Thai Troops Violate Law In Bangkok Action: Amnesty

[drronnie]

absolutely pointless attempting to discuss and explain then? that one of the parties involved is an official government bound by international laws and rules and supposedly committed to responsible governance of its people while the other is an unelected gang of hotheads not subject to international laws?

sheesh.

regardless that you clearly support the government side, this article is about them breaking the law using live fire. Are you saying you support the shooting of unarmed protesters ? Whether or not they are a gang of hotheads is personal opinion but considering TV images regularly show protesters using sling shots against army using bullets I think amnesty have a valid point.

Why are so many people on here so one sidely supporting violence and death ? Personally I'd prefer to see the government stop aimlessly calling everyone terrorists and actually try to sort these long standing issues out. Guns just aren't going to do that

i think you need to read my posts again. i'm not on anyone's 'side' in this other than that of as peaceful a resolution as can be as soon as possible. amnesty rightly points out that the government of thailand is breaching international human rights laws by firing live rounds on unarmed civilians, a crime in any country on earth.

this doesn't get solved using violence any which way and whoever is holding the guns. it needs UN intervention and diplomacy immediately.

I agree, army has to step back and the red shirt have to unarm themselves too.

[ianf]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

AS a previous member of Amnesty International Secretariat staff, I know the organisation and its values well. I can only say that on this coccasion (and some others) their well-meaning liberality has gotten the better of them but it is not the first time that their efforts to protect the 'innocent' has gone off the rails. Sorry Amnesty, you have got this so totally wong. Shame on you. I think the ideologists amongst you now have the upper hand. I could have accepted this statement if it had been equally critical of both sides and then made a clear statement about the person who started all of this.

[bushke]

The fact is that women, children have been killed by the Thai army. I doubt that that 10 year old was shooting grenades at the army. Even reporters from The Nation have reported seeing a women shot in the head while she was overlooking the riots.

Red cross helper get shot and killed. This is not even suppose to happen in a war zone.

These are things that are not excusable. Ok the people are stupid for walking around in these areas. But a child is a child and a women is a women. Not so difficult to see by the army soldiers or snipers.

Seh Daeng Killed by a sniper bullet...

He may have not be a decent person but if an army sniper shot him i would call this excessive force no?

3 reporters where shot! How many time do you hear this in other conflicts?

Ok innocent people will always get hurt in these situations.

Amnesty International is a widely respected organisation.

Some people should look at the whole picture in stead of being yellow, red, pink or what ever color. There has been a staggering amount of deaths and casualty. While some might have been necessary many where not.

We are all human being imagine one of your family members being one of the victims.

[StevieH]

absolutely pointless attempting to discuss and explain then? that one of the parties involved is an official government bound by international laws and rules and supposedly committed to responsible governance of its people while the other is an unelected gang of hotheads not subject to international laws?

sheesh.

regardless that you clearly support the government side, this article is about them breaking the law using live fire. Are you saying you support the shooting of unarmed protesters ? Whether or not they are a gang of hotheads is personal opinion but considering TV images regularly show protesters using sling shots against army using bullets I think amnesty have a valid point.

Why are so many people on here so one sidely supporting violence and death ? Personally I'd prefer to see the government stop aimlessly calling everyone terrorists and actually try to sort these long standing issues out. Guns just aren't going to do that

i think you need to read my posts again. i'm not on anyone's 'side' in this other than that of as peaceful a resolution as can be as soon as possible. amnesty rightly points out that the government of thailand is breaching international human rights laws by firing live rounds on unarmed civilians, a crime in any country on earth.

this doesn't get solved using violence any which way and whoever is holding the guns. it needs UN intervention and diplomacy immediately.

I agree, army has to step back and the red shirt have to unarm themselves too.

only way out of this now. reds won't back down to government demands to disarm as they don't trust them = government incapable of defusing the situation = get UN in as arbitrator.

think the thai government is too proud or stubborn to take this obvious step at present though.

[mahjongguy]

Two guys go into a mini-mart. One has a gun, and kills the cashier. Per U.S. law, both robbers are charged with murder in the first degree.

Participating in a criminal act along with others who are armed is legally equal to being armed. The responsibility for injuries and death inflicted are shared equally by all who participate.

[dukkha]

"Eyewitness accounts and video recordings show clearly that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Amnesty's Thailand specialist Benjamin Zawacki.

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

You make my hero Gerald Manley Hopkins, British Poet who was big on onomatopeia, look tame you cheekee wordsmith.

[CHdiver]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

AS a previous member of Amnesty International Secretariat staff, I know the organisation and its values well. I can only say that on this coccasion (and some others) their well-meaning liberality has gotten the better of them but it is not the first time that their efforts to protect the 'innocent' has gone off the rails. Sorry Amnesty, you have got this so totally wong. Shame on you. I think the ideologists amongst you now have the upper hand. I could have accepted this statement if it had been equally critical of both sides and then made a clear statement about the person who started all of this.

Well written ianf, that would have made much more sense.

[jucel]

Two guys go into a mini-mart. One has a gun, and kills the cashier. Per U.S. law, both robbers are charged with murder in the first degree.

Participating in a criminal act along with others who are armed is legally equal to being armed. The responsibility for injuries and death inflicted are shared equally by all who participate.

And the U.S. Law System let O.J. Simpson off the hook!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[citizen33]

Human Rights Watch said the same thing in a press statement on May 15th.

http://www.hrw.org/

There is already enough publicly available film to show that breaches of the UN Principles on the use of force have been occurring. Thailand signed up to that agreement and many will argue that a signed treaty is legally binding. Thus I would expect the issue of legality to start featuring in the international commentary soon.

[Capealava]

Oh, these rioters are well armed! Easy to say that when your feet are standing in London.

The live fire zone has warning posted everywhere. as with other public warning signs, if you proceed then.........!!!

Please explain why over 50 protesters have been killed by rifle fire and only one Army person has been killed, if the Red shirts are so well armed. And of course you are the final say about Amnesty international. I am sick of these purely unsubstantiated posts. All you show is your predjuices and your personal biases.

So many of the post on this situation in Thailand by ex-pats or other foreigners in Thaivisa disappoint me. To understand the situation in Thailand now you all need Thailand history course. Most of you are only concerned about your personal needs, rather it be my next beer, or your business.

[moo9]

Sometimes AI seems to be a melting pot of outdated communists.

Most of the anglo-american coverage of the situation is biased. Seems like people reporting for them do not overlook the whole scope of this story and the root causes.

Nobody like the Army in this, but .. what else to do?

One can only blame the government for acting to late.

[rhino533]

Official press release from Amnesty:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=...2010〈=e

Related article:

Associated Press (AP): "Thai protests expose military rifts, incompetence"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37203123/ns/wo...ws-asiapacific/

Excellent, this will begin the process of bringing to trial those civilian leaders responsible - primarily Abhisit, & Suthep - for the massacre of largely unarmed civilians we have just witnessed. If not eventually in Thailand following a change of Government, then perhaps at the Hague.

The next Government will also need to investigate (perhaps using international investigators & accountants for the sake of impartiality) corruption in key ministries, and the improper granting of contracts to companies connected to prominent coalition politicians. Again trials of those presiding over this corruption as well as those specifically involved should begin once the evidence emerges - asset seizure would seem an appropriate partial punishment of those found guilty.

Come on get you head on straight. Your in Dream land!! How can you blame Abhisit for the SH**. If the reds would of just waited for the regular elections to happen none of this would of happened. The protests are clearly the reason for the unrest/violence and the Gov is finally dealing with it how they should of a long time ago. The red leaders should and will be delt with not Abbhisit/Suthep. Red leaders including Taksin, Black shirts = Terrorists in my mind. I just feel bad for the mislead red protesters. They have been poisoned with words and money. Every death should be blamed on the red leaders not the Gov what so ever! The reds can't even control there own mob and they never take resposability for anything they do, its always the govs fault. It's just all to crazy!

[pontius]

Am- nasty - International - bunch of pencil neck self serving servants and do-good oxygen bandits trying to justify their enormous drain on donated funds and handouts for themselves. Maybe we can offer them to the reds as human shields!

I couldn't possibly agree more.

Two guys go into a mini-mart. One has a gun, and kills the cashier. Per U.S. law, both robbers are charged with murder in the first degree.

Participating in a criminal act along with others who are armed is legally equal to being armed. The responsibility for injuries and death inflicted are shared equally by all who participate.

So what's your point, this is Thailand.

[StevieH]

Two guys go into a mini-mart. One has a gun, and kills the cashier. Per U.S. law, both robbers are charged with murder in the first degree.

Participating in a criminal act along with others who are armed is legally equal to being armed. The responsibility for injuries and death inflicted are shared equally by all who participate.

were either or both of the two guys in the mini-mart elected governments of sovereign nations with remits to protect their people and their people's interests in line with UN and international laws?

if not your analogy is a bit shit really isn't it?

[IADR]

The army are violating human rights.... what about the Reds who are violating the rights of the public who wish to earn a living in the areas they have shut down for 2 months or the public who wish to visit these areas, less the tourists who wish to stay in hotels free from the worry of being shot. Put simply, if the Reds were not there, would this be going on? How come AI have not mentioned this?

I agree the Reds have the right to protest, but they do not have the right to disrupt other peoples' lives, do they Perhaps if reported the full story, organisations such as AI may be in a better to pass judgement?

[Shah Jahan]

This "report" has nothing to do with anything expect that Thaksin paid alot of money to Robert Amsterdam to stir up this sort of propaganda

http://www.robertamsterdam.com/

(hint if you ever need world propaganda fed to international sources, he is your goto man)

I definitely would never support the reds or thaksin/mob violence, but the current government is incompetent as well

me thinks both need to go.

[bushke]

I definitely would never support the reds or thaksin/mob violence, but the current government is incompetent as well

me thinks both need to go.

Me thinks also but the problem is there is nobody competent

[asiawatcher]

absolutely pointless attempting to discuss and explain then? that one of the parties involved is an official government bound by international laws and rules and supposedly committed to responsible governance of its people while the other is an unelected gang of hotheads not subject to international laws?

sheesh.

regardless that you clearly support the government side, this article is about them breaking the law using live fire. Are you saying you support the shooting of unarmed protesters ? Whether or not they are a gang of hotheads is personal opinion but considering TV images regularly show protesters using sling shots against army using bullets I think amnesty have a valid point.

Why are so many people on here so one sidely supporting violence and death ? Personally I'd prefer to see the government stop aimlessly calling everyone terrorists and actually try to sort these long standing issues out. Guns just aren't going to do that

You are very misguided when you say the Govt is breaking the law. Far from it. These 'unarmed protestors' are also more heavily armed than shown - take a walk on the wild side and open your eyes! Army was first mobilised armed with rubber bullets and batons and were met by live ammunition, M79's and molotov cocktails as well as marbles from slingshots etc. A retaliation was not even contemplated until the 'whoever', started shooting all and sundry! Then the protestors have been repeatedly warned, given deadlines and now are holding a city to ransom! They have refused to obey any law (they are the ones breaking the law - despite being given the leeway of being allowed to protest 'peacefully' and now they have fueled fires with petrol and tyres, commandeered vehicles, trashed them, burned them, used vehicles as weapons and have now started looting, been caught on camera showing snipers (yes army as well now) and well armed. So perhaps before making such wild statements about unarmed protestors you should at least take an informed assessment. Then perhaps people would recognise intelligence rather than assumptions (the mother of all f**kups). The army and govt has now mobilised to uphold law and order so if you have a problem with that - go join Amnesty International or one of the other lame scam organisations - you would fit in perfectly!

[StevieH]

The army are violating human rights.... what about the Reds who are violating the rights of the public who wish to earn a living in the areas they have shut down for 2 months or the public who wish to visit these areas, less the tourists who wish to stay in hotels free from the worry of being shot. Put simply, if the Reds were not there, would this be going on? How come AI have not mentioned this?

I agree the Reds have the right to protest, but they do not have the right to disrupt other peoples' lives, do they Perhaps if reported the full story, organisations such as AI may be in a better to pass judgement?

ok, again slowly for the kids at the back - it is because the redshirt protestors / agitators / anarchists are not an elected nation state government which is bound by international human rights laws.

of course what the reds are doing is wrong and in breach of thai law - however what the elected thai government is doing in response is in breach of international human right's laws and is a different issue.

[StevieH]

absolutely pointless attempting to discuss and explain then? that one of the parties involved is an official government bound by international laws and rules and supposedly committed to responsible governance of its people while the other is an unelected gang of hotheads not subject to international laws?

sheesh.

regardless that you clearly support the government side, this article is about them breaking the law using live fire. Are you saying you support the shooting of unarmed protesters ? Whether or not they are a gang of hotheads is personal opinion but considering TV images regularly show protesters using sling shots against army using bullets I think amnesty have a valid point.

Why are so many people on here so one sidely supporting violence and death ? Personally I'd prefer to see the government stop aimlessly calling everyone terrorists and actually try to sort these long standing issues out. Guns just aren't going to do that

You are very misguided when you say the Govt is breaking the law. Far from it. These 'unarmed protestors' are also more heavily armed than shown - take a walk on the wild side and open your eyes! Army was first mobilised armed with rubber bullets and batons and were met by live ammunition, M79's and molotov cocktails as well as marbles from slingshots etc. A retaliation was not even contemplated until the 'whoever', started shooting all and sundry! Then the protestors have been repeatedly warned, given deadlines and now are holding a city to ransom! They have refused to obey any law (they are the ones breaking the law - despite being given the leeway of being allowed to protest 'peacefully' and now they have fueled fires with petrol and tyres, commandeered vehicles, trashed them, burned them, used vehicles as weapons and have now started looting, been caught on camera showing snipers (yes army as well now) and well armed. So perhaps before making such wild statements about unarmed protestors you should at least take an informed assessment. Then perhaps people would recognise intelligence rather than assumptions (the mother of all f**kups). The army and govt has now mobilised to uphold law and order so if you have a problem with that - go join Amnesty International or one of the other lame scam organisations - you would fit in perfectly!

OK, again in big letters. NOT ALL the protestors are armed. SOME of them are. if a nation's army is shooting live rounds indiscriminately into an area where there are SOME UNARMED CIVILIANS PROTESTING PEACEFULLY irrespective of how many other people in there are actually ARMED it breaks international human right's laws. getting it yet?

[hyperdimension]

There has been a staggering amount of deaths and casualty.

Staggering? If the army did not exercise so much restraint, I think there would be hundreds more deaths by now. They are still firing only single shots aren't they, and not automatic?

The protesters should simply go home, as they have way overstayed their welcome (if you could call it "welcome").

[Shah Jahan]

however what the elected thai government is doing in response is in breach of international human right's laws and is a different issue.

can you name one elected government that doesnt daily breech "international human rights law"

its just a bullshit buzz-word as far as I am concerned.

its just that the "big guys" in the west are slightly smarter than thailands govemerment and cover their bases and tracks better.

Tanksins group is clever like a fox, but unfortually just sick and evil. The ideal thai goverment would have that cleverness but perhaps combined with a little wisdom of the balance of Heaven and Earth.

[clockworkorange]

Abhisit is delusional, and on very thin ice. In his unabating preaching about restoring the rule of law, he has forgotten all about the rules of international law. You don't indiscriminately fire live ammo at unarmed civilians, and you don't declare city streets that are still inhabited by ciivilians as free fire zones.

Unless Abhisit realises the error of his ways, and sits down to talk serious compromise, he could end up joining the ranks of war criminals lined up for trial at the Hague.

[StevieH]

however what the elected thai government is doing in response is in breach of international human right's laws and is a different issue.

can you name one elected government that doesnt daily breech "international human rights law"

its just a bullshit buzz-word as far as I am concerned.

its just that the "big guys" in the west are slightly smarter than thailands govemerment and cover their bases and tracks better.

Tanksins group is clever like a fox, but unfortually just sick and evil. The ideal thai goverment would have that cleverness but perhaps combined with a little wisdom of the balance of Heaven and Earth.

well it's lucky you're not the UN secretary general then isn't it?

there are so many shades of grey to a situation like this, or indeed in any other country, where innocent civilians get caught up in things with and tarred with the same brush as those you call 'sick and evil'.

[pontius]

Abhisit is delusional, and on very thin ice. In his unabating preaching about restoring the rule of law, he has forgotten all about the rules of international law. You don't indiscriminately fire live ammo at unarmed civilians, and you don't declare city streets that are still inhabited by ciivilians as free fire zones.

Unless Abhisit realises the error of his ways, and sits down to talk serious compromise, he could end up joining the ranks of war criminals lined up for trial at the Hague.

You seemed like a chap with a brain, sorry to see that you're obviously not. Blaming Abhisit for the escalade is like blaming the shit that is stuck on your shoe.

[bangkokjohn]

Poor Abhist! No more Oxford reunions. Used to be toast of the town in London, now war criminal. Shame really.

Edited May 18, 2010 by bangkokjohn

[rogerx007]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

AS a previous member of Amnesty International Secretariat staff, I know the organisation and its values well. I can only say that on this coccasion (and some others) their well-meaning liberality has gotten the better of them but it is not the first time that their efforts to protect the 'innocent' has gone off the rails. Sorry Amnesty, you have got this so totally wong. Shame on you. I think the ideologists amongst you now have the upper hand. I could have accepted this statement if it had been equally critical of both sides and then made a clear statement about the person who started all of this.

As a previous President of USA I would like to share that weather is awesome in phuket, beer is chilled and women are hot...

[Nignoy]

Official press release from Amnesty:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=...2010〈=e

Related article:

Associated Press (AP): "Thai protests expose military rifts, incompetence"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37203123/ns/wo...ws-asiapacific/

Excellent, this will begin the process of bringing to trial those civilian leaders responsible - primarily Abhisit, & Suthep - for the massacre of largely unarmed civilians we have just witnessed. If not eventually in Thailand following a change of Government, then perhaps at the Hague.

The next Government will also need to investigate (perhaps using international investigators & accountants for the sake of impartiality) corruption in key ministries, and the improper granting of contracts to companies connected to prominent coalition politicians. Again trials of those presiding over this corruption as well as those specifically involved should begin once the evidence emerges - asset seizure would seem an appropriate partial punishment of those found guilty.

Why not just ask mr thaksin to call off his vendetta against the present government, he stays safely out of the way pulling the strings, the redshirts have gone too far to back down , no country is going to stand by and let protesters bring everything to a standstill.Picture this!! palestinians demonstrating on the streets of Tel Avi, guaranteed the army and police would go in guns blazing and the world especially AI would do nothing!!

[rogerx007]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

AS a previous member of Amnesty International Secretariat staff, I know the organisation and its values well. I can only say that on this coccasion (and some others) their well-meaning liberality has gotten the better of them but it is not the first time that their efforts to protect the 'innocent' has gone off the rails. Sorry Amnesty, you have got this so totally wong. Shame on you. I think the ideologists amongst you now have the upper hand. I could have accepted this statement if it had been equally critical of both sides and then made a clear statement about the person who started all of this.

As a previous President of USA I would like to share that weather is awesome in phuket, beer is chilled and women are hot...

[TAWP]

Who it was that supplied them with the flawed info: http://www.facebook.com/robert.amsterdam