Battle In Bangkok - This Is No Peasant's Revolt

[KMUTT]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think we'll see a big unrest coming in November, when the elections are supposed to be held. The government did a great job publicizing that they will be holding elections in November, but a lousy job in publicizing that they were called off. In fact, if I remember right, only one of the ministers said that Abhisit had called off the election and it didn't even make headlines in most Thai newspapers. Most Thais I know, weren't even aware that the elections had been canceled, so this will add to the "broken promises" when November comes.

Gross distortion. The November election was a proposal, not a promise. It hinged on acceptance by the Reds leadership. They initially accepted the conditions, but later recanted and refused them. Their backing down led to the offer being rescinded. An offer was refused and then the offer was taken back. That's entirely normal and expected in any negotiation. Most Thais I know understood that and didn't see anything unusual about the unaccepted offer being taken off the table. What sort of Thais do you know?

Edited May 20, 2010 by KMUTT

[xenomorph]

According to Arisman on this video, his list of targets for burning are:

Siriraj Hospital, All Muslim Mosques, Government House, Important Ministries, Airports, Rajavithi Road, Bridges, Bank of Thailand, Commercial Banks, Military Barracks, Court of Justice, and NGO's

will all be destroyed....

"Not one of these will remain standing."

And there you have it the smell, or should I say stench of red democracy. These guys are totalitarian through and through, you can spot the scapegoating a mile off. Their myopic followers seem to fail to realize that totalitarian rule means out with the old rich, in with the new, everyone else becomes poorer and loses their human rights too.

How does Arisman think the Muslims of Thailand would respond to these sorts of threats to burn down all mosques?

How does Arisman think the the followers of the two VIP's at Siriraj Hospital would respond to these sorts of threats to burn it down?

etc.

etc.

He's a lunatic and at the very core table of the Reds leadership.

It's a very good thing he's at least been taken off the streets.

Agreed. But IMHO all the so called leaders are lunatics. Evidently they were never exposed to history. Fire up a crowd daily with hate speeches for two months and you create a monster feeding on itself. Knowing all the time you are lying to them and if the going gets tough you will abandon them.

But then again...

The real truth behind this whole red-shirt movement wasn't to help the poor. It was just a deceive campaign to tople the government and help Thaksin back to power, plus giving the red-shirt leaders the privileged seats in the government so they can continue to get rich by the very same corruption they practiced during Thaksin's golden days. That's the whole truth behind this movement.

It's rather amusing to see all the pro red-shirts here in TV that still doesn't realize that they have been deceived and still believes that this movement had to do with helping the poor. Their arguments still circles around the red-shirt propaganda; Government wasn't elected, the poor have been suppressed and badly treated, and so on...

All the arguments I see from those posters in here, is exactly the very same propaganda the red-shirt leaders have been filling the low educated poor with. This situation is in reality a pure disaster for the poor. They have now been both fooled and turned into losers.

.

[Jai Dee]

Some racist remarks (and replies) have been deleted from this topic.

Any more, and the offender(s) will have their posting rights revoked and/or will be suspended from the forum.

[Steely Dan]

Some racist remarks (and replies) have been deleted from this topic.

Any more, and the offender(s) will have their posting rights revoked and/or will be suspended from the forum.

Thanks for deleting so quickly, I should have just reported them instead of replying. Out of a matter of interest does Thailand have any laws covering incitement to racial hatred? I suppose not.

[BlackJack]

Puea Thai Party MP Jatuporn Prompan, one of the core leaders of the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) has vowed to turn himself in to the police on 27 May 2010.

After being released due to his political rights, Puea Thai Party MP Jatuporn Prompan stated that he would submit to charges against him on 27 May according to Director-General of the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) Tarit Pengdit.

OH <deleted> - these guys just went around inciting their group to burn BKK and now one of them gets to walk free until he "Promises" to turn himself in... I had hoped that this incident would finally give this government the balls to get tough with those that promote violence but seems i was just day dreaming. SAD SAD SAD

In the meantime could someone publish the address of his rat hole?

From his official Parliament MP web page:

PUEA THAI PARTY

FULL NAME Mr. JATUPORN PROMPAN

DATE OF BIRTH 5 October B.E. 2508 (1965)

EDUCATION B.A. (Political Science) : Government

ADDRESS 99/92 Moo 4 Vista Park Village,

Soi Watcharaphon, Watcharaphon Road,

Tambon Khlong Thanon, Khet Sai Mai,

Bangkok 10220

OCCUPATION Businessman

http://mp.parliament.go.th/Biographical/Fr...g5ONTqw5U7wqA==

His name has been changed to fodder

[jdinasia]

Ferd is on the rampage to blame anyone but Thaksin and the Reds.....

In his post you quoted he seems to have forgotten that the terms he uses to describe people apply to most of the red leadership and almost all of the red backers.

Past the surface claims this has NOTHING to do with democracy and is just one group of 'elite' fighting another. Sadly Abhisit is stuck in the middle trying to do some good! (Not that he couldn't be labeled as "elite" but he actually is going against the interests of the super wealthy and 'elite' with many of his issues to diminish poverty in Thailand

Edited May 20, 2010 by jdinasia

[UtopiaFlorida]

CNN.doc Zeze Na Pombejra: Open Letter to CNN International

Dear Sirs/Madams,

Recently, CNN Thailand Correspondents Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider have made me seriously reconsider your agency as a source for reliable and accurate unbiased news. As of this writing, over thousands of CNN's viewers have already begun to question the accuracy and dependability of its reporting as regards events in Afghanistan, Haiti, Iraq, Iran, etc., in addition to Bangkok.

เร็วๆนี้ ผู้สื่อข่าว CNN ประจำ ประเทศไทย แดน ริเวอร์ และ ซาร่าห์ ซไนเดอร์ ทำให้ดิฉันต้องกลับมาพิจารณาอย่างจริงจังว่าข่าวของสำนักข่าวของคุณเป็น แหล่งข่าวที่เชื่อถือได้ มีความถูกต้อง และไม่เอนเอียงไปข้างใดข้างหนึ่งหรือไม่ ในขณะที่ดิฉันกำลังเขียนจดหมายฉบับนี้ มีผู้เสพข่าวของ CNN กำลัง ตั้งคำถามถึงความแม่นยำและแหล่งข่าวในการนำเสนอเหตุการณืที่เกิดขึ้นใน อาฟกานิสสถาน ไฮติ อิรัก อิหร่าน เป็นต้น .. เพิ่มเติมจากการเสนอข่าวในกรุงเทพมหานคร

As a first-rate global news agency, CNN has an inherent professional duty to deliver all sides of the truth to the global public who have faithfully and sincerely placed their trust and reliance in you. Your news network, by its longtime transnational presence and extensive reach, has been put in a position of trust and care; CNN's journalists, reporters, and researchers have a collective responsibility to follow the journalist's code and ethics to deliver and present facts from all facets of the story, not merely one-sided, shallow and sensational half-truths. The magnitude of harm or potential extent of damage that erroneous and fallacious news reporting can cause to (and exacerbate), not only a country's internal state of affairs, economic well-being, and general international perception, but also the real lives and livelihood of the innocent and voiceless people of that nation, is enormous. CNN should not negligently discard its duty of care to the international populace by reporting single-sided or unverified facts and distorted truths drawn from superficial research, or display/distribute biased images which capture only one side of the actual event.

ในฐานะที่เป็นสำนัก ข่าวชั้นนำของโลก CNN มีหน่าที่ในการเสนอข่าวอย่างรอบด้าน บนพื้นฐานของความจริงต่อประชาชนทั่วโลกที่ให้ความไว้วางใจอย่างสุจริต ต่อการเสนอข่าวของสำนักข่าวของท่าน เครือข่ายข่าวนานาชาติของท่านยังดำรงอยู่และเข้าถึงอย่างกว้างขวางโดยพื้น ฐานของการนำเสนออย่างระมัดระวังและไว้ใจได้มาอย่างยาวนาน ; นักข่าว ผู้สื่อข่าว และผู้ที่ทำการวิจัยข้อมูลของ CNN ต้องมีความรับผิดชอบในการปฏิบัติตนตามมาตรฐานการปฏิบัติและ จริยธรรมของผู้สื่อข่าว ในอันที่จะนำเสนอเรื่องราวและข้อเท็จจริงรอบด้าน ไม่ใช่การนำเสนอข่าวด้านเดียว ที่ตื้นเขิน และความจริงเพียงครึ่งเดียว ความเสียหายและโอกาสที่จะเกิดความเสียหายที่ร้ายแรงจากความเข้าใจผิดหรือการ รับรู้ที่ไม่ถูกต้องอาจจะเกิดขึ้นได้ (และถูกทำให้แย่ลง) ไม่เพียงแค่ในส่วนที่เกี่ยวกับกิจการภายในของ ประเทศ ภาวะเศรษฐกิจ และภาพลักษณ์ต่อประชาคมโลกเท่านั้น แต่ยังรวมถึงชีวิตความเป็นอยู่จริงๆของผู้คนที่ไม่รู้อิโหน่อิเหน่และไม่มี ปากเสียงของประเทศนั้นๆด้วย นี่เป็นเรื่องที่ใหญ่โต CNN ไม่ควรจะ เพิกเฉยและละเลยหน้าที่ที่ต้องใช้ความระมัดระวังในในการนำเสนอข่าวเพียงด้าน เดียวในประชาคมโลก หรือการที่ไม่ตรวจสอบยืนยันความถูกต้องของข่าว และแม้แต่การบิดเบือนข้อเท็จจริงที่นำมาจากการการวิจัยอย่างคร่าวๆ ผิวๆเผินๆ หรือการนำเสนอ/แจกจ่ายรูปภาพที่เอนเอียงไปด้านใดด้านหนึ่งของความ จริงทั้งหมดในภาพรวม

Mr. Rivers and Ms. Snider have NOT done their best under these life-threatening circumstances because many other foreign correspondents have done better. All of Mr. Rivers and Ms. Sniders' quotes and statements seem to have been solely taken from the anti-government protest leaders or their followers/sympathizers. Yet, all details about the government's position have come from secondary resources. No direct interviews with government officials have been shown; no interviews or witness statements from ordinary Bangkok residents or civilians unaffiliated with the protesters, particularly those who have been harassed by or suffered at the hands of the protesters, have been circulated.

คุณริ เวอร์ และคุณ ซไนเดอร์ ไม่ได้ทำหน้าที่อย่างดีที่สุดภายใต้ภาวะที่อาจจะเกิดการคุกคามชีวิต เพราะผู้สื่อข่าวของสำนักข่าวอื่นๆทำหน้าที่ได้ดีกว่านี้ ทุกสิ่งที่คุณริเวอร์และคุณซไนเดอร์กล่าวถึงและเขียนถึง ล้วนแต่เป็นเรื่องที่นำมาจากแกนนำของกลุ่มผู้ประท้วงต่อต้าน หรือผู้ชุมนุมที่ฟูมฟายรียกร้องความเห็นอกเห็นใจ ดังนั้น รายละเอียดทั้งหมดที่เกี่ยวกับทางฝ่ายรัฐบาลล้วนได้มาจากแหล่งข่าวรองๆทั้ง สิ้น ยังไม่ปรากฏว่ามีการเข้าไปสัมภาษณ์เจ้าหน้าที่ฝ่ายรัฐโดยตรง หรือการเข้าไปรับทราบการรายงานจากประชาชนที่อาศัยอยู่ในเขตกรุงเทพมหานคร และผู้ที่ไม่เกี่ยวข้องการการชุมนุมประท้วง โดยเฉพาะอย่างยิ่งผู้ซึ่งถูกคุกคามและต้องทนทุกข์จากการกระทำของกลุ่มผู้ ประท้วง แล้วนำมารายงานข่าว

Why the discrepancy in source of information? Why the failure to report all of the government's previous numerous attempts to negotiate or invitations for protesters to go home? Why no broadcasts shown of the myriad ways the red protesters have terrorized and harmed innocent civilians by burning their shops, enclosing burning tyres around apartment buildings, shooting glass marbles at civilians from high altitudes, attacking civilians in their cars, and worst of all, obstructing paramedics and ambulances carrying civilians injured by M79 grenade blasts during the Silom incident of April 24, 2010, thereby resulting in the sole civilian casualty? The entire timeline of events that have forced the government to take this difficult stance has been hugely and callously ignored in deference to the red 'underdogs'.

ทำไมจึงมีความแตกต่าง ในการนำเสนอข่าว (สองมาตรฐาน – ผู้แปล) ทำไมจึงไม่มีการรายงานข่าวความพยายามหลายๆครั้งของ ทางฝ่ายรัฐบาลที่จะเจรจาหรือเชิญผู้ชุมชุมให้กลับบ้าน ทำไมจึงไม่มีการรายงานวิธีการมากมายหลายอย่างที่เลวร้ายน่ากลัวที่กลุ่มผู้ ประท้วงได้กระทำและเป็นอันตรายต่อประชาชนผู้บริสุทธิ์ ด้วยการเผาทำลายร้านค้า การเผายางรถยนต์รอบๆตึกอพาร์ทเม้นท์ ยิงลูกแก้วเข้าสู่ประชาชนจากที่สูง ทำร้ายประชาชนในรถยนต์ และที่เลวร้ายที่สุดก็คือกีดขวางเจ้าหน้ราที่ทางการแพทย์และรถพยาบาลที่ กำลังลำเลียงผู้ได้รับบาดเจ็บจากกรณีการยิงระเบิด เอ็ม 79 ในพื้นที่การ ปะทะที่ถนนสีลมเมื่อวันที่ 24 เมษายน 2010 ซึ่งทำให้เกิดการสูญเสียชีวิตของ ประชาชน เหตุการณ์ที่เกิดขึ้นเป็นลำดับได้บีบบังคับให้ทางฝ่ายรัฐบาลต้องอยู่ในฐานะ ที่ยากลำบากที่จะต้องเมินต่อกลุ่มคนเสื้อแดง

Mr. Rivers and Ms. Snider's choice of sensational vocabulary and terminology in every newscast or news report, and choice of images to broadcast, has resulted in law-abiding soldiers and the heavily-pressured Thai government being painted in a negative, harsh, and oppressive light, whereas the genuinely violent and law-breaking arm of the anti-government protesters - who are directly responsible for overt acts of aggression not only against armed soldiers but also against helpless, unarmed civilians and law-abiding apolitical residents of this once blooming metropolis (and whose actions under American law would by now be classified as terrorist activities) – are portrayed as righteous freedom fighters deserving of worldwide sympathy and support. This has mislead the various international Human Rights watchdogs to believe the Thai government are sending trigger-happy soldiers out to ruthlessly murder unarmed civilians without just cause.

สิ่งที่คุณริเวอร์และ คุณซไนเดอร์เลือกใช้ไม่ว่าจะเป็นภาษา คำศัพท์ หรือภาพที่กินใจในการนำเสนอข่าว ล้วนเป็นเรื่องของทหารที่ปฏิบัติตนตามกฎหมายและอยู่ภายใต้ภาวะกดดันอย่างสูง ฝ่ายรัฐบาลได้รับการป้ายสี วาดภาพในด้านลบ หยาบกระด้าง และปกครองอย่างกดขี่ ในขณะที่พวกที่มีความรุนแรงที่แท้จริงและละเมิดกฎหมายของกลุ่มคนที่ประท้วง รัฐบาล ผู้ซึ่งจะต้องรับผิดชอบอย่างแท้จริงต่อการกระทำที่เกินเลยและก้าวร้าว ไม่เพียงกระทำต่อทหารที่มีอาวุธเท่านั้น แต่ยังรวมถึงประชาชนที่สิ้นหวัง ปราศจากอาวุธ ผู้ที่ปฏิบัติตนภายใต้กฎหมาย และประชาชนที่อาศัยอยู่ในเขตที่ครั้งหนึ่งเป็นเขตที่รุ่งเรืองของมหานครแห่ง นี้ (ซึ่งการปฏิบัติตนเช่นที่กล่าวมานี้ หากเป็นกฎหมายของอเมริกา จะถูกจัดเป็นกลี่มผู้ก่อการร้ายทันที) – แต่คนกลุ่มนั้นกลับปฏิบัติตนเสมือนว่ามีอิสระที่จะต่อสู่ และได้รับความเห็นใจและการสนับสนุนจากประชาคมโลก นี่เป็นการทำให้เกิดความเข้าใจที่ผิดๆในกลุ่มพิทักษ์สิทธิมนุษยชนระหว่าง ประเทศ ซึ่งเข้าใจว่ารัฐบาลไทยกำลังส่งทหารที่มีอาวุธเข้าไปเข่นฆ่าประชาชนโดยไม่มี เหตุอันควร

As a current resident of "war zone" Bangkok who has experienced the effect of the Red protests first hand and is living in a state of constant terror and anxiety as to whether her family, friends, and home would get bombed or attacked by the hardcore anti-government vigilantes/paramilitary forces - I appeal to CNN's professional integrity to critically investigate and scrutinize the misinformed news reporting of your above-named correspondents. If they are incapable of obtaining genuine, authentic facts from any other source except the Red Protest leaders and red-sympathizing Thai translators or acquaintances, or from fellow non-Thai-speaking journalists who are similarly ignorant of Thai language, culture, history, and society, then perhaps CNN should consider reassigning field correspondents to Thailand.

ในฐานะที่เป็นผู้ที่ อาศัยอยู่ใน "เขตสงคราม" ของกรุงเทพ และมีประสบการณ์ตรงที่ได้รับผลกระทบจากกลุ่มผู้ประท้วงเสื้อแดงที่มีการข่ม ขู่อย่างต่อเนื่อง เรามีความกังวลว่าครอบครัวของเรา เพื่อนฝูง และบ้านเรือนของเราจะถูกระเบิดหรือถูกโจมตีจากกลุ่มหัวรุนแรงของกลุ่มคนที่ ต่อต้านรัฐบาล กองกำลังต่างๆ – ดิฉันอยากจะขอร้องให้ CNN ใช้จริยธรรมของวิชาชีพในการตรวจ สอบอย่างถี่ถ้วนละพินิจพิเคราะห์ข่าวที่บิดเบือนจกการนำเสนอโดยผู้สื่อข่าว ที่ได้พูดถึงข้างต้น หากพวกเขาไม่มีความสามารถในการหาข่าวที่เป็นจริงจากแหล่งข่าวอื่นๆนอกเหนือ ไปจากแกนนำคนเสื้อแดงและคนแปลที่เห็นอกเห็นใจฝ่ายเสื้อแดง หรือจากนักข่าวที่ไม่สามารถพูดภาษาไทยได้ ไม่รู้เรื่องวัฒนธรรม เมินเฉยต่อประวัติศาสตร์ และสภาวะทางสังคม และหากเป็นเช่นนั้นจริงๆ CNN น่าจะหาผู้ สื่อข่าวคนอื่นเข้ามาทำข่าวในประเทศไทย

I implore and urge you to please take serious action to correct or reverse the grave injustice that has been done to the Thai nation, her government, and the majority of law-abiding Thai citizens and expatriate residents by having endorsed and widely circulated poorly researched and misrepresented news coverage of the current ongoing political unrest and escalating violence in Thailand.

ดิฉัน ขออ้อนวอนและขอให้สำนักข่าวของท่านลงมือทำอย่างใดอย่างหนึ่งอย่างจริงจัง เพื่อแก้ไขความอยุติธรรมที่เกิดขึ้นกับประเทศไทย กับรัฐบาลไทย และประชาชนคนไทยส่วนใหญ่ซึ่งเป็นผู้ที่เคารพกฎหมาย รวมถึงชาวต่างชาติที่อาศัยอยู่ที่นี่ โดยการรายงานข่าวและงานวิจัยแย่ๆ ซึ่งไม่ใช่ข้อเท็จจริงของสถานการณ์ไม่สงบที่เกิดขึ้น รวมถึงการรายงานความรุนแรงที่เกิดขึ้นจนเกินเลยเกินความเป็นจริง

Copies of this open letter have also been distributed to other local as well as international news media and social networks for public information. Please feel free to contact me further should you require any additional concrete and reputable evidence in substantiation and corroboration of my complaints and claims stated hereinabove.

สำเนา ของจดหมายเปิดผนึกฉบับนี้จะมีการแจกจ่ายในประเทศไทย และในประชาคมโลก รวมถึงในเครือข่ายสังคมออนไลน์เพื่อเป็นข้อมูลให้กับคนทั่วไป กรุณาติดต่อดิฉันได้ทุกเมื่อหากท่านต้องการข้อมูลเฉพาะเพิ่มเติม หรือหลักฐานที่เชื่อถือได้ ที่เกี่ยวข้องกับเนื้อความที่ดิฉันเขียนมาทั้งหมดข้างต้น

Thank you.

Yours faithfully,

Napas Na Pombejra, B.A., LL.B. (Lond.)

Bangkok, Thailand

May 17, 2010

Addendum

Enclosed herewith for your attention and information some examples of other quality international news bulletins by respectable foreign journalists so you may assess at your leisure the sub-par quality and misleading nature of Mr. Rivers and Ms. Sniders' journalism:

พร้อม จดหมายฉบับนี้ ดิฉันได้แนบตัวอย่างข้อมูลจากสำนักข่าวระหว่างประเทศที่มีคุณภาพดี ที่รายงานโดยผู้สื่อข่าวต่างประเทศที่น่านับถือ เพื่อเป็นข้อมูลให้ท่านได้พิจารณาประเมินข่าวที่ต่ำกว่ามาตรฐานและบิดเบือน ของสำนักข่าวของท่านที่รายงานโดยคุณริเวอร์ และคุณซไนเดอร์

1. New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/16/world/asia/16thai.html

2. Fox News/Associated Press:

(i) http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/16/ch...ackdown-killed/

(ii) http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/17/th...haos-continues/

3. Global Post: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/thailan...rotests-bangkok

4. NHK: http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/17_15.html

5. Al Jazeera: http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/li...1540981286.html

6. Deutsche Welle (English media in Germany):

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5575254,00.html

7. Local English daily newspaper's chronology of events on Day 3 of "War in Bangkok":

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...n-30129533.html

Youtube Videos, images, articles showing what CNN has failed to circulate:

1.

2.

3.

4. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=4hmSPb...feature=related

5.

6. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=XRi6m7...feature=related

7. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=Aws3ZM...feature=related

8. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=giuEOQ...feature=related

9. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=yy3a73...feature=related

10.

11.

12. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=LXMmQR...feature=related

13. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=FWN7zY...feature=related

14.

15. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioOrreuQ94c

16. http://tweetphoto.com/22647514

17. http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...bshare.me_AMdZh

18. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3337...118996168116475

19. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=El-zPy...feature=related

20. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=KzcVcH...feature=related

21.

22. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=34hSEP...feature=related

23. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=kuAQyc...feature=related

24. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=Pv9Hpf...feature=related

25.

26. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3282...p;id=1785951766

27. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5959...mp;id=506055218

28. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5960...mp;id=506055218

29. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8684405.stm

30. http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=...1067&ref=mf

ที่มา : http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/no...mp;id=277701868

Tags: ashitastudio, strobistthailand, ช่าง ภาพหน้าตาดี, ทริ ปถ่ายภาพ, ผู้ชาย, วา ไรตี้ของคนรักการถ่ายภาพ

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[pimay11]

Xenomorph:

But then again...

The real truth behind this whole red-shirt movement wasn't to help the poor. It was just a deceive campaign to tople the government and help Thaksin back to power, plus giving the red-shirt leaders the privileged seats in the government so they can continue to get rich by the very same corruption they practiced during Thaksin's golden days. That's the whole truth behind this movement.

It's rather amusing to see all the pro red-shirts here in TV that still doesn't realize that they have been deceived and still believes that this movement had to do with helping the poor. Their arguments still circles around the red-shirt propaganda; Government wasn't elected, the poor have been suppressed and badly treated, and so on...

All the arguments I see from those posters in here, is exactly the very same propaganda the red-shirt leaders have been filling the low educated poor with. This situation is in reality a pure disaster for the poor. They have now been both fooled and turned into losers.

Agreed. I live among the poorest of the poor in Thailand. It took me about thirty seconds to see through this facade. There was never any agenda representing the poor. I was all about "we want democracy". And the lunatic red leaders put a spin on it that if the poor supported them Thaksin would return and liberate them. They fell for it of course hook, line and sinker.

Thaksin came to a village about thirty kilometers from where I live and his minions called people up on the stage and he gave out 1,000 B notes. He handed out about 20,000 B. I was there I saw it with my own eyes. He also said he repaid the IMF loan to Thailand out of his own pocket. He also promised these people he would build a new state of the art hospital. Of course it never happened. And he had no intentions of doing this. It was a vote buying trip plain and simple.

Now the farmers around here are twice as deep in debt because of the 1,000,000 B per village scheme. They are losing their land because they cannot repay the money borrowed to buy new trucks, motorcycles and cell phones. Not to mention how much the village heads skimmed off the top.

I cannot say enough bad about these guys because they have lied, deceived and hurt these local people more than could ever be known.

They are total scum.

[yoshiwara]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think we'll see a big unrest coming in November, when the elections are supposed to be held. The government did a great job publicizing that they will be holding elections in November, but a lousy job in publicizing that they were called off. In fact, if I remember right, only one of the ministers said that Abhisit had called off the election and it didn't even make headlines in most Thai newspapers. Most Thais I know, weren't even aware that the elections had been canceled, so this will add to the "broken promises" when November comes.

Now you are looking into your crystal balls.

maybe you can contact Maj Gen Khattiya with the ouija board

[ThailandTommy]

The real fight here is about the right to continue "buying votes" of the rural poor......which they call "democracy" and then control this highly productive country!

Mr. Taksin ( who is surely controlling all the joy sticks that maneuver this protest) says he/they "are fighting for democracy"! Well, they are truly fighting now, but not for democracy....because VOTE BUYING is not democracy but it is the democracy that he is talking about. Vote buying is rampant here in Thailand and no one seems to be able to stop it as it is so ingrained within the culture. That was the main underlying factor behind the "yellow shirt" protests of last year. No matter how much corruption goes on within the Taksin political party ( or whatever name they use at any given time) no one can keep them from coming into power because no one can stop they from buying the votes of the desperately poor rural farmers of the north-east region of the country. It is highly populated and once they can buy their votes.....they can control the Thai government.

Many of Taksin's cronies have already been kicked out of politics for 5 year periods for vote buying....but they just start another party with all the same people and even the same office and run for office under the new name!

The utter frustration of THAT situation is what fueled the yellow shirt protest. They Red Shirts are being paid 1000 baht per day, or about 4 days wages for the working poor for one day of protesting for the "Red Shirt Cause"...which is really only "Greed"!

[kmj]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

Why is TV allowing such blatant and obviously paid criminals express any further support of these red group criminals on this web site?

Are you out of your mind?

The editorial was very well written and exactly on the mark!

Thanks for sharing it with us!

Please help get the scum toxic support off this web site.

It's very disturbing

It's called a forum, check the dictionary - do you get it now!!!!

[ThailandTommy]

something to think about

Suthikiart Jirathiwat and Pracha Maleenont are quite close to Thaksin Shinawatra. They are still on good terms. If the reds set the blaze it would not make sense at all.

Places burnt down are symbolic of regime/system and representation of success. However the perpetrators are sparing many business locations

Dusit, MBK, ASTV, Nation, SisaoTewes, Pullman Kingpower, all left untouched.

Those would've been the reds' targets. Remember who was feuding with Central and BEC before all of this? Who was the biggest enemy of the Central Group and Ch. 3 in the past 3 years? The direct beneficiary of the fire is not reds or Thaksin...it's the man who feuded.

The fire kills 5 birds in one-stone: Channel 3, Central, Thaksin, Reds, Anti-Monarchists. Pongpat was used. Game over for Thaksin as he and reds are delegitimized, while opponents of Central/Bangkok Bank/BEC benefit. Think about this for a minute and you'll realise the missing jigsaw of this puzzle.

The men behind the blaze are the men who wanted to drive BEC/Central/BBL out of business and blame it on protestors. The fires irrevocably end the reds shirts movement for now, while Thaksin cannot conceivably ever return to politics or even to Thai soil.

The victims of the fire are not Thaksin/Reds's enemies. They are the enemies of Thaksin's enemies. Ultra-hardcore-right-winged conservative types stand to benefit from this chaos. Watch the aftermath closely and you'll see. Those who are desperate about clinging on to power are required to create an element of fear in the heart of its population. The incentive is greater than those who are aspiring to attain power.

People will go to great lengths to protect remaining interests while the threat is eliminated to foster a rally-round-the-regime type of feeling.

The goal of the movement to eliminate Thaksin forever from the system was not accomplished until today. It is end-game for him. We lose. Regime wins. May I stress not coincidence ASTV, Nation, PullmanKingPower, Dusit remain untouched. This battle is deeper than what meets the eyes. And SiSao is untouched.

True. CentralWorld was the biggest competitor for Paragon in the area. Now it's gone.

If your post is correct you have a very good point, I always thought that there was/is more to this than what meets the eye, I could never understand why the Gov offer to hold elections in November was rejected! I also personally believe that there is an underlying movement to rid Thailand of the monarchy.

[Neilly]

CNN.doc Zeze Na Pombejra: Open Letter to CNN International

Dear Sirs/Madams,

Recently, CNN Thailand Correspondents Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider have made me seriously reconsider your agency as a source for reliable and accurate unbiased news. As of this writing, over thousands of CNN's viewers have already begun to question the accuracy and dependability of its reporting as regards events in Afghanistan, Haiti, Iraq, Iran, etc., in addition to Bangkok.

เร็วๆนี้ ผู้สื่อข่าว CNN ประจำ ประเทศไทย แดน ริเวอร์ และ ซาร่าห์ ซไนเดอร์ ทำให้ดิฉันต้องกลับมาพิจารณาอย่างจริงจังว่าข่าวของสำนักข่าวของคุณเป็น แหล่งข่าวที่เชื่อถือได้ มีความถูกต้อง และไม่เอนเอียงไปข้างใดข้างหนึ่งหรือไม่ ในขณะที่ดิฉันกำลังเขียนจดหมายฉบับนี้ มีผู้เสพข่าวของ CNN กำลัง ตั้งคำถามถึงความแม่นยำและแหล่งข่าวในการนำเสนอเหตุการณืที่เกิดขึ้นใน อาฟกานิสสถาน ไฮติ อิรัก อิหร่าน เป็นต้น .. เพิ่มเติมจากการเสนอข่าวในกรุงเทพมหานคร

Now that is pure class...would love to CNN's reply

p.s. Could you pls do another one and send it to the BBC...they were/are just as bad

[pimay11]

CNN.doc Zeze Na Pombejra: Open Letter to CNN International

Dear Sirs/Madams,

Recently, CNN Thailand Correspondents Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider have made me seriously reconsider your agency as a source for reliable and accurate unbiased news. As of this writing, over thousands of CNN's viewers have already begun to question the accuracy and dependability of its reporting as regards events in Afghanistan, Haiti, Iraq, Iran, etc., in addition to Bangkok.

เร็วๆนี้ ผู้สื่อข่าว CNN ประจำ ประเทศไทย แดน ริเวอร์ และ ซาร่าห์ ซไนเดอร์ ทำให้ดิฉันต้องกลับมาพิจารณาอย่างจริงจังว่าข่าวของสำนักข่าวของคุณเป็น แหล่งข่าวที่เชื่อถือได้ มีความถูกต้อง และไม่เอนเอียงไปข้างใดข้างหนึ่งหรือไม่ ในขณะที่ดิฉันกำลังเขียนจดหมายฉบับนี้ มีผู้เสพข่าวของ CNN กำลัง ตั้งคำถามถึงความแม่นยำและแหล่งข่าวในการนำเสนอเหตุการณืที่เกิดขึ้นใน อาฟกานิสสถาน ไฮติ อิรัก อิหร่าน เป็นต้น .. เพิ่มเติมจากการเสนอข่าวในกรุงเทพมหานคร

Now that is pure class...would love to CNN's reply

p.s. Could you pls do another one and send it to the BBC...they were/are just as bad

I edited it to apply to BBC, sent it to them on their official website requesting a reply. I instantly received a generic message saying they would reply. You guessed it. No reply.

[RickBradford]

"Anger is destructive and the advancement of democracy can never happen by being angry and vengeful," he [Veera Musigapong] said.

Pity he didn't make that a bit clearer over the past 2 months... another lying weasel who won't be missed.

[lilkitty]

CNN.doc Zeze Na Pombejra: Open Letter to CNN International

Dear Sirs/Madams,

Recently, CNN Thailand Correspondents Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider have made me seriously reconsider your agency as a source for reliable and accurate unbiased news. As of this writing, over thousands of CNN's viewers have already begun to question the accuracy and dependability of its reporting as regards events in Afghanistan, Haiti, Iraq, Iran, etc., in addition to Bangkok.

เร็วๆนี้ ผู้สื่อข่าว CNN ประจำ ประเทศไทย แดน ริเวอร์ และ ซาร่าห์ ซไนเดอร์ ทำให้ดิฉันต้องกลับมาพิจารณาอย่างจริงจังว่าข่าวของสำนักข่าวของคุณเป็น แหล่งข่าวที่เชื่อถือได้ มีความถูกต้อง และไม่เอนเอียงไปข้างใดข้างหนึ่งหรือไม่ ในขณะที่ดิฉันกำลังเขียนจดหมายฉบับนี้ มีผู้เสพข่าวของ CNN กำลัง ตั้งคำถามถึงความแม่นยำและแหล่งข่าวในการนำเสนอเหตุการณืที่เกิดขึ้นใน อาฟกานิสสถาน ไฮติ อิรัก อิหร่าน เป็นต้น .. เพิ่มเติมจากการเสนอข่าวในกรุงเทพมหานคร

Now that is pure class...would love to CNN's reply

p.s. Could you pls do another one and send it to the BBC...they were/are just as bad

I edited it to apply to BBC, sent it to them on their official website requesting a reply. I instantly received a generic message saying they would reply. You guessed it. No reply.

I wouldn't expect them to answer to such childish requests anyways. They have better things to do. So, don't be surprised if you don't get a response.

[Chiangmai Cheers]

"Bangkok govornor: Bt100 million needed to restore and renovate the city. /via @veen_NT

TAN: INN: Education Minister will hold a meeting 2 evaluate situ to consider whether opening of school terms in Bkk needed to be postponed "

I know the Baht is strong at the moment, but Bt100 million wouldn't restore much

[lilkitty]

"Bangkok govornor: Bt100 million needed to restore and renovate the city. /via @veen_NT

TAN: INN: Education Minister will hold a meeting 2 evaluate situ to consider whether opening of school terms in Bkk needed to be postponed "

I know the Baht is strong at the moment, but Bt100 million wouldn't restore much

100 million Baht? Roughly 3 million USD? Thank god we have a governor that knows so much about finances. All my worries are put to rest now.

[jonclark]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

If the majority support the government, why didn't Abhisit call an election, win it and then none of this would have happened. The blame rest firmly on his shoulders. You cannot deny people democracy year after year and expect no consequences.

You are right, in a democracy the majority rules and wins..... Democracy is NOT what is happening in Thailand. It hasn't seen democracy since the coup.

Well said. The elections which brought PPP / PT were completely undemocratic, so why are the reds complaining now???

[Grower]

Given most farang in Thailand are so poor in the Thai language; they have zero chance of understanding the nuances of the things said at the rallies by the various red shirt operatives. 99% of the farang have no idea of the seditious and treasonous language used against the government. This crossed major boundaries of social/political etiquette.

Not to belabor the point; most western reporting is crap and they would have been better off showing pictures and forgetting their ill informed reportage.

Most opinions by westerners aren't worth the energy to express them.

For those interested in learning about their adopted country and culture this link may prove helpful;

somtow.org/2010/05/dont-blame-dan-rivers

I can't post a full url; you can figure it out if you are interested.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Grower

[rabo]

"Bangkok govornor: Bt100 million needed to restore and renovate the city. /via @veen_NT

TAN: INN: Education Minister will hold a meeting 2 evaluate situ to consider whether opening of school terms in Bkk needed to be postponed "

I know the Baht is strong at the moment, but Bt100 million wouldn't restore much

100 million Baht? Roughly 3 million USD? Thank god we have a governor that knows so much about finances. All my worries are put to rest now.

Silly cat! He is talking about the roads and sidewalks. Everything else, buildings, property, BTS, power lines, BTS cameras, are not not owned by the city. Total estimated damage is about 50 billion baht.

Almost exactly what was confiscated from Thaksin!!!!

Do you think this is coincidence?

Edited May 20, 2010 by rabo

[bangkokburning]

These problems have been with Thailand for years and when the latest vomit of violence is over, everyone will look back - study the loss of life and property, witness the waste -and go about recreating the conditions all over again. Witness: Cambodia and the Philippines.

Mans inhumanity toward man knows no bounds

Thailand:

Chinese elite that controls virtually everything that is worth controlling (although not quite as bad as the Philippines)

A legal system that is antiquated, arbitrary and corrupt to the core.

Political system with far too many redundant positions that are only oppty's for graft, corruption

A nation that is divided into tiny petty provinces, all with their own governance

Undereducated, over-employed civil servants. Corrupt, petty, temperamental, arrogant

Tens of legions of lazy bureaucrats

A poorly paid and ill trained police force, given to venal corruption and criminality.

An K-12 education system that models Cambodia more than Malaysia

Outside the better universities in BKK, most upper education is quite substandard

Poor wages and conditions that stultify career and vocational upward mobility

A cultural structure that does not encourage upward mobility. respect authority, elders, money.

Corrupt professional class - that stifles innovation and clean governance

A military (Army) that is as corrupt as its neighbors

National pandemic of meth-amphetamine abuse and all those involved

Corruption at the lowest levels of society - the Headman

Huge segment of underclass (especially youth) that see criminality as a way of life and profit

The manner in which the poor are quite comfortable with their women going off to work as prostitutes - I have witnessed in no other nation

The manner in which the poor send their children to work under atrocious conditions

The lack of a national "moral compass" - the moral compass is money

Poor way in which the government treats its foreign nationals

Wholly dishonest and dodgy property market

Nontransparent banking/insurance system full of fees, taxes and lacking insurance

A nation that is FAR too dependent on tourism (7% GDP) - yet discourages expat living.

A nation with needlessly complicated visa regulations - stultifying business, education and investment

Religion (philosophy) - worn on ones sleeve.

The inability to learn English as a nation, which can only forward its interests it in so many ways.

Thailand is now on track to become the "new" Philippines -rather than Malaysia. The signs have been there for years but Thailand always had a shot at the "first world". Thailand could CHOOSE to plot a new course, it had money, options and it was well thought of in the world. Thailand now appears to be out of options.

The above issues will not change and the chain of events in the last five years shows intractable positions between various interests. It has sullied its reputation and goodwill as a tourist destination. In fact, Cambodia and Philippines have arguably been more stable the last five+ years. Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Immigration authorities seemingly go out of their way to make living or long-term stay in Thailand a bewildering experience almost always incurring large needless expenses. The experience is almost always given to arbitrariness, petty bribery and groveling. Witness the explosion of this very website. These stories by the thousands indirectly sully Thailand's reputation.

At this juncture foreigners will take a very hard look at Thailand. Investors will not create businesses, they will invest via the stock market (if at all). Thai's are not well educated and what they can mfg can easily be built in China or anywhere else. While Thailand has a great sense of style and aesthetic - it thoroughly lacks creativity and innovation. Tourists - real tourists will go elsewhere, no - really. They remember the airport fiasco and Bangkok in flames. They here about the ongoing instability and they think = Haiti. After all TAT, Thailand is only a pretty beach - don't forget it. The long stay people have already been insulted and chased out. These coupled wit the lower end expats have seen their standards of living decline 20-30% over recent years, most of which due to the controls BOT has placed on currency and trading. The rest are sort of stuck with Thailand - They purchased property, have partners, children, businesses...Any of you looking to invest in property after the events of last few months? Scant.

But with all this what still breaks my heart is when I hear about some slob living in Nakorn Nowhere, supporting an ex-prostitute and her # kids. He spends all his dosh - on them (on Thai's, on THAILAND). He is denied a visa for some asinine reason and is forced leave the country and the family. The Immigration officer could care less, not a moments sleep lost. That family because solely of that foreigner had a shot at getting out of poverty. The boy could have been an electrician, the girl a nurse. Mom could have had a dream of a tiny house and not living hand to mouth. Not working in Pattaya at 53. This is done daily. How does that benefit Thailand?

So, while I feel for Thai's - the writing was clearly on the wall. Thailand has some hard choices. Thailand has many dark forces that will only be hurt ($$) by change. Remember, those with money in Thailand or in the world are stateless. One day it's Thailand the next it's Montenegro or the south of France. The only allegiance is to their god - money.

My heart goes out to all poor people. I am a person given to a 'left' perspective - but I fail to see how the actions of the Red's in the last few weeks can only be seen as destructive to person and property. Taksin has a huge hand in this. I have a feeling most of the violence is caused by dead-enders. The elite have turned themselves in long ago, they know the gig is up. just those on the barricades - if you leave, we will shoot you in the back sort of thing. so they stay. Then there are those given to criminality and arson.

Edited May 20, 2010 by bangkokburning

[lilkitty]

"Bangkok govornor: Bt100 million needed to restore and renovate the city. /via @veen_NT

TAN: INN: Education Minister will hold a meeting 2 evaluate situ to consider whether opening of school terms in Bkk needed to be postponed "

I know the Baht is strong at the moment, but Bt100 million wouldn't restore much

100 million Baht? Roughly 3 million USD? Thank god we have a governor that knows so much about finances. All my worries are put to rest now.

Silly cat! He is talking about the roads and sidewalks. Everything else, buildings, property, BTS, power lines, BTS cameras, are not not owned by the city. Total estimated damage is about 50 billion baht.

Almost exactly what was confiscated from Thaksin!!!!

Do you think this is coincidence?

Not at all. If you look back in my posts, I said a while ago that it surely wasn't coincidence that Rajprasong was chosen as the protest site. If you look at the landlords and tenants in the area, it should be obvious to anyone that Thaksin's response to his confiscated money was "I lost money, now you lose money". Sadly they walked right into his trap. I'm wondering why they didn't saw it coming. Since the government were the ones that pushed them from the bridge, where their initial demonstrations were based, straight into Rajprasong. Remember they they weren't at Rajprasong during the whole demonstrations. The government wanted the bridge cleared and told them to "go elsewhere".

They should have addressed the problem while it was still at the bridge.

[intothefuture]

CNN.doc Zeze Na Pombejra: Open Letter to CNN International

Dear Sirs/Madams,

Recently, CNN Thailand Correspondents Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider have made me seriously reconsider your agency as a source for reliable and accurate unbiased news. As of this writing, over thousands of CNN's viewers have already begun to question the accuracy and dependability of its reporting as regards events in Afghanistan, Haiti, Iraq, Iran, etc., in addition to Bangkok.

เร็วๆนี้ ผู้สื่อข่าว CNN ประจำ ประเทศไทย แดน ริเวอร์ และ ซาร่าห์ ซไนเดอร์ ทำให้ดิฉันต้องกลับมาพิจารณาอย่างจริงจังว่าข่าวของสำนักข่าวของคุณเป็น แหล่งข่าวที่เชื่อถือได้ มีความถูกต้อง และไม่เอนเอียงไปข้างใดข้างหนึ่งหรือไม่ ในขณะที่ดิฉันกำลังเขียนจดหมายฉบับนี้ มีผู้เสพข่าวของ CNN กำลัง ตั้งคำถามถึงความแม่นยำและแหล่งข่าวในการนำเสนอเหตุการณืที่เกิดขึ้นใน อาฟกานิสสถาน ไฮติ อิรัก อิหร่าน เป็นต้น .. เพิ่มเติมจากการเสนอข่าวในกรุงเทพมหานคร

I want to thank you for putting together this very professional letter to CNN. As I watched Dan Rivers and Ms. Snider giving their reports over the past week... I found myself infuriated. Clearly they were both looking for an opportunity to boost their careers thru reporting in a "danger zone". But their sensationalism and one-sided approach...actually may have caused more injury and death to Thais, on both sides of the conflict. CNN is looking for ratings....and having reporters "embedded" with the protesters who are "fighting against an oppressive regime" is entertaining for their viewers. This is sad. Thank you for the very tedious hard work putting your letter and addendum together. Bravo to you.

[lilkitty]

I wouldn't be surprised if the international media was leaning towards the red side in this conflict, considering the ridiculous number of reporters that have been injured and killed. Remember the Japanese reporter, where the army refused to release the report if he was killed by the red shirts or by the army. I wonder why the army would refuse to release the report if it was the red shirts that killed him. Or the guy that was shot several times by the army after he identified himself as a reporter.

[jonclark]

Given most farang in Thailand are so poor in the Thai language; they have zero chance of understanding the nuances of the things said at the rallies by the various red shirt operatives. 99% of the farang have no idea of the seditious and treasonous language used against the government. This crossed major boundaries of social/political etiquette.

Not to belabor the point; most western reporting is crap and they would have been better off showing pictures and forgetting their ill informed reportage.

Most opinions by westerners aren't worth the energy to express them.

For those interested in learning about their adopted country and culture this link may prove helpful;

somtow.org/2010/05/dont-blame-dan-rivers

I can't post a full url; you can figure it out if you are interested.

Someone else shares your view considering this is what you get at the website

Page not found

Sorry, the page you were looking for in the blog Somtow's World does not exist.

[jonclark]

Sorry doubt post deleted

Edited May 20, 2010 by jonclark

[ferd54]

These problems have been with Thailand for years and when the latest vomit of violence is over, everyone will look back - study the loss of life and property, witness the waste -and go about recreating the conditions all over again. Witness: Cambodia and the Philippines.

Mans inhumanity toward man knows no bounds

Thailand:

Chinese elite that controls virtually everything that is worth controlling (although not quite as bad as the Philippines)

A legal system that is antiquated, arbitrary and corrupt to the core.

Political system with far too many redundant positions that are only oppty's for graft, corruption

A nation that is divided into tiny petty provinces, all with their own governance

Undereducated, over-employed civil servants. Corrupt, petty, temperamental, arrogant

Tens of legions of lazy bureaucrats

A poorly paid and ill trained police force, given to venal corruption and criminality.

An K-12 education system that models Cambodia more than Malaysia

Outside the better universities in BKK, most upper education is quite substandard

Poor wages and conditions that stultify career and vocational upward mobility

A cultural structure that does not encourage upward mobility. respect authority, elders, money.

Corrupt professional class - that stifles innovation and clean governance

A military (Army) that is as corrupt as its neighbors

National pandemic of meth-amphetamine abuse and all those involved

Corruption at the lowest levels of society - the Headman

Huge segment of underclass (especially youth) that see criminality as a way of life and profit

The manner in which the poor are quite comfortable with their women going off to work as prostitutes - I have witnessed in no other nation

The manner in which the poor send their children to work under atrocious conditions

The lack of a national "moral compass" - the moral compass is money

Poor way in which the government treats its foreign nationals

Wholly dishonest and dodgy property market

Nontransparent banking/insurance system full of fees, taxes and lacking insurance

A nation that is FAR too dependent on tourism (7% GDP) - yet discourages expat living.

A nation with needlessly complicated visa regulations - stultifying business, education and investment

Religion (philosophy) - worn on ones sleeve.

The inability to learn English as a nation, which can only forward its interests it in so many ways.

Thailand is now on track to become the "new" Philippines -rather than Malaysia. The signs have been there for years but Thailand always had a shot at the "first world". Thailand could CHOOSE to plot a new course, it had money, options and it was well thought of in the world. Thailand now appears to be out of options.

The above issues will not change and the chain of events in the last five years shows intractable positions between various interests. It has sullied its reputation and goodwill as a tourist destination. In fact, Cambodia and Philippines have arguably been more stable the last five+ years. Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Immigration authorities seemingly go out of their way to make living or long-term stay in Thailand a bewildering experience almost always incurring large needless expenses. The experience is almost always given to arbitrariness, petty bribery and groveling. Witness the explosion of this very website. These stories by the thousands indirectly sully Thailand's reputation.

At this juncture foreigners will take a very hard look at Thailand. Investors will not create businesses, they will invest via the stock market (if at all). Thai's are not well educated and what they can mfg can easily be built in China or anywhere else. While Thailand has a great sense of style and aesthetic - it thoroughly lacks creativity and innovation. Tourists - real tourists will go elsewhere, no - really. They remember the airport fiasco and Bangkok in flames. They here about the ongoing instability and they think = Haiti. After all TAT, Thailand is only a pretty beach - don't forget it. The long stay people have already been insulted and chased out. These coupled wit the lower end expats have seen their standards of living decline 20-30% over recent years, most of which due to the controls BOT has placed on currency and trading. The rest are sort of stuck with Thailand - They purchased property, have partners, children, businesses...Any of you looking to invest in property after the events of last few months? Scant.

But with all this what still breaks my heart is when I hear about some slob living in Nakorn Nowhere, supporting an ex-prostitute and her # kids. He spends all his dosh - on them (on Thai's, on THAILAND). He is denied a visa for some asinine reason and is forced leave the country and the family. The Immigration officer could care less, not a moments sleep lost. That family because solely of that foreigner had a shot at getting out of poverty. The boy could have been an electrician, the girl a nurse. Mom could have had a dream of a tiny house and not living hand to mouth. Not working in Pattaya at 53. This is done daily. How does that benefit Thailand?

So, while I feel for Thai's - the writing was clearly on the wall. Thailand has some hard choices. Thailand has many dark forces that will only be hurt ($$) by change. Remember, those with money in Thailand or in the world are stateless. One day it's Thailand the next it's Montenegro or the south of France. The only allegiance is to their god - money.

My heart goes out to all poor people. I am a person given to a 'left' perspective - but I fail to see how the actions of the Red's in the last few weeks can only be seen as destructive to person and property. Taksin has a huge hand in this. I have a feeling most of the violence is caused by dead-enders. The elite have turned themselves in long ago, they know the gig is up. just those on the barricades - if you leave, we will shoot you in the back sort of thing. so they stay. Then there are those given to criminality and arson.

Outstanding post!

[elcent]

today another Bangkok Bank Branch was set on fire this evening.

Bangkok Bank Orm Noi branch was set on fire on Thursday evening, police said.

The bank is located just a short distance from Sriwichai 3 Hospital.

Police believe that rioters were behind the arson.

Firemen were still unable to control the fire as of 6.30pm.

[elshaheen]

Thailand has not choice in the matter. The Northern Thai people who have had little chance of having a voice, seen as second class citizens by the elite in Thailand. Have said enough, is enough. This message is being sent to those who are in power.

Whether or not they have close connections with the former PM, it doesn’t really matter anymore. Each insurrection / revolt or revolution in history come when a group of people are oppressed to a degree and the people cannot tolerate it anymore. They snap.

Now, the world is watching and paying close attention and making their own judgments about Thailand, so are foreign investors and others.

The country-dwellers are only the sheep for those who are pushing this movement and with sheep; some get slaughtered by either side. Expendable in all aspects of politics.

I myself do support the Red shirt movement, not for what it represented before it escalated to this point. In order for there to be peace between the two. Both or all sides must come together and put their differences aside and talk, which they have, but like all people we come to the table with our own personal issues and nothing works.

So, go on Red shirts and give Thailand a reason to move forward.