Immigration Are…(a) Joking. (b) Stupid. Or, (c) Just Nasty.

[fishhooks]

****Since the move to Chiang Watanna they have required same day evidence of bank deposit. For most people this is easy as most banks have a branch office within 100 meters of the Immigration office (down one floor) and are aware of the requirements**** From lopburi3

This is okay if your actual "Bank Branch" is located there.

In my own case and I'm sure the majority, you need the "Letter" from your actual branch where the account is held and no other branch will perform the task for you!

[lopburi3]

ATM machines do not discriminate by branch (they want an entry for bank book on that day is my understanding) so take out a few baht and stamp passbook. And from reports here they can also issue letters when required for accounts at other branches to satisfy Immigration although I have not used that service. I can say both BBL and SCB are among the most friendly branch offices I have visited.

[equinox]

There is a sign (in English) in the IO Samutprakarn that I am forced to use (rather than friendly Bkk office - 10yrs no problems) saying if any problems, one can make a complaint. Unfortunately, I have had nothing but problems there... last year photos... this year bank letters... but I would never dare/bother to complain... no point... just remain polite and smile regardless. Clearly some IO officers are just as the post title says, "joking, stupid or just nasty" or all three :-)

Case in point: the bank letter/bank book fiasco last month. 4 visits required. 555

This year reams (more) paperwork it seems and they do want 2 copies of absolutely everything... no problem I think.. then the bank book fiasco starts.

VISIT 1 - Problem 1

1st letter - REJECTED - letter ok, but bank book NOT updated. What? I explained I did update book... but nothing had changed since last update... so I go back to bank ask for update... same thing... Teller updates book... same date. What to do? Teller suggest withdraw a few baht to get new date. Rush back to IO...

VISIT 2 - Problem 2

1st letter - REJECTED - book date now okay, but now letter "no good", amount in letter is not EXACTLY same as amount in book! You got to be kidding? ...but keep smiling.

So go back to the bank, again... smile from Tellers... ask for new letter asap... why, we give you already... explain/smile.. okay they say (it's in the sticks so they say 2 days from HQ) cannot I say, I need new letter NOW as letter amount/date has to match bank book amount/date... same we did this morning, remember. Everything has to match, okay? Smile Smile. Ok understand, wait a while she says... go eat... come back later... finally... another Teller comes out with new letter in new envelope... all stamped and signed. Quick check and rush back to IO...

VISIT 3 - Problem 3

2nd letter - REJECTED - dates okay on both letter and bank book... BUT now the officer says "you show too much money" in letter (apparently letter showed all bank accounts rather than fixed account only)" Smile... but think <deleted>... are you insane ? (Note: rule is clearly 400k "or" over)

It appears the kindly and very pretty Teller decided to include all my various held "accounts" and balances in a list the new letter... so off I trot to the bank, again... giggles and laughter from the bank staff... you again... who obviously think I just am just looking for any excuse to come back to flirt with them.

Still smiling... but on the verge of losing it... I literally escort her to a PC in back room and tell her exactly what to write. It's now getting very late, IO about to close... so rush back as fast as I can...

VISIT 4

3rd letter - ACCEPTED

Smile, hand in the envelope... officer not even bother to look up, not even bother to look at new letter. But gestures me away with his hand and says okay okay, accepted. :-)

Conclusion... I think there is a combination of being finicky (obeying the exact rules), stupid (not understanding their own rules), and then sensing their chance to play silly buggers and/or be very nasty... as clearly some of them have nothing else in their sad life.

[Tod Daniels]

Changwattana is FAR from the hel_l-hole you allude to. In fact it's the opposite; being a brand spanking new, ultra modern, GIANT government office complex the size of a soccer stadium chock full of bank branches, TWO food courts, a 7/11 an S&P, Chesters, copy/photo shops, even a hair dresser and a coupla clothing shops too.

I will concur with the O/P in regard to Thanon Changwattana. It is a total cluster-fuc_k traffic wise, especially right there at Soi 7 where you turn to Thai Immigrations. They have the traffic lights installed but NOT working forcing one lane to go way down the street pull a u-turn and come back to get into the soi. It took us longer to get out of the government complex and to the freeway, than almost the entire trip back into downtown Bangkok.

I went there Tuesday with two people to get them extensions of stay based on retirement as well as do 90 day reporting for some people too lazy to make the trip out themselves. Less than 20 minutes later BOTH people had secured their yearly extensions of stay based on retirement, and were off waiting for their re-entry permits. It was about as painless a process as can be expected dealing with the thai government employees. The 90 day reporting took me all of 2 minutes and that was for FIVE different passports (none of them mine ).

I have done a few extensions of stay based on marriage to a thai national, and all those guys had to show their lease agreement; to prove they could indeed get the extension at Changwattana (now that you must go to the office assigned to your address). They had to show a map to their house, as well as needing all the previously mentioned documentation for that type of extension. The officials were not as fast as they are when issuing retirement extensions, but they both flew thru within 30-40 minutes, with no additional paperwork required.

Better to go with TOOO much documentation, than not enough forcing another trip out there. A little searching of this forum can give you quite the heads up of what can or might be required.

Sorry you had problems, but like other posters pointed out, confronting the immigrations officials (unless you can actually converse with them in more than 2-word-tourist-thai), is most definitely a path you don't want to go down. Demanding to see the 'rule-book' is tantamount to being set on a hoop-jumping 'extra document' acquiring wild goose chase. They can and will make your experience much less enjoyable. I'm only saying the individual officers are fairly autonomous in their ability to approve or deny on a whim.

It is my experience in both accompanying as well as watching all too many of foreigners parade thru the old Suan Plu and the new Changwattana that ANY display of negative emotion and/or anger is quite counter-productive to the entire process.

I also concur with other posters about the outlying immigrations offices being much more finicky in their interpretation of the rules. I guess a little training BEFORE they opened would have gone a long way.

[Arkady]

I think they are legally entitled to ask for any supplementary documents they deem necessary to determine the appropriateness of issuing a visa extension. So there is not much point asking to see the rules, however ridiculous the requirements seem. I think you annoyed them and they deliberately thought up the requirement for the lease to teach the angry farang a lesson in patience in dealing with Thai government officials. They are difficult and hidebound by dreadful bureaucratic rules but I have often found that, if they like you (or your wife), they will sometimes waive some written requirements or do something quickly for you to avoid you coming back. Perhaps you need a charm school course. At the very least, open an account in a larger bank that has a branch in the Government Complex.

As Time Traveller points out, Thai government officials don't regard personal information provided to them by foreigners as confidential. Time and time and time again I have been shown some one's personal information as an example of how to do something by a government official and even several times by Thai lawyers. Once I was shown a sheaf of applications for PR and recognized some of the pics! Education in the right to privacy is obviously sadly lacking but not much we can do about this.

[GarryP]

What would you suggest if you do not have a rental/lease agreement, which is my case? Not too worried yet as I have never needed to show one before, but two people have mentioned it so far, so better safe than sorry.

I can vouch for Arkady's comments on privacy. This doesn't apply just to immigation either, probably all gov't offices are the same. I know the Amphur is like this and also the Land Department.

[lopburi3]

Mail addressed to you at the address. Owner/blue book confirming your residence. Embassy letter. Best to ask the person requesting what they can accept/that you can provide.

[Time Traveller]

Sorry you had problems, but like other posters pointed out, confronting the immigrations officials (unless you can actually converse with them in more than 2-word-tourist-thai), is most definitely a path you don't want to go down. Demanding to see the 'rule-book' is tantamount to being set on a hoop-jumping 'extra document' acquiring wild goose chase. They can and will make your experience much less enjoyable. I'm only saying the individual officers are fairly autonomous in their ability to approve or deny on a whim.

The problem was not with communication, but my suggestion for some flexibility, and even both the first service officer and her supervisor admitted that they could see that the bank account balance would still be the same today (because of the letter) compared with the day before which was the last transaction (bank book & letter showing same amount). The supervisor pointed out that it was not her decision since the person approving the applications (3rd level) required that the bank bank displayed a balance on the day of the application. She added that the higher priority is on the Bank book date and said that the bank letter could even be dated a day or two before. (true? Well maybe someone else has some knowledge here)

For anyone's interest, I think the ill feeling arose was when I was requested to sign a document stating that I understand for next extension bank account balance of 400k must be in the bank for at least 2months (although they told me 3 months, again even their own documents are not updated). To this I laughed, and said no need, I won’t be extending by bank account again next year. (I thought it would have been easier than showing income)...The supervisor replied well it’s needed this year, no matter whether next year you’re extending by work or any way it still needs to be signed. After signing, I was then informed about the need for copy of the Lease. My 3rd trip there to hand in the copy of the Lease confirmed my suspicions since they didn't even request to sign the pages like for the other documents and barely looked at them.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Time Traveller

[Time Traveller]

Case in point: the bank letter/bank book fiasco last month. 4 visits required. 555

Conclusion... I think there is a combination of being finicky (obeying the exact rules), stupid (not understanding their own rules), and then sensing their chance to play silly buggers and/or be very nasty... as clearly some of them have nothing else in their sad life.

Wow! Sorry to hear that story, and I thought my 3 visits was complete time wasting. It is strange that they like to drip feed the required information to applicants over several visits. Particularly since they never seem to answer their telephone number and the website is not updated with complete info either. (With the latest political problems, maybe the DSI need to learn some lessons from Immigration on how to guard inside information !)

Thanks to everyone for the advice. BTW I when I wrote hellhole, I meant the actual road itself not the Government centre or the Imm office. Which looks good and hopefully in the future should be a very efficient processing centre. A little bit of flexibilty and use of technology would be appreciated also.

[moe666]

I can sympathise with you and your experience. I do think we forget the pressure these people are under from there higher ups and also the applicants themselves, they see hundreds of people a day and what number of those are jerks and have no respect or understanding of what they go thru.

My experience extending my tourist visa in Chiang Mai was nothing but top notch and professional. I know not as complicated but still there is always a chance for a real experience.

Good luck next time

[sporkyulp]

Have had a retirement visa for several years. Could never understand all those letters to the Bangkok Psst wailing about the terrible service given at immigration. But when I went to CW to renew my retirement visa back in October, they said I couldn't because my bank account had fallen below 800,000 baht during the previous 3 months. Fair enough. So had to leave country and return on a tourist visa. After the money was in my account for three months I returned to CW and then they said I needed proof of the money having been transferred into my account. This was a new twist. Have never had a problem at the old Suan Plu office. So now I have 800,000 in my bank account but seem to need to have to transfer another 800,000 in??? I asked the IO to show me the new transfer rule but she just pushed a paper toward me that listed the old rules - nothing about needing proof of transfer. I suspect they are making it hard so that we will use a fixer and they will get their tea money via the fee you pay the fixer. It's not worth the hassle to go out there. I suspect if I were to go again with all the documents I think I need they would come up with some other requirement (you need to wear purple shoes on Thursday)...am going the fixer route from now on.

[phetaroi]

am going the fixer route from now on.

So, what's a fixer, who much does it cost, and is it legal?

[4u2mad]

And of course with an 'O' visa, multiple entry,its just a trip outside Thailand, with the duty free shopping every 90 days. Normally happy smiley faces on both borders! Even one time when office was shut, re-entered Thailand without visa, no problem with a new 90 day stamp.

I realise that a trip to your home country every 15 months to renew 'O' does not suit everybody, but I understand there are ways around this also.

As to Thai immigration, I've had the same 'service' from my UK embassy. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing.

Far better to minimise contact with all government agents, all tared with the same brush IMO.

[thaiphoon]

then they said I needed proof of the money having been transferred into my account.

There is no requirement to show source of funds from abroad, but used to be. Only that 800k has to be in Thai bank account for 3 months before renewal of retirement extension. You should of asked to speak to a senior officer to resolve.

[jazzbo]

I do not not think it unreasonable that upon being shown 800K in a Thai bank account the IO might want to get an idea of the provenance of such funds... and that one should be prepared for this exercise of IO discretion.

[KhaoNiaw]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and advice. Like I said it was just me expressing a complaint and to see if anyone else had a similiar experiences. One comment I think summed it up. "Assume you will need to go there more than once". I only wish it wasn't so far away. In anycase, I'm thinking to transfer to Samut Prakarn immigration next year since my wife has a house there. Has anyone had any experience with the Immigration office at Samut Prakarn ? I've visited the office once before and it looked very quiet and relaxed.

Samut Prakan used to be great and hardly anyone there but it's much busier these days and they can get a bit frazzled.

I do my 90-day reports there and that causes confusion now. My visa extension is always done through my employer in Bangkok but my home address is in Samut Prakan. When I do the 90-day report, they look at the passport stamp, have the supervisor look at it, think about telling me I should be doing it in Bangkok, ask me if I live in Samut Prakan and then it's accepted.

Edited May 1, 2010 by KhaoNiaw

[My Friend Same]

I just get a 1 year non o based on marriage and it's esy peasy. I dont need none of this bs

[opalhort]

Since the move to Chiang Watanna they have required same day evidence of bank deposit. For most people this is easy as most banks have a branch office within 100 meters of the Immigration office (down one floor) and are aware of the requirements.

For me this could mean a big problem.

In the past a two days old letter was never any problem.

I have a fixed deposit accoount which updates only every three months. It can only be updated or have any transactions recorded at the branch it was opened (K-Bank, a small sub branch near home). Also the letter can only be issued there and the application for the letter has to be submitted at that branch but will be available for collection only the next day, yet it will show the date of the application!

Should I be worried or do the bank branches at Imm HQ have the facilities to solve this problem (by overriding their own internal branch policies)?

opalhort

[lopburi3]

I believe they have the ability to issue letters for any account as part of the reason they are there. But a fixed deposit may not get the same treatment as passbook savings in any case as it is obvious that it is not a temporary loan.

[clockworkorange]

To the OP.

The simple rule when dealing with the Thai bureacracy is plan to go twice. The first time is to find exactly what documents you need in addition to what you have already prepared, and the second time to actually submit our application. The rules change all the time, and the interpretation of the officials of what are ambiguous rules also varies. One thing is for sure: they will never back down once they have told you that you need to provide any given piece supporting evidence, and if you get upset they will make it harder for you.

All complaining and getting angry does in raise your blood pressure. If you remain calm, cheerul and polite the officils will coach you through the process and you will get through much more easily.

[GarryP]

Sporky noted that they requested that evidence of transfer of funds be shown. What about the many foreigners who have been living in Thailand for years, like me, whose funds are all located in Thailand. It really does not make sense. The more I read these visa/extension topics the more worrying it gets. So far I have not had any problems.

[parallaxtech]

then they said I needed proof of the money having been transferred into my account.

There is no requirement to show source of funds from abroad, but used to be. Only that 800k has to be in Thai bank account for 3 months before renewal of retirement extension. You should of asked to speak to a senior officer to resolve.

You can see my predicament on another thread "Nightmare at Samui Immigration." Yesterday, Samui Imm refused my extension because my savings account was drawing interest at .75%. I indicated that the extensions for the last five years had been approved based on this same savings account. I politely asked to see the supervisor. After that I was just rudely told to "go back to America." When someone tells you no visa because your shirt is blue, are you supposed to smile and say thanks? They offered me no advice or options, just get out. I asked a visa fixer for help and he wanted 25KTHB up front. This sounds outrageous to me.

[lopburi3]

Actually you did not have 800k in such an account but tried to use another account you described as a "fund book" but later say was a fixed deposit account and the combination was not accepted. What will happen with a normal 800k in passbook account for the required period is not known from your experience.

[parallaxtech]

Actually you did not have 800k in such an account but tried to use another account you described as a "fund book" but later say was a fixed deposit account and the combination was not accepted. What will happen with a normal 800k in passbook account for the required period is not known from your experience.

Lop, in 2006 I went in with only my fund book account (800K) and they said I must show them all my bank accounts in Thailand. I have three bank accounts with SCB, all cash accounts from my US banks. One account is a no interest account with 400KTHB in it (800KTHB as of Monday morning); the other accounts are called "fund book" accounts, which means they accrue interest. Fund book one gets .75% interest and funds can be withdrawn with a one-day notice. Fund book 2 gets 2.5% interest, but if you withdraw the funds within one year you lose the interest. The law says 800KTHB in a Thai bank, which I far exceed, nothing about interest or it must be in SCB, not Bangkok Bank, or that it has to be deposited only on Monday. Once again, they have never questioned these accounts for the last five years, so why now?

Edited May 8, 2010 by parallaxtech

[skytraining]

Can I ask anyone with experience of these matters:

(i) what exactly is the Kor Sor 3 (?) marriage registration document required now? For years I have been using a certified copy of my UK wedding certificate - we did not get married here, but do we have to now?

(ii) My funds are in a sterling account in HSBC Bank Thailand in Bangkok as I travel quite frequently and I get monthly statements showing the Thai Baht equivalent clearly. They don't have an ATM in Chaeng Wattana, and don't provide a bank book at all: what should I do re the 400K requirement? I don't want to put all the sterling into THB if I can avoid it...

Any thoughts? I am guessing I will have problems this year at CW as I don't tick all the bureaucratic boxes...

Thanks!!

[lopburi3]

Non visa rant post removed.

[ataloss]

Who are these people, I earn ten times their wage I have more in Bank then they will ever have.

These are the people who realize just that.

Thus you can easily become a puppet on a string when you display attitude as the OP certainly did.

Good for you and your shiny shoes - it helps.