Red-Shirts To Intensify Pressure

[whatsupdoc]

There might be an easy way out of this mess for the Reds:

Step 1. Jatuporn and his fellow MP's from PT finally start to do their real job (that will be the hardest part..) and call for a censure debate.

Step 2. They win the censure debate (should be easy since they claim to have the backing of a vast majority of Thais or any number that Dr. Weng says. Furthermore, the current government is supposedly the most evil ever). Before the censure debate they can choose the new PM or more likely, let Thaksin choose him.

Step 3. Their first act as a new government will be to dissolve the house and have new elections for Parliament (that's the only thing they want isn't it???)

If it is so easy why doesn't this happen???????????

[travelingmike]

You got it. In order to cling on to his unelected position, Abhisit is willing to risk splitting the army, which could easily lead to a civil war.

And we should recall that Abhisit's original justification for his unelected grabbing of power was that two people had been killed in the street fighting. He promised reconciliation.

Now that over 20 people have died in exactly the same circumstances, we hear nothing from Abhisit as he cowers in his hole.

He is nothing more than a self-serving hypocrite.

<snip>

Why are all the RED-farangs so bitter? <snip>

I think that the next person who says that the current PM was not elected should be suspended for stupidity and ignorance. Why does this keep coming up? It reminds of the bitter TEA party(majority all white) people here in the united states who protest Obama and democrats for taxes, when the fact is all people who make less then 250,000$ us dollars paid less taxes this year(which is 96% of us). Every time one of them opens his or her mouth I tell them to check with their tax advisor or compare their returns from the year before-none of them ever get back to me. They should be thanking Mr. Obama. Most people take the time to bitch, but they are only passing on what a limbaugh, hannity, or some other fox news personality has told them. The republicans complained about health care reform, but had no better idea(they had 8 years of reagan,4 years of bush senior,8 years of bush junior, and controlled the congress when clinton(he tried to introduce a bill) was president)-not one time did they introduce legislation trying to fix our broken health care system. Most of the people dont even realize it is democratic policies they are benifitting from, if this was realized the republican party would loose most of its white southern votes. Remember during the bush junior fiasco, he wanted to turn social security over to the stock brokers and privatize it-we have seen how the market did. Alot more people would be suffering, but many of them blaming Obama and the government for their problems. Obama is trying to regulate wall street and banks-who is voting and working against this-the Majority of the republican party. I got a bit side tracked but my point is mis-information without fact checking can cause people to do stupid things. Nobody has brought up the thai governments increased funding under the current PM to assist the red shirt stronghold areas . Real help, not just free cell phones. I think that if many of the reds actually checked into it, they are benifitting from the current government .

[animatic]

There might be an easy way out of this mess for the Reds:

Step 1. Jatuporn and his fellow MP's from PT finally start to do their real job (that will be the hardest part..) and call for a censure debate.

Step 2. They win the censure debate (should be easy since they claim to have the backing of a vast majority of Thais or any number that Dr. Weng says. Furthermore, the current government is supposedly the most evil ever). Before the censure debate they can choose the new PM or more likely, let Thaksin choose him.

Step 3. Their first act as a new government will be to dissolve the house and have new elections for Parliament (that's the only thing they want isn't it???)

If it is so easy why doesn't this happen???????????

Having alleged public backing is not what it takes to win a censure debate.

It takes verifiable facts that the government has done or not done something either;

so badly or illegally that it loses support of it's COALITION Parliamantary PARTNER votes.

A parliamentary vote of non-support.

[grandpops]

There might be an easy way out of this mess for the Reds:

Step 1. Jatuporn and his fellow MP's from PT finally start to do their real job (that will be the hardest part..) and call for a censure debate.

Step 2. They win the censure debate (should be easy since they claim to have the backing of a vast majority of Thais or any number that Dr. Weng says. Furthermore, the current government is supposedly the most evil ever). Before the censure debate they can choose the new PM or more likely, let Thaksin choose him.

Step 3. Their first act as a new government will be to dissolve the house and have new elections for Parliament (that's the only thing they want isn't it???)

If it is so easy why doesn't this happen???????????

Having alleged public backing is not what it takes to win a censure debate.

It takes verifiable facts that the government has done or not done something either;

so badly or illegally that it loses support of it's COALITION Parliamantary PARTNER votes.

A parliamentary vote of non-support.

So The Deputy PM sending in the Army with live Ammo resulting in 24 dead is not really in the category of an event that needs more looking at? Remember the Army didn;t want to do it and were ordered and co-erced into it.

If they are not careful they are going to get Newin as PM in the next few years. Don't imagine Abhisit can control him.

Edited April 21, 2010 by grandpops

[ChiangMaiFun]

The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.

This has got to be a joke! yellows have stooped to new depths with this post - just read it again dear readers:

'The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.'

Have you been keeping your appointments with your nice Doctor? funny how none of these 'killings', 'beatings of farmers and gays' have reached the newspapers or TV.

Edit: posters name added

Edited April 21, 2010 by ChiangMaiFun

[whatsupdoc]

The question remains why they do not start the obvious parliamentary action of initiating a censure debate. They should try that first before wrecking the economy.

But as you implicated; they do not have a majority in parliament. In addition they might have difficulty in finding a suitable candidate PM.

[anotherpeter]

So The Deputy PM sending in the Army with live Ammo resulting in 24 dead is not really in the category of an event that needs more looking at? Remember the Army didn;t want to do it and were ordered and co-erced into it.

If they are not careful they are going to get Newin as PM in the next few years. Don't imagine Abhisit can control him.

You always seem to ignore the fact that soldiers died too.

Everything I have seen so far has only shown soldiers shooting after they were hit by grenades or gunfire from the reds.

The army were sent in to clear the protests with batons and riot shields, with live ammo for self defence.

Can you imagine how many soldiers would be dead now if they didn't have something to protect themselves?

[blackman]

some red shirts said that they'd know if soldiers were heading their way if the 24-hour convenience stores suddenly started shutting down and mobile phone signals were cut off.

-- The Nation 2010-04-21

lets do that then

shut 'em down & switch 'em off and let the dog see the rabbit.....

there are many stategic clues to be had to the reds current paranoia within the reds rhetoric

lets use it against them

Edited April 21, 2010 by blackman

[ozzieman05]

The truth is

Both the reds and the Thai government are to blame for what is to happen now

The Red shirts have brought together a mob in Bkk and the leaders have teased them into a frenzy like a pack of wild dogs

They have convinced the followers that the Police and army will not fight them and they are invincible

The Government on the other hand has played soft touch, confirming what the Red Shirt leader are saying and given the crazy mob a feeling of undefeatable

But now we are are the start of reality

Its over people

Taskin has been denied his appeal

The money is gone

He is not returning He is not god

but you have made your self pawns in a clash of self made titans called Red shirt leaders

This time the army is controled by someone that can not afford to loose face

The watermelon boys are not in the front line

Your might leaders have not made your bodies bulletproof

Thailand has laws and now they must be upheld

To stand in the front lines for Red shirts is playing Russian Roullete and many of you are looking at suicide

If you think your body can stop a bullet you are a bloody idiot

Please understand your Red shirt leaders have wanted Blood spilt from day one, not their blood but your blood, and have already spilt to much all ready

You have achieved so much already, Hold your heads high for you will be remembered in Thai history

Democracy comes one day at a time

and you have made a start to it

Better to be alive to take the next step

Than dead where you will be nothing more than a number on a box

Your families need you back home

Tell your Red Shirt leaders to except an early election

Or commit suicide for someone who is already finished

If you want to fight okay up to you, but put your leaders in the front lines with you, a Thai Braveheart

See with your own eyes that they believe in the words they are telling you

[grandpops]

So The Deputy PM sending in the Army with live Ammo resulting in 24 dead is not really in the category of an event that needs more looking at? Remember the Army didn;t want to do it and were ordered and co-erced into it.

If they are not careful they are going to get Newin as PM in the next few years. Don't imagine Abhisit can control him.

You always seem to ignore the fact that soldiers died too.

Everything I have seen so far has only shown soldiers shooting after they were hit by grenades or gunfire from the reds.

The army were sent in to clear the protests with batons and riot shields, with live ammo for self defence.

Can you imagine how many soldiers would be dead now if they didn't have something to protect themselves?

I can imagine how many would be dead if they hadn't gone in heavily armed. NONE

Perhaps if Thaugsabun or Abhisit did something really bad like avoid some tax through a loophole there would be cause for a coup.

Thaugsabun is still at it. Ordering up a mob on the street to attack taxis etc. Totally unaware in his blind rage, of the hypocrite the whole world (outside a few PAD on here) see him for.

They have never done anything to resolve this politically which is why the Army are standing around instead of doing their bidding (killing) and shoring them up. A few talks, then arrest warrents and armed attacks ordered, (but only half heartedly carried out) then threat, hotels stormed, assassination attempt on Arisman.

Up to you what you think, but if you think two mobs on the street is better than one, and if you think one should be subject to arrest warrents whilst the other is protected by the army and allowed to stage attacks, thats your opinion. Noticably the Army rescued the red guy last night and let him go!!! Divided loyalties again?

The smug horse analogy that they used regarding the Army last year lacked one well known proverb that has proved true over the centuries. Regardless of who the jockey is, who owns the horse, somebody has to feed it and clean the shit up after it. Not the elites me thinks!! Also, as Thaugsabum proved when he ordered the killing spree, you can lead this horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

Tuagsabun could be the fall guy here, he has the blood on his hands because Abhisit is only the stooge and obviously not riding any horse. If the Army locked him up, this could have been resolved more quickly.

[PETDCAT]

The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.

This has got to be a joke! yellows have stooped to new depths with this post - just read it again dear readers:

'The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.'

Have you been keeping your appointments with your nice Doctor? funny how none of these 'killings', 'beatings of farmers and gays' have reached the newspapers or TV.

Edit: posters name added

Well I guess you dont read Chiang Mai news. They do kill people.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirt-Mu...rs-t354499.html

I noticed in today's national press that the court in Chiangmai has sentenced five men to 20 years in jail for the murder of the father of a key member of the yellow shirt People's Alliance for Democracy.

One of those convicted is the chief security guard of the red shirt Rak Chiang Mai 51 group, Niyom Lueangcharoen, who has jumped bail and was last seen on the stage of the current demonstration in Bangkok. I trust he will be apprehended very soon.

[anotherpeter]

So The Deputy PM sending in the Army with live Ammo resulting in 24 dead is not really in the category of an event that needs more looking at? Remember the Army didn;t want to do it and were ordered and co-erced into it.

If they are not careful they are going to get Newin as PM in the next few years. Don't imagine Abhisit can control him.

You always seem to ignore the fact that soldiers died too.

Everything I have seen so far has only shown soldiers shooting after they were hit by grenades or gunfire from the reds.

The army were sent in to clear the protests with batons and riot shields, with live ammo for self defence.

Can you imagine how many soldiers would be dead now if they didn't have something to protect themselves?

I can imagine how many would be dead if they hadn't gone in heavily armed. NONE

Perhaps if Thaugsabun or Abhisit did something really bad like avoid some tax through a loophole there would be cause for a coup.

Thaugsabun is still at it. Ordering up a mob on the street to attack taxis etc. Totally unaware in his blind rage, of the hypocrite the whole world (outside a few PAD on here) see him for.

They have never done anything to resolve this politically which is why the Army are standing around instead of doing their bidding (killing) and shoring them up. A few talks, then arrest warrents and armed attacks ordered, (but only half heartedly carried out) then threat, hotels stormed, assassination attempt on Arisman.

Up to you what you think, but if you think two mobs on the street is better than one, and if you think one should be subject to arrest warrents whilst the other is protected by the army and allowed to stage attacks, thats your opinion. Noticably the Army rescued the red guy last night and let him go!!! Divided loyalties again?

The smug horse analogy that they used regarding the Army last year lacked one well known proverb that has proved true over the centuries. Regardless of who the jockey is, who owns the horse, somebody has to feed it and clean the shit up after it. Not the elites me thinks!! Also, as Thaugsabum proved when he ordered the killing spree, you can lead this horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

Tuagsabun could be the fall guy here, he has the blood on his hands because Abhisit is only the stooge and obviously not riding any horse. If the Army locked him up, this could have been resolved more quickly.

So you are saying that because the army had weapons for self defense, the red shirts used grenades, petrol bombs and guns?

Do you think that it might be possible that the army WOULDN'T have used live ammunition if they hadn't been blown up by grenades or hit by gunfire fromt he reds?

Given the violent rhetoric that has come from the reds SINCE DAY ONE, don't you think it is fair for the army to be able to protect themselves from violent and deadly protestors?

In the same sentence you are saying the army protects the yellows, and protects the reds. Isn't that what they are supposed to do? Protect people from violent mobs?

The yellows should get back in their box. Them coming out only gives the reds more excuses of "But the yellows ...".

"They have never done anything to resolve this politically". What have the reds done to resolve this? They have one demand and have not negotiated on that demand. And they have political representation in parliament. A lot of use they are!

[ChiangMaiFun]

The truth is

Both the reds and the Thai government are to blame for what is to happen now

The Red shirts have brought together a mob in Bkk and the leaders have teased them into a frenzy like a pack of wild dogs

They have convinced the followers that the Police and army will not fight them and they are invincible

The Government on the other hand has played soft touch, confirming what the Red Shirt leader are saying and given the crazy mob a feeling of undefeatable

But now we are are the start of reality

Its over people

Taskin has been denied his appeal

The money is gone

He is not returning He is not god

but you have made your self pawns in a clash of self made titans called Red shirt leaders

This time the army is controled by someone that can not afford to loose face

The watermelon boys are not in the front line

Your might leaders have not made your bodies bulletproof

Thailand has laws and now they must be upheld

To stand in the front lines for Red shirts is playing Russian Roullete and many of you are looking at suicide

If you think your body can stop a bullet you are a bloody idiot

Please understand your Red shirt leaders have wanted Blood spilt from day one, not their blood but your blood, and have already spilt to much all ready

You have achieved so much already, Hold your heads high for you will be remembered in Thai history

Democracy comes one day at a time

and you have made a start to it

Better to be alive to take the next step

Than dead where you will be nothing more than a number on a box

Your families need you back home

Tell your Red Shirt leaders to except an early election

Or commit suicide for someone who is already finished

If you want to fight okay up to you, but put your leaders in the front lines with you, a Thai Braveheart

See with your own eyes that they believe in the words they are telling you

I don't disagree with this - the government should announce a DATE and soon - reds then should go home and wait

[bkkjames]

The truth is

Both the reds and the Thai government are to blame for what is to happen now

The Red shirts have brought together a mob in Bkk and the leaders have teased them into a frenzy like a pack of wild dogs

They have convinced the followers that the Police and army will not fight them and they are invincible

The Government on the other hand has played soft touch, confirming what the Red Shirt leader are saying and given the crazy mob a feeling of undefeatable

But now we are are the start of reality

Its over people

Taskin has been denied his appeal

The money is gone

He is not returning He is not god

but you have made your self pawns in a clash of self made titans called Red shirt leaders

This time the army is controled by someone that can not afford to loose face

The watermelon boys are not in the front line

Your might leaders have not made your bodies bulletproof

Thailand has laws and now they must be upheld

To stand in the front lines for Red shirts is playing Russian Roullete and many of you are looking at suicide

If you think your body can stop a bullet you are a bloody idiot

Please understand your Red shirt leaders have wanted Blood spilt from day one, not their blood but your blood, and have already spilt to much all ready

You have achieved so much already, Hold your heads high for you will be remembered in Thai history

Democracy comes one day at a time

and you have made a start to it

Better to be alive to take the next step

Than dead where you will be nothing more than a number on a box

Your families need you back home

Tell your Red Shirt leaders to except an early election

Or commit suicide for someone who is already finished

If you want to fight okay up to you, but put your leaders in the front lines with you, a Thai Braveheart

See with your own eyes that they believe in the words they are telling you

I don't disagree with this - the government should announce a DATE and soon - reds then should go home and wait

If he comes out with a date that corresponds with 9 months from today, will that put an end to it? I didn't think so.

[animatic]

There might be an easy way out of this mess for the Reds:

Step 1. Jatuporn and his fellow MP's from PT finally start to do their real job (that will be the hardest part..) and call for a censure debate.

Step 2. They win the censure debate (should be easy since they claim to have the backing of a vast majority of Thais or any number that Dr. Weng says. Furthermore, the current government is supposedly the most evil ever). Before the censure debate they can choose the new PM or more likely, let Thaksin choose him.

Step 3. Their first act as a new government will be to dissolve the house and have new elections for Parliament (that's the only thing they want isn't it???)

If it is so easy why doesn't this happen???????????

Having alleged public backing is not what it takes to win a censure debate.

It takes verifiable facts that the government has done or not done something either;

so badly or illegally that it loses support of it's COALITION Parliamantary PARTNER votes.

A parliamentary vote of non-support.

So The Deputy PM sending in the Army with live Ammo resulting in 24 dead is not really in the category of an event that needs more looking at? Remember the Army didn;t want to do it and were ordered and co-erced into it.

If they are not careful they are going to get Newin as PM in the next few years. Don't imagine Abhisit can control him.

No soldier in most all armies is ever issued a gun without at least a few live rounds.

They may have predominantly plastic or dummy rounds for use, but in worst case, such as what happened,

having a weapon and the inability to actually USE it, is a death sentence for the man carrying it.

No commander expects this of his troupes.

All 23 dead did not come from the riot troupes guns. Most were killed by long distance rounds.

So what ammunition that was issued to the riot troupes is not the really big issue anyway.

This censure argument is wishful thinking as a way to bring down the government.

It is a way for PTP to howl like mad dogs in Parliament for the day.

We also know the Dems coalition still holds. So a PTP censure debate just a waste of air as usual.

Edited April 21, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.

This has got to be a joke! yellows have stooped to new depths with this post - just read it again dear readers:

'The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.'

Have you been keeping your appointments with your nice Doctor? funny how none of these 'killings', 'beatings of farmers and gays' have reached the newspapers or TV.

Edit: posters name added

Hammered tells the truth, it has been seen on video several times.

Stop defending the indefensable, it diminishes your other arguments,

which occasionally have some limited validity.

[animatic]

So The Deputy PM sending in the Army with live Ammo resulting in 24 dead is not really in the category of an event that needs more looking at? Remember the Army didn;t want to do it and were ordered and co-erced into it.

If they are not careful they are going to get Newin as PM in the next few years. Don't imagine Abhisit can control him.

You always seem to ignore the fact that soldiers died too.

Everything I have seen so far has only shown soldiers shooting after they were hit by grenades or gunfire from the reds.

The army were sent in to clear the protests with batons and riot shields, with live ammo for self defence.

Can you imagine how many soldiers would be dead now if they didn't have something to protect themselves?

I can imagine how many would be dead if they hadn't gone in heavily armed. NONE ....

Well except from the army side who were being targeted for death before they fired a shot.

This is a despicable comment... but par for the course.

[rixalex]

I don't disagree with this - the government should announce a DATE and soon - reds then should go home and wait

Problem with that idea is it depends upon the reds being honorable. What if they are not. What if Abhisit sets an election date for six months time and the reds continue their protests? What if they threaten more disruptions and violence should Abhisit not compromise on elections that would then only be six months away? Seems to me quite likely they would do that. Negotiations are a two-way street. If the reds can't even make the tiniest move to compromise on their demands they deserve to be rebuked as they currently are.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.

This has got to be a joke! yellows have stooped to new depths with this post - just read it again dear readers:

'The reds in CM are well known for killing poeple, beating up farmers and gays.'

Have you been keeping your appointments with your nice Doctor? funny how none of these 'killings', 'beatings of farmers and gays' have reached the newspapers or TV.

Edit: posters name added

Hammered tells the truth, it has been seen on video several times.

Stop defending the indefensable, it diminishes your other arguments,

which occasionally have some limited validity.

I can say, honestly (no games, no ploy), I have never heard of it - he makes it sound like it's a daily event

[rixalex]

I can say, honestly (no games, no ploy), I have never heard of it - he makes it sound like it's a daily event

Do you really live in Chiang Mai? I can't help wondering. Yesterday i read one of your posts when you said that you had never heard about what Oak (Thaksin's son) had said in a local nightclub. It was such big news at the time, i find it amazing that you managed to miss it.

[ozzieman05]

The truth is

Both the reds and the Thai government are to blame for what is to happen now

The Red shirts have brought together a mob in Bkk and the leaders have teased them into a frenzy like a pack of wild dogs

They have convinced the followers that the Police and army will not fight them and they are invincible

The Government on the other hand has played soft touch, confirming what the Red Shirt leader are saying and given the crazy mob a feeling of undefeatable

But now we are are the start of reality

Its over people

Taskin has been denied his appeal

The money is gone

He is not returning He is not god

but you have made your self pawns in a clash of self made titans called Red shirt leaders

This time the army is controled by someone that can not afford to loose face

The watermelon boys are not in the front line

Your might leaders have not made your bodies bulletproof

Thailand has laws and now they must be upheld

To stand in the front lines for Red shirts is playing Russian Roullete and many of you are looking at suicide

If you think your body can stop a bullet you are a bloody idiot

Please understand your Red shirt leaders have wanted Blood spilt from day one, not their blood but your blood, and have already spilt to much all ready

You have achieved so much already, Hold your heads high for you will be remembered in Thai history

Democracy comes one day at a time

and you have made a start to it

Better to be alive to take the next step

Than dead where you will be nothing more than a number on a box

Your families need you back home

Tell your Red Shirt leaders to except an early election

Or commit suicide for someone who is already finished

If you want to fight okay up to you, but put your leaders in the front lines with you, a Thai Braveheart

See with your own eyes that they believe in the words they are telling you

I don't disagree with this - the government should announce a DATE and soon - reds then should go home and wait

As I said

SO EASY TO PLAY RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH OTHER PEOPLES LIVES

[ozzieman05]

The truth is

Both the reds and the Thai government are to blame for what is to happen now

The Red shirts have brought together a mob in Bkk and the leaders have teased them into a frenzy like a pack of wild dogs

They have convinced the followers that the Police and army will not fight them and they are invincible

The Government on the other hand has played soft touch, confirming what the Red Shirt leader are saying and given the crazy mob a feeling of undefeatable

But now we are are the start of reality

Its over people

Taskin has been denied his appeal

The money is gone

He is not returning He is not god

but you have made your self pawns in a clash of self made titans called Red shirt leaders

This time the army is controled by someone that can not afford to loose face

The watermelon boys are not in the front line

Your might leaders have not made your bodies bulletproof

Thailand has laws and now they must be upheld

To stand in the front lines for Red shirts is playing Russian Roullete and many of you are looking at suicide

If you think your body can stop a bullet you are a bloody idiot

Please understand your Red shirt leaders have wanted Blood spilt from day one, not their blood but your blood, and have already spilt to much all ready

You have achieved so much already, Hold your heads high for you will be remembered in Thai history

Democracy comes one day at a time

and you have made a start to it

Better to be alive to take the next step

Than dead where you will be nothing more than a number on a box

Your families need you back home

Tell your Red Shirt leaders to except an early election

Or commit suicide for someone who is already finished

If you want to fight okay up to you, but put your leaders in the front lines with you, a Thai Braveheart

See with your own eyes that they believe in the words they are telling you

I don't disagree with this - the government should announce a DATE and soon - reds then should go home and wait

If he comes out with a date that corresponds with 9 months from today, will that put an end to it? I didn't think so.

DITTO

SO EASY TO PLAY RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH OTHER PEOPLES LIVES

I bet there is no one from your family in the suicide lineup

[chantorn]

... The watermelon boys are not in the front line ...

Most of the watermelon boys are having fun in Silom Soi 2 & Soi 4. The lesser few are in Patpong.

[grandpops]

There might be an easy way out of this mess for the Reds:

Step 1. Jatuporn and his fellow MP's from PT finally start to do their real job (that will be the hardest part..) and call for a censure debate.

Step 2. They win the censure debate (should be easy since they claim to have the backing of a vast majority of Thais or any number that Dr. Weng says. Furthermore, the current government is supposedly the most evil ever). Before the censure debate they can choose the new PM or more likely, let Thaksin choose him.

Step 3. Their first act as a new government will be to dissolve the house and have new elections for Parliament (that's the only thing they want isn't it???)

If it is so easy why doesn't this happen???????????

Having alleged public backing is not what it takes to win a censure debate.

It takes verifiable facts that the government has done or not done something either;

so badly or illegally that it loses support of it's COALITION Parliamantary PARTNER votes.

A parliamentary vote of non-support.

So The Deputy PM sending in the Army with live Ammo resulting in 24 dead is not really in the category of an event that needs more looking at? Remember the Army didn;t want to do it and were ordered and co-erced into it.

If they are not careful they are going to get Newin as PM in the next few years. Don't imagine Abhisit can control him.

No soldier in most all armies is ever issued a gun without at least a few live rounds.

They may have predominantly plastic or dummy rounds for use, but in worst case, such as what happened,

having a weapon and the inability to actually USE it, is a death sentence for the man carrying it.

No commander expects this of his troupes.

All 23 dead did not come from the riot troupes guns. Most were killed by long distance rounds.

So what ammunition that was issued to the riot troupes is not the really big issue anyway.

This censure argument is wishful thinking as a way to bring down the government.

It is a way for PTP to howl like mad dogs in Parliament for the day.

We also know the Dems coalition still holds. So a PTP censure debate just a waste of air as usual.

It is not a waste of air. It gives the people of Thailand and the World the opportunity to see who is lining up with who and, more importantly, how they justify propping Thaugsabum and his sidekick up on live TV.

Who knows, once they are in parliament and out of the control of their masters, some of them may even do the right thing and force an election.

The MPs got a lot of coverage on Thai TV last night, and I think many are hoping this will be resolved politically.

Anyway, as regards unemployment, if the reds as you maintain are paying 500 baht per day to their supporters, that must be good for the economy. If their employers in the Bangkok treat them so shoddily by laying them off, they could easily find employment the adjoining sois.

Unlike the rural poor who have plenty of work but don't get paid for it. But, for the Bangkok elites, they don't normally have to consider this in their merry go round of shopping, malls, beautician, brand name goods, skytrain, maids etc wont think about this. Must be dreadful to have all these hicks in town.

[sbk]

Chiang Mai Fun, please read the news before accusing someone of lying. Two men, currently leaders at the Bangkok Red shirt demonstration have been charged and found guilty of murder along with three others. The murder of an old man whose son was a well known Yellow Shirt leader.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-J...-M-t354516.html

And a note, lets drop the name calling and inflammatory posting.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I can say, honestly (no games, no ploy), I have never heard of it - he makes it sound like it's a daily event

Do you really live in Chiang Mai? I can't help wondering. Yesterday i read one of your posts when you said that you had never heard about what Oak (Thaksin's son) had said in a local nightclub. It was such big news at the time, i find it amazing that you managed to miss it.

Last time I looked out of my window it was Chiang Mai! I don't even know who Oak is... sorry... I am not interested in Thaksin and hope he never returns here and I have no idea about his family - the newspapers here are pretty low grade - well there is only one (Chiang Mai News) but I don't read it as it's really poor reporting so maybe I missed it. I wish we had a decent paper here - we have a great magazine (CityLife). But I know many people here and if there were regular 'killings' and 'beatings' I would have heard - sorry but I don't buy it - maybe an isolated incident but to say 'reds kill and beat up farmers (I mean really? FARMERS?) and gays' is ridiculous.

[Publicus]

Thaksin and his Redshirts are parliamentarians only if there isn't ever any effective opposition in a parliament and only if they have absolute control of a parliament.

The Yellows acted by extra-parliamentary means to remove a particular government. The Reds always have acted in extra-parliamentary ways to seize control of the state and violently to transform it into a subsidiary of Thaksin Family Enterprises Inc.

To paraphrase, Thaksin and his Redshirt lieutenants can fool some of the people all of the time, but they can't fool all of the people even some of the time.

[anotherpeter]

Do a search on "Chiang Mai gay parade".

[generalgrant]

Soldiers' loyalty a crucial issue in Thailand standoff

Presence of 'watermelon soldiers' – wearing green on the outside, but red in their hearts – could affect outcome of anti-government clash

Since a failed military crackdown earlier this month that left 24 people dead, including five soldiers, rumours have swirled about divisions within the military ranks. Some believe the Red Shirts got help from within the military before and during the April 10 clash, and there have been unsubstantiated reports of soldiers firing on soldiers amid the chaos of that night.

There are also suspicions that someone in the police tipped Red Shirt leaders off ahead of a bungled arrest attempt at a Bangkok hotel last week that saw one of the leaders escape in Hollywood style by using an electrical cord to rappel down from his third-floor window.

The presence of "watermelon soldiers" – wearing green on the outside, but red in their hearts – in the ranks of the Thai military is unsurprising, given that many of the rank-and-file are drawn from poorer, rural areas of the country, the same villages that are the heartland of the Red Shirt movement. An estimated 40 per cent of the army's 190,000 troops are conscripts.

While affluent and well-educated Bangkok youths often find a way to avoid being drafted, young men from the countryside usually have little choice but to do their two years of mandatory service. They serve under an officer corps that is very much of the upper crust in Thailand, creating an often class-based chain-of-command in the army that is similar to the unofficial caste system in wider Thai society that Red leaders say they are trying to overturn.

There are also believed to be divisions within the officer ranks, with some believed to maintain ties to the exiled former prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, who graduated from an elite military school and allegedly cemented loyalties by promoting his old classmates before he was deposed in a 2006 military coup.

"When we talk about the military and the police, unquestionably there is a question of disunity among them," said Surat Horachaikul, a professor of political science at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok. "There is a faction protecting and working with the Reds. There is a problem when your own army is working against you."

One army figure who has openly joined the Red Shirts is Major General Khattiya Sawasdipol, who was suspended from the military after he declared his support for the Red Shirts and Mr. Thaksin. Gen. Khattiya now struts among the tents and bedrolls of the Red Shirt camp in military fatigues with a canteen and knife dangling from his belt. He spends much of his time drawing up plans to defend the protest camp, which was established among the luxury malls and high-end hotels of Bangkok's main shopping district in large part to make it difficult for the army to move in.

"Everyone in the lower ranks of the army is 100-per-cent Red. The only ones who are personally with the government are the commanders," he said. But Gen. Khattiya nonetheless believes the rank-and-file will do their duty and crack down on the protesters if such an order does come.

Gen. Khattiya said that the ones who shot back at the army during the fighting on April 10 were members of a black-shirted third force. In an interview, he grinningly claimed no knowledge of who these fighters were, before describing in depth the kinds of weapons they possess and the tactics they used to repel the army assault. "If I said it was me, I would go to jail," he said before adding boastfully: "Their tactics were better than the government's."

Panitan Wattanayagorn, acting spokesman for Mr. Abhisit's government, dismissed concerns about the loyalty of serving soldiers, but said the government was concerned about "terrorist" elements within the otherwise Red Shirt demonstrators who were willing to use violence to advance their cause.

"The Department of Special Investigation has evidence about this radical military wing that has been trained and organized by paramilitary troops, created by ex-officers [now] serving political organizations," Mr. Panitan said in an interview at the government's crisis headquarters inside the north Bangkok barracks of the 11th Infantry Division. "What we've seen is a radical element [that fought] using grenade launchers, machine guns and bombs... the attack was very sophisticated, to a level that was quite alarming."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1540030/

[ChiangMaiFun]

Do a search on "Chiang Mai gay parade".

There was a demo by crazy red protestors (who I don't agree with) - no beatings - no killings - I live here and trust me it was blown out of all proportion. To say in a blanket way 'reds in CM kill and beat farmers and gays' is just NOT TRUE - to say there are some nutcases who hold views against gays is CORRECT - they are everywhere not just here - Please try and be FAIR.