Thai PM Abhisit Says Seeking Political Solution To Crisis

[way2muchcoffee]

Laws? The reds don't need no stinkin' laws...

The same can be said of those that take power by military force.

The military took power by military force. Then there were elections. The rules and consequences for violation of those rules were clear. The party that came to power from those elections blatantly broke the rules. Their fault. Nobody made them do it. And they were even filmed doing it. So they were dissolved. So sorry. Try to follow election rules next time.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[chantorn]

"Thai PM Abhisit Says Seeking Political Solution To Crisis"

I am not sure if I understand correctly. Does Mark mean he is using political mean and not by force?

"Political means" can include all sorts of things including the truth, lies, propaganda, alliances of convenience, backstabbing, deal making, you name it. Its almost always less bloody but it doesn't always provide long term solutions. Not that violence does of course. He knows he has a lot to lose if force is used, evn if the majority come to believe that it is justified.

Thanks god. What a relief that Mark decided not to do a hard crack down. Human life could be perished otherwise.

[animatic]

Suggesting that I did something, that I didnt, definately slanderous. Sharpen your act, because whilst we did exchange PM's briefly there was nothing 'sexual' about it. Perhaps you miscontrued what I meant by asking, "Don't you get tired of having you're hand on it".

You forget the title of the childish PM you sent me neverdie, (that was the really weird part folks) Go ahead, post it

Perhaps that was a typo

ps: I only called you something that rhymed with Russell.

Bussell? Cussell? Dussell? Fussell? Gussell? Jussell? Kussell? Lussell? Mussell? Nussell? Pussell? Sussell? Tussell? Vussell? Wussell?

Red Corpuscle?

[meelousee]

"who mostly support former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, to disperse if elections are held in three months' time."

Not even close to being true

[ChiangMaiFun]

Unfortunately there is only two ways out of this. Cave in and set up elections within 3-4 months, or man up and disperse the reds. If the Reds won't negociate then there simply is no middle ground.

As for "Rule of Law" the Reds have proved over and over what a big joke that was. At least nobody can throw accusations of double standards: the law simply doesn't apply to anybody anymore.

It wouldn't be 'caving in' but a reasonable response by an un-mandated government - should have been done 3 weeks ago - go to the country and seek assurance that the people AGREE with what the government are doing - but they won't do that will they and (drum roll) because... tut tut tut taaa! they may lose - so what's another way? ermmmm????? stall, stall, stall - maybe that'll work huh?

[Insight]

"Thai PM Abhisit Says Seeking Political Solution To Crisis"

I am not sure if I understand correctly. Does Mark mean he is using political mean and not by force?

"Political means" can include all sorts of things including the truth, lies, propaganda, alliances of convenience, backstabbing, deal making, you name it. Its almost always less bloody but it doesn't always provide long term solutions. Not that violence does of course. He knows he has a lot to lose if force is used, evn if the majority come to believe that it is justified.

Thanks god. What a relief that Mark decided not to do a hard crack down. Human life could be perished otherwise.

After the dare you gave me last week I'm surprised you give a toss about "human life".

[animatic]

OK, here comes a question... it's a long one tho...

I'm getting bored with all the hot air about whether the current government is legit or not. Let's see if we can unpick what actually went on. The Thai House of Representatives is elected in a similar way to the UK House of Commons. In Thailand there are 480 seats up for grabs of which 400 are directly elected through constituencies (like in Britain) and 80 are based on proportional representation with the MPs chosen from party lists. A look at Thailand's parliament website shows that it currently lists 475 MPs. I assume this is up to date.

So the parliament is 5 MPs short of its maximum. In the UK if an MP was unseated, for whatever reason, that seat would be contested with a local election and new MP chosen as soon as practically possible. In Thailand, this would also be the case if the MP came from a constituency. If that MP had been elected via PR from a party list then that list would be consulted again and the name at the top would become the new MP. However, if that party has no more members on that list, or if that party no longer exists then no new MP would replace the one that had stepped down. This is from the new constitution and assume I've read it correctly.

So, going back to the three governments since the 2007 election, the PPP gained 233 seats, 8 short of an overall majority. Now, what I'd like to know (yes I could research this and it would take me ages!) is how many MPs have since been kicked out of parliament, from which parties and whether they were elected by their constituency or by PR?

The importance here, I think, is that when the PPP was dissolved and then regrouped as the PTP, how were many of the vacant parliamentary seats allocated, if at all? Those PPP members elected under PR could not be replaced by PTP members as they were different parties. However, if all PPP MPs who left parliament had been elected from their constituencies, then fresh MPs with the same allegiances could have been elected and regained their coalition majority and, perhaps, an Abhisit government never formed.

The implication of all this is that governments with slim majorities can be destabilised by attacking those PR-elected MPs and that banning a whole party effectively eliminates those PR-elected members without replacement.

29 constituency MP's lost their seats as a result of the disolution of the parties. A by-election was held on Jan 11, 2009. The coalition parties gained 20 of the 29 seats, increasing the majority in the House.

TH

Many thanks!

Missed that bit of data!

Do you know how many PR-elected MPs lost their seats and how many of those were replaced? Or a link to such information. If I've understood the constitution correctly, banning a party does not disqualify a sitting MP from changing party and remaining in position, even if PR-elected; only if an MP becomes 'unfit' to hold that position does it trigger either a local election or a look at the PR roll-call. I guess we know that the net outcome was 5 'missing' seats, which in itself would make no difference now but may well have done in 2008/2009 when both top parties were claiming a working majority.

As I understood it, the ONLY MP's to lose seats in a party disolution AFTER they are elected are

the actual party leaders implicated in the crime that brought the party down.

Since election crime is considered to take down the registered party leadership

it is an incentive to NOT have party leaders taking such chances, and thus limiting

corrupt election practices. Something PPP didn't take seriously... at their peril.

[lio]

hi, the truth is that here we talk about red shirts, the Prime Minister, Taksin, etc, they are only puppets, nobody in any country, even U.S.A. go up there in positions with out the blessing of big big sharks.

The think is that now the reds cannot loose, because the red puppets, will end in jail and probabily get minimum life sentences, same case was for the yellow shirts, if they did not succede, they all were going in jail, I mean the main figures, instead they won and now they all are in key government positions, that is a thanks in my eyes.

Closing down an international Airport is quite a big crime also here in Thailand, at that moment was succede o succede no matter what.

So now is a matter of fact, that the reds cannot loose, and they will fight untill the end, if the peoples that move the string will not give their blessing.

Abbhissit I think is forced to stay, now is a big historical moment for Thailand, and change now to the reds will almost surely end the monarchy and take off all the power.

That is not been accepted from some in the real family, hope I dont.

One other point, in general Thai are like wind in my opinion, they change side very quickly.

[animatic]

abhisit just go put n call election well hes not going to as if he did he will be in jail for coruption thats why why do you think he wont leave coruption thats why he will stay on until hes as fat as a pig people think about this this is thailand corupt rule and why the yellow shirt do it in the first place because there are some who is prevented from eating money simple do you think they do it for the people wake up guys

some thoughtfully placed punctuation might help us to understand what your are trying to say.

Are you saying that the post is beyond salvation?

Aside from its being a classic run-on sentence......"there are some who is prevented from eating money" particularly catches my eye.

After a money meal do you need a toothpick?

[gemini81]

Abhisit just has to swallow his pride and make way for elections.

Simple as that.

Clearly some can't see the wood thru the trees.

I second that. How would that really make everything better? The people of Isaan, poor farmer, even rich red shirts already have representation.

Abhisit is about the only decent prime minister they've had since before Thaksin.

Its not like a new election is gonna make every red shirt instantly hit the jackpot or suddenly get huge checks in the mail if thats what they expect.

[personchester]

I wish him the best of luck, but frankly, it sounds like he is stalling for time against pressure from both PAD and the red insurgents.

Stall for time he must. I still think a forceful dispersal at this point would incense red shirt supporters throughout the nation. Sincere and honest negotiations are the only reasonable way forward. It is now up to the red shirt leaders to realize this basic fact. If they continue in their unlawful terrorist actions they will leave the military and government no other choice but to act. So if Abhisit and Anupong are stalling then more power to them. But the time is running out for all parties. Tick tock, tick tock....

There must be negotiations and nothing else, any substandial force used by police/army to disperse the 'Red's' from their spot in BKK will of course be successful, but it will not solve the political problem at all, on the contrary, the same kind of street protests will then be carried right across the country, and this is bound to result into street confrontations with the 'Yellow's, and since army and police are divided on this matter, it could bring Thailand to the brink of civil war, talks are essential.

[animatic]

If they [the UDD] continue in their unlawful terrorist actions they will leave the military and government no other choice but to act. So if Abhisit and Anupong are stalling then more power to them. But the time is running out for all parties. Tick tock, tick tock....

I'm trying to think of one major crime that has not already been committed by the UDD

- murder of Army personnel (April 10)

- intimidation of the public

- armed insurrection by commandeering police and army equipment, including weapons

- killing of citizens (BTS Sala Daeng)l

- kidnapping (EC commissioner, police at the SC Hotel fiasco)

- usurping the power of the state (stopping and searching motorists and pedestrians, preventing the police and military from carrying out their duties)

- impeding people and businesses from going about their lawful rights (such as closing down Central Chitlom, and BTS today)

- erecting barricades in public places

Given this list, I'm wondering what ELSE has to happen before the military 'have no choice'??? Haven't we already gone LONG past that point, and don't the reds already know it. Abhisit and Anupong are living in a dream world in the 11th Army Regiment barracks, hoping that if they just keep singing 'la-la-lala-la' with their eyes closed for long enough the reds will go away. It's not going to happen. The reds are going to keep provoking until they either run the country de facto by taking over the duties of the security forces or the PAD and other citizens start fighting them in the streets.

The government has already fallen. What remains to be seen is who will fill the power vacuum?

I wish I didn't but I agree with this posting!

The missed

Endangering children

Impeding fair use of the public airwaves

Assault of pedestrians and drives on the public ways

Unlicensed Porta-Potties

Unlawful construction

Bomb making

And likely Frotage On A Public Conveyance

[elcent]

Laws? The reds don't need no stinkin' laws...

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose



That's when somebody else has to take over.

[jcbangkok]

Aside from its being a classic run-on sentence......"there are some who is prevented from eating money" particularly catches my eye.

After a money meal do you need a toothpick?

Does change come out the other end?

[animatic]

In his first week in power over a year ago he announced how his main goal was to find National reconciliation and how he would actively work towards this. Has he succeeded so far?

That was at the same press meeting where he vowed to bring the PAD protestors who closed the airport to justice.

In the same afternoon he announced his new Foriegn Minister would be Kasit Promiya (PAD Spokesman)

YES

I clearly remember him saying that national reconciliation was his top priority. If he had actually meant it, he would have started negotiations looooooooooong ago. (and yes, that includes negotiations with Thaksin. but as usual, Abhisit was extremely stubborn about not negotiating with Thaksin - a big mistake as it turns out).

Now time has run out and he is scrambling. Its irresponsible.

Kasit was never a PAD spokesman.

He never was a PAD organizer.

Nor a PAD decision maker of any sort.

He did make a few speaches from PAD statges,

but not as a PAD member, strictly as a guest speaker.

Mostly anti-Thaksin and anti- Prah Veahar give away.

Kasit was never a PAD spokesman, nor any form of representative of PAD

[jcbangkok]

If they [the UDD] continue in their unlawful terrorist actions they will leave the military and government no other choice but to act. So if Abhisit and Anupong are stalling then more power to them. But the time is running out for all parties. Tick tock, tick tock....

I'm trying to think of one major crime that has not already been committed by the UDD

- murder of Army personnel (April 10)

- intimidation of the public

- armed insurrection by commandeering police and army equipment, including weapons

- killing of citizens (BTS Sala Daeng)l

- kidnapping (EC commissioner, police at the SC Hotel fiasco)

- usurping the power of the state (stopping and searching motorists and pedestrians, preventing the police and military from carrying out their duties)

- impeding people and businesses from going about their lawful rights (such as closing down Central Chitlom, and BTS today)

- erecting barricades in public places

Given this list, I'm wondering what ELSE has to happen before the military 'have no choice'??? Haven't we already gone LONG past that point, and don't the reds already know it. Abhisit and Anupong are living in a dream world in the 11th Army Regiment barracks, hoping that if they just keep singing 'la-la-lala-la' with their eyes closed for long enough the reds will go away. It's not going to happen. The reds are going to keep provoking until they either run the country de facto by taking over the duties of the security forces or the PAD and other citizens start fighting them in the streets.

The government has already fallen. What remains to be seen is who will fill the power vacuum?

I wish I didn't but I agree with this posting!

The missed

Endangering children

Impeding fair use of the public airwaves

Assault of pedestrians and drives on the public ways

Unlicensed Porta-Potties

Unlawful construction

Bomb making

And likely Frotage On A Public Conveyance

Unlicensed Porta-Potties .... LMAO

[animatic]

Aside from its being a classic run-on sentence......"there are some who is prevented from eating money" particularly catches my eye.

After a money meal do you need a toothpick?

Does change come out the other end?

That would be dirty money.

[elcent]

YES

Kasit was never a PAD spokesman.

He never was a PAD organizer.

Nor a PAD decision maker of any sort.

He did make a few speaches from PAD statges,

but not as a PAD member, strictly as a guest speaker.

Mostly anti-Thaksin and anti- Prah Veahar give away.

Kasit was never a PAD spokesman, nor any form of representative of PAD

But he did say "WE" and not "I" had a lot of fun though.

[jcbangkok]

I wish him the best of luck, but frankly, it sounds like he is stalling for time against pressure from both PAD and the red insurgents.

Stall for time he must. I still think a forceful dispersal at this point would incense red shirt supporters throughout the nation. Sincere and honest negotiations are the only reasonable way forward. It is now up to the red shirt leaders to realize this basic fact. If they continue in their unlawful terrorist actions they will leave the military and government no other choice but to act. So if Abhisit and Anupong are stalling then more power to them. But the time is running out for all parties. Tick tock, tick tock....

There must be negotiations and nothing else, any substandial force used by police/army to disperse the 'Red's' from their spot in BKK will of course be successful, but it will not solve the political problem at all, on the contrary, the same kind of street protests will then be carried right across the country, and this is bound to result into street confrontations with the 'Yellow's, and since army and police are divided on this matter, it could bring Thailand to the brink of civil war, talks are essential.

If illegal mobs and terrorist actions are continued to be rewarded then nothing will change. Severe consequences need to be implemented against terrorists and those continuing to participate in violent illegal actions after numerous days & week of warnings. Amnesty cannot be part of the plan and regardless of how legit a group's goal might be, Thais need to understand they will have no voice if they advocate violence and infringe so radically on other people's the rights.

18 coups in 77 years (almost one for every elections period). Elections are clearly not the answer. Education and understanding that in a democracy you don't always get your way and that there is legal means and channels available for change and to be heard but that terrorism, violence and blatant law breaking will only result in losing your freedoms .., at the very least. Be it red, yellow or anybody else; these things must be understood.

Edited April 27, 2010 by jcbangkok

[SiriusBlack1]

Abhisit just has to swallow his pride and make way for elections.

Simple as that.

Yes, and in a timely manner.

Everyone wants to be in a position to name the next general when Anupong retires, as he is mandated to do in September.

So Abhisit wants elections in December, after securing his choice of general. Of course, the red shirts want the election sooner.

Summer elections with international observers would be the best approach.

[jcbangkok]

Abhisit just has to swallow his pride and make way for elections.

Simple as that.

Yes, and in a timely manner.

Everyone wants to be in a position to name the next general when Anupong retires, as he is mandated to do in September.

So Abhisit wants elections in December, after securing his choice of general. Of course, the red shirts want the election sooner.

Summer elections with international observers would be the best approach.

Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee ... this has nothing to do with the reasons why elections are not being held immediately instead of their scheduled time frame at the end of 2011.

[markt7081]

How to end the problem.

1. 
   <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>Issue anyone who wants to participate with paint ball guns. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>Give red paint balls to the red shirts, so they can shoot the yellow shirts, the army, the coloured shirts & the non coloured shirts. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>Give yellow paint balls to the yellow shirts, so they can shoot the red shirts, the army, the coloured shirts & the non coloured shirts. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>Give green paintballs to the army commanders, so they can shoot the red shirts, the ordinary soldiers, the coloured shirts & the non coloured shirts. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>Give the ordinary soldiers a choice of green or red paint balls, so they can either shoot the redshirts, or their own commanders. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>Give the non coloured & the coloured shirts any colour paint balls they want, so they can shoot anyone they want & help end the game quickly. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>No paintballs are to be issued to the police, as it is anticipated they will run away just before the game starts. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>No need to give the government any paintballs, as they have already shot themselves in the foot many times & are out of the game before it starts. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>All other citizens of Thailand are to be issued with water balls, so that after the game, they can shoot all the "dead people" and clean off the paint, whilst pretending its Songkran at the same time. <LI class=ecxMsoNormal>Any persons telephoning from overseas are barred from playing.
   
2. Any Farangs are designated as the umpires, however they may also be shot at any time, by any of the above parties.
   

The rules are simple

Anyone hit by any colour paint ball must lie down & is out of the game.

At anytime, any person not yet hit may change sides, subject to the correct tea money being applied.

The last person with out a paint mark is declared the winner & may choose which ever party he wishes to govern the country.

The last persons choice of party is subject to him/her being able to change their mind by the application of tea money. The afore mentioned tea money can either be in Thai baht or Cambodian reils.

[brahmburgers]

The people of Isaan, poor farmer, even rich red shirts already have representation. Abhisit is about the only decent prime minister they've had since before Thaksin. Its not like a new election is gonna make every red shirt instantly hit the jackpot or suddenly get huge checks in the mail if thats what they expect.

The Issanites who color themselves red, think a new election will surely bring in their people, and eventually bring back Thaksin. They also believe that Thaksin's return will bring lots more money for them. Thaksin has already proved that he's happy to spread money around to people who support him.

However, it's less likely, day by day that Issanites will vote as a block, even if promises of money (during and after the election) are rife. Plus, though Issan has a large population, it's still a segment of the overall Thai population, who will also vote.

One things for sure, regardless of what party wins, there will be future demonstrations (as there's always a losing/vengeful side) and they will probably be as messy or worse than the current one. Reason: because mob rule is becoming a Thai tradition. It will become additionally indelible if the Reds are successful in forcing the current gov't to acquiesce to their demands. First the Yellows, then the Reds, ....now the cycle of is set in motion. Get ready for messy demonstrations, back & forth, for a long time in Thailand.

[landofthefree]

Maybe he,s killing time before the army takes action again, speical ops takes planning

I've just worked out Abhisits strategy he's 1/waiting for the rainy season to start as he knows how Thais hate being in the rain and then maybe the problem will go away.....maybe......2/ If Number 1 doesnt work bury his head in the sand again .

Another great political strategy by Oxford boy!

[ozzieman05]

I offer only one (1) political solution to this crisis as follows;

The PM could instigate elections but only if 'international observers' are present to 'report on' the electoral process.

For those who are interested in a democratic Thailand, try these links:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca...gPmBMj6Phjy3Gdw

or the pdf here:

http://www.accessdemocracy.org/files/1923_...tion_102705.pdf

I previously mentioned to some Thai friends that the only way things would start to 'clear up' in Thailand was that if elections were monitored by an international body. The replies I got were something like, "The problems in Thailand can only be & must only be solved by Thais."

Egotistical pride seems to prevent one from putting up ones hand & asking, "I/we have a problem. Can you please help?"

It's very much like a Thai classroom where nobody is allowed to ask questions as this may cause a 'loss of face' to either the student or the teacher.

In summary, Thailand needs to 'eat some humble pie' & ask for outside help. Silly pride will be the downfall of this country.

Your so correct

But do not hold your breath it is not going to happen

Thai love Thai

Farang not welcome

[elcent]

Maybe he,s killing time before the army takes action again, speical ops takes planning

I've just worked out Abhisits strategy he's 1/waiting for the rainy season to start as he knows how Thais hate being in the rain and then maybe the problem will go away.....maybe......2/ If Number 1 doesnt work bury his head in the sand again .

Another great political strategy by Oxford boy!

He waited before and after the coup, did nothing than wait, no critics at the yellow cake, wait, wait and wait and he continues this until today and tomorrow and forever more.

[landofthefree]

I offer only one (1) political solution to this crisis as follows;

The PM could instigate elections but only if 'international observers' are present to 'report on' the electoral process.

For those who are interested in a democratic Thailand, try these links:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca...gPmBMj6Phjy3Gdw

or the pdf here:

http://www.accessdemocracy.org/files/1923_...tion_102705.pdf

I previously mentioned to some Thai friends that the only way things would start to 'clear up' in Thailand was that if elections were monitored by an international body. The replies I got were something like, "The problems in Thailand can only be & must only be solved by Thais."

Egotistical pride seems to prevent one from putting up ones hand & asking, "I/we have a problem. Can you please help?"

It's very much like a Thai classroom where nobody is allowed to ask questions as this may cause a 'loss of face' to either the student or the teacher.

In summary, Thailand needs to 'eat some humble pie' & ask for outside help. Silly pride will be the downfall of this country.

Your so correct

But do not hold your breath it is not going to happen

Thai love Thai

Farang not welcome

Not true I went to Nana entertainment complex the other day and was made to feel welcome by everybody some even shouted out Welcome!

[whybother]

Unfortunately there is only two ways out of this. Cave in and set up elections within 3-4 months, or man up and disperse the reds. If the Reds won't negociate then there simply is no middle ground.

As for "Rule of Law" the Reds have proved over and over what a big joke that was. At least nobody can throw accusations of double standards: the law simply doesn't apply to anybody anymore.

It wouldn't be 'caving in' but a reasonable response by an un-mandated government - should have been done 3 weeks ago - go to the country and seek assurance that the people AGREE with what the government are doing - but they won't do that will they and (drum roll) because... tut tut tut taaa! they may lose - so what's another way? ermmmm????? stall, stall, stall - maybe that'll work huh?

Maybe if the PTP had dissolved parliament when Abhisit suggested it, we would have found out then.

Since the PTP didn't do as suggested, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[ozzieman05]

Unfortunately there is only two ways out of this. Cave in and set up elections within 3-4 months, or man up and disperse the reds. If the Reds won't negociate then there simply is no middle ground.

As for "Rule of Law" the Reds have proved over and over what a big joke that was. At least nobody can throw accusations of double standards: the law simply doesn't apply to anybody anymore.

It wouldn't be 'caving in' but a reasonable response by an un-mandated government - should have been done 3 weeks ago - go to the country and seek assurance that the people AGREE with what the government are doing - but they won't do that will they and (drum roll) because... tut tut tut taaa! they may lose - so what's another way? ermmmm????? stall, stall, stall - maybe that'll work huh?

My wife friends and family live in Udon, and they think the reds are idiots

Wife has many friends from Uni all live in Issan all think the reds are idiots

Wifes village in Issan is hurting badly as there bangkok money has been cut off

Law has no value in Thailand so everyone start to take the law into their own hands, this is causing mass problems in Issan

maybe you should stop talking to the red shirts and start talking to the people

If the PM can manage to bring peace back to Thailand he will will the next election with a land slide

People are interested in their lives and the ability to live them

Red shirts thank you for finally bring some basic education to Issan, showing what Mob rule is not what the Red leaders have tried to hard to convince you

[Old Man River]

Maybe he,s killing time before the army takes action again, speical ops takes planning

I've just worked out Abhisits strategy he's 1/waiting for the rainy season to start as he knows how Thais hate being in the rain and then maybe the problem will go away.....maybe......2/ If Number 1 doesnt work bury his head in the sand again .

Another great political strategy by Oxford boy!

Whatever his strategy is, it looks like there is a bunch of guys waiting in the shadows that have a different strategy and they have power and followers. They don't wear red.