Thai PM Abhisit Says Seeking Political Solution To Crisis

[lannarebirth]

What could possibly come from new elections?

- Scenario 1: The Red Shirts and PTP win and build the government. The constitution is amended and all former PPP and TRT members including Thaksin are given amnesty. Thaksin is again PM. The PAD has been closely monitoring the whole thing and also know from previous experience that whatever they do, no-one will ever be prosecuted. So they start again their rallies. Until the "new"government is forced out. Back to square 1.

- Scenario 2: The Democrats and their allies win and Abhisit is again PM. Thaksin and his cronies and the Red Shirt know by now that whatever they do, there will be no consequences, no one will be held responsible. So they go out again and call the "new"government illegal. Back to square 1.

- Scenario 3: The Military step in and stage a coup, all in the name of - you know who - and of course democracy. And we are again where we were in September 2006. Back to square 1.

What's the consequence of this? Yielding to pressure and blackmail, giving in to terrorist and negotiating with them will never solve any problem. It will only give other groups the idea and the appetite to do the same. The only language these people understand is the language of authority and force. Unfortunately this should have been done at the time of the airport occupation. Is it too late now? I am afraid so.

Law and order and government authority are key factors for a peaceful democracy. Double standards as we have seen too much now, must stop.

After having re-established law and order and applied one single standard (to all colors), we can start talking and listening.

Your scenario (1) doesn't include the power vacuum and loss of balance a succession would bring. Thaksin stacks the Army and a new dynasty begins.

[thaihome]

If I remember correctly the red shirts demanded the lower house dissolved in 15 days, Abhisit offered elections by the end of the year. The reds the came back with a 3 month time frame for elections and, and maybe I missed Abhisit's next offer or was it just NO. End of negotiations.

Appears you have a selective memory.

Actually after the PM offered time for the charter amendments and then an election with a time frame of about 9 months. One of the redshirt leaders received an SMS and then cut the discussion off. They never made a counter offer and refused to schedule another meeting.

TH

[dutchweller]

to the Sala Dang intersection -- and there's a lot of people down along that way. It's really a massive encampment.

I was inside this camp over the weekend. As you say, in the day most are sleeping or getting out of the sun. There is no shortage of reds there should they all be awake and ready to fight. They are literally everywhere inside and prepared with piles of rocks, clubs, wooden shields and sharpened bamboo sticks.

And yet there are you, in the midst of all this, in their camp!!!

I am sorry, but any Westerner who feels that its ok to mill around with these idiots, or wants to take some tourist photos back home, should have their heads examined.

You know the sh!t could hit the fan at any time, and yet every day I see posters telling stories of what its like with the reds in their camp!!

The mind boggles

I Wade through the Parasite Red camp every day to WORK!

And I go to WORK because if I failed to do so at least 30 of my Thai Staff will loose ALL income and would probably permanently loose there jobs.

I Worry for my staffs safety every day but I also worry who will pay their rent and put food on their table if they loose their jobs.....

Its No as if Industry in Thailand is Hiring anyone anymore....

And before anyone starts Ranting " Oh another Rich Farnag worrying about Profits of his company gained from the back of the working Thai..

I am Working for a Thai Company Thai Owned and On a LOCAL contract Living a modest Life..

These Reds are Violent Parasites and the only Intention is to cause Mayhem and destruction of Thailand wile lining their own pockets.

[way2muchcoffee]

Newin

Interesting choice. My initial response was to reject this possibly out of hand. I mean Newin? Really? But on second thought he controls a political stronghold at the mouth of Isaan. He might be the kind of person who would appeal to the rural people who largely despise the Democrats at this point. Difficult to say. I haven't been able to get a sense of how his defection from the PPP has affected his popularity. I can see the appeal of this choice amongst the power brokers, but personally I don't think I could support this man. Seems a bit of a slimeball.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[RussellHantz]

Abhisit just has to swallow his pride and make way for elections.

Simple as that.

Been saying that for months.All of this could have been avoided. What is he afraid of?

So every time some jerks come out to the streets the government just steps down, resolve parliament and holds new elections. Doesn't sound very realistic, does it?

When the yellows were protesting at the airport in 2008, Abhisit thought is was a good idea.

Abhisit calls for House dissolution

By The Nation Published on December 3, 2008

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva on Wednesday urged for House dissolution on the ground that a snap election will allow a fresh start to form a viable government to tackle the political and economic woes. ...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30090130

[Netfan]

In his first week in power over a year ago he announced how his main goal was to find National reconciliation and how he would actively work towards this. Has he succeeded so far?

That was at the same press meeting where he vowed to bring the PAD protestors who closed the airport to justice.

In the same afternoon he announced his new Foriegn Minister would be Kasit Promiya (PAD Spokesman)

YES

I clearly remember him saying that national reconciliation was his top priority. If he had actually meant it, he would have started negotiations looooooooooong ago. (and yes, that includes negotiations with Thaksin. but as usual, Abhisit was extremely stubborn about not negotiating with Thaksin - a big mistake as it turns out).

Now time has run out and he is scrambling. Its irresponsible.

Why would he negotiate with a convicted thief on the run? That shows a lack of courage and integrity. Thaksin probably thought Abhisit would break long ago, but he's hung in there, despite the country being extorted by the Reds.

[way2muchcoffee]

I wish him the best of luck, but frankly, it sounds like he is stalling for time against pressure from both PAD and the red insurgents.

Stall for time he must. I still think a forceful dispersal at this point would incense red shirt supporters throughout the nation. Sincere and honest negotiations are the only reasonable way forward. It is now up to the red shirt leaders to realize this basic fact. If they continue in their unlawful terrorist actions they will leave the military and government no other choice but to act. So if Abhisit and Anupong are stalling then more power to them. But the time is running out for all parties. Tick tock, tick tock....

If I remember correctly the red shirts demanded the lower house dissolved in 15 days, Abhisit offered elections by the end of the year. The reds the came back with a 3 month time frame for elections and, and maybe I missed Abhisit's next offer or was it just NO. End of negotiations.

Actually it has been reported that the red shirts were including a general amnesty for all participants in April 10, and the offer was dissolution in 30 days with elections in 90 days. So they went from dissolution in 15 days to dissolution in 30 days, and a general amnesty. The government wasn't prepared to meet these requirements. Of course these negotiations took place behind closed doors so we'll never really know the details of what really was on the table.

[thisismysong]

I don't claim to know everything but I think the Abhisit is going to dissolve the parliament soon. The government just approved the 2011 Budget (one of the main factor that Abhisit is holding back).

I have lots of respect for all the non-violence for the situation, there're so many situation that greater violence could had happen and didn't.

[JacknDanny]

to the Sala Dang intersection -- and there's a lot of people down along that way. It's really a massive encampment.

I was inside this camp over the weekend. As you say, in the day most are sleeping or getting out of the sun. There is no shortage of reds there should they all be awake and ready to fight. They are literally everywhere inside and prepared with piles of rocks, clubs, wooden shields and sharpened bamboo sticks.

And yet there are you, in the midst of all this, in their camp!!!

I am sorry, but any Westerner who feels that its ok to mill around with these idiots, or wants to take some tourist photos back home, should have their heads examined.

You know the sh!t could hit the fan at any time, and yet every day I see posters telling stories of what its like with the reds in their camp!!

The mind boggles

I Wade through the Parasite Red camp every day to WORK!

And I go to WORK because if I failed to do so at least 30 of my Thai Staff will loose ALL income and would probably permanently loose there jobs.

I Worry for my staffs safety every day but I also worry who will pay their rent and put food on their table if they loose their jobs.....

Its No as if Industry in Thailand is Hiring anyone anymore....

And before anyone starts Ranting " Oh another Rich Farnag worrying about Profits of his company gained from the back of the working Thai..

I am Working for a Thai Company Thai Owned and On a LOCAL contract Living a modest Life..

These Reds are Violent Parasites and the only Intention is to cause Mayhem and destruction of Thailand wile lining their own pockets.

My sympathies are with you. I totally agree with your sentiments.

If you need to get through this rabble, in order to go to work, then thats a thankless task.

My post was aimed more at these idiots who think its one huge street party, or who are just being nosey!! Taking their photos with the reds, smiling !!. If it all kicks off, they will be the first to complain about army/ Police brutality. Idiots!!

[way2muchcoffee]

Are you nuts?

If he does that then any group who decides that they do not like who ever the next government is know that all they have to do is cause as much trouble and damage and acts of terrorism and they will get what the want.

Do you realise Abhisit was calling for Somchai to resign when the yellow shirts took over the airport ?

So what?

Do you realize that Somchai didn't resign despite the calls from Abhisit and many others? A call from an opposition party leader is made to benefit their party, in general. A PM must represent the entire country. Perhaps this was why Somchai believed he should not dissolve parliament, but I seriously doubt that.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[bobo16000000]

abhisit just go put n call election well hes not going to as if he did he will be in jail for coruption thats why why do you think he wont leave coruption thats why he will stay on until hes as fat as a pig people think about this this is thailand corupt rule and why the yellow shirt do it in the first place because there are some who is prevented from eating money simple do you think they do it for the people wake up guys

[way2muchcoffee]

OK, here comes a question... it's a long one tho...

I'm getting bored with all the hot air about whether the current government is legit or not. Let's see if we can unpick what actually went on. The Thai House of Representatives is elected in a similar way to the UK House of Commons. In Thailand there are 480 seats up for grabs of which 400 are directly elected through constituencies (like in Britain) and 80 are based on proportional representation with the MPs chosen from party lists. A look at Thailand's parliament website shows that it currently lists 475 MPs. I assume this is up to date.

So the parliament is 5 MPs short of its maximum. In the UK if an MP was unseated, for whatever reason, that seat would be contested with a local election and new MP chosen as soon as practically possible. In Thailand, this would also be the case if the MP came from a constituency. If that MP had been elected via PR from a party list then that list would be consulted again and the name at the top would become the new MP. However, if that party has no more members on that list, or if that party no longer exists then no new MP would replace the one that had stepped down. This is from the new constitution and assume I've read it correctly.

So, going back to the three governments since the 2007 election, the PPP gained 233 seats, 8 short of an overall majority. Now, what I'd like to know (yes I could research this and it would take me ages!) is how many MPs have since been kicked out of parliament, from which parties and whether they were elected by their constituency or by PR?

The importance here, I think, is that when the PPP was dissolved and then regrouped as the PTP, how were many of the vacant parliamentary seats allocated, if at all? Those PPP members elected under PR could not be replaced by PTP members as they were different parties. However, if all PPP MPs who left parliament had been elected from their constituencies, then fresh MPs with the same allegiances could have been elected and regained their coalition majority and, perhaps, an Abhisit government never formed.

The implication of all this is that governments with slim majorities can be destabilised by attacking those PR-elected MPs and that banning a whole party effectively eliminates those PR-elected members without replacement.

That's the clincher for me in my own attempt at rational explanation of the perception of legitimacy. You can understand the above and for that, you are a better person than me, as I do not for one moment doubt its veracity. However, do you really expect an international audience to grasp it or if not your particular points, then those that mean this government is not slightly muddied how it sitting where it is today, i.e as the incumbent power? Unfortunately for Abhisit and his colleagues, the soundbite bought by the international audience is that this government came into power sometime after a military coup in 2006 that removed the elected prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra. It does not matter one jot about the minutiae of legitimacy that we debate endlessly with far greater or lesser knowledge - that is the bit that has stuck and will not un-stick itself. That is why the western press harp on about battles for democracy, as they do not like military coups, period. It does not matter if Abhisit is indeed the right man for the job, the least corrupted, he is forever sullied and in politics, on the world stage, that is a very difficult reputation to shed. All articles that I have read on this subject in press outside of Thailand always at some point refer to the coup and to this government taking power sometime after said coup. I do not write them but I will also not deny them. I feel that Abhisit knows this very well - educated outside of Thailand as he is and I also feel that it goes someway to explaining his inaction and indecision. He knows very well that, at present, were he to move on the protestors and there was a bloodbath (an almost certain outcome), the outcry internationally would sink this country for many many years to come. I think he also knows that this perception is unlikely to change and so he has literally nowhere else to turn. He is damned to some extent nationally if he doesn't and damned internationally if he does. As to the answer, I will let others postulate.

The argument is sound except for one very important point. The PPP knew the election rules specified in the constitution. They knew the consequences. They chose to violate them anyway, and were caught on film doing it. So their dissolution was required as per the constitution. Perhaps if they didn't want to lose their party list MPs they should not commit electoral fraud.

[Publicus]

Abhisit just has to swallow his pride and make way for elections.

Simple as that.

Been saying that for months.All of this could have been avoided. What is he afraid of?

Afraid of the same thing the world is afraid of - a snap election without UN observers during which the Redshirts will rape the political process by hacking democracy to death in order to gain power in the government. While the Redshirts have pulled their stunt asking the UN to save them - from the rule of law in Thailand - and properly have been ignored, the Redshirts would never agree to UN observers during a snap election campaign because the Redshirts need to and want to destroy democratic processes in the country, the little democracy itself that does exist, to be certain they get the most votes in a violence riddled snap election and to be sure it's the country's last election because once these Redshirt leader thugs get their hands on government power and authority, they aren't going to hand it back to either the yellows or to the people themselves.

A snap election would produce only a trail of blood and violence by the Redshirts, it would be the extension of their present actions and behaviours. Only Redshirt supporters would be allowed to vote in a snap election, screened before entering the polling station just the way the Redshirts are stopping everyone to search their bags, determine our intentions, examine loyalties, and allow only members of the tribe to pass.

[bkkjames]

abhisit just go put n call election well hes not going to as if he did he will be in jail for coruption thats why why do you think he wont leave coruption thats why he will stay on until hes as fat as a pig people think about this this is thailand corupt rule and why the yellow shirt do it in the first place because there are some who is prevented from eating money simple do you think they do it for the people wake up guys

no no mate, you first have to go to the top of the page and introduce yourself before posting. please delete your previous post and try again.

[neverdie]

abhisit just go put n call election well hes not going to as if he did he will be in jail for coruption thats why why do you think he wont leave coruption thats why he will stay on until hes as fat as a pig people think about this this is thailand corupt rule and why the yellow shirt do it in the first place because there are some who is prevented from eating money simple do you think they do it for the people wake up guys

Another one .

[whybother]

When the yellows were protesting at the airport in 2008, Abhisit thought is was a good idea.

Abhisit calls for House dissolution

By The Nation Published on December 3, 2008

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva on Wednesday urged for House dissolution on the ground that a snap election will allow a fresh start to form a viable government to tackle the political and economic woes. ...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30090130

This was the day after the PPP were disbanded.

The PTP were in government (with a caretaker PM at this stage).

The PTP could have called elections, but they thought they would have enough votes to elect a new PTP PM.

So we wouldn't be having this problem if the PTP had followed Abhisit's advise and dissolved the house.

Edited April 27, 2010 by whybother

[Siripon]

Never mind what this man says about the legitimacy of his government, he should realize that not all media can be controlled. Of course he will claim that he is legitimate. But what he forget to mention is that numerous elected representatives have shown the utmost disregard for their voters by switching alliances under pressure of the army. CNN works with a army controlled station, so it is neither independent nor willing to ask the right questions. Compared with the BBC he is let off the hook easily. The right questions should have been:

1. Why is he not living up to his promise of reconciliation

2. Why is he damaging the countries name by using the word terrorist, while his government holds a mammasan as minister of commerce and a Foreign minister who is himself under investigation for the airport occupation. The precise term that the prosecuting office was using is" Economic Terrorism".

3. How come they assigned a such important post (PM) to a man, who has no experience whatsoever in leading a city, province or anything of any importance, let alone a country in trouble.

He should also explain to the world why he has ordered to use of the army in 2009 and 2010, damaging the country's image. When he came out with the same pre-cooked answers in an earlier BBC interview the interviewer was quick to counter his arguments, Abhisit looked helpless and at a loss.

According the economist today foreign diplomats ask the same question. What the hel_l is an unexperienced man doing here and especially at this moment. Learning at the job is fine, but not after Sonthi has raped democracy. Last but not least, there was a vote about the constitution. It was narrowly won, because people were tired. But if you take all the no show voters into account it was clearly defeated with over 75% of the people either not voting or voting no.

The NLD even came out with a statement from aung Suu Kyi which mentioned the Thai constitution as a example why constitutions dictated by an army are worthless. Do not tell it to the opportunists in Thailand though. Banharn and family, newin and family and others had no problem changing their alliance and rubber stamping legislation which was retroactively imposed on people. I do not think you can even find in Africa countries where this is happening. It says a lot about this government. Just as it says a lot that they flout one baseless accusation after another. More news for Abhisit: If he thinks that he has the situation in the provinces under control he should change his local newspaper subscription for a foreign one and download Sopcast (although blocked in Thailand) in order to see more than one point of view.

It will be a day of celebration when the clique around Abhisit will be banned too for the next 5 years.

1. How can reconciliation occur when reds say dissolve Parliament in 15 days- no negotiations!

2 The M79 attacks on the oil depot at Patum Thani, the C4 explosives planted at the base of the concrete pylons at Chiang Rak hoping to plunge Bangkok into darkness on April 10, the M79 attacks at Silom last Thursday- the conclusion of the direction of the attack has already been completed by Pornthip, the men in black behind the red lines on April 10.There's plenty of evidence of terrorists working with the red shirts.

3. Aphisit has plenty of experience in Parliament and the country was doing just fine before Thaksin got upset over half his money was taken away- the price of sugar cane is over 1000 baht a tonne compared to 600 baht under Thaksin, likewise cassava is over 2 baht a kilo compared to 1 baht under Thaksin, the price of rubber is over 110 baht a kilo.

Millions of rice farmers received subsidies in the last rice growing season compared to only 500,000 under Thaksin though there are problems with the current second rice harvest.

Thaksin raped democracy and the coup was necessary to stop him.

[mitrapaap]

abhisit just go put n call election well hes not going to as if he did he will be in jail for coruption thats why why do you think he wont leave coruption thats why he will stay on until hes as fat as a pig people think about this this is thailand corupt rule and why the yellow shirt do it in the first place because there are some who is prevented from eating money simple do you think they do it for the people wake up guys

some thoughtfully placed punctuation might help us to understand what your are trying to say.

[elkangorito]

abhisit just go put n call election well hes not going to as if he did he will be in jail for coruption thats why why do you think he wont leave coruption thats why he will stay on until hes as fat as a pig people think about this this is thailand corupt rule and why the yellow shirt do it in the first place because there are some who is prevented from eating money simple do you think they do it for the people wake up guys

Can you please rewrite this in English!

Edited April 27, 2010 by elkangorito

[rayw]

Ehh lets remember that Thaksin was sacked as PM because he was guilty of corruption and fraud, that would happen in the UK and most other civilised countries. The military had no choice given the evidence before them to overthrow the corrupt Government, not to take dictatorial power but for a short temporary period to see new elections took place under fair constitutional rules, just a pity they were not independently monitored by the UN or similar for legitimacy. So not really like a military coup that takes power for themselves and their leader permanently in their own interest, this coup was peaceful, welcomed by most Thais it seemed at the time and in the circumstances a good thing to lead to better more true democracy which it could have done if we had had monitored elections. Thaksin's PPP party were also proved to be clearly guilty of corruption and dissolved by rule of law and the Thai courts are indeed apolitical and independent as they are in the UK. The evidence was damning so most who actually bother to read the details could see this clearly. Then heavens forbid after the vote buying election that followed the coup Thaksins brother in law took over the PM role through the newly formed, and minority elected, PTP party which had allegiances to Thaksin himself. Yet again they were also later found guilty and dissolved, so it is clear that anything Thaksin is involved in stinks of fraud and corruption, why am I not surprised as I see him flying around the world to banana states in his private jet funded mainly by his fraud !! His record before he came into politics stinks too as a right wing corrupt fraudster who stitched up his friend and business partner like a real right wing elitist selfish a'hole that he is.

Oh and lets not forget that Thaksin was delivered a guilty as charged verdict WHEN his brother in law was PM and his puppet PTP party were in power, so hardly a political judgement from the courts as nobody in their right mind thought that at the time. If Thaksin wasn't so ridiculously and unnecessarily dangerous you would just have to laugh at the silly mans antics and his running away weasel cowardice too. I hate crooks like him, the world has far too many of them and many still in power too who do a disservice to the vast majority of decent folk who want to trust in their elected Governments.

[neverdie]

Abhisit just has to swallow his pride and make way for elections.

Simple as that.

Clearly some can't see the wood thru the trees.

Whatever you say mate, just don't send me any more of those weird, sexually perverted PMs, OK ?

Suggesting that I did something, that I didnt, definately slanderous. Sharpen your act, because whilst we did exchange PM's briefly there was nothing 'sexual' about it. Perhaps you miscontrued what I meant by asking, "Don't you get tired of having you're hand on it".

Why don't you try adding some comment of value to the thread, other than you're typical song and dance, which got really boring after a few hours, now we are into week what?

[whybother]

Ehh lets remember that Thaksin was sacked as PM because he was guilty of corruption and fraud, that would happen in the UK and most other civilised countries. The military had no choice given the evidence before them to overthrow the corrupt Government, not to take dictatorial power but for a short temporary period to see new elections took place under fair constitutional rules, just a pity they were not independently monitored by the UN or similar for legitimacy. So not really like a military coup that takes power for themselves and their leader permanently in their own interest, this coup was peaceful, welcomed by most Thais it seemed at the time and in the circumstances a good thing to lead to better more true democracy which it could have done if we had had monitored elections. Thaksin's PPP party were also proved to be clearly guilty of corruption and dissolved by rule of law and the Thai courts are indeed apolitical and independent as they are in the UK. The evidence was damning so most who actually bother to read the details could see this clearly. Then heavens forbid after the vote buying election that followed the coup Thaksins brother in law took over the PM role through the newly formed, and minority elected, PTP party which had allegiances to Thaksin himself. Yet again they were also later found guilty and dissolved, so it is clear that anything Thaksin is involved in stinks of fraud and corruption, why am I not surprised as I see him flying around the world to banana states in his private jet funded mainly by his fraud !! His record before he came into politics stinks too as a right wing corrupt fraudster who stitched up his friend and business partner like a real right wing elitist selfish a'hole that he is.

Oh and lets not forget that Thaksin was delivered a guilty as charged verdict WHEN his brother in law was PM and his puppet PTP party were in power, so hardly a political judgement from the courts as nobody in their right mind thought that at the time. If Thaksin wasn't so ridiculously and unnecessarily dangerous you would just have to laugh at the silly mans antics and his running away weasel cowardice too. I hate crooks like him, the world has far too many of them and many still in power too who do a disservice to the vast majority of decent folk who want to trust in their elected Governments.

corrections - Thaksin's TRT party, and his puppet PPP party. The PTP are the ones that had a chance to dissolve the parliament, but tried to hang on.

[hungryhippo]

The very interview itself is an attempt to convey the Thai government message that this government is indeed legitimate, despite the world's scepticism, the interview actually opening with that very question of why do so many question your government's legitimacy.

They came in to power the exact same way the PPP did. No one is questioning the legitimacy of the government apart from the red shirts who with the PPP, UDD and other pro-Taksin groups are trying as hard as possible to get him back into power.

Frankly anyone calling for an election right this instance is an idiot that doesn't have the countries best interests at heart.

Pro-taksin parties want to revert to the old 1997 constitution with amendments that would allow Taksin to become prime minister again. They want an election to happen right now so they can control who gets to vote with their red shirt protesters.

[elkangorito]

He just needs to kill a bunch of these red shirt terrorists and be done with it. Stop shuking and jiving and kick ass.

Well done Huey. What a great 'political' solution you have here.

[clausewitz]

When the yellows were protesting at the airport in 2008, Abhisit thought is was a good idea.

Abhisit calls for House dissolution

By The Nation Published on December 3, 2008

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva on Wednesday urged for House dissolution on the ground that a snap election will allow a fresh start to form a viable government to tackle the political and economic woes. ...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30090130

This was the day after the PPP were disbanded.

The PTP were in government (with a caretaker PM at this stage).

The PTP could have called elections, but they thought they would have enough votes to elect a new PTP PM.

So we wouldn't be having this problem if the PTP had followed Abhisit's advise and dissolved the house.

Dispute over whether to dissolve Parliament

By The Nation Published on September 2, 2008

"During the joint sitting of the House and the Senate in Parliament on Sunday, Opposition and Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva called on Prime Minister Sama

k Sundaravej to dissolve Parliament. Sacrificing MPs would unlock the crisis and return power so voters could decide the outcome again."

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/02/pol...cs_30082196.php

Democrats not being opportunistic by nominating Abhisit as new Thai PM

TNA 12 September 2008

Thailand's opposition Democrat Party denied being opportunistic in nominating its party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva as prime minister after the caretaker coalition government failed early Friday to appoint a new government leader due to the lack of a quorum in the House. ...

Thais are now killing each other and there are signs that more will be killed. There should be no more negotiations," Mr. Abhisit affirmed.

Asked about his response if the ruling People Power Party dissolved the House, he said the Democrats had proposed a House dissolution from the beginning. "How to do it depends on the situation."

http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=6233

He also called for a house dissolution before that...

[RussellHantz]

Suggesting that I did something, that I didnt, definately slanderous. Sharpen your act, because whilst we did exchange PM's briefly there was nothing 'sexual' about it. Perhaps you miscontrued what I meant by asking, "Don't you get tired of having you're hand on it".

You forget the title of the childish PM you sent me neverdie, (that was the really weird part folks) Go ahead, post it

[bkkjames]

Suggesting that I did something, that I didnt, definately slanderous. Sharpen your act, because whilst we did exchange PM's briefly there was nothing 'sexual' about it. Perhaps you miscontrued what I meant by asking, "Don't you get tired of having you're hand on it".

You forget the title of the childish PM you sent me neverdie, (that was the really weird part folks) Go ahead, post it

I must admit Russel, you in those tight shorts and shovel in your hand make me glad I am hetro.

[neverdie]

Suggesting that I did something, that I didnt, definately slanderous. Sharpen your act, because whilst we did exchange PM's briefly there was nothing 'sexual' about it. Perhaps you miscontrued what I meant by asking, "Don't you get tired of having you're hand on it".

You forget the title of the childish PM you sent me neverdie, (that was the really weird part folks) Go ahead, post it

Perhaps that was a typo

ps: I only called you something that rhymed with Russell.

Edited April 27, 2010 by neverdie

[rayw]

corrections - Thaksin's TRT party, and his puppet PPP party. The PTP are the ones that had a chance to dissolve the parliament, but tried to hang on.

Absolutely correctr, my bad. Sorry a senior moment Thai Rak Thai (TRT) was indeed Thaksin's corrupt party of Government selling nice tasting small carrots to the Thai people whilst creaming off the Thai assets for his own gains (what a c*nt) and of course they were immediately in power before the much needed and unavoidable coup.

[rychrde]

OK, here comes a question... it's a long one tho...

I'm getting bored with all the hot air about whether the current government is legit or not. Let's see if we can unpick what actually went on. The Thai House of Representatives is elected in a similar way to the UK House of Commons. In Thailand there are 480 seats up for grabs of which 400 are directly elected through constituencies (like in Britain) and 80 are based on proportional representation with the MPs chosen from party lists. A look at Thailand's parliament website shows that it currently lists 475 MPs. I assume this is up to date.

So the parliament is 5 MPs short of its maximum. In the UK if an MP was unseated, for whatever reason, that seat would be contested with a local election and new MP chosen as soon as practically possible. In Thailand, this would also be the case if the MP came from a constituency. If that MP had been elected via PR from a party list then that list would be consulted again and the name at the top would become the new MP. However, if that party has no more members on that list, or if that party no longer exists then no new MP would replace the one that had stepped down. This is from the new constitution and assume I've read it correctly.

So, going back to the three governments since the 2007 election, the PPP gained 233 seats, 8 short of an overall majority. Now, what I'd like to know (yes I could research this and it would take me ages!) is how many MPs have since been kicked out of parliament, from which parties and whether they were elected by their constituency or by PR?

The importance here, I think, is that when the PPP was dissolved and then regrouped as the PTP, how were many of the vacant parliamentary seats allocated, if at all? Those PPP members elected under PR could not be replaced by PTP members as they were different parties. However, if all PPP MPs who left parliament had been elected from their constituencies, then fresh MPs with the same allegiances could have been elected and regained their coalition majority and, perhaps, an Abhisit government never formed.

The implication of all this is that governments with slim majorities can be destabilised by attacking those PR-elected MPs and that banning a whole party effectively eliminates those PR-elected members without replacement.

29 constituency MP's lost their seats as a result of the disolution of the parties. A by-election was held on Jan 11, 2009. The coalition parties gained 20 of the 29 seats, increasing the majority in the House.

TH

Many thanks!

Missed that bit of data!

Do you know how many PR-elected MPs lost their seats and how many of those were replaced? Or a link to such information. If I've understood the constitution correctly, banning a party does not disqualify a sitting MP from changing party and remaining in position, even if PR-elected; only if an MP becomes 'unfit' to hold that position does it trigger either a local election or a look at the PR roll-call. I guess we know that the net outcome was 5 'missing' seats, which in itself would make no difference now but may well have done in 2008/2009 when both top parties were claiming a working majority.