The Rural Poor Of Thailand... Some Surprises

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The Thai statistic says a Thai woman now gives 1.65 children. Statistic. Your anecdote is not a statistic.

Total fertility: 1.65 children born/woman (2009 est.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_...Total_fertility

This varies within sub-statum. I made a woman pregnant 9 times - and I'm a bi-sexual.

Who are you replying to?

and what does 1.65 children born/woman (2009 est.) mean?

It certainly does not mean that every Thai woman had 1.65 children in 2009 on average.

I would imagine that it means something like the average amount of children born by women above childbearing age./ This in itself means nothing as a lot of the women in this statistic will still have many childbearing years ahead of them.

Right, but you could just go look up what birth rate means and how it's calculated.

This is one part in the article that is likely accurate: Thailand's birth rate is worryingly low. The author of the article may have used it to show that Thailand is similar to First World Western countries (The birth rate in the USA is actually higher than Thailand right now)

I'm not sure why this is. It's probably a concern for the future, because in any other aspect Thailand is most definitely NOT on par with First World countries. It may be an indication of the perceived burden that children represent on the family budget when they go do school and university.. Perhaps, 20 years ago, when nobody (ok: 'nobody') from a poor background got into university, you could have as many kids as possible, it'd just add the cost for some extra sticky rice, and by the time the fifth sibling came along, the first one was nearly becoming productive and helping out the family.

These days though, ask young people anywhere how many brothers and sisters they have, or how many children. Usually the answer is 1, if that.

[witold]

I agree with your sentiment that Thailand is quite developed as it is and living standards are not as low as some have you believe.

However, I have to disagree with the following:

"To the American, the Thai seems impoverished, his house appalling basic, his expectations in life distressingly limited. But the Thai carpenter probably lives on family land rent-free, pays nothing to moderate the climate, produces his own vegetables, chickens, eggs and pork, and rides his own motor-cycle to his jobs. He's seen the American lifestyle on TV, and it's so far beyond the range of his experience, he doesn't feel deprived or envious."

Most Americans could easily switch to identical lifestyle and save a ton of money doing so. The reason why this isn't happening is although it may sound quite romantic and pleasant, semi-open air living, farming vegetables, raising chickens and pigs - all of that on top of a job - is certainly not as easy and carefree as it sounds. It takes a lot more work, effort and planning than coming to air conditioned house and watching TV the rest of the day. Cheaper? Yes. Easier? I would not say so.  It looks much more fun and easy looking from outside.    

Edited May 11, 2010 by witold

[khunandy]

I can only speak of my own observations after 5 years in rural Thailand. My inlaws and most of the village are small lot farmers, most of the rice is for self consumption and a few cash crops in between; tobacco, chilli, soy, corn.

From what I see year to year is when the time is ready for rice they go hard until the job is done, same for chilli, soy and tobacco...they are bloody hard working and very diligent when they need to be.

During the quiet times they take it easy and seem to be occupied by different festivals and cultural activities, some men drift off to building sites, some girls drift off to try and snatch a farang..whatever.

The family is lucky, they live in a nice valley, water all year and flood plain fertility to the soil, we had a visitor not long ago who lived there 30 years ago and said if you had land in this valley and were broke or hungry you were lazy. She meant that something could be grown all year. I mentioned this to my wife and she said it was true...some family land lay fallow and she said they were lazy this year and didnt want to put a soy crop down.

There are some very poor people in our valley as well, but I never see a kid in a scruffy school uniform or a girl with scraggly hair come out of their cinder block bathrooms. They have pride, they work hard and they help each other. I doubt they have much savings or all that many gadgets apart from the mobiles (1000 baht 2nd hand Nokias for anyone over 40 it seems )

I thought it was very 3rd worldish when I first visited but I have come to appreciate the basic lifestyle they lead.

[mpetersen]

Construction workers make 200 baht a day. The price of a Big Mac set. Yep, not bad at all.

Why would a thai worker need a big mac set? That's equivalent to a New York office worker going to Circo or Mylos for their daily lunch or dinner. A really decent nutritious lunch here can be had from 15-20 baht. Minimum wage earners in Thailand are far better off than minimum wage earners in US, Europe or other developed countries because of the local earning power of their minimum wage here.

You have to be kidding................

50% of a days wage on a meal ???

ph

Minimum wage in Thailand is almost 200 baht per day.

[loong]

Minimum wage in Thailand is almost 200 baht per day

I don't know where this statistic came from

I know that there is no National minimum wage, but I remember seeing somewhere that minimum wage is set according to the province.

Of course a lot of employers paying cash in hand will pay little regard to any minimum wage rate.

Last year my missus was offered a job in a 7-11. That job paid 157 Baht per day and no extra for the unsocial hours.

[RPETER65]

I agree with some of what you say, but take exception to your view of Thai education. It is not the lack of education possibilities in Thailand but the lack of interest to take advantage of what is out there.

I also live in the rural area of Thailand and have relatives to prove, if the desire is there so are the opportunities. My wife comes from one of those poor rural families, her brother, dispite the poor education in rural Thailand managed to get a masters degree in education his wife also has a masters degree and nteaches at a local high school, all three children have at least bachelors degrees, the oldest currently working on her doctorate in chemestry, the youngest on his masters in physics, the oldest will be attending MIT in the U.S. to finish her doctorate. If there is only the poor education you speak of how could they have done this with all there primary education done at the rural public schools. I have the answer for you, dedication and a lot of years of hard work, and a lot of encouragement from there family.The problem most children in nThailand face is not the lack of opportunity but the lack of backing from there family.

You say "I agree with some of what you say, but take exception to your view of Thai education" then you go on to say "her brother, dispite the poor education in rural Thailand managed to get a masters degree "

So you agree that the standard of education in rural Thailand is poor.

Congratulations to your family members who have done so well, but they are more the exception than the rule.

I agree with you about the lack of commitment and dedication. My missus was enrolled in an adult further education class on Sundays, but most students drifted away and often the teacher couldn't be bothered to show up. Lack of commitment by the students and the teacher.

I could have phrased that differently, I am not agreeing,or disagreeing that the education system is poor, what I am saying is that it seems to be good enough for children to be succesful if they are willing to work for success.

Good enough for what? to be a slave? Please, you people are an embarresment - what kid from the sticks has a cat in hells chance - unless you want to quote "Dek Chai Mong" yes the surname says a lot - the claim to fame was making fuc_king paper aeroplanes for gods sake!

None of these poor kids have a chance, they are made to grovel and kow tow from the day they are born!

I take it you did not actually read my post. I think the fact the family I spoke of has a daughter who will be attending M.I.T. in the U.S. speaks for it's self.

[sarahsbloke]

Last year my missus was offered a job in a 7-11. That job paid 157 Baht per day and no extra for the unsocial hours.

Nice to hear you married an educated lady with a high school diploma.

Almost no Thais are unable read & write. Girls on average get 14 years of schooling and boys 13 years (note that girls are ahead).

I have already said that most girls I speak to left school at age 12. (my step-daughter was about to leave school as she is 12, but I have insisted she continues while I support her)

The reading and writing is not true, how do you tell if a Thai can read or write?

Well I can read and write, and when a Thai can't understand my foreign accent (or just pretends not to understand cos they don't like white man) I write it down for them ........... you would be amazed how many can't read what I can write. Just last week I wanted my pronunciation of a sentence corrected, so I handed the note to my Thai mother-in-law and asked her to read it out loud for me ........ sorry, I can't read was the answer.

Then you get the Thais that can read, but can't write ....... many ways to write a word in Thai, but only one correct way, essentially you must memorise each Thai word in order to write it correctly. Reading is easier.

Edited May 12, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[yabaaaa]

Last year my missus was offered a job in a 7-11. That job paid 157 Baht per day and no extra for the unsocial hours.

Nice to hear you married an educated lady with a high school diploma.

Almost no Thais are unable read & write. Girls on average get 14 years of schooling and boys 13 years (note that girls are ahead).

I have already said that most girls I speak to left school at age 12. (my step-daughter was about to leave school as she is 12, but I have insisted she continues while I support her)

The reading and writing is not true, how do you tell if a Thai can read or write?

Well I can read and write, and when a Thai can't understand my foreign accent (or just pretends not to understand cos they don't like white man) I write it down for them ........... you would be amazed how many can't read what I can write. Just last week I wanted my pronunciation of a sentence corrected, so I handed the note to my Thai mother-in-law and asked her to read it out loud for me ........ sorry, I can't read was the answer.

Then you get the Thais that can read, but can't write ....... many ways to write a word in Thai, but only one correct way, essentially you must memorise each Thai word in order to write it correctly. Reading is easier.

Do you mean that if I write something n Thai it has to be done accoding to the words around it???.............. maybe thats why my wife takes ages to write an e mail about something I could write in seconds.

I dont think the comment on his wife was called for, an education does not make you a better person.

Edited May 12, 2010 by yabaaaa

[richieudon]

There are still millions who wake up at the crack of dawn and do back breaking work all day long 6 or 7 days a week.

Remind me again what they do exactly after the harvest has been collected and until 5/6 months later when the nextcrop is planted .

They sit and wait for the rain...pretty much what I'm doing right now..it's bleedin' hot!!!

[Crushdepth]

Poverty is relative. A large percentage of people in Thailand are "poor" but the standard of living here is still streets ahead of neighbouring countries.

IMHO the worst off people in Thailand by far are actually the immigrant workers from Myanmar, Cambodia and Hill Tribe and other ethnic minority groups. They get little or no support from the government (and that's on a good day) and often work for wages and conditions few others would touch.

[Tagaa]

I haven't taken the time to read the whole thred (nor do I have the desire). But let me give some of you a view from a small village in Issan where I have lived for the past 2 years.

Every household here has at least one motorcy, some old rattletraps, but most are relatively new & there are more than just a few Finos, Scoopy-I's & Neuvos. These aren't cheap. Probably every 3rd home has a truck, from new 4WD, 4 door Hi Lux's to barely running & rusted out POS (pieces of S__T). Most are in between. EVERY house has a TV & many have UBC or other satellite systems. You can see the dish's.

Today is Wednesday, so that means the cock fights, associated gambling & drinking have been going on all day. There were 18 trucks & too many motorcy's to count parked across from my house earlier in the day. Every teenage boy & girl has a cell phone...ALL of them nicer than mine (I buy the cheapest phone possible...This may be why I have been able to save money & move here 15 years before I am eligible for any retirement benefit).

As I walk & drive through the village, I see most residents hanging around, talking, & many are sound asleep at 1:00PM. It started to rain 5 days ago, so it won't be long until time to plant the rice. When it's time, about 98% off the village will disappear during the day to work on the family plots, planting rice. Also, since we are on the Mekong, about 6 to 8 boats, 10 to 12 meters in length & packed to the gills with workers, will travel from Lao to this village every morning to help in the paddies. The local village trucks meet them & take them to work. How does a poor person pay someone to work their land? Just curious? Oh, I forgot to mention, every family has an iron buffalo. There are buffalo here, but I've never seen one used to plow a paddy.

I am the only farang here, so the argument that the farang provides this standard of living just won't hold water.

I have also been trying to hire 2 of these "poor people" to work for me. One as a house keeper & one to work outside in the yard/garden. At first I offered 150 Bt per day as that's what the going day labor rate was at the time. No takers. So I go up to 200 per day...still no takers. I am still cleaning my own house (no problem, I just don't want to) & I finally found a guy that travels about 25K one way to come to work outside. I pay him 320 per day as he is a great worker and travels a long way (benzine isn't free, after all). He works for me when he has a day off from his regular job in town.

I guess the locals are not poor enough to want an easy job, 4 days a week, in a house with aircon and a laid back work environment (sure beats breaking your back in the hot sun planting rice, plus my job is 52 weeks a year). I did have one lady from the next village come to see about the housekeeper job. She knew what I would pay before she came. Once she came through the gate, she wanted 50% more. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. You would think that when the word went out that the farang had jobs, there would have been a stream of applicants. Not so.

So, to me, the idea that these people are poor & down trodden is BS. Some are hard working & some are just lazy.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Tagaa

[mpetersen]

Minimum wage in Thailand is almost 200 baht per day

I don't know where this statistic came from

I know that there is no National minimum wage, but I remember seeing somewhere that minimum wage is set according to the province.

Of course a lot of employers paying cash in hand will pay little regard to any minimum wage rate.

Last year my missus was offered a job in a 7-11. That job paid 157 Baht per day and no extra for the unsocial hours.

Sometimes i have to wonder why people post stuff without the simplest of research first. Of course there is a minimum wage in Thailand. I am not going to post a link, it's easy to google. Last year's upcountry minimum wage for women (yes it's lower than for men) might have been 157, but it's higher now, and in Bangkok and dam_n near close to 200 baht for men.

[TAWP]

Indeed there is alot of debt, much of it from gambling.

Indeed...my GF has sent home over 3 million over the past 8 years to cover her fathers gambling debts...and neither of the parents do any active work for years.

[Heng]

I haven't taken the time to read the whole thred (nor do I have the desire). But let me give some of you a view from a small village in Issan where I have lived for the past 2 years.

Every household here has at least one motorcy, some old rattletraps, but most are relatively new & there are more than just a few Finos, Scoopy-I's & Neuvos. These aren't cheap. Probably every 3rd home has a truck, from new 4WD, 4 door Hi Lux's to barely running & rusted out POS (pieces of S__T). Most are in between. EVERY house has a TV & many have UBC or other satellite systems. You can see the dish's.

Today is Wednesday, so that means the cock fights, associated gambling & drinking have been going on all day. There were 18 trucks & too many motorcy's to count parked across from my house earlier in the day. Every teenage boy & girl has a cell phone...ALL of them nicer than mine (I buy the cheapest phone possible...This may be why I have been able to save money & move here 15 years before I am eligible for any retirement benefit).

As I walk & drive through the village, I see most residents hanging around, talking, & many are sound asleep at 1:00PM. It started to rain 5 days ago, so it won't be long until time to plant the rice. When it's time, about 98% off the village will disappear during the day to work on the family plots, planting rice. Also, since we are on the Mekong, about 6 to 8 boats, 10 to 12 meters in length & packed to the gills with workers, will travel from Lao to this village every morning to help in the paddies. The local village trucks meet them & take them to work. How does a poor person pay someone to work their land? Just curious? Oh, I forgot to mention, every family has an iron buffalo. There are buffalo here, but I've never seen one used to plow a paddy.

I am the only farang here, so the argument that the farang provides this standard of living just won't hold water.

I have also been trying to hire 2 of these "poor people" to work for me. One as a house keeper & one to work outside in the yard/garden. At first I offered 150 Bt per day as that's what the going day labor rate was at the time. No takers. So I go up to 200 per day...still no takers. I am still cleaning my own house (no problem, I just don't want to) & I finally found a guy that travels about 25K one way to come to work outside. I pay him 320 per day as he is a great worker and travels a long way (benzine isn't free, after all). He works for me when he has a day off from his regular job in town.

I guess the locals are not poor enough to want an easy job, 4 days a week, in a house with aircon and a laid back work environment (sure beats breaking your back in the hot sun planting rice, plus my job is 52 weeks a year). I did have one lady from the next village come to see about the housekeeper job. She knew what I would pay before she came. Once she came through the gate, she wanted 50% more. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. You would think that when the word went out that the farang had jobs, there would have been a stream of applicants. Not so.

So, to me, the idea that these people are poor & down trodden is BS. Some are hard working & some are just lazy.

I'm sure more than a few have seen that Thailand as well, but it's easier to blame the gov't, those who have a more developed work ethic, or some other uneven playing field type gripe like 'country folks didn't know what paper currency and coins looked like until several decades ago so they are still trying to figure it all out, giv'em a break already!'

[billythefish]

Minimum wage in Thailand is almost 200 baht per day

I don't know where this statistic came from

I know that there is no National minimum wage, but I remember seeing somewhere that minimum wage is set according to the province.

Of course a lot of employers paying cash in hand will pay little regard to any minimum wage rate.

Last year my missus was offered a job in a 7-11. That job paid 157 Baht per day and no extra for the unsocial hours.

Sometimes i have to wonder why people post stuff without the simplest of research first. Of course there is a minimum wage in Thailand. I am not going to post a link, it's easy to google. Last year's upcountry minimum wage for women (yes it's lower than for men) might have been 157, but it's higher now, and in Bangkok and dam_n near close to 200 baht for men.

It is about 180 - 200 in Chiang Mai, and during Lam Yai season the women work for about 150-180 a day - you are not going to get a new Toyota vigo on that, even if the interest rates are zero for the rest of your life!

you should see the poor buggers where I am, there has been no rain, the last rice crop in 2009 paid out between 14-17 baht kilo, this year, it seems as if to punish the red shirts, with no water, a failing crop, they are getting 6 baht a kilo for homily!!!!

I pick my kid up from school everyday here and drive past some huge paddies (no not big Irish blokes) and they are as dry as a bone - the govt. Klong water is gone, not a drop, the only hope they have of salvaging anything is groups of workers with a well, and trying to pump water from a hose pipe to try and flood maybe twenty rai! It barely wets the soil.

The thing to think of here is, that when this crop fails, these people are fuc_kED!, they usually borrow the fertiliser and pay for it after the crop, they need to pay for either workers or a machine to harvest the crop - what is left of it, they need to pay for tractors and irrigation to plant it in the first place - and when it was 14-17 Baht a kilo (look what the middlemen were selling it for on the open market - Farmers are not allowed to sell on the open market - were making - prices were over 25 baht a kilo.) the farmers barely managed to make a few baht - they were just able to salvage enough rice for the family for the year, the excess that was sold paid the debts for the tractors/labour/fertiliser, and probably allowed them to buy next seasons crop.

This year - they are up shit creek without a paddle!

They have no hope - is it not surprising why they are getting so damned desperate and angry?

The <deleted> that broker the rice (I still believe there is a general world shortage) will be still getting their 25-30 baht a kilo, while the poor buggers just struggling to feed themselves get 6 baht! It STINKS!

[loong]

Minimum wage in Thailand is almost 200 baht per day

I don't know where this statistic came from

I know that there is no National minimum wage, but I remember seeing somewhere that minimum wage is set according to the province.

Of course a lot of employers paying cash in hand will pay little regard to any minimum wage rate.

Last year my missus was offered a job in a 7-11. That job paid 157 Baht per day and no extra for the unsocial hours.

Sometimes i have to wonder why people post stuff without the simplest of research first. Of course there is a minimum wage in Thailand. I am not going to post a link, it's easy to google. Last year's upcountry minimum wage for women (yes it's lower than for men) might have been 157, but it's higher now, and in Bangkok and dam_n near close to 200 baht for men.

Sometimes I have to wonder at people's inability to read a post

I said that there is no NATIONAL minimum wage but went on to say that I was aware that each province had its own minimum wage

I found this list of minimum wage by province

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=92556

and if it is correct, the lowest minimum wage by province is 151 Baht daily. That's quite a bit lower than 200 Baht

[Konini]

I don't put my head up very often, but I have to say that this has been one of the most interesting discussions I've seen on TV for a long time. A little bit of sarcasm here and there, but no real nastiness or offensiveness - that's when I stop reading the threads. Have to say that whilst I don't agree with the OP and his 'statistics', I've learned a lot about rural life in general, not just the rural poor. And I've learned it from those arguing for and against the OP.

Well done people, hope this discussion continues for a fair while to come.

[CPH]

One of the problems for the poor people in Thailand is that they do not want to show that they are poor. If someone dies in the family they have to make a large party for maybe one week in order to show they can and in order to collect as much merit for the dead as possible. In order to hold the party they have to borrow money at the local loan shark at 10 % interest per month. It is the same with weddings, monkhood etc. Of course some of the money comes in again from gifts from the guests. Another large expense is contributions to the temples. They cannot just give 20 baht, they have to give 100, 200 or more not to loose face and to gain more merit. As the OP indicated rural life in Thailand is not so bad, luckily most people own a little land and can live on that combined with some work. As far as I see the major problem is that they are often in deep debt to loan sharks.

[thaihome]

I don’t think there is a country in the world that guarantees that a subsistent farmer and his family won’t live in near poverty. Thailand is well along the development curve and the one out growth of that is the urban migration. In every developed country, the rural areas (excluding the major landowners) tends to become poverty stricken, or at least very poor. Anyone with any sense and a good family backing as probably left. The smart ones will get some sort of skill and will likely join the urban middle class.

My experience is there are basically 3 type’s adults living in rural villages.

1.Old people that are pretty much supported by their families, usually that work in Bangkok or more likely Eastern Seaboard.

2. Younger people that have made the conscience decision to make the best of it they can living in the village. They have tried working in the city and did like it. They tend to be very hard working, take whatever work they can get and if they own some land try to make it pay as much as it can. They will start any type of business they can afford and think may work.

3.The slackers that are doomed no matter where they live. Alcohol and gambling tend to be rife; a symptom of generations of dysfunctional families.

I think these 3 types exist is every rural area in any developed country as well.

TH

Edited May 13, 2010 by thaihome

[Heng]

Pretty good summary.

[enginerevision]

200 baht a day, most farangs pay more for their evening meal. Get the point?

[LaoPo]

I don’t think there is a country in the world that guarantees that a subsistent farmer and his family won’t live in near poverty. Thailand is well along the development curve and the one out growth of that is the urban migration. In every developed country, the rural areas (excluding the major landowners) tends to become poverty stricken, or at least very poor. Anyone with any sense and a good family backing as probably left. The smart ones will get some sort of skill and will likely join the urban middle class.

My experience is there are basically 3 type’s adults living in rural villages.

1.Old people that are pretty much supported by their families, usually that work in Bangkok or more likely Eastern Seaboard.

2. Younger people that have made the conscience decision to make the best of it they can living in the village. They have tried working in the city and did like it. They tend to be very hard working, take whatever work they can get and if they own some land try to make it pay as much as it can. They will start any type of business they can afford and think may work.

3.The slackers that are doomed no matter where they live. Alcohol and gambling tend to be rife; a symptom of generations of dysfunctional families.

I think these 3 types exist is every rural area in any developed country as well.

TH

Maybe you mean underdeveloped countries because I don't see or know many old people in Western Europe who are supported by their families. Of course the social government systems prevent the absolute necessity to support parents but as my late Father always said:

"the social welfare -income- is too much to die and too little to survive (of)"

Supporting the elderly is not exactly something the West (developed countries) is famous for nor should be proud of... there's a lot of hidden poverty amongst elderly people in the West...

Asians have no idea how so many elderly in the West live in miserable conditions, hidden (and locked..) away in small rooms without ever having their children and grand children visit them....maybe once..with Christmas...

The Asian people do a much better job, no matter how poor they are.

LaoPo

[hawthorne]

Not sure how truthfull it is but it makes sense for the majority of the statistics. It was a good article and well written cudos to the author.

[evanson]

If you took time to move around Bangkok and not just stay arouns Sukhumvit and the centre you will cllearly see slums that accomodate hundreds of thousands of people.A construction labour worker will typically earn around 6.000 baht a month , I´d like to see you do that.Have you ever been to many places up country ? I doubt it.

The slum workers are mostly migrants from Myanmar, Laos, etc.. Your average up country Thai folk don't come to Bangkok to lay bricks in the hot sun when there are so many stall and service industry jobs that pay better with far less effort.

Thailand has ALOT of poverty , no people dot starve to death Thailand is known as the garden of Asia and produces alot of food but alot of people in Thailand have an extremely hard life.

Statistically speaking it's far better than other developing nations and its economy doesn't hinge on tourism and agriculture like people think. I've been saying this awhile too and in my line of work I see Thai corporations making most of their money through pan-asian business.

Let's put it this way i'd rather be a peasant living in Thailand with a plot of family land to live off of than living in an urban slum in India or even some place like provincial Russia.

Sorry to inform you but you will mainly find many migrant workers living in tin shacks , these are tempory accomadations in and around construction sites.Actual slums (the most well known is Klong Toey)

is full of Thais not foreign workers.This is the most known slum because it is central so everybody has heard about it but there are many more.I move around bangkok by bike so i find these place which otherwise I certainly would not.

I share your sentiment regarding India , that has MEGA poverty

Because they breed like rats. Even they will tell you that 'How can we improve our infrastructure when we have one million new people born every year?' Not exactly 'apples for apples'. Is it.

[CallumW]

There is a major flaw in the original post.

When terms such as own a fridge, own a motorcycle, own a pickup are thrown around, then the OP should really state the facts more truly. In the majority of cases these items are not owned by the villager, they are owned by the bank or the finance company that leant them the money to buy them.

[angiud]

Thank you to revive an interesting old thread.

On my side I can only say that I employ 12 people in my business, all of them from Myanmar, and this because I cannot find Thai manpower here in Koh Phangan (initial salary 6000, plus some extra. room, food, permit)

[Forethat]

Am I allowed to write that this "article" is the biggest sack of <deleted> I've read on this forum?

I dont know if I am. My opinion is exactly what my first sentence says, but can I write that?

[citizen33]

I came across this old article today and thought of this thread.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2059037

This represents the more conventional view that the OP is trying to counter. It makes for an interesting debate but I still think that the critics of the subsistence economy have a point.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Am I allowed to write that this "article" is the biggest sack of <deleted> I've read on this forum?

I dont know if I am. My opinion is exactly what my first sentence says, but can I write that?

Not sure, but I'm sure I've seen bigger ones.

[Forethat]

Am I allowed to write that this "article" is the biggest sack of <deleted> I've read on this forum?

I dont know if I am. My opinion is exactly what my first sentence says, but can I write that?

Not sure, but I'm sure I've seen bigger ones.

lol, yeah I just remembered the biling...triling...multilingual gardener thingy!