Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[jcbangkok]

Wow, there are just too many questions coming from an angle of only knowing US politics. I don't want to make you the answer man here but some things I wonder ... Assuming the PM still remains in power under house dissolution does this mean he has absolute power to pass bills and such or is he also out and if so, who runs the show. And why the heck would there be a minimum time before elections .. in other words why have a 45-day period that is required before elections resulting in leaving the country without a house of reps for 6-weeks plus whatever time needs to be lapsed before those elected take office? My guess is this is to allow them and others time to campaign.

But, I guess the only real question (not just wondering out loud) is if it would be possible, if everyone agreed, that there would be no house dissolution in these circumstances and simply to just have an election. I have to believe this is what the PM plans because the best I can tell is he made NO mention of dissolving The House. Clearly everyone who is on the side of Thailand have to believe this would be the best option. There is just no need for the government to try to function without a house of representatives for up to two months. The only people who seem to want this is the red leaders.

How does the US get involved in a discussion about the Thai constitution? No mention of the US was made until you brought it up (again).

Upon a dissolution the existing government operates as a caretaker government until the national election takes place. As a caretaker government, I am not sure it would have the same rights as an undissolved house would have. I am too lazy to look for it now, but perhaps you can dig it out first.

I think you are right that the interim period gives the EC time to set the election up and also gives the political parties time to campaign.

I cannot recall a national election taking place (these things are expensive) without some catalyst such as a party dissolution or house dissolution first taking place and I can't find in the constitution where it is covered. I guess that means a case can be made that it isn't prohibited, but also, post election, a case could be made that the election was illegal, meaning, it best to follow tradition and dissolve first.

Although very confused at your confusion of my comment about only having a grasp of how US elections works and the implications I am injecting US politics into this, I do appreciate your taking the time to respond. Understanding that they would be acting as a caretaker gov't helps me to understand things better. The words House Dissolution or dissolving the house had me believing there would be no house at all.

I still find it very interesting that the PM has not mentioned dissolution and only has talked about elections. The article mentioned in the other English paper actually didn't didn't have any quote from the PM and was a quote from an EC Rep. He did also quot the cost of the election and indicated the PM never talked to them about the election date prior to his announcement on TV .... didn't appear to be a problem in the least bit.

This not the US.

Why would you inject US politics inot the situation?

What for?

Where was US politics injected into the situation? Please cut and paste as I am not seeing it.

[SiriusBlack1]

According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Abhisit wants the election held after the appointment of Anupong's successor (Anupong resigns in September) as head of the military -- presumably to have some say in the appointment. Naturally the Reds want the same gig, which is why they want an election before September.

That means time is on Abhisit's side, since the longer he postpones the harder it is for the Reds to push for an early election. And many voters will not understand the significance, so they'll think calling the election was a good enough concession.

Well played. Abhisit might well have succeeded in hamstringing the next government, even if elections in the "Turkey of the East" are free and fair.

[noahvail]

The red shirts haven't harmed anyone by running around the hospital, though I agree with you that it was inappropriate and that it shouldn't have happened. If anyone got harmed during the move, you should put it on the bill of the hospital and its staff, since it was their decision to move the patients. The red shirts didn't harm any patients and neither did they ask them to be moved. But that's a discussion for another thread, not this one, so let's leave it at that and not go further off-topic.

Right - let's stay on topic, for it is topical.

Yes, it's a discussion for another thread, and that discussion has taken place on another thread already.

And your statement "The red shirts haven't harmed anyone by running around the hospital" is patently false and a lie. Remember, that is against forum policy, to deliberately lie - or will you say that you never saw that thread? Or if you did see that thread, you have a selective memory loss about it?

It has been shown that people were in fact harmed by the running around of men with sharpened bamboo sticks, guns, and shouting while looking for what must have been ghost soldiers, because they found none.

Do not attempt to blame the hospital. The administrator negotiated with the red shirt in charge to allow 5 red shirts in to search the hospital. Mere moments after those five with reporters in tow entered the hospital, red shirts in numbers reported to be over 100 scaled walls, went in through every entrance into the hospital, ran amuck... going into "clean rooms" for post-op patients where they needed to be kept in a completely sterile environment for four days. The red shirts took two hospital workers hostage and brought them back behind the main stage, where after interrogation the red shirts determined that those poor guys were in fact hospital employees engaged in construction - hardly fitting the description of Thai army soldiers.

Look at the photos - how could you have missed those?????? They were published in hundreds of newspapers and shown on countless TV stations around the world.

That one act, more than anything else, turned the tide of the international journalists against the red shirts, and of course the people who read or watched or listened to the accounts of the storming of Chula hospital turned away from the red shirts.

You are not stupid, DeadSnoopy - even though you are at times condescending in your tone toward other posters, and indeed, posters in general on ThaiVisa. What a pity that you haven't learned from the leaders of the red shirts that such a technique does not garner you support, but instead removes support from all but the most fanatic of followers.

[roamer]

Surely this is going to be the sticking point ?

"Two things seem to be in the way. The Democrats and the dominant Army faction won't risk an election until after the military reshuffle on October 1. The hardcore reds, and possibly Thaksin too, want the election before that key date. "

The Nation

A November election allows the government to purge the military of those suspected of being less than loyal to its cause. In that event even if they lose the election they have a military that wouldn't think twice about staging another coup to "protect" Thailand and maintain the status quo . Sure the red shirts can see that coming.

[SiriusBlack1]

Surely this is going to be the sticking point ?

"Two things seem to be in the way. The Democrats and the dominant Army faction won't risk an election until after the military reshuffle on October 1. The hardcore reds, and possibly Thaksin too, want the election before that key date. "

The Nation

A November election allows the government to purge the military of those suspected of being less than loyal to its cause. In that event even if they lose the election they have a military that wouldn't think twice about staging another coup to "protect" Thailand and maintain the status quo . Sure the red shirts can see that coming.

That's exactly it. That's why a November election, which looks so reasonable, is unacceptable to the Red Shirts.

[chadintheusa]

According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Abhisit wants the election held after the appointment of Anupong's successor (Anupong resigns in September) as head of the military -- presumably to have some say in the appointment. Naturally the Reds want the same gig, which is why they want an election before September.

That means time is on Abhisit's side, since the longer he postpones the harder it is for the Reds to push for an early election. And many voters will not understand the significance, so they'll think calling the election was a good enough concession.

Well played. Abhisit might well have succeeded in hamstringing the next government, even if elections in the "Turkey of the East" are free and fair.

It's easier to stay in power if the military is your friend in Thailand. That is one of the reasons the reds were pushing for immediate elections, to stack the military with pro red generals. I'm not sure in Anupong is really pro democrat but he as at the very least remained neutral, ineffective, but neutral. We've seen how hard it is to be PM when the Police and Army won't lift a finger to help you, it is even worse when they are plotting against you. Another loss for the Reds is that Thaksin's money has been transferred into the public purse already so with elections in six months he probably won't get it back. The reds were onstage tonight spouting their regular hate speeches against the PM, so it's hard to imagine that they can behave long enough for the roadmap to reach the end.

[bubblegum]

And grow up, he said the 14th and said it to the entire world based on a measurable road map. Do the reds need to know the time of day or are they just hel_l bent on trying to hurt Abhisit because of the popularity he has gained while in power by demanding the EC decide on the date?

What do you not understand? Seriously. The Prime Minister can not set the date for the new election. He can only set the date for House dissolution. It's the Election Commission (EC) that then decides the date for the next election. So Abhisit saying that elections will be held on November 14th is meaningless, because he's not the one that will decide it.

Understand it now?

Could somebody tell me how to IGNORE deadsnoopy ? I'm tired of HIS misonderstanding of the whole situation!

Thnx

[SiriusBlack1]

It's easier to stay in power if the military is your friend in Thailand.

Quite so, ... a fact that changes the meaning of the phrase "in power" considerably.

[noahvail]

The Constitution Court has already accepted the case, as of April 28th. Google "Court to consider Democrat case". I can't post the link here because TheNation prohibits linking to the other popular newspaper in Bangkok. But it's the 1st result on Google.

Good lord, caught in another lie. Search ThaiVisa.com. George has already posted the exact reasons why links are not permitted to some sites.

I do so wish you'd get your facts straight, sometimes.... just sometimes....

I wonder who's gonna burn out first - DeadSnoopy, or 100,000 other posters?

Edited to add: when you make libelous statements as you have here, you not only open yourself to a lawsuit but also open ThaiVisa.com to such a suit. You're using the ThaiVisa.com forums very well - why are you, who know so much about the law in Thailand, putting this excellent resource at risk?

Edited May 4, 2010 by noahvail

[Neurath]

Surely this is going to be the sticking point ?

"Two things seem to be in the way. The Democrats and the dominant Army faction won't risk an election until after the military reshuffle on October 1. The hardcore reds, and possibly Thaksin too, want the election before that key date. "

The Nation

A November election allows the government to purge the military of those suspected of being less than loyal to its cause. In that event even if they lose the election they have a military that wouldn't think twice about staging another coup to "protect" Thailand and maintain the status quo . Sure the red shirts can see that coming.

That's exactly it. That's why a November election, which looks so reasonable, is unacceptable to the Red Shirts.

Fine, they win a scheduled election and put their own person(s) in. Not that difficult from what I hear.

Seems that what's being said now is that the recent political turmoil isn't primarily about elections or broadly construed democratic rights but about the September reshuffles of the bureaucracy and military. Since they happen once a year, a rather paltry excuse for which to go to the barricades and from which death.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Neurath

[SiriusBlack1]

Fine, they win a scheduled election and put their own person(s) in. Not that difficult from what I hear.

Seems that what's being said now is that the recent political turmoil isn't primarily about elections or broadly construed democratic rights but about the September reshuffles of the bureaucracy and military. Since they happen once a year, a rather paltry excuse for which to go to the barricades and from which death.

Well, I don't think it's every year that the head of the military retires due to reaching mandatory retirement age. And a year in office without the support of the gorilla in the room can seem like a loooooooong time.

[gregb]

According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Abhisit wants the election held after the appointment of Anupong's successor (Anupong resigns in September) as head of the military -- presumably to have some say in the appointment. Naturally the Reds want the same gig, which is why they want an election before September.

This has always been the heart of the matter. I have made the statement before that the Thai military can be thought of as playing a role similar to a branch of government in the US. They are there to provide a subtle reminder to the corrupt politicians not to get too far out of line. Obviously appointing the head of this branch for the next 4 years is a major strategic victory, and there is no way that the government is going to give that up to a bunch of red goons no matter how many hate speeches they spew.

That aside however, Thanong is reporting on the Nation blogs that there were direct negotiations with Pojman before this roadmap was announced, and Thaksin does seem to be supporting it. I think there may have been a back room deal cut directly with him, possibly at the expense of the red leadership. His tone certainly would seem to imply that he got something he wanted. Statements such as "now is a good time for reconcilliation," "I am just a small piece of the red movement," etc. I just wonder what was agreed to here?

Anyway, if he is on board then you can bet the red leaders will have no choice but to accept the deal. They may not like it, but the alternative is to be left twisting in the wind.

Abhisit is a good politician, but he wasn't responsible for whatever occurred today. There was some back room deal cut. I understand this is the nature of politics, but it annoys me no end that my future is being decided and I get no say in the process. But I can even accept that, as long as everyone agrees to stop this senseless posturing and prostelyzing about Thailand and democracy. Thailand is not now, nor will it ever be, a democracy. It will forever be ruled by a few elite families of both colours. Only fools believe otherwise.

[Neurath]

Fine, they win a scheduled election and put their own person(s) in. Not that difficult from what I hear.

Seems that what's being said now is that the recent political turmoil isn't primarily about elections or broadly construed democratic rights but about the September reshuffles of the bureaucracy and military. Since they happen once a year, a rather paltry excuse for which to go to the barricades and from which death.

Well, I don't think it's every year that the head of the military retires due to reaching mandatory retirement age. And a year in office without the support of the gorilla in the room can seem like a loooooooong time.

Sure it can seem a long time. Ask the Americans who have their president nominate, and then the congress confirm, Supreme Court Judges (for life). The primary attribute of any democratic polity is the ability to wait. This is why coups are a disaster. That's why armed occupation of national infrastructure is a disaster.

If the reds were/are fighting primarily in order to put their person(s) in the role of supreme commander and head of the army then a large part of the rhetoric about just wanting an election is moot - the current turmoil isn't about democratic rights but about monopolizing the power and milky tits of the State pure and simple. With scheduled elections it's just not worth the blood and division.

[jcbangkok]

According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Abhisit wants the election held after the appointment of Anupong's successor (Anupong resigns in September) as head of the military -- presumably to have some say in the appointment. Naturally the Reds want the same gig, which is why they want an election before September.

This has always been the heart of the matter. I have made the statement before that the Thai military can be thought of as playing a role similar to a branch of government in the US. They are there to provide a subtle reminder to the corrupt politicians not to get too far out of line. Obviously appointing the head of this branch for the next 4 years is a major strategic victory, and there is no way that the government is going to give that up to a bunch of red goons no matter how many hate speeches they spew.

That aside however, Thanong is reporting on the Nation blogs that there were direct negotiations with Pojman before this roadmap was announced, and Thaksin does seem to be supporting it. I think there may have been a back room deal cut directly with him, possibly at the expense of the red leadership. His tone certainly would seem to imply that he got something he wanted. Statements such as "now is a good time for reconcilliation," "I am just a small piece of the red movement," etc. I just wonder what was agreed to here?

Anyway, if he is on board then you can bet the red leaders will have no choice but to accept the deal. They may not like it, but the alternative is to be left twisting in the wind.

Abhisit is a good politician, but he wasn't responsible for whatever occurred today. There was some back room deal cut. I understand this is the nature of politics, but it annoys me no end that my future is being decided and I get no say in the process. But I can even accept that, as long as everyone agrees to stop this senseless posturing and prostelyzing about Thailand and democracy. Thailand is not now, nor will it ever be, a democracy. It will forever be ruled by a few elite families of both colours. Only fools believe otherwise.

IMO there was no deal or any communication with Thaksin from anybody representing the PM and believe the same is true for the local red leaders. The PM provided a road map that was very reasonable and anybody opposing it will seem unreasonable. Thaksin has become a joke to the world and much of Thailand and he is doing all he can to repair his image and not be seen as the one responsible for the red mob and violence in Thailand. The reds took an entire day to figure out how to look like they were reasonable while still not giving in. As seen by their speech today and the title of this thread, they did a horrible job.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Rinrada]

Well well..looks as though Geordie Lad might have pulled it off.....buts its only the start of the game so lets see what happens when the first whistle blows.

[SoiGirlHunter]

I have been watching this closely and todays outcome is disasterous

blood will flow

[shawndoc]

JC, I think you'd be surprised just how much back room negotiating is done in any Democracy, but especially Thai. There's too much face to be lost otherwise. Usually the head guys don't do the talking.

The key parts of the compromise have already been agreed to, and as I've said earlier I fully expect the reds to publicly ask for some additional concessions, and the government to give in on a chunk of them. And again, I expect most of this has already been worked out behind the scenes.

Right now the Red leadership is delaying in order to not appear too quick to concede, so they can manage the expectation of the mob, and more importantly to try and reel in the more militant members of the Red shirts.

If this process falls through, I full expect it will be due to people like Seh Daeng, Arisman and Kwanchai refusing to go along. There are official over 20 leaders in the red shirt movement, and while the big 4 (or 6) have probably agreed on how to end this, it will take time to bring all on board.

[Roadman]

Surely this is going to be the sticking point ?

"Two things seem to be in the way. The Democrats and the dominant Army faction won't risk an election until after the military reshuffle on October 1. The hardcore reds, and possibly Thaksin too, want the election before that key date. "

The Nation

A November election allows the government to purge the military of those suspected of being less than loyal to its cause. In that event even if they lose the election they have a military that wouldn't think twice about staging another coup to "protect" Thailand and maintain the status quo . Sure the red shirts can see that coming.

That appointment is the ace in the hole for the PM. Thankfully it will be a loyal Thai to his Monarch and country, who has been moulded by an excellent example by General Anupong.

Another is the Reds stupidity when it comes to election time. Again it will be how many of the Isaan won seats on the day will be re run or forfeited by bribes and corruption.

I think the Democrats have done enough to be in with a good chance at the election but even if they are not successful on the day it will only be a matter of time before the Isaanite parties implode again from their basic stupidity. Abhisit will hopefully play a long and successful hand in the improvements that are needed in Thai society.

[swifter]

Red-shirt leaders demand PM to specify House dissolution date

The red-shirt leaders Tuesday demanded that the prime minister announce a specific day for House dissolution before they will join the government's roadmap for political resolution.

They announced that the prime minister had no authority to set the election date on November 14 as the power belongs to the Election Commission.

They demanded that the government must show its sincerity towards political reconciliation by halting all kinds of intimidation towards the red-shirt protesters.

-- The Nation 2010-05-04

I think we can close this thread until further notice. MYbe I am dumb, but why must there be a house dissolution before the the election.

BBC are reporting that the reds are unconcerned by the date of election, they want to know when the house will be dissolved

this is still in line with their previous demands, so nothings really changed

they want Abhisit to dissolve the house quickly, so that he cannot pass the 2011 budget, and more importantly so he cannot amend the constitution to keep Thaksin and his cronies out and so that he can oversee the military reshuffle to see Anapong retire, and install Thaksin hater General Prayuth who will be the hard man that will bring the Army back on track

the reds know that if Abhisit can achieve these items on his personal road map then the red cause will be all but over bar the shouting

he can dissolve parliament almost when he chooses to

Gordon Brown dissolved the UK parliament on April 6th 2010 and the elections are the day after tomorrow

so a month is feasable and would be good news for Abhisit

get everything passed, in the meantime get the red shirt leaders, their associates and the Phua Thai Mp's charged with terrorism, lesse majeste, treason and murder

get the Phua Thai party dissolved for treason,

Thaksin will be proven to be a murderous, traiterous conspirator

there will be more trials here than there were in Salem

Abhisit will romp home with Korn as deputy in the biggest landslide this country has ever seen

This is the post Ive been waiting for, thank you. Well met sir.

[deadsnoopy]

I have been watching this closely and todays outcome is disasterous

blood will flow

Did I miss something?

[deadsnoopy]

According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Abhisit wants the election held after the appointment of Anupong's successor (Anupong resigns in September) as head of the military -- presumably to have some say in the appointment. Naturally the Reds want the same gig, which is why they want an election before September.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't need the actual election before the military reshuffle, only the parliament being dissolved should be enough. Clearly Abhisit wants this as his "insurance". In case the Democrats lose the next election, there's always the army that will do another coup.

[TheOldWolf]

According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Abhisit wants the election held after the appointment of Anupong's successor (Anupong resigns in September) as head of the military -- presumably to have some say in the appointment. Naturally the Reds want the same gig, which is why they want an election before September.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't need the actual election before the military reshuffle, only the parliament being dissolved should be enough. Clearly Abhisit wants this as his "insurance". In case the Democrats lose the next election, there's always the army that will do another coup.

It is important for the reds, so why isn´t it important for PM. Was it a coup after the election 2007?

[deadsnoopy]

According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Abhisit wants the election held after the appointment of Anupong's successor (Anupong resigns in September) as head of the military -- presumably to have some say in the appointment. Naturally the Reds want the same gig, which is why they want an election before September.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't need the actual election before the military reshuffle, only the parliament being dissolved should be enough. Clearly Abhisit wants this as his "insurance". In case the Democrats lose the next election, there's always the army that will do another coup.

It is important for the reds, so why isn´t it important for PM. Was it a coup after the election 2007?

There wasn't. But the military in Thailand has always played a role in politics. In both Thai and foreign media there has been a lot of discussion about the military (Anupong) having pressured the smaller coalition parties to join Abhisit's Democrats after the last election and the dissolution of PPP.

[TheOldWolf]

According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Abhisit wants the election held after the appointment of Anupong's successor (Anupong resigns in September) as head of the military -- presumably to have some say in the appointment. Naturally the Reds want the same gig, which is why they want an election before September.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't need the actual election before the military reshuffle, only the parliament being dissolved should be enough. Clearly Abhisit wants this as his "insurance". In case the Democrats lose the next election, there's always the army that will do another coup.

It is important for the reds, so why isn´t it important for PM. Was it a coup after the election 2007?

There wasn't. But the military in Thailand has always played a role in politics. In both Thai and foreign media there has been a lot of discussion about the military (Anupong) having pressured the smaller coalition parties to join Abhisit's Democrats after the last election and the dissolution of PPP.

Discussions and speculations, but we don´t know, do we?

[jcbangkok]

JC, I think you'd be surprised just how much back room negotiating is done in any Democracy, but especially Thai. There's too much face to be lost otherwise. Usually the head guys don't do the talking.

The key parts of the compromise have already been agreed to, and as I've said earlier I fully expect the reds to publicly ask for some additional concessions, and the government to give in on a chunk of them. And again, I expect most of this has already been worked out behind the scenes.

Right now the Red leadership is delaying in order to not appear too quick to concede, so they can manage the expectation of the mob, and more importantly to try and reel in the more militant members of the Red shirts.

If this process falls through, I full expect it will be due to people like Seh Daeng, Arisman and Kwanchai refusing to go along. There are official over 20 leaders in the red shirt movement, and while the big 4 (or 6) have probably agreed on how to end this, it will take time to bring all on board.

I am from the US as well as having been a business owner for a quite a while and am well aware of back room negotiating but my opinion still stands that there was none of this being done with Thaksin or the leaders of the red mob by anyone who represented the PM. There were some folks who wanted to be the heroes who spoke to the reds but they did it on their own . This isn't about Thaksin or the leaders of the red mob. Both have no say and have lost their support. The only thing the PM would do is play to the rational folks in the red mob so they will go home. The PM has said all along that he wanted to avoid injury and lose of life to what he called the innocent within the mob. Sad to say but it will play better for him if the authorities move in and clear out the remaining red mob this weekend after their number shrink even further with the mass exodus expected over the next couple days.

If you think this about saving face then the PM would not have made the comments he did about the reds and neither would the reds have made the comments they did. They simply would have both said they reached a partial agreement and working to finalize it.

People really need to stop being so paranoid and believing there is all this secret stuff going on and take the PM at his word. This isn't about the red mob. It is about Thailand and the reds have been muted and are now contained. They have also been given the rope to hang themselves which they have been doing a good job at. They have little sympathy from the world and Thailand at this point. As for Thaksin, he has become a joke. Not only is there NO reason to negotiate or compromise with these guys but doing so would be counter productive to the future of Thailand.

Having authorities uphold the law and clear out the hardcore remnants of the mob and throwing the book at them would be a huge leap forward in having Thais better understand how democracy works and how lawlessly taking to the streets will not be rewarded and in fact will do the opposite.

It just baffles me that people think negotiations went on behind the scenes with the reds so they could basically agree to the same offer Abhisit made to them before this thing turned ugly. In fact, it was a much better deal back then because they didn't have to go to jail.

[SoiGirlHunter]

I have been watching this closely and todays outcome is disasterous

blood will flow

Did I miss something?

you think the govt is going to let the red shirts continue to trash Bangkok til the elections? And the trsshing would greatly

increase close to the elections. The other problem is yellow shirts DO NOT want new elections, another ticking time bomb...

If today the red shirts packed up and went home to wait for the elections i would feel so good. Now i am going into the coffin

making business....

[deadsnoopy]

I have been watching this closely and todays outcome is disasterous

blood will flow

Did I miss something?

you think the govt is going to let the red shirts continue to trash Bangkok til the elections? And the trsshing would greatly

increase close to the elections. The other problem is yellow shirts DO NOT want new elections, another ticking time bomb...

If today the red shirts packed up and went home to wait for the elections i would feel so good. Now i am going into the coffin

making business....

I'm sure they will. It's all a matter of Abhisit confirming the date with the Election Commission. What he's done so far is publicly announced a date under the condition that "IF" his goals are met. That's not good enough, as he could fail in meeting his goals (ie. completing the investigations, passing bills, army reshuffle, etc). If he doesn't meet his goals, there's no guarantee of an election. So what the red shirts want is basically Abhisit to finalize the date when the election will be held, then they will go home.

It's like if you went to purchase a car. You're telling the car dealer that you will buy the car, but you haven't signed the contract yet and neither have you paid the car yet. He's not going to give you the keys until you've signed and paid.

[LuckyFive8888]

When I first met my Thai wife 6 years ago she thought Thaskin was god

you're kidding. i believe that your wife has more class than thaksin but she didn't just know it; that thaksin was a former police son of rich politician from chiang mai, married a daughter of a rich general, made his fortune through his connections in the police with his computer business, have got the monopoly of satellite concession and then AIS, after 20 or more years he is a billionaire.

i don't think gods are like this.

[SoiGirlHunter]

bloodbath, mark this post

[deadsnoopy]

I am from the US as well as having been a business owner for a quite a while and am well aware of back room negotiating but my opinion still stands that there was none of this being done with Thaksin or the leaders of the red mob by anyone who represented the PM.

The Bush administration really pushed the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" into the heads of the American people, didn't they. Well, most red shirts aren't terrorists, though there certainly are individuals that have acted in quite the wrong way during the past weeks. I'm quite sure that they don't however represent the majority of the red shirt movement and are simply troublemakers that are using this as an opportunity to stir hatred and violence.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but there are always discussions going on with even the most opposed political sides in the world. There were even secret diplomatic relations during WW2 between the US government and high ranking members of the Nazi regime. The Cold war between the US and Russia certainly wasn't as cold as it seemed.

There are most certainly negotiations going on between Abhisit, Newin, Anupong, Thaksin, etc. behind the scenes.