Top Army, Navy Units Readied For Red-Shirts Dispersal

[pontius]

I have noticed that it is the yellows on here that resort to personal abuse to other posters. How about putting your points across in a calm balanced non abusive manner.

It seems to me that it's mostly the "falang redshirts" who take it a tad too personally, but I won't do an excel spreadsheet to find out what the exact ratio is.

I for one would appreciate if the TVFRS brigade would:

1. quit bringing up the very tiresome "But the Yellows ..." - two wrongs never made one right, and we know that since Kindergarden. Besides, it's not even an argument.
   
2. quit calling everybody who opposes this mob behavior "yellows", I for one am just as anti-red as I am anti-yellow. (I can't stand crowds, let alone mobs, but that's besides the point).
   

Anyway, If you want to be a considered a democrat, you should at least try and disguise yourself as one. That counts for all colours.

[TAWP]

So the next time 100,000 people come out calling for an election, the next government will call an election too, won't they. And then after that ............

That would seem to be the precedent set by the PAD, so yes.

Uh, what? There was no election after PADs protests. PPP refused to dissolve the parliament, call new elections or step down.

[bendejo]

Crossy: Forgive me if I'm mistaken. But I thought the whole point of Special Operations deployments was that you don't tell the other side you're coming

They announce it so if it goes wrong, they won't lose face by claims that someone in their SO unit leaked the information for money. And it probably will go wrong...

Not necessarily about money. Have you seen the movie The Departed?

You might be interested to know the story originated in this part of the world (Hong Kong).

I used to say that anything involving more than three people probably has a rat. Since moving to SEA I go by the old saying: three can keep a secret if two are dead.

With the level of duplicity/tri-plicity/quad- etc out here all sides in these coloured shirt confrontations have to fake it, then attempt a surprise strategy.

Edited April 19, 2010 by bendejo

[ChiangMaiFun]

IS A MASSACRE BEING PLANNED? .. "Elite forces from all three branches of the armed forces and police are being mobilised to carry out "operations" to remove red-shirt demonstrators..."

The Red Shirt demonstrators are seeking the resignation of the Government and free elections.

The solution is simple, the Government should resign and call "free" elections and stop blaming its incompetence on a Mr T, a person of no fixed abode.

Abhisit and his Government must resign?

Abhisit has no mandate to govern he was never elected in a democratic vote. He was appointed.

If he had been elected in a public vote he would resign as he no longer enjoys popular support.

This illegitimate Government is not deploying troops to defend democracy, the troops are there purely to defend an undemocratic unelected Government.

Never fear a soldier fear his faceless master ... who is currently hiding in a bunker!

Interesting to note, a totally different scenario of the power of the people; during the time of the public outpouring at Princess Diana's death the House of Windsor's was initially reluctant to give her due respect and a State Funeral.

Q Elizabeth later stated words to effect "we underestimated the peoples' wishes and we then had to remind ourselves we remain only as long as we enjoy popular support."

The 'people's support tore down the Berlin Wall. It was the 'people' who spent weeks on the streets of Edsa and got rid of the dictator Marcos in the Philippines.

People Power will always Prevail!

Too many Governments when in a corner state we must maintain the "The Rule of Law".

What does this mean?

It means the Rule of Law is the "Rule Of The Gun"!

He who controls the most guns usually wins!

Except when it comes to People Power because the shooting innocent of unarmed civilians is a "War Crime" and deemed to be a Crime against humanity.

The perpetrators know at some stage they will be held accountable whether or not they say they were provoked by black shirt terrorists!

Thailand is now tearing itself apart. WHY ?

For years you were the greatest country in Asia with the best and friendliest people and foreigners loved visiting for the best sights and the best time in the world!

We felt safe and secure. No more!

Where are the Leaders and future Leaders?

Someone please stand up, stop the self destruction and war mongering and take control.

Leadership from the highest authority is urgently required !

Why do red supporters keep coming out with "Abhisit wasn't elected"?

Can a red supporter please explain to me how their version of elections show that Abhisit wasn't elected?

Thailand is tearing itself apart because of one corrupt billionaire. And it's only because he didn't get control of the army that we are not living under the rule of his gun.

He wasn't elected - go read - I can't be bothered to repeat the arguements - the red government (which was elected) was banned and MPs jumped ship - do your homework

There's no point in arguing with a zealot - they will always say they are right, even if they are patently wrong.

As you say...no point in repeating the arguments - well, information, really. That has been done dozens of times in the past week, and the red shirt zealots - fanatics? - refuse to accept the fact that Mr Abhisit was elected by the representatives of the people, just the way a constitutional monarchy should be done. And had been done with the prior 'red' administrations. Mr Thaksin never garnered more than 40% of the popular vote, yet he led a coalition as PM. If it was right for Mr Thaksin, why would it be wrong for Mr Abhisit.

Nah, no point in using logic... and I'm going to stop repeating the information too. It seems it's just a waste of bandwidth to rationally explain things to zealots/fanatics.

The term Zealot, in Hebrew kanai (קנאי, frequently used in plural form, קנאים), means one who is zealous on behalf of God. The term derives from Greek ζηλωτής (zelotes), "emulator, zealous admirer or follower".^[1

^{proud to be a zealot on behalf of God - thanks for the title dude - and two wriongs don't make a right - bit like you yellows keep posting 'don't mention the yellow airport takeover'.}

[OzMick]

Yes, I was here. I remember going down to Ratchadaemnon and counting all the bullet holes.

There were thousands of wounded admitted to hospitals and only a handful of bodies. There was almost a complete black out, TV stations went off the air, newspapers were censored, the Bangkok Post printed papers full of blank empty column space rather than re-edit. There were many wild rumors about what was coming next, but I won't post them here. Some are true.

On (I think) the 4th day the TV suddenly came on and there was a view of the two opposing generals Suchinda and Prem crawling on the floor and bowing as they received the scolding of their lives, pretty much don't ever do that again, and that was it.

Rumors of where the bodies disappeared to swirled for days. The authorizes got permission to visit the military base along Phahonyothin Road only to find a large fresh excavation project. When asked what it was the military explained they were constructing a large swimming pool. For two days prior to that, I saw a steady stream of helicopters flying into and out of that base. I lived on soi Silom at the time under the flight path.

But this time the tables are turned. The egotistical self serving PM (then Suchinda) is trying to return from overseas. Mr. T has a long dirty track record of controlling the media. Abhisit is a young, educated western thinking leader who knows the game plan is to cause unrest and make it look like 1992 to unseat the government. Thankfully there has been no media crackdown except that media guilty of incitement. Abhisit knows the more visible events are, the better for the government.

It is almost always the dark force that wants to turn out the lights and hide their activities. Although it has received little media attention, the attempt to blow up the main power line pylons feeding Bangkok last Saturday is one of the critical data points in understanding what is going on. Explosions were heard in the area late Saturday but the damage was not discovered until Monday. 35 kg of plastic explosives were used. It was not for show.

Whoever prepared to blow those pylons late Saturday is the party that started the shooting Saturday and wants to create chaos, and they don't give a hoot about life.

Interesting recollection on life here during that period of time. Thanks for posting it!

Even though the media censorship might be less of a problem now compared to then, surely you are INCORRECT in your assertion that "there has been no media crackdown except that media guilty of incitement". 1000s of websites have been shut down! THere is NOTHING available on Thai television other than pro-govt point-of-view channels. It's the continuing censorship that really drives home the mistrust that in turn ratchets up the Hatred even more than if they allowed the channels and websites to continue.

If all the TV channels are taking an anti-red point of view, has it occurred to you to take off your rose-coloured glasses?

[chadintheusa]

In response to Is a massacre being planned?

The answer is yes, the reds have been planning it for over a month. Hoping that women, children, and monks will get killed in order to force the PM to quit. They've done their best to provoke violence while pretending to be peaceful protesters. The only question is will the army play along and give them what they want.

[JohnLeech]

You've got it turned around 180 degrees. The gov't is not illegal.

True

The 'mad Rambo colonel' you mentioned was an army officer doing his assigned job

True

...- who was specifically targeted by rogue elements of the Red Shirts. A laser was shone on him, then a smoke bomb was tossed at him (to further target him), then immediately a grenade was tossed

Unproven, untrue and unlikely. No-one with any sort of military training would first light-up a target with a laser, then obscure him with a smoke grenade! The grenade was fired from an M79, which is inherently inaccurate and whch would not be used as a weapon of choice to take out an individual target.

...that's what military are trained for, to kill and destroy

Untrue. Most military forces are trained in a number of roles including peace keeping, crowd control and conter-insurgency. "kill and destroy" is the simplest of these.

[LuckyLew]

But again, I guess that's because I am a broke Amartaya. Others are billionaire Prai living it up big time in that bastion of democracy, Fiji.

Transalation

Fuji says Thaksin can come here if he brings a huge wad of cash

[LuckyLew]

I have noticed that it is the yellows on here that resort to personal abuse to other posters. How about putting your points across in a calm balanced non abusive manner.

I think it goes both ways tony, but not very constructive and childish none the less.

Let me guess Peter .. if you do not support red you must be yellow

Wrong on that point

How can "other" reason with red logic

Red logic is - do what we want or else

Reds no longer want to be reasonable, why would

other keep trying to be logical with them.

Reds are out of control

[JohnLeech]

Please google: 2007 Constitution Referendum Thailand! 60% of the people showed up and the majority voted YES!

I think you forgot to look at the two options, which were very clearly stated by the ruling military junta:

1. Vote "YES" and have elections.

2. Vote "No" and the military remain in power indefinitely.

I am not saying that one constitution is/was any better than any other, just that these things are often not as simple as they seem.

[tonywebster]

Please google: 2007 Constitution Referendum Thailand! 60% of the people showed up and the majority voted YES!

I think you forgot to look at the two options, which were very clearly stated by the ruling military junta:

1. Vote "YES" and have elections.

2. Vote "No" and the military remain in power indefinitely.

I am not saying that one constitution is/was any better than any other, just that these things are often not as simple as they seem.

I already posted this a few pages back, and surprise surprise it was overlooked and not answered, I think even the yellows on here know this is fact but I am disappointed that none of them tried to twist it like they normally do.

[anotherpeter]

Please google: 2007 Constitution Referendum Thailand! 60% of the people showed up and the majority voted YES!

I think you forgot to look at the two options, which were very clearly stated by the ruling military junta:

1. Vote "YES" and have elections.

2. Vote "No" and the military remain in power indefinitely.

I am not saying that one constitution is/was any better than any other, just that these things are often not as simple as they seem.

There is no doubt that the constitution needs fixing.

It should be changed using a broad spectrum of Thais ... not just politicians, and particularly, not just the politicians that currently (at any time, not specifically now) have the power.

Then it should be voted for by the people in a referendum.

It should be kept separate from any political elections.

[hammered]

Please google: 2007 Constitution Referendum Thailand! 60% of the people showed up and the majority voted YES!

I think you forgot to look at the two options, which were very clearly stated by the ruling military junta:

1. Vote "YES" and have elections.

2. Vote "No" and the military remain in power indefinitely.

I am not saying that one constitution is/was any better than any other, just that these things are often not as simple as they seem.

Actually the option was vote this one up or down and if it goes down then we will choose one of the previous constitutions

The other thing that was interesting in the vote was the dealsd done by Saprang to get it voted up in the north. Interestingly the outcome of the latter election may have been very different were he chosen as army chief but when he wasnt hius northern alliance disntegrtaed and gave PPP the advantage.

Still I digress. Interesting talkling about these things but we face other dilemmas today.

Just to add Im not supporting any constitution or saying Saprang would have been a good army boss (he probably wouldnt have) but his poltical play in the north was quite brilliant.

[JohnLeech]

If all the TV channels are taking an anti-red point of view, has it occurred to you to take off your rose-coloured glasses?

Has it occured to you to wonder who owns and controls all the official Thai TV channels?

[KireB]

Yup... Some people seem to have very short memories.

And, apparently some forgot how this was forced down, when the junta leader actually said 'you can either vote for this consitution, or you will get one I hold behind my back'.

Super Thai Democracy in Action !

What an utter nons....... Winnie!

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2007/09/...the-referendum/

[OzMick]

A group of well armed men, a few hundred up to a thousand surrounded by 100,000 people, can wreck an invading group hel_l bent on m,oving the reds.

You saw 250 Thai military shot with mainly rubber bullets last time.

If a large group were to attempt to push the reds out, the red snipers armed with machine guns and automatic rifles, would fill the streets with dead Army.

Some of you, in fact most of you, are unaware of the realities of an urban battle.

The men in black can move about easily all over Bangkok because nobody knows who they are. If you attack the maul area attempting to move them and capture them, they will drop huge numbers of the Thai army down dead. Then, if they do decide to leave, they simply will fade back into the city and start again in another location.

By huge, I mean think about it.

A few hundred special force snipers on the red side can certainly kill a few thousand Thai army should the Thai army group go close. Most of the men in black were not even used the last time and they shot 250 in a short time. The bigger the group to shoot at, and the more they will shoot.

Come in with tanks and they will shoot the tanks with bazookas and rockets.

They have them.

Friends in the Thai military, watermelons, are giving the fire power.

You make your bet and I will make mine.

I bet the Thai military does not attack the shopping mauls.

You see, they do not want to die for a cause they do not believe in.

A major meltdown in the Thai system is taking place.

Thai propaganda posters ( Paid by gov) here who are thai--good luck if your side loses.

You will need it.

thai military shot with rubber bullets? Are you deranged? Can you show me a picture from any source of reds using rubber bullet launchers?

where would they get them from?

The ARMY were using crowd control measures until they were ambushed, because some idiot believed the "peaceful protester" crap. If you think that that mistake will be repeated, you are WRONG! A quote for you "a rabble is no more an army than a pile of building materials is a house. " Socrates, some 3000 years ago, still true.

don't bet your bum, you'll end up a sore loser.

[bendejo]

I was in Fiji in mid-2007, the Bainimarama coup was the December before.

The first night I watched the news there was a fellow criticizing the interim government (as they call it). The next night the same guy was on the news with his faced bashed up. The Commodore's gov't is run from a military barracks. Some people have disappeared. I stopped following the antics of Fiji, but I know Frank has not stepped down yet, and probably never will while he's still breathing. There was talk that Fiji may be removed from the Commonwealth, or has that happened already?

My first time in Taksin's Thailand was in May 2003. I read in the newspaper about his war on drugs and it's success was measured by body count.

These two were made for each other. Pity the rest of the world.

I think Frank is trying to sucker our pal Mr T; who will weep?

[TheOldWolf]

Yup... Some people seem to have very short memories.

And, apparently some forgot how this was forced down, when the junta leader actually said 'you can either vote for this consitution, or you will get one I hold behind my back'.

Super Thai Democracy in Action !

What an utter nons....... Winnie!

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2007/09/...the-referendum/

Every day you learn something new, even being old and grey Thank you for the article

[animatic]

I have noticed that it is the yellows on here that resort to personal abuse to other posters. How about putting your points across in a calm balanced non abusive manner.

"Talking ouit your ass."

means colloquially,' comments not worth the toilet paper to dispose of it.'

I can hardly imagine a day on TVF with out a jarring and direct insult from a putative red supporter.

Water of a ducks back...

will you now accuse me of mallard abuse?

[Motoon]

Guys, I guess you can stop bitching at each other, whether red, yellow, flowered or pink. One of my firends, member of an elite force, left Saturday morning with a Thai proverb about Mr. T chose to ride the tiger and having to stay on it to the end... He also remarked that there are elements within the Reds that are messing with the one thing that is holy to all "real" Thais. This has now moved beyond Abhisit, Jatuporn and all others involved. Since Saturday night and following the suspected appearance of certain documents there were mentionings of names who have not been heard for a while but yield substantial power. Ask a (well infomed and connected) Thai friend and he'll explain. I'm afraid given the constellation there will be blood...

[xenomorph]

.

.

Why were the Reds not protesting when Samak and Somchai were put in the power seat (?) - by similar constitutional means as Abhisit.[/size]

Probably because bringing that up would pull the legs on one of the biggest argument why they want Abhisit to resign. The Red Shirt movement is just plain propaganda built on false statements and pure lies. It doesn't surprise me if poor uneducated rice farmers fall for this If you repeat a lie enough times, it will become the truth. But what surprises me is how many westerners, who lives in this country, that actually fall for this brainwashing and support it. Is it a psychological thing? Are there still people here that still doesn't believe that Thaksin is behind all this? And why would anyone support that guy in the first place?

-I've been here so long now that I've become a Thai!

-I know what the poor farmers want, because I'm one of them!

Etc, etc...

If anyone want to fully understand the Thai culture and politics, then you have to been raised in this country from childhood by native Thais. On first sight this culture may look very simple. But it is, on the contrary, very complicated. There are many things in it that an foreigner never would understand even if he'd spent the of his life to figure it out.

I've seen similar behavior in other places when I traveled the world a couple of decades ago. A foreigner that settled down among native population in a corner of the world for some time. After a couple of years he were totally convinced the he were one of the natives as well, refusing to even speak with other foreigners. I didn't know his story before he went there. But something about him was not 100% for sure.

Edited April 19, 2010 by xenomorph

[steveromagnino]

Please google: 2007 Constitution Referendum Thailand! 60% of the people showed up and the majority voted YES!

I think you forgot to look at the two options, which were very clearly stated by the ruling military junta:

1. Vote "YES" and have elections.

2. Vote "No" and the military remain in power indefinitely.

I am not saying that one constitution is/was any better than any other, just that these things are often not as simple as they seem.

There is no doubt that the constitution needs fixing.

It should be changed using a broad spectrum of Thais ... not just politicians, and particularly, not just the politicians that currently (at any time, not specifically now) have the power.

Then it should be voted for by the people in a referendum.

It should be kept separate from any political elections.

Exactly, but try convincing a red shirt leader of this and you will be silenced with a barrage of ill thought out reasoning that basically circles around until you reach the inevitable conclusion that only Jatuporn, Weng and their mates have the ability to represent the majority of Thais and only they have some unique skill not possessed by people who have previously written constitutions to rewrite the current constitution and they will endeavour to reflect the views of who they perceive are the majority of Thais in writing a constitution that will pardon and grant amnesty to a fugitive and his family who clearly has broken the law and lied to the courts for the charges faced so far and all the charges that cannot proceed because this coward isn't brave enough to return to Thailand and face his accusers in a court of law.

They may also grant themselves more opportunities to engage in electoral fraud or possibly to forgive themselves for fraud they already committed (as they attempted last time around under Samak) but that is a little less clear.

They will consider that they alone have a mandate to change a constitution for ALL Thais based on a vote which people cast relating to party policy rather than anything specifically to do with a constitutional referendum.

They have already refused to continue in non partisan discussions in the house. They refuse to allow any timeline for constitutional reform that is not directly attached to the unrelated issue of selecting a government.

Seriously, how anyone be hoodwinked by this attempt to link democracy and constitutional change - to see the rabbit is hiding under the flap in the hat, it's there the entire time? I can forgive people without the opportunities for a high school education to roll all these issues together.....but et tu bakseeda?

[bendejo]

Yes, I have been getting brief glimpses of unmentionable things which seem to be at the very core of this.

On the night of the 10th I've been told that when the reds arrived in the KSR area many places were immediately redecorated to appease them.

What do us dumb farang know?

A few weeks back The Economist magazine had a very interesting article on Thailand, worth looking up.

Edited April 19, 2010 by bendejo

[jcbangkok]

Some pictures from Silom a few hours ago ...

[JohnLeech]

Actually the option was vote this one up or down and if it goes down then we will choose one of the previous constitutions

Again, it wasn't quite that simple.

While they didn't actually say that voting "No" would result in indefinite military rule, when Defense Minister Boonrawd Somtas told [/size]reporters that an election "can take place only if the new constitution passes the referendum," I think the implication was pretty clear!

And passing a law that made it illegal to publicly criticize the draft, even specifically banning taxi drivers from putting "vote no" bumper stickers on their cabs, with a maximum sentence of 10 years and an automatic 5 year ban from political office, can hardly be called "free and fair"!

Edited April 19, 2010 by JohnLeech

[animatic]

Crossy: Forgive me if I'm mistaken. But I thought the whole point of Special Operations deployments was that you don't tell the other side you're coming

They announce it so if it goes wrong, they won't lose face by claims that someone in their SO unit leaked the information for money. And it probably will go wrong...

Not necessarily about money. Have you seen the movie The Departed?

You might be interested to know the story originated in this part of the world (Hong Kong).

I used to say that anything involving more than three people probably has a rat. Since moving to SEA I go by the old saying: three can keep a secret if two are dead.

With the level of duplicity/tri-plicity/quad- etc out here all sides in these coloured shirt confrontations have to fake it, then attempt a surprise strategy.

Uh, no.

The Departed was a barely fictionalized story of Whitey Bulger a notorious Boston Irish Mobster.

Who I had the misfortune to actually meet once. He ran most rackets in Beantown for 25 years,

while shopping out various associates to keep the cops busy, happy or looking elsewhere.

He is presently 'whereabouts unknown', wonders of plastic surgery no doubts,

but most definitely on the most wanted list.

[tonywebster]

I have noticed that it is the yellows on here that resort to personal abuse to other posters. How about putting your points across in a calm balanced non abusive manner.

"Talking ouit your ass."

means colloquially,' comments not worth the toilet paper to dispose of it.'

I can hardly imagine a day on TVF with out a jarring and direct insult from a putative red supporter.

Water of a ducks back...

will you now accuse me of mallard abuse?

amazing, without naming names the guilty parties always feel the need to defend themselves. Sometimes you appear educated and it puzzles me that you do not seem able to make your point eloquently and without abuse or trying to belittle others, does it make you fell good being an internet warrior? But anyway, thanks for admitting your yellowness.

The great Bob Paisley once said 'if you shout people don't listen, if you speak softly they listen'

Edited April 19, 2010 by tonywebster

[Insight]

Top photos, jcbangkok!

Waiting to see if Chavilit & co is granted an audience. Perhaps some sage advice might bring Thailand back from the pale, and I'm not obviously not talking about "advice" from Chavilit.

[bkkjames]

I have noticed that it is the yellows on here that resort to personal abuse to other posters. How about putting your points across in a calm balanced non abusive manner.

"Talking ouit your ass."

means colloquially,' comments not worth the toilet paper to dispose of it.'

I can hardly imagine a day on TVF with out a jarring and direct insult from a putative red supporter.

Water of a ducks back...

will you now accuse me of mallard abuse?

amazing, without naming names the guilty parties always feel the need to defend themselves. Sometimes you appear educated and it puzzles me that you do not seem able to make your point eloquently and without abuse or trying to belittle others, does it make you fell good being an internet warrior? But anyway, thanks for admitting your yellowness.

The great Bob Paisley once said 'if you shout people don't listen, if you speak softly they listen'

The Great Sir Alex Ferguson says, "I shout cause I want to win, if you don't like me shouting, I have a hair dryer for you to listen too."

[JohnLeech]

Now I know this is thailand and some posters on T/V seem quite thick, but an intelligent person might be lead to believe that if the MP's switched sides to allow another party to run the government, it might have been in the best interest of their constituents seeing as that's who elected them and that's whose interests they are supposed to watch out for.

Possibly ... on the other hand "an intelligent person" might also consider that some of the MPs couldn't care less about what was "in the best interest of their constituents" and that all they cared about was what was in their own best interests.

Just an idea, as some MPs in the past seem to have had this as a priority ....

Edited April 19, 2010 by JohnLeech