Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[deadsnoopy]

bloodbath, mark this post

drama queen, mark this one

[deadsnoopy]

When I first met my Thai wife 6 years ago she thought Thaskin was god

you're kidding. i believe that your wife has more class than thaksin but she didn't just know it; that thaksin was a former police son of rich politician from chiang mai, married a daughter of a rich general, made his fortune through his connections in the police with his computer business, have got the monopoly of satellite concession and then AIS, after 20 or more years he is a billionaire.

i don't think gods are like this.

Nope. God creates worlds, then creates a human population and watches while they fight each other to death. Or he might not even be watching, since (at least according to the Bible), God created man in His own image. So God probably already extinguished himself along with his kind as well. Too bad, we're stuck resolving this mess ourselves.

[jcbangkok]

I have been watching this closely and todays outcome is disasterous

blood will flow

Did I miss something?

you think the govt is going to let the red shirts continue to trash Bangkok til the elections? And the trsshing would greatly

increase close to the elections. The other problem is yellow shirts DO NOT want new elections, another ticking time bomb...

If today the red shirts packed up and went home to wait for the elections i would feel so good. Now i am going into the coffin

making business....

I'm sure they will. It's all a matter of Abhisit confirming the date with the Election Commission. What he's done so far is publicly announced a date under the condition that "IF" his goals are met. That's not good enough, as he could fail in meeting his goals (ie. completing the investigations, passing bills, army reshuffle, etc). If he doesn't meet his goals, there's no guarantee of an election. So what the red shirts want is basically Abhisit to finalize the date when the election will be held, then they will go home.

It's like if you went to purchase a car. You're telling the car dealer that you will buy the car, but you haven't signed the contract yet and neither have you paid the car yet. He's not going to give you the keys until you've signed and paid.

He laid out a road map for the country and these goals need to be met in order to have elections. There are all obtainable and he made clear if the reds continue their campaign of terror and lawlessness that the date likely would not be met. This road map is NOT about making the red mob happy.

The red mob has nothing to bargain with and are done. The few who will be left in the coming days will be dealt with by the authorities and the PM now has the support to get the job done while giving non-hardcore lawbreakers a final ticket out.

[SoiGirlHunter]

When I first met my Thai wife 6 years ago she thought Thaskin was god

you're kidding. i believe that your wife has more class than thaksin but she didn't just know it; that thaksin was a former police son of rich politician from chiang mai, married a daughter of a rich general, made his fortune through his connections in the police with his computer business, have got the monopoly of satellite concession and then AIS, after 20 or more years he is a billionaire.

i don't think gods are like this.

I have calmly tried to explain this to 20 or so red shirts who are my friends - even close friends, i have not heard a word from any of them since...

[deadsnoopy]

He laid out a road map for the country and these goals need to be met in order to have elections. There are all obtainable and he made clear if the reds continue their campaign of terror and lawlessness that the date likely would not be met. This road map is NOT about making the red mob happy.

The red mob has nothing to bargain with and are done. The few who will be left in the coming days will be dealt with by the authorities and the PM now has the support to get the job done while giving non-hardcore lawbreakers a final ticket out.

If they have nothing to bargain with, why is Abhisit shortening his term by 1 year then?

[jcbangkok]

A final thought ... anyone notice that the red leaders didn't take amnesty off the table but simply said they would not allow amnesty for terrorists and charges against the monarchy. I think anyone who believes they are not scrambling to try to make a deal (that will never happen) for amnesty is being naive. There response to the PM was a last attempt to show how unreasonable they will be if they don't get their way but they and everyone else knows they are through and have lost support. But this certainly isn't going to stop them from trying to use their pawns more for their own personal gain.

[SoiGirlHunter]

bloodbath, mark this post

drama queen, mark this one

Its marked, lets see who is right

[SoiGirlHunter]

bloodbath, mark this post

drama queen, mark this one

Its marked, lets see who is right

[jcbangkok]

He laid out a road map for the country and these goals need to be met in order to have elections. There are all obtainable and he made clear if the reds continue their campaign of terror and lawlessness that the date likely would not be met. This road map is NOT about making the red mob happy.

The red mob has nothing to bargain with and are done. The few who will be left in the coming days will be dealt with by the authorities and the PM now has the support to get the job done while giving non-hardcore lawbreakers a final ticket out.

If they have nothing to bargain with, why is Abhisit shortening his term by 1 year then?

You mean why is he offering the same thing he did before all the bloodshed? Why is he offering basically the same time frame he did when he sat down to negotiate with the three stooges who walked away from the table?

Because as he said then and as he said now, it is not about what the reds want but what the country wants and needs.

No doubt, the reds pushed this issue out of the closet where it probably would have remained and the PM would have taken different steps to bring the country together but it was not their lawlessness that brought this about but simply there getting together and being heard. Every group, as Abhisit has said, is welcome to protest peacefully and within the law. Again, Abhisit didn't offer anything new to appease the reds and in fact, this new offer clearly is going to harm the red leaders because of their actions since he first offered this as his FIRST offer to them in what was supposed to be a negotiation back before all the deaths and injuries to people and the economy.

The red mob has now lost its ability to be heard and have nothing left to bargain with unless the turn more towards terrorism which of course will play great into the PM;s hands.

[TheOldWolf]

He laid out a road map for the country and these goals need to be met in order to have elections. There are all obtainable and he made clear if the reds continue their campaign of terror and lawlessness that the date likely would not be met. This road map is NOT about making the red mob happy.

The red mob has nothing to bargain with and are done. The few who will be left in the coming days will be dealt with by the authorities and the PM now has the support to get the job done while giving non-hardcore lawbreakers a final ticket out.

If they have nothing to bargain with, why is Abhisit shortening his term by 1 year then?

For tactical reasons. By this he has turned the opinion his way, both domastic and international. He his a very cleaver man. I have thought he was finsished several times. Same at last songkran, but he seems come out of it as a winner.

[deadsnoopy]

You mean why is he offering the same thing he did before all the bloodshed?

Before the red shirts took to the streets, he did not even offer to shorten his term. He was high up there claiming he had been legitimately elected and that he would finish his term until 2011 and then call for fresh elections. And it is not the same thing as he offered before the April 10 bloodshed. He had offered 9 months to dissolve parliament, which means 11 months for new elections. Basically that meant new elections by March 2011. Now we have a potential House dissolution by September 2010, with a new election hopefully by November 2010. That's 4 months less.

Edited May 4, 2010 by deadsnoopy

[jcbangkok]

bloodbath, mark this post

drama queen, mark this one

Its marked, lets see who is right

Although I don't agree with the way you are saying this ... seems like you may be wanting this. I have to agree with you that this is what is going to happen if the last of the hardcore members of the red mob don't clear out. My guess is that it will be before Monday and done over the weekend some time. I figure Thursday or Friday will be the day they use various means to communicate the need for them to vacate and then the law will be enforced at some point over the weekend. And if this does happen it will be a blood bath. As we know now without any doubt, the reds are armed with military type weapons while others have hand guns and others have sharpened spears and large rocks, homemade bombs and so on...

What they don't get is that they would be better off fighting with just their hands and feet. Because no matter what way you slice it, the minute they use deadly force against authorities trying to uphold the law then the the authorities will use deadly force. And no matter what way you slice this, the authorities are more trained, have more firepower and now have larger numbers.

So, I agree. It will be a blood bath that the red mob has seemed determined to create for quite a while now. Again, I just don't agree with wishing this to happen if in fact that is what you are saying. If you are not saying that, I would suggestion adding a couple words to preface you are not advocating a bloodbath.

[ozzieman05]

I have lived in thailand my whole life and i also support the violence.

You support violence?

Problem is if e is Thai he has the right

Farang have no rights in Thailand

[jcbangkok]

You mean why is he offering the same thing he did before all the bloodshed?

Before the red shirts took to the streets, he did not even offer to shorten his term. He was high up there claiming he had been legitimately elected and that he would finish his term until 2011 and then call for fresh elections.

Some constructive criticism .. You really should stop editing and taking people's quotes out of context. It really makes you look very foolish, desperate and dishonest. Especially in a case like this where you have edited my post to pretend I didn't already address exactly what you are saying.

[deadsnoopy]

You mean why is he offering the same thing he did before all the bloodshed?

Before the red shirts took to the streets, he did not even offer to shorten his term. He was high up there claiming he had been legitimately elected and that he would finish his term until 2011 and then call for fresh elections.

Some constructive criticism .. You really should stop editing and taking people's quotes out of context. It really makes you look very foolish, desperate and dishonest. Especially in a case like this where you have edited my post to pretend I didn't already address exactly what you are saying.

Did you just do the same thing you're telling me not to do?

[wagoosh]

He laid out a road map for the country and these goals need to be met in order to have elections. There are all obtainable and he made clear if the reds continue their campaign of terror and lawlessness that the date likely would not be met. This road map is NOT about making the red mob happy.

The red mob has nothing to bargain with and are done. The few who will be left in the coming days will be dealt with by the authorities and the PM now has the support to get the job done while giving non-hardcore lawbreakers a final ticket out.

If they have nothing to bargain with, why is Abhisit shortening his term by 1 year then?

For tactical reasons. By this he has turned the opinion his way, both domastic and international. He his a very cleaver man. I have thought he was finsished several times. Same at last songkran, but he seems come out of it as a winner.

Agreed, he proved to be a real responsible leader, deathes were caused not by him, but were triggered by some Red huligans' most of the red demonstrators are simple people, but other small and aggressive groups used them for their agenda and liked the idea to be in a mixed crowd.

The PM proved that patience and thinking can beat warm blood and bully's, and thats what is expected from a leader, not be mistakes and tragedy's free, but to do things responsibly and think about the greater good, unfotunatlly most things have price some time human price.

I am not Yellow and not Red but i think i am part of the silente majority that just wants a goverment to stay for some time and WORK, so lets go to NOV14 and let the winnig coalition(Yes a coalition goverment may be set up again because that is DEMOCRACY) to govern,run and move forward this country!!!!!!!

P.S

one thing for sure the Isaan people and the rest will not be ignored by no one anymore, and dont forget thhat Abhisit is only there for a year while their problems where there since ever.

[jcbangkok]

You mean why is he offering the same thing he did before all the bloodshed?

Before the red shirts took to the streets, he did not even offer to shorten his term. He was high up there claiming he had been legitimately elected and that he would finish his term until 2011 and then call for fresh elections. And it is not the same thing as he offered before the April 10 bloodshed. He had offered 9 months to dissolve parliament, which means 11 months for new elections. Basically that meant new elections by March 2011. Now we have a potential House dissolution by September 2010, with a new election hopefully by November 2010. That's 4 months less.

To respond to your edits ....

He offered elections by the end of the year .. 1 year early.

You now need to go back on ignore. Have you noticed the number of folks here who have asked how to use the ignore feature in responses to your posts? Does this not give you any indication that it is not every one else and not you who may have a problem?

I really mean this constructively because I like people with passion in their beliefs but you often seem to post without any real thought in mind except arguing to prove you are right at any cost including ignoring facts and manipulating other's posts.

Hint:

If somebody says you look like a horse, ignore them.

If a second person tells you look like a horse then you may want to think more about this.

If a third person tells you that you look like a horse ... then buy a saddle.

[deadsnoopy]

one thing for sure the Isaan people and the rest will not be ignored by no one anymore

That part I would disagree with. It's going to be a long time until the "Isaan people" (aka. Thailand's poor majority) aren't going to be ignored anymore. They will always be promised gold and jewels before the election, but after the election all they will get is coal and dirt, so to speak. Let's hope I'm wrong, though.

[ozzieman05]

I have lived in thailand my whole life and i also support the violence.

So you support violence if it's for your purpose, but you're against violence if it's for someone else's purpose? That's just silly. You're a mini-Dictator, aren't you.

In the old testement of the Bible

God led his people in many violent times

An eye for and eye was the feeling of the day

In your eyes he must have been a mini-Dictator

In Australia if you resist arrest they can use force to apprehend you

so the police in Australia are mini-Dictators

IN Thailand Thai's are allowed to have their own opinion

Just like a red shirt seems to have the right to be violent again others on the streets of Bkk

[jcbangkok]

You mean why is he offering the same thing he did before all the bloodshed?

Before the red shirts took to the streets, he did not even offer to shorten his term. He was high up there claiming he had been legitimately elected and that he would finish his term until 2011 and then call for fresh elections.

Some constructive criticism .. You really should stop editing and taking people's quotes out of context. It really makes you look very foolish, desperate and dishonest. Especially in a case like this where you have edited my post to pretend I didn't already address exactly what you are saying.

Did you just do the same thing you're telling me not to do?

Wow, I saw this before I put you on ignore but will say this is a very low accusation is something you know is downright dishonest and is easily proven so by simply looking at the fact you edited your post (see the stamp on your post) while I was responding.

[deadsnoopy]

To respond to your edits ....

He offered elections by the end of the year .. 1 year early.

You now need to go back on ignore. Have you noticed the number of folks here who have asked how to use the ignore feature in responses to your posts? Does this not give you any indication that it is not every one else and not you who may have a problem?

I really mean this constructively because I like people with passion in their beliefs but you often seem to post without any real thought in mind except arguing to prove you are right at any cost including ignoring facts and manipulating other's posts.

Hint:

If somebody says you look like a horse, ignore them.

If a second person tells you look like a horse then you may want to think more about this.

If a third person tells you that you look like a horse ... then buy a saddle.

I'm sorry, but you're simply not correct. Abhisit has continuously said "9 months" before the April 10 bloodshed. And a house dissolution in 9 months doesn't mean an election in 9 months. It means an election in 11 months. Every newspaper has it in their archives. Here's a quick link, you can also look it up at other major newspapers, some of which cannot be mentioned here:

http://www.kohchangnews.com/index.php/home...e-best-solution

BANGKOK, 29 March 2010 (NNT) – Prime Minister said that the House dissolution within nine months was the best offer to be considered by the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD).

Note the date. March 29th. Only 11 days before the April 10 bloodshed.

Edited May 4, 2010 by deadsnoopy

[wagoosh]

one thing for sure the Isaan people and the rest will not be ignored by no one anymore

That part I would disagree with. It's going to be a long time until the "Isaan people" (aka. Thailand's poor majority) aren't going to be ignored anymore. They will always be promised gold and jewels before the election, but after the election all they will get is coal and dirt, so to speak. Let's hope I'm wrong, though.

I do agree with you that things will not change tomorrow, and the votes buying thing is made by their leaders dont forget, from the small headsmen to the states man like Isaan Polititians-they have the infulance there, not the Bangkok Elite, the difference is that till Taksin most of them didnt vote, atleast in the general election.After taksin, they all vote and many of them listen to local leaders and are selling their votes-not so democratic, but not their fault.The amazing thing is the cost of their vote-AKA Basic Democratic right.

I think with time and we can see it now-I admit it start at taksin days, but it was done in a Taksin way-Again not so democratic.

Once the next goverments and the private sector will develop(allready are) the provinces and the social and human sttrengh there and communities, infrastructur and mainly education and higher income and standart of life then they will not be that cheap to buy on the election day, offcourse it takes time tough, but no goverment can ignore the Majority of Thailnd anymore, which is not in Bangkok

[deadsnoopy]

Here is even an article called "Why 9 months?" from CAPO, the Thai government website:

http://www.capothai.org/capothai/why-9-months , dated March 30, 2010.

9 months house dissolution from April 1st would have meant House dissolution by January 2011 and new elections by March 2011. Not new elections by the end of the year as you're claiming.

Can you stop calling me a lair now, please?

[Siam Simon]

You mean why is he offering the same thing he did before all the bloodshed?

Before the red shirts took to the streets, he did not even offer to shorten his term. He was high up there claiming he had been legitimately elected and that he would finish his term until 2011 and then call for fresh elections. And it is not the same thing as he offered before the April 10 bloodshed. He had offered 9 months to dissolve parliament, which means 11 months for new elections. Basically that meant new elections by March 2011. Now we have a potential House dissolution by September 2010, with a new election hopefully by November 2010. That's 4 months less.

To respond to your edits ....

He offered elections by the end of the year .. 1 year early.

You now need to go back on ignore. Have you noticed the number of folks here who have asked how to use the ignore feature in responses to your posts? Does this not give you any indication that it is not every one else and not you who may have a problem?

I really mean this constructively because I like people with passion in their beliefs but you often seem to post without any real thought in mind except arguing to prove you are right at any cost including ignoring facts and manipulating other's posts.

Hint:

If somebody says you look like a horse, ignore them.

If a second person tells you look like a horse then you may want to think more about this.

If a third person tells you that you look like a horse ... then buy a saddle.

Nearly 500 posts only about politics in less than three weeks.....hmmm. It's easy to play this game, no?

[ozzieman05]

When I first met my Thai wife 6 years ago she thought Thaskin was god

you're kidding. i believe that your wife has more class than thaksin but she didn't just know it; that thaksin was a former police son of rich politician from chiang mai, married a daughter of a rich general, made his fortune through his connections in the police with his computer business, have got the monopoly of satellite concession and then AIS, after 20 or more years he is a billionaire.

i don't think gods are like this.

Duhhhhhh

Figure of speach

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Here is even an article called "Why 9 months?" from CAPO, the Thai government website:

http://www.capothai.org/capothai/why-9-months , dated March 30, 2010.

9 months house dissolution from April 1st would have meant House dissolution by January 2011 and new elections by March 2011. Not new elections by the end of the year as you're claiming.

Can you stop calling me a lair now, please?

An apology from JC would be nice as well. It was nothing but a flame, while you tried to have a reasoned discussion. (I don't agree with you on all points, but I recognize a reasoned point of view when I see one. )

Edited May 4, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[deadsnoopy]

Here is even an article called "Why 9 months?" from CAPO, the Thai government website:

http://www.capothai.org/capothai/why-9-months , dated March 30, 2010.

9 months house dissolution from April 1st would have meant House dissolution by January 2011 and new elections by March 2011. Not new elections by the end of the year as you're claiming.

Can you stop calling me a lair now, please?

An apology from JC would be nice as well. It was nothing but a flame, while you tried to have a reasoned discussion. (I don't agree with you on all points, but I recognize a reasoned point of view when I see one. )

I doubt I will get an apology from him, and I'm not really looking for one. He's all quiet now claiming he's got me on ignore. So that's an excuse I'm not asking people to agree with me. We're all entitled to our own opinions, but I do like to defend my point if I believe that I have one. And this one is quite clear.

[LuckyFive8888]

one thing for sure the Isaan people and the rest will not be ignored by no one anymore

That part I would disagree with. It's going to be a long time until the "Isaan people" (aka. Thailand's poor majority) aren't going to be ignored anymore. They will always be promised gold and jewels before the election, but after the election all they will get is coal and dirt, so to speak. Let's hope I'm wrong, though.

why do people always think that issan is being ignored and that bangkok and being taken care of? the gap between issan or N/NE part of thailand is getting smaller not wider. if you think of the 1960's when there was nothing there, i.e., roads, electricity, etc. the gap was even wider than it is now. i think the government(s) had done a very good job developing that part of thailand so now when you go to udonthani, korat, khonkaen, the cities are very develop not even comparable to the capital of laos. not to mentioned all other small cities/towns like loei, sakhon nakhon, mukdahan, nongkhai, nakhon phanom, ubon, etc.

but still, one guy have managed to widen the gap between the issan people and central thailand eventhough not by the current situation but by digging up the old billet where issan people were 40 years ago.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Here's something else that's interesting; the UDD Facebook page was recently censored. Note that this only contains almost sugar-coated posts that are also very much intentioned for an international audience and international news media. Absolutly no hate whatsoever. Yet it was censored.

meanwhile, very nice Facebook pages such as this one remain available: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=81313992104

I think the government speaks with multiple tongues. Hard to trust them to be honest.

[jcbangkok]

Red-shirt leaders demand PM to specify House dissolution date

The red-shirt leaders Tuesday demanded that the prime minister announce a specific day for House dissolution before they will join the government's roadmap for political resolution.

They announced that the prime minister had no authority to set the election date on November 14 as the power belongs to the Election Commission.

They demanded that the government must show its sincerity towards political reconciliation by halting all kinds of intimidation towards the red-shirt protesters.

-- The Nation 2010-05-04

I think we can close this thread until further notice. MYbe I am dumb, but why must there be a house dissolution before the the election.

BBC are reporting that the reds are unconcerned by the date of election, they want to know when the house will be dissolved

this is still in line with their previous demands, so nothings really changed

they want Abhisit to dissolve the house quickly, so that he cannot pass the 2011 budget, and more importantly so he cannot amend the constitution to keep Thaksin and his cronies out and so that he can oversee the military reshuffle to see Anapong retire, and install Thaksin hater General Prayuth who will be the hard man that will bring the Army back on track

the reds know that if Abhisit can achieve these items on his personal road map then the red cause will be all but over bar the shouting

he can dissolve parliament almost when he chooses to

Gordon Brown dissolved the UK parliament on April 6th 2010 and the elections are the day after tomorrow

so a month is feasable and would be good news for Abhisit

get everything passed, in the meantime get the red shirt leaders, their associates and the Phua Thai Mp's charged with terrorism, lesse majeste, treason and murder

get the Phua Thai party dissolved for treason,

Thaksin will be proven to be a murderous, traiterous conspirator

there will be more trials here than there were in Salem

Abhisit will romp home with Korn as deputy in the biggest landslide this country has ever seen

This is the post Ive been waiting for, thank you. Well met sir.

I have a feeling that the PM may do something similar in terms of avoiding a having a 45 day period under dissolution. However, from what I have read the EC says it has to be at least 45 days before elections and not more than 60. My guess is that all interested parties will be able to come up with a way to avoid this period for the betterment of Thailand ... not to mention it will show Thailand that violence and illegal protests are not going to achieve anything. Maybe I am reading too much into this but as far as I could tell the PM never spoke of house dissolution in his speech, and still has not, and only spoke of elections. Beyond any possible current rules on the book, there really is no reason for house dissolution to be more than a day and many reasons why it should not be more than a day.