- as would most viet vets -- but some of u computer desk jockeys would never know - but happy to pass comment about nothing u know about - always the experts -- u dont go duck shooting if u dont intend to shoot ducks -- so its going to be very intersting to see what the finding of the so called investigation in to the events of saturday come up with - i am sure they will be very transparent - like looking from the back of a mirror --

if you were a tourist in a foreign country and perhaps had just arrived and were going out to explore the city and were not up to date about what was happeneing and had not been advised there was trouble on the streets how could she possibly know what was going on - and she was shot as she walked out of the hotel -- but u must be the smart one -- with these sort of comments - nuff said -

Agreed, these soldiers (the sons of fellow Thai's) have been insulted and and abused both physically and mentally for a couple of days, they see the faces of the protesters distorted by the frenzy of the speeches from the stage and they appear not to be "human" and their intentsions are not full of "peace and brotherly love" (I've been there and your spinkter is really puckered) This face screams the most insulting words in your culture, he's not Thai, POP! Next!

Soldiers know that the collective IQ of a "mob" is the total of their shoe sizes divided by their total age!

"Mobs" can never be allowed to win, "demonstrations" are always allowed to voice their opinion.

[humqdpf]

I could not help noticing that the tourist quoted in the report said that they needed valium to sleep after their experience of the riots and killings on Saturday night. Bad enough that the fighting and deaths are for tourism, I hope that the tourists who resort to valium have remembered to bring a valid prescription for the drug to the kingdom! If not, they could face prosecution under the arcane laws that are only used against foreigners - see previous reports about a young European guy facing a year in jail for possession of 2 valium tabs without a prescription. There have also been reports of tourists being searched at Ekkamai bus station for possession of prescription drugs without a prescription - they seem to target Viagra and valium but I have heard about rumours of even medicine like life-preserving heart and blood pressure medicine being targeted! If appears that in Ekkamai you have to pay between 2000baht and 4000baht to the cops to stop you from being taken away for trial, which could take months anyway and you could face a year or two in jail if found guilty.

By the way, this is despite the Tourism Authority of Thailand telling tourists that they will NOT be bothered if they possess a maximum of one month dosage! How that is arrived at I am not sure!

Yet another reason not to visit the land of smiles!

[ralph02]

I have been around Kao San since the fighting happened. The tourists that are saying they where injured or caught up in riot are the fools that strayed into the trouble area of there own doing thinking that I might go have a look.

Well before the fighting started tourists on Kao San where herded away from the area, there where police and army everywhere, a mad muppet would know not to go near the fighting.

The stories you are reading about tourists being injured or involved in the riot where bought on by themselves and what more could they expect when they ignore common sense and get near the action ?

What concerns me is that uninformed people overseas reading this thread could possibly come to the conclusion that tourists where being targeted which is light years from the truth and the exact opposite applies.

The Reds and the authorities have gone all out to not involve the tourists in Thailands political problems but some recalcitrant tourists deliberately place themselves in the danger zone then decide to talk it up in the media and in-turn cause un necessary concern amongst ordinary tourists who have the brains to stay well away from the fighting zone.

A small example is the tourists that I spotted kitted out in red shirts and head bands. I mean what fool would deliberately want to do this ?

In conclusion, at no time did the fighting extend on to Kao San road but it was happening at the intersection at the top of Kao San and as we speak the tourists are still sitting on Kao San enjoying a beer and all is quiet.

[tomyummer]

Hey, another Japanese journalist/photographer killed? It seems it's not a full fledged protest unless a Japanese reporter gets killed first. I believe one was shot during the Burmese uprising back in 2007? Hope it's not a trend. Yikes.

[RWA]

These sort of events ARE watched by tourists that naturally have a facination with these 'out of the norm' events. I was in France with some friends, completely unaware of why the streets had filled with people and lots of shouting. 1st natural thought was what was going on? so we went to look. Exited swiftly when it became serious. Were we 'stupid' to go and look at this strange occurence? No, because we didn't know something 'serious' was going on. Any one of us could have been hurt. Not through stupidity, just by enjoying a holiday and watching strange events without any early signs of any danger. Not all protests/gatherings end in violence. Very bad luck if you do get caught in the crossfire of a protest gone bad, particularly if you're enjoying your holiday.

yeah, well ... so out of this "natural fascination", whilst "enjoying holiday and watching", you would march up straight to the armed foreign soldier in his duty and spit your English "&lt;deleted&gt; you!" right into his face !!!! that's a very smart and natural way how to enjoy your "excursion to the warming up foreign street event" ...

no matter what - there's simply NO excuse to this farang tourist behavior ... it's just a sheer stupidity, arrogance, disrespect and somnamnaaa! ... full stop!

and by the way: "beerchang", your say:

[" I'll stand where you want and you fire into the air. If you hit me in the ribs, from the side, with a bullet which has lost almost all of it's kinetic energy, you win! Very best of luck to yer!" ... just wonder what sort of background/experience you do really have to challenge the comment of "manarak" regarding to a bullet velocity and kinetics? He's totally right, speaking of knowledge! ... if you'd have the courage, enough time and patience, piece of paper and calculator - I'll take up on your own daring "knowledgeable" words - so you'll got the hit, without the doubt man!

to "neverdie": can't agree with you more !

but anyways ... these are just small things, however tragic they're not really significant ... i'm still looking for an answer to "why"?!!! ... why this all mess and damage? ... do all these Thai people ever bother to use their brains to see a bit more further or deeper than what they have just eaten? ... I must be missing a lot, for I still don't understand this situation and "red's" intentions - other than following some very ill-minded, selfish and short-sighted lead ...?! Wasn't this all triggered when the result of court processing about Taksin's blocked funds has been announced?

Don't they see this poor country being in very serious economic problems caused directly and indirectly by this Taksin? Haven't they noticed how all prices are raising up in order to balance all lost? ... Can't they see this sick-megalomaniac, power and money greedy Taksin individual - stealing from them personally (30 baht health insurance) and stealing from a whole country (major corporations and projects), raping this country of it's dignity and reputation, cheating and all-times lying to them? Playing a "god" manipulating their simple minds into a plain suicide? Individual as well as global?

And when, after all long proper proceedings, the rightful and fair decisions to seize the fraction of Taksin dirty funds has been finally made, these people go on fighting and killing to protest against that? ... To me, it's like this government says: ... "okay people, here is a bit of what has been stolen from us, to help us to compensate some lost and damages done, so lets get to work on better "tomorrow" now..." ... and people respond: ... " no. no. no !!! we don't want this money for Thailand and for ourselves! we love and respect the one who's the criminal on run, ... we don't miss our national telecommunication provider, we don't care he ran away with our 30 baht health insurance we (a millions of millions of real poor people've paid in good faith - so, if not for this new "oh-so-bad" government, a waste number of hospitals and clinics went bankrupt already!), we don't mind he'd been stealing money from our biggest int. airport - so it almost fall apart right after it's big opening, we don't mind he's been making a fool of all of us and still does - just for his personal wealth and pleasure/satisfaction, we can't see he's just a dangerous, sick in head gambler, showman and coward, with a total lack of concern for his-mother country and people well being ... we, a mass of poor people of Thailand, are happy to pay double or even triple price for our daily rice, we are pleased with all prices going up and national economy going down, we are trilled to watch our main industries falling apart, we are all excited to see how's our national reputation of one - for a century recognized - peaceful, yet strong and tough minded, stable and safe country is been shuttered to a pieces ... we, the RED-SHIRTED people of Thailand are here to scream: we don't want any better, we won't do our normal work to help to grow and make up for all damages done, we don't want what's rightfully belong to us - we want our beloved Taksin to have it and enjoy his idiotic passions, ok, we might be f@cked for another decades of years, but we want to see him buying another football club or whatever and have a good fun and laugh at us ... now we going to spill our blood and this of our brothers, we are going to provoke everything what can bring us any better so to make sure there will be people dying and our and our kids future life will be as difficult as possible! ... simply: we want to suffer if we only can see our dear Taksin be pleased ... and we will die for it!

... so what do I miss here ... can some one explain it to me, please?

I was listening to a bits of radio broadcasting of that meeting Mr.Aphisit held with these protester's leaders ... not only he extended this planed one hour session to 2 days hearing of total idiotic nonsense they were shouting at him, but he didn't lost his intelligent, well articulated reasoning, human respect and patience for this whole ridiculous bunch, for even one second! I will never understand how some one so well educated, intelligent, polite, reasonable and truly considerate, could manage any understanding for such a long - useless hours without losing his temper and goodwill !!!?

If I was Thai, I would be very, very proud of such a country leader and representative, especially after this clown Taksin era ...!!!

give him all credits, respect and support possible - looking up to the brighter future instead of threshing up whatever we have left here to the pieces

[RWA]

Passing judgement and opinion on internal political problems is fruitless. Sad but true. The ruling elite of Thailand, regardless of what color shirt they wear (sponsor) are determined to maintain power no matter who suffers or dies. They exploit the poor by advancing populist low interest loan programs, 30 Baht health care , buying a Premier Football Team and opening a 'Football Academy'(remember that one folks?), what ever it takes to win an election and stay in office. If a party is found to have violated voting laws through bribery and vote buying, just form a new party with whoever is left!!!

Our reflex sentiment is to try and cast our right and wrong values on a people who for the most part, aren't even woriied about month end bills! Try driving a car daily and count the number of traffic infractions you witness. How many times do we shake our heads at the site of a baby in the arms of a mother on the back of a motorcycle. The point is, Thailand and it's people, eletist or otherwise will do whatever they think serves their own immediate needs and agenda. Our values mean zip.

Fourteen years of marriage, three kids, houses, cars, business should have brought me a level of understanding and insight. But the longer I'm here, the further away I am from figuring out our lovely hosts.

This has been about the most sensible post made.

AMEN to this!

[wallhigh]

som nam na... some thai people got what they wanted... loss of tourists,

loss of jobs, loss of reputation, loss of face...

[horndevil]

As reported numerous times, and actually shown on Thai television

Perhaps you need to pay attention to the international media for a more balanced perspective.

To address the rest of your post, the reds have been given a green light by Government, Police and Judicial inaction over the yellow shirt actions. If they were dealt with in the first place, none of this red shirt nonsense would ever have happened.

I dont agree with that, Yes if the government actually went and arrested the Yellow leadership it will show that the hold the law above mere politics, but feel that the Reds would have done the same either way. They want to be in power (same as the Yellow wanted power) and will do anything to get it.

I feel that all politicians are self serving, power hungry people and think that Abhisit is better than most others that came before him.

[red devil]

It is pretty obvious that many of the people that write their opinions on here are not native speakers due to the number of grammatical and spelling errors. The many references to the "farang" would confirm this. Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but many of the derogatory comments about the tourists are without solid foundation.

Edited April 12, 2010 by red devil

[YORKSHIREPUD]

those tourists were taken by surprise what happened to them - the old town is for the genuine tourists the most interesting part of bangkok and many would like to stay as close to it as possible.

for the last month it was a peaceful area, yestarday events shocked everyone, thai and foreigners.

bullets and tear gas can be fired from far away (those fired in air as well can injure and kill), they can land in a seemingly "peaceful" street or inside hotel room

First of all, any farange's who are stupid enough to stick their nose in the THAI protesters business deserve whatever happens to them and the worst word that you can use here in Thailand is the word &lt;deleted&gt; because almost all none English speaking Thai's understand that word and take offense to it.

Secondly for you Londonthai, A rubber bullet has little muzzle velocity and cannot be used over long range, It's very unlikely to have the ability to KILL someone.

Thirdly, It's very unlikely that a round of ammunition fired into the air will fall to earth and KILL someone.

Get real Son and get facts :D

[kimamey]

Wow, holy crap. But it IS their fault for staying so close to the "danger zone".

I am crying almost whole the day what they are doing with this country. The red- and the yellow and black. Why why Abashit you dont give new elections and stop with hitting pour civilians and forengers now also.

No they could not know that they where in the danger zone and it is not their fault but the fault of the management from the hotel not to tell them.

You can't really expect him to just give in. That's not what happens in negotiations, if it did one side would lose face and lose support. Abhisit offered earlier elections in 9 months instead of next year. That is a compromise that would have avoided all the bloodshed. The fact is was not accepted suggests democracy is not really the intention but just getting power. Even if there are elections now or in 9 months I'm not sure the losing side will accept it especially if it involves the return of Thaksin.

[aussimike]

Not sure if its the heat or just another crazy episode in thai politics --- well one this is for sure after two years of war in the streets - and the airport closures by the untouchable yellow shirts -- who is going to bother coming back here again for songkran or for that matter any other reasons to visit the "land of smile" - this has to be the death blow for the tourism sector - as if the world economy was not enough -- well maybe the PM can create a new project to plant more rubber trees and mass produce rubber duckies -=- VNAT - Vietnamese Association of tourism will be rubbing there hands in glee -the next major tourist destination - feel sorry for the hospitality industry workers also who are sure to face layoffs because of all of this --

if normal practice in riot control were applied -- and not the use of live rounds - things may have been a little different - maybe not - but without the high body count -- so much for the govt saying they were using international standards in riot control -- maybe i have missed reading something about the police and army shooting live bullets into the protesters - tear gas and water cannons are the most common methods used -

Pretty clear what side you back

You believe any red rhetoric and rants you read

Put yourself in the ARMY boots for ten seconds ..

then imagine a petrol bomb being tossed at you

What would you do?

If I as in the ARMY .... Kaboom

well sunshine i have been in army boots in the jungles of vietnam and dont assume what side i back or not - not hard to tell what one u back -- and know very well whats its like to be shot at and seen good mates killed or wounded - or even worse -- and clear to see u have never been in army boots - maybe flip flops as u walk around your village - and can u justify the use of live rounds -dont think so - intersting comment in one of the news reports about troops shooting directly into the crowd -- and i just happen to be sitting on the fence and taking in what i read and see from both reports from here and overseas --

what colour shirt u wearing today -- not hard to guess -- the sad thing is that thai are fighting thai = in fact i can hear the reds near saphan khwai bts right now --- no way will i be going out to wave to them -

[warriorneedswarrior]

Brother ,

WHen you go back tell your countrymen that how reds respecting the democracy ! Byt throwing bombs,grenades--firing openly at the soldiers with live bullets -Eventually killing their own men -whether its an accident or ordered to kill their own man by the man who cowardly sitting in Dubai to instigate a civil war- its a big question!

Such a peaceful protest that every day and night there are intimidation by throwing grenades at the places whom they think they are enemy -raid the parliament -raid the Election commssion office - raid the city halls - raid the PMs house spilling blood -making a rally site at the right infront of the hospital with loud speakers- blocking the roads - parading the whole city by honking loudly!

So brother - this is amazing Thailand !

[aussimike]

those tourists were taken by surprise what happened to them - the old town is for the genuine tourists the most interesting part of bangkok and many would like to stay as close to it as possible.

for the last month it was a peaceful area, yestarday events shocked everyone, thai and foreigners.

bullets and tear gas can be fired from far away (those fired in air as well can injure and kill), they can land in a seemingly "peaceful" street or inside hotel room

First of all, any farange's who are stupid enough to stick their nose in the THAI protesters business deserve whatever happens to them and the worst word that you can use here in Thailand is the word &lt;deleted&gt; because almost all none English speaking Thai's understand that word and take offense to it.

Secondly for you Londonthai, A rubber bullet has little muzzle velocity and cannot be used over long range, It's very unlikely to have the ability to KILL someone.

Thirdly, It's very unlikely that a round of ammunition fired into the air will fall to earth and KILL someone.

Get real Son and get facts :D

the comments on this topic amaze me with so many experts - now we have a ballistics expert on the use of rubber bullets not causing bodily harm - really -- news to me - they can kill if they happen to hit a vital spot like the head or body at close range -- and suggest u google on the law of physics - what goes up must come down and with the same terminal volocity -- many people are killed overseas in countries where they fire live round in the air for festivities - perhaps u would not mind being hit in the head by a falling round -

[rufanuf]

Acrington Stanley

[yoshiwara]

Wow, holy crap. But it IS their fault for staying so close to the "danger zone".

I am crying almost whole the day what they are doing with this country. The red- and the yellow and black. Why why Abashit you dont give new elections and stop with hitting pour civilians and forengers now also.

No they could not know that they where in the danger zone and it is not their fault but the fault of the management from the hotel not to tell them.

New elections are already scheduled.

Just not at the time Thaksin wants so that he can put his family and cronies into positions of controlling the army

The violence was kicked off by the reds, but being a red cheerleader that is probably not convenient to you.

'Poor civilians'. Give me a break.

As for the management of the hotel they would probably be none the wiser than the tourists.

However, there is likely to have been a lot of people on the streets and the tourists no doubt decided to go and have a look.

They made a mistake.

Edited April 12, 2010 by yoshiwara

[elcent]

Hey, another Japanese journalist/photographer killed? It seems it's not a full fledged protest unless a Japanese reporter gets killed first. I believe one was shot during the Burmese uprising back in 2007? Hope it's not a trend. Yikes.

you haven't seen this I guess where two Reuters journalists got slaughtered together with a dozen innocent bystanders.

[elcent]

Arisaman Pongruangrong led some 300 motorcyclists to take CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong from the CAT Telecom head office at noon Monday.

The Nation

could lead to an internet blackout.

take this Arisman out, arrest him, seal him in a tight cell. This guy is insane.

[elcent]

Arisaman led the protesters to the Cat Telecom head office on Chaeng Wattana Road in Bangkok's Lak Si district at 12:30 pm.

The arrival of the red-shirt motorcyclists terrified CAT Telecom officials.

Security officials tried to prevent the protesters from entering the building.

But Arisaman nanaged to meet Jirayuth and took him out on a motorcycle.

The protesters demanded CAT Telecom to reconnect broadband connection of PTV station to the satellite uplink station.

Arisaman did not say where he led the CEO to but reporters heard Jirayuth was led to the CAT Telecom's telecom centre in Nonthaburi. --- the Nation

[lannarebirth]

Arisaman Pongruangrong led some 300 motorcyclists to take CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong from the CAT Telecom head office at noon Monday.

The Nation

could lead to an internet blackout.

take this Arisman out, arrest him, seal him in a tight cell. This guy is insane.

That's crazy talk. He's fighting for "democracy".

[AGareth2]

Does anyone know how many tourist\foreigners have been injured?

[elcent]

Arisaman Pongruangrong led some 300 motorcyclists to take CAT Telecom CEO Jirayuth Rungsrithong from the CAT Telecom head office at noon Monday.

The Nation

could lead to an internet blackout.

take this Arisman out, arrest him, seal him in a tight cell. This guy is insane.

That's crazy talk. He's fighting for "democracy".

he's a villain and therefore under arrest warrant. Democracy and democracy supporters act differently.

[Viper]

Im in England right now came back for my brothers wedding and there not letting me go back to Thailand until all this trouble cools down