Three More Dead In Fresh Bangkok Violence

[hyperion]

Is Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva a War Criminal ?

Abhisit has the Blood of Thai citizens on his hands.

Abhisit ordered the Thai Army to shoot unarmed people including women and children !

Abhisit uses the same old saying we must maintain the "Rule of Law" sure Mr Abhisit you maintain your laws by killing unarmed civilians.

Abhisit why not rid your country of all the poor people. Kill them all while the world stand by and does nothing !

Abhisit hope you hang on the gallows the same as Saddam Hussein, he killed his own people and was declared a War Criminal.

To the Thai Army Stop The Killing of your own brothers and sisters !!

Look at the pictures of the so called terrorists or are they unarmed civilians ?

There you go.

The red apologist mantra of unarmed civilians, women and children.

That the reds are happy to put their woman and children into the front line for Thaksin's 500 baht says a lot about them.

The poor people are the locals being put out of business by the red antics.

Want the killing to stop?

Go home.

And take off those Thaksin T-shirts.

If I give someone 500 Baht, does that mean I can shoot and kill them? You're ridiculous.

There is no proof that the protesters are being paid, just allegations, which Dan Rivers from CNN, who I find a lot more credible than an anonymous forum poster, said was most likely not the case with the majority of protesters, if not all of them.

Hmm. I was at my friend's condo on Petchburi road near Pantip when they had their big march through the city. Me and my buddy asked several of them how much they were being paid to be there. About 75% said 500 baht per day. Others said they came on their own will.

I wouldn't know how many there now are still being paid, though. Another anonymous forum member, but I've got no reason to lie.

[monkfish]

Redshirt shot dead near the end of video

Seems he was just trying to shoot some video?

[thailien8]

The bloody-minded former wannabe Thai dictator (and GREAT MAN in his own mind) has gotten what he wanted, yet again.

"Takki Shinegra", a sad substitute for Frankie Shinawatra (final syllable pronounced, during his short run of footie glory in England) must be very happy just now, wherever he is, as we Bangkokians suffer from his well-funded, and organized (exceptional for a Thai) campaign to right, by any means possible, the ultimate wrong --] the worst loss of face in all of recorded Thai history -- when he got coup'ed out of power, just before he was going to take the UN stage in New York City, at the height of his delusions of power, and BS the world as only he can do.

[TAWP]

Redshirt shot dead near the end of video

Seems he was just trying to shoot some video?

A tip is to not hide amongst violent thugs just to try out your new DV cam.

This was posted here some 18 hours ago, but I don't wanna go back and copy what was posted...

1.40 and forward shows how peaceful they are. Like the steel-bb slingshot at 1.48. They can do some real damage.

But I really miss the second between the guy sitting squashed behind the cover and him being hit in the head...why leave it out?

[TAWP]

Redshirt shot dead near the end of video

Seems he was just trying to shoot some video?

A tip is to not hide amongst violent thugs just to try out your new DV cam.

This was posted here some 18 hours ago, but I don't wanna go back and copy what was posted...

1.40 and forward shows how peaceful they are. Like the steel-bb slingshot at 1.48. They can do some real damage.

But I really miss the second between the guy sitting squashed behind the cover and him being hit in the head...why leave it out?

Btw, check the guy at 2.26, his back is against where the army supposedly is? If they shot him, why is he now sitting so open?

[Spee]

It is not difficult to predict that members of the forum will differ in their views of the relevance of “international standards” and whether they have been breached by the Thai authorities. However, there is little doubt that this will be the benchmark that many international observers will use to assess the legitimacy of what has happened.

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i1ccleo.htm

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm

What a load of rubbish!

The UN is little more than a corrupt organization where rogue leaders are given a voice to spread their vile intent. The UN has no jurisdiction in Thailand or any other sovereign nation and this list of so-called "international standards" might just as well be called "international double standards" because the majority of the UN membership will never abide by them and only the major nations will be expected to.

Let's keep the perspective. This is a difficult and trying time for Thailand to be sure with a lot of senseless violence. At the same, it is localized to a tiny fraction of one city with a tiny fraction of the nation's population participating, and an even tinier fraction choosing to be violent. No one actually knows who is sniping whom (or why?, edit). The soldiers have shown a great deal of restraint in a difficult situation where they have to follow orders. It seems clear that sensible heads prevail on one side but the other side is out of control.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Spee

[TAWP]

From FB, a resident expat posted:

"The government must quickly suppress them even if it means

deaths. War is no war without deaths," she said, adding that red shirts

are "vulgar, uneducated and barbaric".

All the problems stemmed from one man - ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, she concluded.

and: "this women is a noodle stall holder inside the red camp.."

[redparrot]

Funny how Abhisit has repeatedly said, to CNN and BBC among others, that he will resign if he cannot solve the situation at Rajprasong. Well, the situation at Rajprasong has now escalated to a civil war across entire Bangkok and is about to spread to the entire country. Yet, he's still holding on to power. If he didn't promise things that he knows he can't keep, maybe this all wouldn't be.

[TAWP]

Now you parrot the same post in several threads? Ok...

Funny how Abhisit has repeatedly said, to CNN and BBC among others, that he will resign if he cannot solve the situation at Rajprasong. Well, the situation at Rajprasong has now escalated to a civil war across entire Bangkok and is about to spread to the entire country. Yet, he's still holding on to power. If he didn't promise things that he knows he can't keep, maybe this all wouldn't be.

Funny how the red shirt leaders promised they would turn themselves in on the 15th no matter what happened...

If they wouldn't promise things that they know they cannot keep, maybe this wouldn't be.

[eleison]

Now you parrot the same post in several threads? Ok...

Funny how Abhisit has repeatedly said, to CNN and BBC among others, that he will resign if he cannot solve the situation at Rajprasong. Well, the situation at Rajprasong has now escalated to a civil war across entire Bangkok and is about to spread to the entire country. Yet, he's still holding on to power. If he didn't promise things that he knows he can't keep, maybe this all wouldn't be.

Funny how the red shirt leaders promised they would turn themselves in on the 15th no matter what happened...

If they wouldn't promise things that they know they cannot keep, maybe this wouldn't be.

The reds will win... there's too many of them.. they are motivated... and they will remember the violence..

Think about it -- who will still be wearing their yellow shirts? Unless you want to get hurt -- you wouldn't. Its a sad day, but I can picture someone being a yellow supporter being killed by a red tax driver. Also, remember a lot of the army has people from the north.

You cannot swept this under the rug anymore. The MAJORITY of the people are upset and it is set in their subconsciousness. Even if the government were to clear the protesters right now -- they may win the battle (and I think they will EVENTUALLY win the battle); but the war is lost. The ruling elite must bend -- or they must create a police state to keep the majority in check; something I cannot fathom. Yes, kill all the red supporter; each death will multiple hatred of the elites and the yellows at least three folds.

In a year, how many thais are willing to visit the rural area's wearing a yellow shirt? To be honest, this thing can spiral into a civil war...Not right now.. but it can if the people in power don't recognize this and bend

[citizen33]

It is not difficult to predict that members of the forum will differ in their views of the relevance of “international standards” and whether they have been breached by the Thai authorities. However, there is little doubt that this will be the benchmark that many international observers will use to assess the legitimacy of what has happened.

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i1ccleo.htm

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm

What a load of rubbish!

Why rubbish? The Thai Government stated just before the latest push that it would use force according to "international standards". What do you suppose that means? Insofar as there are any international standards, they exist in documents such as the ones cited above, which, for example, have featured in attempts by organisations like Amnesty International to bring the Israelis to book. Obviously in that case those attempts were largely unsuccessful and nobody is saying these codes have the force of law in Thailand, but I think you are naive if you believe international observers won't bear them in mind when they assess what has happened. No amount of invective on this board will change that. Several people on various threads have used the term "international standards" but their understanding of what that means seems hazy at best. Perhaps a definition for those inside the laager is needed but don't expect the outside world to accept it.

Edited May 15, 2010 by citizen33

[retdson]

It's a power struggle - nothing more nor less. Redshirts all talk about 'democracy' but they don't mean what they say. If they really wanted democracy they'd have taken up Abhisit's offer of an election in November. Abhisit - for all his faults actually understands what a democracy is supposed to look like. And he knows you cant' have it without time to cool off, sort out the logistics, then campaign and hold an election in an atmosphere that isn't viscerally tribal and overshadowed by ongoing violence The sort they have in proper functioning democracies in other words.

But no the redshirts can't wait a few months to do it properly- and the mask slips. This demand for immediate dissolution and 'democracy' while they simultaneously attack and disrupt civil society is nothing but an attempt to create a power vacuum (anarchy) that they can manipulate for their own ends. I used to be quite sympathetic to the red shirts. - but I'm utterly sick of them now. I"m just sorry that so many are dupes of the cynics who run them.

Edited May 15, 2010 by retdson

[GungaDin]

_________________

What is the expression? You get what you sow? The Thai government hasn't done enough to keep education a top priotity in the rural area ( most of the students in the North and Isaan only go to school until they're 15, then go to the big cities to work for minimum wage-- which is lousy); they're also not taught critical thinking skills (so they believe anyone); and (of course) no civics class to teach them how democracy works and their civic duty NOT to take bribes. Whoever ends up winning in the next election, I hope drastic measures are taken to improve the gap so "thugs" like Thaksin can no longer convince these simple minded people that he's "god".

You hit it on the nail. Good education is the key out of poverty.

Amen to that.

Students from Thailand, Indonesia et al, cannot believe that they can ask questions of their teachers at Aus Universities.

Unheard of in Thailand.

Edited May 15, 2010 by GungaDin

[kissdani]

From FB, a resident expat posted:

"The government must quickly suppress them even if it means

deaths. War is no war without deaths," she said, adding that red shirts

are "vulgar, uneducated and barbaric".

All the problems stemmed from one man - ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, she concluded.

and: "this women is a noodle stall holder inside the red camp.."

Wow, now that is really a reliable source.

Please keep us updated, you are the man of FACTS!

[jucel]

a credible source

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btp-wUvNXuM...player_embedded

Where are all these 'terrorists'? Where are all the armed reds? How many soldiers have been injured in the last 3 days?? Surely with all the cameras etc we would have some proof of a red firing a gun!

Dan Rivers backs up this case in the video above and he's actually reporting from the scene! Not guessing like a lot of people from behind their computers!!

[jucel]

From FB, a resident expat posted:

"The government must quickly suppress them even if it means

deaths. War is no war without deaths," she said, adding that red shirts

are "vulgar, uneducated and barbaric".

All the problems stemmed from one man - ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, she concluded.

and: "this women is a noodle stall holder inside the red camp.."

Wow, now that is really a reliable source.

Please keep us updated, you are the man of FACTS!

Why is she working in a noodle stall if her English is fluent!!

[eleison]

_________________

What is the expression? You get what you sow? The Thai government hasn't done enough to keep education a top priotity in the rural area ( most of the students in the North and Isaan only go to school until they're 15, then go to the big cities to work for minimum wage-- which is lousy); they're also not taught critical thinking skills (so they believe anyone); and (of course) no civics class to teach them how democracy works and their civic duty NOT to take bribes. Whoever ends up winning in the next election, I hope drastic measures are taken to improve the gap so "thugs" like Thaksin can no longer convince these simple minded people that he's "god".

You hit it on the nail. Good education is the key out of poverty.

Amen to that.

Students from Thailand, Indonesia et al, cannot believe that they can ask questions of their teachers at Aus Universities.

Unheard of in Thailand.

This is bull. Good education is NOT the key out of poverty... esp. if someone rich can put their sons and daughters in "good schools" by pulling some levers or showing some $$$$. Heck how is a good eduction key to anything if you can just barely afford to pay for food?

The people in Isaan aren't stupid. I have distant relatives who live there. What there needs to be is more equality.. more opportunities. Calling these people "simple minded" is no longer "good enough"... whatever... the genie is out of the bottle. Try wearing a yellow shirt in these rural areas next year... try wearing this yellow shirt in certain parts of Bangkok next year... Think that you are smarter than every "back woods" thai issan... not a good idea... and these pictures will only fuel their hatred.

[AleG]

a credible source

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btp-wUvNXuM...player_embedded

Where are all these 'terrorists'? Where are all the armed reds? How many soldiers have been injured in the last 3 days?? Surely with all the cameras etc we would have some proof of a red firing a gun!

Dan Rivers backs up this case in the video above and he's actually reporting from the scene! Not guessing like a lot of people from behind their computers!!

Here's one but I'm to sleepy to go looking for the others I've seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmj4EOngkl0

[kissdani]

From FB, a resident expat posted:

"The government must quickly suppress them even if it means

deaths. War is no war without deaths," she said, adding that red shirts

are "vulgar, uneducated and barbaric".

All the problems stemmed from one man - ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, she concluded.

and: "this women is a noodle stall holder inside the red camp.."

Wow, now that is really a reliable source.

Please keep us updated, you are the man of FACTS!

Why is she working in a noodle stall if her English is fluent!!

Found the source. It is a The Nation article. Includes some more voices form the people at the street. Will copy and paste the whole thing.

A LETTER FROM WIRELESS-SARASIN INTERSECTION

Unfazed red-shirts guards ready for military incursion

By PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

THE NATION

Published on May 15, 2010

As I entered Wireless Road yesterday |afternoon, the posh street was uncharacteristically quiet except for the occasional gun shots and the noise of helicopters hovering above.

As I passed the Dutch Embassy, I saw an injured man being carried away on a motorcycle, squeezed between two red-shirt protesters.

There weren't that many people left but hardcore red-shirt guards were staying put as they waited for a possible incursion by soldiers.

At the Wireless-Sarasin intersection, the morale of the red-shirt guards was high. They chatted among themselves and armed themselves with motolov cocktails, steel pipes, sling shots and bamboo sticks.

"I'm not afraid," one black-clad red-shirt guard told me. Just minutes earlier, skirmishes between soldiers and red shirts took place and one border patrol police bus was burnt down. A number of people, mostly red shirts and reporters were injured by what appeared to be gunshots with one reported death. "The soldiers shot at will," said another man. "This government is absolutely evil. And they are not resigning."

They exchanged tales about the skirmishes with those who returned from the frontline and by 2.30pm a leader of the guards shouted that the barricade they are manning will be shut and asked those who wanted to come inside to start moving.

"It's an order. We will burn the tyres if they come," the guards' leader warned.

Once inside, what some reds called "the liberated zone", I dropped by to buy a pop soda at a nearby eatery called "Tom Sab Rod Ded", which stopped serving food but was still selling drinks.

"Are you yellow or red?" an old lady asked me. After telling the shop owner, a Thai-Chinese lady in her late fifties that I'm from The Nation, widely regarded as an anti-red media, she began confiding that she "dislikes reds". The lady accused that the guards are being paid and are drug addicts and so on and added that she does not like the way they searched her car.

"[The government] must quickly suppress them even if it means deaths. War is no war without deaths," she said, adding that red shirts are "vulgar, uneducated and barbaric". All the problems stemmed from one man - ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, she concluded.

Just minutes after I left the shop, I was spotted by a red shirt who recognised me. Mac was a former student activist. Now a red shirt walking with sharpened bamboo walking stick, Mac said he has been sleeping here on and off for weeks. "Many of the guards are alumni of Ramkamhaeng University," Mac insisted.

I walked with him to the Rajprasong intersection, the centre of the protest, where tens of thousands of people are still holding out bracing for the imminent military crackdown.

Soon panic briefly broke as two ambulances sped to a corner of the front of the main stage. A speaker on the stage told the crowd to clear the way.

Two people were carried on stretchers to Police Hospital just behind the stage - one with white clothes splattered with blood covering his whole body except the feet. A medic told me one of the two red shirt guards will not likely survive.

"Soldiers shot them," said the medic. "His pulse is very weak," he said, referring to one of the two red guards.

Red-shirt women in front of Police Hospital just next to the main stage started crying after seeing the bodies taken in. One cried and shouted out loud: "Cruel bastard! God dam_n this regime! What are we waiting for. Let us burn [buildings] down!" A red-shirt man then tried to calm her down but the woman said all red shirts are like her real relatives.

"Why should we allow this government to hang on to power?" she screamed.

-- The Nation May 15, 2010

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...r-30129371.html

[redparrot]

She's just trying to sell noodles. If the reporter had said he was pro red-shirt, she would have come up with the same story the other way around about how bad the government is. Smart businesswoman, too bad the lousy reporter fell for it.

[jucel]

a credible source

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btp-wUvNXuM...player_embedded

Where are all these 'terrorists'? Where are all the armed reds? How many soldiers have been injured in the last 3 days?? Surely with all the cameras etc we would have some proof of a red firing a gun!

Dan Rivers backs up this case in the video above and he's actually reporting from the scene! Not guessing like a lot of people from behind their computers!!

Here's one but I'm to sleepy to go looking for the others I've seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmj4EOngkl0

good clip.

The army should be focusing on taking out the armed black renegades. However, everyone I have seen killed has been wearing civilian clothes.

[kissdani]

She's just trying to sell noodles. If the reporter had said he was pro red-shirt, she would have come up with the same story the other way around about how bad the government is. Smart businesswoman, too bad the lousy reporter fell for it.

Nah, the article tries to be balanced and just collect a lot of different 'man/woman from the street' comments.

Right next after the noodle lady and her story of "vulgar, uneducated and barbaric" reds he meets Mac, the former student activist with the sharpened bamboo walking stick, who gets his line that :"Many of the guards are alumni of Ramkamhaeng University"

Whatever, these man from the street voices should not be overrated and used as the 'hammer quote' that proves everything. But the old lady is real, same as the other voices in the article, representing how the society is divided.

[ozzieman05]

a credible source

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btp-wUvNXuM...player_embedded

Where are all these 'terrorists'? Where are all the armed reds? How many soldiers have been injured in the last 3 days?? Surely with all the cameras etc we would have some proof of a red firing a gun!

Dan Rivers backs up this case in the video above and he's actually reporting from the scene! Not guessing like a lot of people from behind their computers!!

Here's one but I'm to sleepy to go looking for the others I've seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmj4EOngkl0

good clip.

The army should be focusing on taking out the armed black renegades. However, everyone I have seen killed has been wearing civilian clothes.

Maybe that’s because the red shirt hard core where told to take off their red shirts and wear normal clothes

If this was a declared wore they could be shot as spies

[Brian67]

are we to presume that these individuals were just shot by the authorities for being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Yup-collateral damage

[Spee]

It is not difficult to predict that members of the forum will differ in their views of the relevance of “international standards” and whether they have been breached by the Thai authorities. However, there is little doubt that this will be the benchmark that many international observers will use to assess the legitimacy of what has happened.

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i1ccleo.htm

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm

What a load of rubbish!

.... according to "international standards". What do you suppose that means?

Certainly not something produced by a hack organization on a US-subsidized vacation in Havana. Standards for codes of conduct created in Cuba? Now that's an oxymoron if there ever was one.

... for example, have featured in attempts by organisations like Amnesty International to bring the Israelis to book.

You're way off topic with that comment .... not to mention way out of line.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Spee

[GungaDin]

She's just trying to sell noodles. If the reporter had said he was pro red-shirt, she would have come up with the same story the other way around about how bad the government is. Smart businesswoman, too bad the lousy reporter fell for it.

Red Parrot......... yes you are.

[mdrichard]

Holding the city hostage for 2 months is just idiotic.

You're right.

But well, what should they do to make things change?

Having elections does not seem to work.

Or maybe things should not change in Thailand.

And I'm all for the status quo, good for business.

Thailand needs help with this crisis as soon as possible. The help needs to be in the form of a neutral mediator or consultant to help develop a true "roadmap toward solving the problem". Neither the current government or opposing political group can do this to the others satisfaction and this is not surprising. Inherent in the Thai culture is a basic lack of trust. People don't trust each other, businesses don't trust one another and certainly few people if any, including officials within the government, trust the government. The lack of trust is not uncommon within third world and/or developing nations. The lack of trust and self centered decision making based on personal gains or losses by government officials prohibits mutually agreed upon goals, objectives, roadmaps to problem solving and immediate action plans from being developed. The PM in this country, as in most other countries, does not operate in a vacuum so he does not have the authority to develop a solution (roadmap) on his own.

Asking for help (from outside the current government) is not an admission of incompetence but rather an action that indicates true conviction to solving the problem by using any and all resources available. A starting point could be ASEAN counterparts and the UN just to "pick their brains" so to speak on their experiences and ideas. There are also many private firms that specialize and have experience with problem resolution, even at a government level. Many large companies around the world also call on help from outside their company decision makers for help. It is not a failure to do so but rather a failure not to.

The time for focusing on saving face as a country has passed and it is time to worry about saving lives!

[Ulysses G.]

Thailand needs help with this crisis as soon as possible. The help needs to be in the form of a neutral mediator or consultant to help develop a true "roadmap toward solving the problem".

The government already offered a generous and sincere solution and it was at first accepted, but then all kinds of other silly demands were demanded. The redshirts have made their own bed. It is too bad.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thailand needs help with this crisis as soon as possible. The help needs to be in the form of a neutral mediator or consultant to help develop a true "roadmap toward solving the problem".

The government already offered a generous and sincere solution and it was at first accepted, but then all kinds of other silly demands were demanded. The redshirts have made their own bed. It is too bad.

Agreed. But now that this has happened and the situation dramatically worsened through the incompetence and stubbornness of some red leaders: Now what?

"Shoot them all" seems to be the current answer. Not sure that it's the best one, seeing that everyone still has to live with each other in the country after this is over.

Edited May 16, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with you, but I'm afraid that the protesters blew their chance and have lost all credibility. They only want more peace talks now that they are getting creamed.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.