An Embarrassing Fiasco For Thai Government

[puyaidon]

As I said in another article, the "Peter Principle" is alive and well here. We have seen it in action just in the past few weeks and just yesterday for sure.

[OzMick]

It's another snide piece and another nail in the coffin of journalism at Thailand's premier PAD mouthpiece. References to weight and appearance that would not be tolerated against other groups. Imagine a piece on Hilary Clinton referencing her body shape and appearance and ignoring all she said? Thats how low this pamphlet has sunk.

This was an assassination attempt. All the footage showed the room shot to bits.

They are now pinning their hopes on the Army. Are the Army going to run the country now if the Police can't?

Want to see serious loss of income, support and face for Thailand? Then let the Army go on a killing spree.

I think the smart move for the Reds is to negotiate with the Army. Then they all win, Army, Reds and business district. Leaves Mark and Thaugsabun out in the cold hoping that their 300,000 facebook supporters are enough to outvote 30 million red supporters!!

Mind you, stranger things have happened here.

smoke and stun grenades were thrown into the room before police entered, a standard practice when apprehending a possibly/likely armed fugitive by officers who would like to go home uninjured tonight. That does not constitute "shot to bits".

Please substantiate your 30,000,000 claim. UDD open letter to media claimed 14,000,000 which I regard to be CRAP. I have just returned from far NE and saw no red flags or evidence of support, but was expressly told that donations were coerced and promises made of B100,000 to all donors when T returned to office. Mr T AND HIS MONEY. That's the whole song and dance.

Leave Hilary's fat RR's out of this. When has the fat guy said anything worth listening to.

[thisismysong]

"The police wanted to kill me," he told reporters. "They wanted to kill me. There were bombs in the room." Press photos of the room later showed what looked like grenades, which police said needed to be examined before they could ascertain the types.

55555

[OzMick]

TAN Network: Army Spokesperson requested red shirts return soldiers' weapons, concerning that 3rd party would use it to frame red and/or soldiers.

An interesting statement. Logically, by saying the reds have the weapons but that they might be used by the 3rd party, it assumes they are one and the same, or at least are in co-operation. I agree.

[asiawatcher]

What a mockery all this comes to. Ineffective Police and Army covered with bright coloured medals (for what?) and mob ruling a cosmopolitan city.

A Prime Minister who is issuing orders for civility and complete ignor(ance) by those empowered to act.

A convicted criminal paying to (yes) 'terrorise' a populace and Interpol has not been called in to arrest him? Remove the head of the snake (and the money tree) and see what happens.

Thailand your time is up. You are now the laughing stock of all Asia.

If the Thai Army/Police are incapable of taking orders (as it will affect their income - poor dears) call in the US or Brits or Aussies and clear the streets of this 'mob rule'.

Allow the Govt to get on with it and in the interim sack all the heads of the Police down to Sergeant and as already mentioned in these strings, pay a starting salary above Baht 6,000 a month so they don't have to take bribes. I m sure the public here is also unaware police here have to buy their own guns meaning there is a huge market for weapons and ease of access to almost anyone.

It is well known Thailand runs as perhaps the most corrupt country in SE Asia and this 'display' of inability to control the 'out-of-control' means things need to happen and now.

[asiawatcher]

It seems pretty clear what happened.

1) The redsihrts were tipped off.

2) The police were delayed by elements in their forces and by redshirt supporters on the scene

3) By the time the police reached the leaders they were surrounded by an angry mob who has already shown the willingness to fight security forces.

4) The roads were quickly blocked by hundreds of redshirts.

5) The police were trapped, didn't have the will or the mandate to use force on the redshirt mob who had descended on the scene within minutes, and they were outnumbered.

6) Arisman's stunt was a PR gimmick, performed after the police had already been forced to give up.

Yes, there is some serious egg on the face of the RTP. They are publicly humiliated.

The only way this operation could have worked would have been to get in and out in under 10 minutes. They failed to do this.

Why they didn't temperarily sequester the staff and their cell phones,

'for their own safety' is an open question to the gods of proper law enforcement.

If they were there by 0400 why did they wait until 0900 to act??? Hmmm....

Snipers on surrounding roofs, expressway out front and cover the rear - standard procedures in taking down criminals on the run... Seems this was just a PR exercise in inability to act.

[nakachalet]

LOL.... LOL.... LOL....

animatic.... can you not make your presentation a little shorter....? yet with the same dramatic effects....?

Gill Scott Heron -

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

.....The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised,

will not be televised, will not be televised.

The revolution will be no re-run brothers;

The revolution will be live.

I have seen him perform this live twice.

Always powerful.

Now I contrast this with the Red Leaders being so insistent that

THEIR revolution MUST be Televised.

Turn back on PTV, or we rampage in the street.

Without their TV connection with the folks back home, there IS NO SPONTANEOUS REVOLUTION.

No Thakisn video connections, not international support structure for the poor down trodden reds.

No TV = no revolution.... my the worm has turned.

So as noted above : The Revolution WILL be Televised.

[grandpops]

It seems pretty clear what happened.

1) The redsihrts were tipped off.

2) The police were delayed by elements in their forces and by redshirt supporters on the scene

3) By the time the police reached the leaders they were surrounded by an angry mob who has already shown the willingness to fight security forces.

4) The roads were quickly blocked by hundreds of redshirts.

5) The police were trapped, didn't have the will or the mandate to use force on the redshirt mob who had descended on the scene within minutes, and they were outnumbered.

6) Arisman's stunt was a PR gimmick, performed after the police had already been forced to give up.

Yes, there is some serious egg on the face of the RTP. They are publicly humiliated.

The only way this operation could have worked would have been to get in and out in under 10 minutes. They failed to do this.

Why they didn't temperarily sequester the staff and their cell phones,

'for their own safety' is an open question to the gods of proper law enforcement.

Why use a word like sequester? You obviously mean Kidnap!! Oh the irony. Sequestered at gunpoint.

[nakachalet]

the police is provided with standard equipment....

but if they want anything fancier and/or with more auxiliaries.... they then would have to pay themselves....

or if you like.... you can donate one or two.... as you wish....

What a mockery all this comes to....

I m sure the public here is also unaware police here have to buy their own guns meaning there is a huge market for weapons and ease of access to almost anyone.

It is well known Thailand runs as perhaps the most corrupt country in SE Asia and this 'display' of inability to control the 'out-of-control' means things need to happen and now.

[grandpops]

What a mockery all this comes to. Ineffective Police and Army covered with bright coloured medals (for what?) and mob ruling a cosmopolitan city.

A Prime Minister who is issuing orders for civility and complete ignor(ance) by those empowered to act.

A convicted criminal paying to (yes) 'terrorise' a populace and Interpol has not been called in to arrest him? Remove the head of the snake (and the money tree) and see what happens.

Thailand your time is up. You are now the laughing stock of all Asia.

If the Thai Army/Police are incapable of taking orders (as it will affect their income - poor dears) call in the US or Brits or Aussies and clear the streets of this 'mob rule'.

Allow the Govt to get on with it and in the interim sack all the heads of the Police down to Sergeant and as already mentioned in these strings, pay a starting salary above Baht 6,000 a month so they don't have to take bribes. I m sure the public here is also unaware police here have to buy their own guns meaning there is a huge market for weapons and ease of access to almost anyone.

It is well known Thailand runs as perhaps the most corrupt country in SE Asia and this 'display' of inability to control the 'out-of-control' means things need to happen and now.

Many airports mate if you don't like it. So long as the PAD leave them open when you plan to leave. Surely it would be the final indignity for you if you had to curse the PAD for stranding you at the airport.

And please stop appologising for them. This is where the seeds to all of this were sown. If they had just left Samark, Somchia in charge they would have been voted out of office by now, and in all propability, Mark would be in his first year as Thailands best PM.

Sorry he got impatient and took the poison challis from his elite masters. HE could have been good for the country, (still may be in ten years time or so) if he was his own man...... BUT.... he isn't! FACT

[anotherpeter]

Many airports mate if you don't like it. So long as the PAD leave them open when you plan to leave. Surely it would be the final indignity for you if you had to curse the PAD for stranding you at the airport.

And please stop appologising for them. This is where the seeds to all of this were sown. If they had just left Samark, Somchia in charge they would have been voted out of office by now, and in all propability, Mark would be in his first year as Thailands best PM.

Sorry he got impatient and took the poison challis from his elite masters. HE could have been good for the country, (still may be in ten years time or so) if he was his own man...... BUT.... he isn't! FACT

You still don't understand how the system works here do you?

IF they had just left Samak or Somchai in charge, they wouldn't have been voted out of office until Dec 2011.

Because that's when the next election should be held. 4 years after the previous election.

Is that clear enough for you?

[grandpops]

TAN Network: Army Spokesperson requested red shirts return soldiers' weapons, concerning that 3rd party would use it to frame red and/or soldiers.

An interesting statement. Logically, by saying the reds have the weapons but that they might be used by the 3rd party, it assumes they are one and the same, or at least are in co-operation. I agree.

And skirting over the fact the the Army lost a ton of weapons!! AGAIN... AND.. had another game of kiss catch with the Cambodian Army this afternoon in Surin.

Anybody post that list weaponry they lost?

[grandpops]

Many airports mate if you don't like it. So long as the PAD leave them open when you plan to leave. Surely it would be the final indignity for you if you had to curse the PAD for stranding you at the airport.

And please stop appologising for them. This is where the seeds to all of this were sown. If they had just left Samark, Somchia in charge they would have been voted out of office by now, and in all propability, Mark would be in his first year as Thailands best PM.

Sorry he got impatient and took the poison challis from his elite masters. HE could have been good for the country, (still may be in ten years time or so) if he was his own man...... BUT.... he isn't! FACT

You still don't understand how the system works here do you?

IF they had just left Samak or Somchai in charge, they wouldn't have been voted out of office until Dec 2011.

Because that's when the next election should be held. 4 years after the previous election.

Is that clear enough for you?

They wouldn't have lasted that long. I am no fan of their competence and they were relying on others as well. Shows I am not as rabid in my posting as you yellows!!!

Democracy however makes no distinction! you are either voted in, or you are not. And Mark not only wasn't but he was put in with votes that were (as you rightly pointed out.. Thanks ) that were not due until next year. At least we agree on that.

[anotherpeter]

Many airports mate if you don't like it. So long as the PAD leave them open when you plan to leave. Surely it would be the final indignity for you if you had to curse the PAD for stranding you at the airport.

And please stop appologising for them. This is where the seeds to all of this were sown. If they had just left Samark, Somchia in charge they would have been voted out of office by now, and in all propability, Mark would be in his first year as Thailands best PM.

Sorry he got impatient and took the poison challis from his elite masters. HE could have been good for the country, (still may be in ten years time or so) if he was his own man...... BUT.... he isn't! FACT

You still don't understand how the system works here do you?

IF they had just left Samak or Somchai in charge, they wouldn't have been voted out of office until Dec 2011.

Because that's when the next election should be held. 4 years after the previous election.

Is that clear enough for you?

They wouldn't have lasted that long. I am no fan of their competence and they were relying on others as well. Shows I am not as rabid in my posting as you yellows!!!

Democracy however makes no distinction! you are either voted in, or you are not. And Mark not only wasn't but he was put in with votes that were (as you rightly pointed out.. Thanks ) that were not due until next year. At least we agree on that.

But that's the point isn't it. They didn't last that long.

The smaller parties were no fan of their incompetence either. So they changed their support.

The PPP got into government because of the support of the smaller parties. The PTP (ex-PPP) got out of government because they lost the support of the smaller parties.

I find it difficult to understand why the reds accept a coalition when they are in power, but do not accept a coalition when they are not.

[Scott]

A particularly nasty post suggesting killing and televising it has been deleted along with posts quoting it.

[Oberkommando]

Thailand your time is up. You are now the laughing stock of all Asia.

That has been the case for decades, this political debacle is just another chapter in a familiar history.

No wonder the Cambodians across the border are relishing the prospect of any scrap with the better equipped Thai soldiers.

[vision]

I'm not surprised at all. Almost all the "professionals" who did a job for me here in Thailand had much worst skills than amateurs in my home country. Quality is a word that's not in the Thai dictionary I presume. Meticulous planning is also not a common habbit.

I don't understand why so many accept the low quality of various products of mind and hand...

In any capacity where you need to hire "professionals" and do a quality job you either keep looking until you find the talent you need or you get re-assigned or resign from the post. Hiring sub par people and then blaming a sub par result on them is the M.O. of a sub-par manager in any country.

[hanuman1]

MCOT: Arrest attempt against UDD leaders at SC Park Hotel on Friday was not considered failure: Metropolitan Police Bureau

HAHAHA!!!

That's the funniest thing I've seen this week. First the Nation brings us gossip. Now MCOT gives us comedy. Thanks for making life so interesting!

Now I know why Thailand is actually the richest, most influential and politically developed country in the world!

[AsiaCheese]

--snip--

No wonder the Cambodians across the border are relishing the prospect of any scrap with the better equipped Thai soldiers.

I think you're missing the point here. Thais have very strong national feelings -- Thais against Thais is just not in the picture! But that's what it boils down to, whether it be police or army vs. the mob! The same nationalistic trait would however make them a scary crowd for any neighbor crossing the border...

[the fast]

I guess we will see if Thais really care about losing face. If they do we should see the Thai Police clean house. Right now the international community wouldn't let the Thai police work security at a Backstreet boys concert because they couldn't hold back a mob of teenage girls if they tried.

If you hadn't seen it you would never have believed it,the keysone cops fronted by Inspector Clouseou chasing the fat karaoke singer out on to the balcony,all for the world to see courtesy of CNN, and whisked away to the red rally stage where he didn't sing but continued with the red propogranda.I went for my coffee today and the cashier says to me ,yes they tried to kill him by throwing bombs at him in the hotel room.You cannot answer to that,it's very sad

[tracymeaw]

I note that the pink shirts rallied yesterday in defiance of the State of Emergency declared by Abhisit...I'm wondering why all the law and order fanatical farangs on here aren't calling for them to be shot by the army as lawbreakers? Perhaps we have a double standard, where it's only members of one side that the law applies to....

Perhaps because the pink demonstrators did not use grenades, rifles, and other war weapons to kill or injure some 300 security force personnel, threaten to burn BKK buildings, threaten the life of government representatives, assassinate military officers, or block a major area of the CBD in BKK for weeks in defiance of the ISA and SOE.

Just a guess mind you.

Or did they? Has the missing element or persons behind it been identified yet? (link?) Who is pushing this assassination circus?

What the post before you is describing must be what Abhisit meant when he vowed to return "normalcy".

If he were voted in by the people through a general election, I guess only then could he have vowed to return "democracy".

What a mess...

[anotherpeter]

Or did they? Has the missing element or persons behind it been identified yet? (link?) Who is pushing this assassination circus?

What the post before you is describing must be what Abhisit meant when he vowed to return "normalcy".

If he were voted in by the people through a general election, I guess only then could he have vowed to return "democracy".

What a mess...

Tracy ... how did Somchai become PM?

[animatic]

.... I find it difficult to understand why the reds accept a coalition when they are in power, but do not accept a coalition when they are not.

Very simple answer.

Because they are not in it.

Nothing like the lose of face of rejection by others to make them go mental.

[Thormaturge]

Watermelon army and tomato police. What a fruity affair.

Wait till the strawberry SWAT, rhubarb marines and rambutan rangers come into play. Then things will really kick off.

They should stick to fining the Farang tourist ThB 2,000 for dropping litter.

[tracymeaw]

Or did they? Has the missing element or persons behind it been identified yet? (link?) Who is pushing this assassination circus?

What the post before you is describing must be what Abhisit meant when he vowed to return "normalcy".

If he were voted in by the people through a general election, I guess only then could he have vowed to return "democracy".

What a mess...

Tracy ... how did Somchai become PM?

Peter, it really doesn’t matter... it was considered “normalcy” at the time that it happened!

You’re barking up the wrong tree... I think every PM should be elected by the people at the ballot box. Otherwise I feel the system has failed them (the people and the PM) and all of these "fixes" are only temporary... forcing democracy to take a back seat.

“Normalcy” in Thailand seems to mean that there are no rules, lawlessness abides, and anything can happen... unless it bothers someone higher up the food chain.

What is considered "normalcy" in Thailand? That would make a good thread... and would probably get closed in about 2 minutes.

[anotherpeter]

Or did they? Has the missing element or persons behind it been identified yet? (link?) Who is pushing this assassination circus?

What the post before you is describing must be what Abhisit meant when he vowed to return "normalcy".

If he were voted in by the people through a general election, I guess only then could he have vowed to return "democracy".

What a mess...

Tracy ... how did Somchai become PM?

Peter, it really doesn't matter... it was considered "normalcy" at the time that it happened!

You're barking up the wrong tree... I think every PM should be elected by the people at the ballot box. Otherwise I feel the system has failed them (the people and the PM) and all of these "fixes" are only temporary... forcing democracy to take a back seat.

"Normalcy" in Thailand seems to mean that there are no rules, lawlessness abides, and anything can happen... unless it bothers someone higher up the food chain.

What is considered "normalcy" in Thailand? That would make a good thread... and would probably get closed in about 2 minutes.

It does matter.

You can't say that it is not acceptable that Abhisit was not "elected by the people" when no PM in this country, or many others, are not directly voted for by the people.

Abhisit was directly elected by the peoples representatives. The same way Thaksin, Samak and Somchai were.

Abhisit was elected with the help of the smaller coalition parties. They same way Thaksin (once), Samak and Somchai were.

That is normal and considered democratic. The people need to learn what is normal and democratic.

[anotheruser]

This so-called attempt to capture a couple of red-shirts sounds more like a poorly thought out boy scout jamboree activity.

About time the PM sacked all the idiots at the top of the military and the police and appointed capable people to run these government facilties.

In case you haven't noticed the PM has no authority to do anything otherwise it would have been checkmate a long time ago.

[coalminer]

It seems pretty clear what happened.

1) The redsihrts were tipped off.

The only way this operation could have worked would have been to get in and out in under 10 minutes. They failed to do this.

No, no, no, no....

That's not the way it happened at all.

The BIB entered the hotel lobby disguised as civilians.

But someone at the lobby recognised a policeman and asked him and his fellow BIB to remove their boots at the door as a good Thai would do.

By the time they removed their boots, everybody had already escaped.

So they started to put their boots back on, but in the tumult of finding each his own boots they were catched by the RED's and lead to their site.

The Police is now holding an urgent meeting to propose the use of slippers and flip-flops for their BIB.

[xenomorph]

I have a theory...

Right now every higher positioned official is scared of what the outcome of this will be. The police are afraid to do their job too well, just like the military. What happens IF... the ousted Thaksin manage to get back in power? A lot high ranking official will lose their jobs, imprisoned or maybe even murdered. So, it better to show up, but not confront too much.

-Hey, we're here trying doing our job, you see. -But we failed to do it 100%.

I think that right now everyone is nervous. Just put the head in the sand and wait for everything to settle somehow. Then there will be business usual. A kind of coward strategy that probably work in a country where everyone is corrupted and no one wants to lose their position in any event. Try to act as if you were doing your job, while you will get away with your sanctions of not doing it doing it for real.

That's just my theory.

Edited April 17, 2010 by xenomorph

[tracymeaw]

Or did they? Has the missing element or persons behind it been identified yet? (link?) Who is pushing this assassination circus?

What the post before you is describing must be what Abhisit meant when he vowed to return "normalcy".

If he were voted in by the people through a general election, I guess only then could he have vowed to return "democracy".

What a mess...

Tracy ... how did Somchai become PM?

Peter, it really doesn't matter... it was considered "normalcy" at the time that it happened!

You're barking up the wrong tree... I think every PM should be elected by the people at the ballot box. Otherwise I feel the system has failed them (the people and the PM) and all of these "fixes" are only temporary... forcing democracy to take a back seat.

"Normalcy" in Thailand seems to mean that there are no rules, lawlessness abides, and anything can happen... unless it bothers someone higher up the food chain.

What is considered "normalcy" in Thailand? That would make a good thread... and would probably get closed in about 2 minutes.

It does matter.

You can't say that it is not acceptable that Abhisit was not "elected by the people" when no PM in this country, or many others, are not directly voted for by the people.

Abhisit was directly elected by the peoples representatives. The same way Thaksin, Samak and Somchai were.

Abhisit was elected with the help of the smaller coalition parties. They same way Thaksin (once), Samak and Somchai were.

That is normal and considered democratic. The people need to learn what is normal and democratic.

I can say it.. and I did just that.

I think Thailand desperately needs political reform and could probably do better with an American style electoral system…primary elections (eliminates ship jumping) followed by a general election by the people (one man one vote). I feel the parliamentary style system they are using now completely lacks discipline...with corruption being a “normalcy” in Thailand, the current system has proven to run counter to the values of democracy. //My opinion.

They need to stop fighting and find solutions of lasting value.

Some will worry about vote buying…they say vote sellers would take pictures of their ballot card for proof. Solution… walk the voters through an airport scanner/metal detector to detect cell phones/cameras in line to the ballot box. Use regional voting centers, free transportation, etc. Expensive? Sure... and so are blackhawks, bomb detectors, and protests!