A Premeditated Plan To Burn Bangkok

[animatic]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it? A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not. If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say? They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

Your post completely evades the warnings stated in advance (warnings to the government!) that stood as orders to the red shirt mob. They heard Nattuwut and they heard Arisaman. They heard Veera calling on them to burn down the counter corruption agency. They heard over and over the violent rhetoric from the leaders. They chose to stay after hearing calls for violence over and over from their leaders.

It is a kindness on the part of many people to say that they were forced into staying by the redshirt guards, or the possible repurcussions they would suffer if they returned home without redshirt approval. It is a kindness on the part of many that say they couldn't leave because they had to surrender their ID's to get paid. If they were NOT there 100% of their own free will then they get to deny involvement in premeditated terrorism.

If, on the other hand, they were there, like the reds on this forum say, voluntarily in all ways then they are ALL guilty of insurrection and supporting domestic terrorism on the behalf of Thaksin.

Time for the reds on the board to make a stand

I also heard a Brit calling on them to burn down and loot Central Plaza. I also heard an Oz Sniper on stage figting with the Red

So this 2 don't count, because they are farangs.

No one said they don't count. In fact both are under arrest at the moment.

Yes, the Irish Aussie said that stuff on stage.

The other guy just spouting bile on the street, but before the arsons.

No hint that he ever went on a stage.

Edited May 26, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

organised burning and arson, or not, and by who ? the legal system would tell very soon, as they have all the 'heads' with them !

apparently, there were 'organised command' and 'action plan' to perform these burning and arson in such very short time, just with in 4 hours after red leaders surrendered. it was certainly not an simultaneous act, by Isaan farmers and protesters !

perhaps that moron already 'leaked' some hints to us, but just no one read his code :-(

Could it be the men in WHITE that does the arson? and shooting in the Temple? They are not with the Army, just roam with them.

Probably special forces that can blend in with the enemy.

And it would be foollish NOT to have special forces out, because they would better know

how to deal with the EX. special forces hiding in the shadows arrayed against the army regulars.

[whybother]

Probably special forces that can blend in with the enemy.

And it would be foollish NOT to have special forces out, because they would better know

how to deal with the EX. special forces hiding in the shadows arrayed against the army regulars.

I don't think I've ever seen 'special forces' types wearing shorts and t-shirts while in action.

[Motoon]

The tragedy is that we will not get accurate information for a long time to come, if ever. There is still a wide rift between the different factions and obviously also an eclatant lack of knowledge within the red masses. Example? I just came back from upnorth where some villagers still swear and discuss the fact of the murdered (by the Government) soldiers, who refused to shoot at red shirts. By now the story has been found out as another manipulative plot, using pictures of soldiers killed in the South while serving their country.

I've also read a discussion on another (Thai) forum who ended like this: <We aren't finished, we'll come back to Bangkok soon!> Answer: <We know, next time we'll be ready for you!>. I'm afraid we're in for a long, very long healing process.

Wish my Thai reading / comprehension was better. I'd be interested in the Thai forums on this subject......or is it just loads of Thais bickering instead of farangs on TV?

Yes, there is a fair amount of bickering and it is not dissimilar in many aspects to what is happening on TV.

[Kvwielink]

There are a large number of assumptions in this article, which, although possible, are really not verifiable. The fact that central world was burnt down to "dispose" of a large stock of weapons for instance. Who is the "intelligence source" who provided this information to the writer of this article? Is there physical evidence to support this claim?

If I'm not wrong only 1 dead body was found in Central World as well, on a higher floor, not in the basement, probably trying to take something which was not his to begin with. There was mention of 10 bodies early on in the investigation, but this was later denied by all who were actually involved in the inspection of the building.

He has also "heard" that police smuggled militants out of Lumpini park the night before the crackdown. Again, I have not read or seen this in other media and, while perhaps true, it cannot be verified and is now only used as another statement to fuel the fire of hatred against the reds.

While I realize that this is an opinion piece, nobody benefits from wild claims like this. As pointed out earlier, those who already believe this to be true will only be further strengthened in their opinions, whereas supporters of the reds will as usual deny all these claims. The majority who is in the middle will probably read this for what it is, an opinion with little evidence to prove the points being made. Yet it's those minorities that do not need to be convinced any further, that pose the biggest threat to the stability of Thailand right now. Extreme opinions can easily lead to extreme behavior as we have seen during the last few months in Thailand, and in the rest of the world throughout the years. If we would be willing to look at the facts only, and to not try to portray our anger-fueled opinions as facts, Thailand would be able to recover, and indeed, improve the plight of its people, ALL the people, much faster.

Post 1,

and spoken like a lawyer working for a PR firm.

Ooh, we don't know, reasonable doubt, can't be real, only rumor.

Welcome instant expert.

We never can have enough here to sway our thinking can we?

The point I'm trying to make is that it's really easy to transform rumors into facts. "If so and so says it, it must be true". Don't get me wrong, what has happened in Bangkok was a tragedy, and I am certainly happy that those pesky protesters are gone. I for one do not enjoy having to evacuate from my home for several days because there is a chance of getting caught in the crossfire.

What irked me about this particular piece is that it is published under the banner of a respected newspaper, and although the nation is also not exactly neutral in its stance in this conflict, I would expect that fact is separated from hearsay, even if it is an opinion piece. I'm sure that many of the rumors ARE true, but is it really so hard to stick to the facts?

[xminator]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it?  A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not.  If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say?  They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard line red supporters will lie, lie and lie again to cover their position.

The current lie is that the violent reds were only 1%.

A stone lie.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard line government supporters will lie, lie and lie again to cover their position.

The current lie is that the violent reds were more then angry youths.

A stone lie.

[MikeyIdea]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it? A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not. If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

*****

My Goodness, that's appalling, who writes such crap?

I worked at Central World for too long really, also after it got uncomfortable or possible even somewhat dangerous to go there because peaceful demonstrators dressed in red intimidated me to stay away (not physical intimidation though)

You could hear the loud speakers at full blast also from inside the office and unlike many of you posting here, I speak more Thai than English in an average day since over 10 years back so it wasn't difficult to understand the message put forward. And the peaceful red demonstrators screamed out their approval at the top of their lungs. Yes, what were these reds who did that?

Don't say that 99% of the reds at Ratchaprasong were innocent, it's more appropriate to say that 99% were guilty – assuming that 1% of them were either too old to hear well or too young to understand the words

Edited May 26, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think I've ever seen 'special forces' types wearing shorts and t-shirts while in action.

They wear what they need to wear to accomplish their mission and many protesters and other civilians were wearing shorts and t-shirts.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[jdinasia]

There are a large number of assumptions in this article, which, although possible, are really not verifiable. The fact that central world was burnt down to "dispose" of a large stock of weapons for instance. Who is the "intelligence source" who provided this information to the writer of this article? Is there physical evidence to support this claim?

If I'm not wrong only 1 dead body was found in Central World as well, on a higher floor, not in the basement, probably trying to take something which was not his to begin with. There was mention of 10 bodies early on in the investigation, but this was later denied by all who were actually involved in the inspection of the building.

He has also "heard" that police smuggled militants out of Lumpini park the night before the crackdown. Again, I have not read or seen this in other media and, while perhaps true, it cannot be verified and is now only used as another statement to fuel the fire of hatred against the reds.

While I realize that this is an opinion piece, nobody benefits from wild claims like this. As pointed out earlier, those who already believe this to be true will only be further strengthened in their opinions, whereas supporters of the reds will as usual deny all these claims. The majority who is in the middle will probably read this for what it is, an opinion with little evidence to prove the points being made. Yet it's those minorities that do not need to be convinced any further, that pose the biggest threat to the stability of Thailand right now. Extreme opinions can easily lead to extreme behavior as we have seen during the last few months in Thailand, and in the rest of the world throughout the years. If we would be willing to look at the facts only, and to not try to portray our anger-fueled opinions as facts, Thailand would be able to recover, and indeed, improve the plight of its people, ALL the people, much faster.

Post 1,

and spoken like a lawyer working for a PR firm.

Ooh, we don't know, reasonable doubt, can't be real, only rumor.

Welcome instant expert.

We never can have enough here to sway our thinking can we?

The point I'm trying to make is that it's really easy to transform rumors into facts. "If so and so says it, it must be true". Don't get me wrong, what has happened in Bangkok was a tragedy, and I am certainly happy that those pesky protesters are gone. I for one do not enjoy having to evacuate from my home for several days because there is a chance of getting caught in the crossfire.

What irked me about this particular piece is that it is published under the banner of a respected newspaper, and although the nation is also not exactly neutral in its stance in this conflict, I would expect that fact is separated from hearsay, even if it is an opinion piece. I'm sure that many of the rumors ARE true, but is it really so hard to stick to the facts?

Opinion pieces can and do and SHOULD discuss the rumours that are flying around. I watch FOX on occasion just to see what spin and rumours are being used by the folks that I see as just plain nutters in the US. I watched People TV to see what information (mostly DISinformation) was being spread to the reds. Even the reds should appreciate knowing what is being said about them and it doesn't hurt you or anyone to know what is being said. The piece is clearly identified as opinion and should only get the weight that is implied with that label. (little or none)

[dbrenn]

Every word you say may be correct & the article has the ring of truth about and seems to fit the chain of events. However I'm afraid you are preaching either to the converted or the unconvertible as I would imagine subsequent comments will bear out. There seems to be very little middle ground on these forums - hopefully that's not representative of the whole of the community otherwise this crisis will drag on interminably.

Wise words. Thailand's tragedy is that there is no middle ground anymore. You can be either red or yellow, with nothing in between - a malaise that is echoed in this forum.

All this talk of reconciliation seems like so much wishful thinking and good intention, against a backdrop of two opposite sides who detest each other.

It's such a shame.

[yoshiwara]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it?  A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not.  If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say?  They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard line red supporters will lie, lie and lie again to cover their position.

The current lie is that the violent reds were only 1%.

A stone lie.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard line government supporters will lie, lie and lie again to cover their position.

The current lie is that the violent reds were more then angry youths.

A stone lie.

Is that the best you can come up with to cover up the premeditated destruction?

A few angry youths?

You can push it.

But no one is buying.

Mr Reverse Parrot.

[Who, me ?]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it?  A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not.  If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say?  They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard line red supporters will lie, lie and lie again to cover their position.

The current lie is that the violent reds were only 1%.

A stone lie.

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard line government supporters will lie, lie and lie again to cover their position.

The current lie is that the violent reds were more then angry youths.

A stone lie.

Not only you are wrong, but you even don't have the intelligence of putting your words .......

[yoshiwara]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it? A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not. If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

*****

My Goodness, that's appalling, who writes such crap?

I worked at Central World for too long really, also after it got uncomfortable or possible even somewhat dangerous to go there because peaceful demonstrators dressed in red intimidated me to stay away (not physical intimidation though)

You could hear the loud speakers at full blast also from inside the office and unlike many of you posting here, I speak more Thai than English in an average day since over 10 years back so it wasn't difficult to understand the message put forward. And the peaceful red demonstrators screamed out their approval at the top of their lungs. Yes, what were these reds who did that?

Don't say that 99% of the reds at Ratchaprasong were innocent, it's more appropriate to say that 99% were guilty – assuming that 1% of them were either too old to hear well or too young to understand the words

You will see the red apologists pushing the '1% were the only guilty ones and by the way they were only misguided angry youths' again and again.

Our new red forum friends have the hymn sheet.

And they are singing.

[WAYNEandAEI]

Well, that moron Savage and an Aussie have been arrested and are now in jail. Made my day.

Any word on the 2 Dutch protesters that were arrested in Chiang Mai.

The two Dutchmen, aged 44 and 17, who were arrested in Thailand for throwing stones during last week's riots in the northern city of Chiang Mai, have been released with a warning.

[Steely Dan]

Well, that moron Savage and an Aussie have been arrested and are now in jail. Made my day.

Glad I'm not stuck in jail with those two being the only other farang. The conversational options would drive me nuts.

The Aussie would have no doubt re-invented himself as an experienced political prisoner who had escaped jail in five continents and was now an expert in urban bush tucker, or cockroach and rice if you pressed him on it.

[jdinasia]

Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard line government supporters will lie, lie and lie again to cover their position.

The current lie is that the violent reds were more then angry youths.

A stone lie.

Please explain to us why there are videos of Arisaman and Nattuwut calling for the burning of BKK BEFORE the rally started? Why Thaksin and others are caught on tape doing the same. Why Veera called for burning the anti-corruption agency? Why daily there was violent speeches from the red stages?

The leadership spoke openly of violence and never just once --- but DAILY. Their shock-troops did the damage and their cannon-fodder got the press as victims. Why? Oh yeah, because they are a mob led by terrorists. They had an armed militia. They committed violent acts daily. They threatened violence from before the rally started.......

angry youth? Sure --- maybe the fighters hired from the Samut Prakhan drug gangs were youth .. and angry .. (oh yeah -- and mercenaries?) The rest were just what they are made out to be .... the fighters in an organization run by terrorists.

[ozzieman05]

Justice must not only be done but seem to be done

The pawns given fines with suspended sentences, this will make them think twice next time, and sends a message to Thai's that breaking the law faces consequences

The leader must be punished and get jail time, but more important pay resitution to those that suffered under their illegal occupation

any one found guilty of causing the fires or being involved in participation, must have the book thrown at them and pay dearly

The past is past the present is now, but we need to make an example so that this is not part of Tailand future

After all a few guilty only need suffer to make Thailand million's a safe place to live again, and tourist feel safe to return

I believe the quote is: "Justice should not only be done, but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done."

Gordon Hewart, Ist Viscount

Thanking you

[sillyman99]

Now what, too mch talk again. i want to see some arrests, and jail time for the guilty

What difference will it make to you either way, Jail or no Jail, arrests or no arrests, how will it change your life ?

This so called ' Talk ' as you refer to it is an article from The Nation Newspaper. They are so pro government I'm surprised the paper they use for print is white, yellow would be more appropriate.

Then again, if they did not tow the government line, they would have problems, and anything anti government would probably lead to closure, so I can see their reasons for being totally pro government.

Yet so many people here jump on the same bandwagon, believing everything the Government and their propaganda machine says, even if it's false.

Or are we to believe that The Thai government are too honest for that ?

I stay out of all the political thread squabbles going on, as you can see by my post count, I have better things to do with my time than sit for hours on end in front of a PC composing meaningless posts on an anonymous internet forum. ( Although I have done just with this post ).

A small percentage of The Red shirts were armed, but they are Branded as ' Terrorists " it's absurd. Are the Army snipers terrorizing people terrorists too, or is it OK to shoot random people because you have a uniform and know full well that the ruling government have given their blessing ?

I wonder what was promised to the Army Generals for ordering their men to use live ammunition on mostly unarmed protesters, instead of having a Military Coup and calming the situation down that way, it's not like Military Coups are unheard of in Thailand is it, why was this time so different ?

It will be interesting to see if they have lucrative new jobs in the future, or if their bank accounts have increase dramatically.

Or are we again to assume that Thai politics would be above that type of thing ?

All governments and their media outlets lie to the people to justify whatever action they have taken, rightly or wrongly.

That's politics folks, and if you believe everything you hear or read on government controlled media, than you are very poorly informed.

[whybother]

Every word you say may be correct & the article has the ring of truth about and seems to fit the chain of events. However I'm afraid you are preaching either to the converted or the unconvertible as I would imagine subsequent comments will bear out. There seems to be very little middle ground on these forums - hopefully that's not representative of the whole of the community otherwise this crisis will drag on interminably.

Wise words. Thailand's tragedy is that there is no middle ground anymore. You can be either red or yellow, with nothing in between - a malaise that is echoed in this forum.

All this talk of reconciliation seems like so much wishful thinking and good intention, against a backdrop of two opposite sides who detest each other.

It's such a shame.

This isn't about reds vs yellows. This is a fight between Abhisit (and the current government) and the reds.

I see Abhisit as part of the middle ground. He is creating policies that help the poor (health care, education, managed loans) and also taxing the rich (land tax). Certainly he is supported by the yellows, but their call for him to step down because he didn't do enough (in their opinion) to stop the protests, and the fact that they have their own party, shows that he doesn't have the yellow's full support.

And IMO most of the anti-red posters on TVF do not support the yellows. Some, such as myself, point out some facts about the PAD to red supporters, but that doesn't mean it is support.

I agree, the idea of reconciliation is wishful thinking, when the reds idea of compromise and negotiation is "do everything we demand, and then we will start negotiating".

Edited May 26, 2010 by whybother

[mazeltov]

organised burning and arson, or not, and by who ? the legal system would tell very soon, as they have all the 'heads' with them !

apparently, there were 'organised command' and 'action plan' to perform these burning and arson in such very short time, just with in 4 hours after red leaders surrendered. it was certainly not an simultaneous act, by Isaan farmers and protesters !

perhaps that moron already 'leaked' some hints to us, but just no one read his code :-(

Could it be the men in WHITE that does the arson? and shooting in the Temple? They are not with the Army, just roam with them.

Probably special forces that can blend in with the enemy.

And it would be foollish NOT to have special forces out, because they would better know

how to deal with the EX. special forces hiding in the shadows arrayed against the army regulars.

Yes, it is so clever. just have special forces in plainclothes roaming through the streets, armed with assault rifles, fire around.

the nest way that the government can gather evidence about terrorists or blame unknown third parties if journalists or red cross nurses get killed in the process of enforcing law and order, M(ark)16 Abhisit style.

[Insight]

This isn't about reds vs yellows. This is a fight between Abhisit (and the current government) and the reds.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I think the angle is slightly wrong. This is a fight between Thaksin and, well... Let's let the actions of his henchmen in Chiang Mai do the talking:

[gemini81]

This article is a statement of the obvious...

yeah, we already knew this.

[OzMick]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it? A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not. If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say? They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

#5 post on this thread, and already we have a red apologist changing the subject and throwing up pie in the sky percentages. 1% of 5000 is 50 - there were many more than that armed. Can we now get back on topic? what percentage of "peaceful protesters" decided to go looting and burning?

[gl9999]

Goodness, now that the Reds are dispersed, the Bangkok gov't and it's many journalist supporters are really going on the information warpath.

How many times do we have to say it? A few random Reds had possession of their own weapons, 99% did not. If an outsider would read this article or the many like it flooding the 'news' these days for the first time they would think the Reds were essentially a heartless, callous military.

Why would I believe any opinion or assertion by "Dr." Panitan Wattanayagorn or Colonel Sansorn would say? They are gov't right-hand-men with one-sided objectives.

1% only eh? Riiiiiiight. I love it when Red sympathizers pull statistical numbers out of their asses. One sided indeed!

[NaiGreg]

Please explain to us why there are videos of Arisaman and Nattuwut calling for the burning of BKK BEFORE the rally started? Why Thaksin and others are caught on tape doing the same. Why Veera called for burning the anti-corruption agency?

A. They are pyromaniacs.

B. Insurance fraud gone awry.

C. To kill the cockroaches.

D. To ensure the firefighters get a bigger budget next year.

E. To inflict pain and suffering on the people of Bangkok to further their own fuzzy political ambitions. (or as they say, quite correctly, . . . 'to write a new chapter in the history of Thailand")

This is a tough quiz. I need more time to think about it.

[gl9999]

Now what, too mch talk again. i want to see some arrests, and jail time for the guilty

What difference will it make to you either way, Jail or no Jail, arrests or no arrests, how will it change your life ?

This so called ' Talk ' as you refer to it is an article from The Nation Newspaper. They are so pro government I'm surprised the paper they use for print is white, yellow would be more appropriate.

Then again, if they did not tow the government line, they would have problems, and anything anti government would probably lead to closure, so I can see their reasons for being totally pro government.

Yet so many people here jump on the same bandwagon, believing everything the Government and their propaganda machine says, even if it's false.

Or are we to believe that The Thai government are too honest for that ?

I stay out of all the political thread squabbles going on, as you can see by my post count, I have better things to do with my time than sit for hours on end in front of a PC composing meaningless posts on an anonymous internet forum. ( Although I have done just with this post ).

A small percentage of The Red shirts were armed, but they are Branded as ' Terrorists " it's absurd. Are the Army snipers terrorizing people terrorists too, or is it OK to shoot random people because you have a uniform and know full well that the ruling government have given their blessing ?

I wonder what was promised to the Army Generals for ordering their men to use live ammunition on mostly unarmed protesters, instead of having a Military Coup and calming the situation down that way, it's not like Military Coups are unheard of in Thailand is it, why was this time so different ?

It will be interesting to see if they have lucrative new jobs in the future, or if their bank accounts have increase dramatically.

Or are we again to assume that Thai politics would be above that type of thing ?

All governments and their media outlets lie to the people to justify whatever action they have taken, rightly or wrongly.

That's politics folks, and if you believe everything you hear or read on government controlled media, than you are very poorly informed.

I take a look of the smoldering remains of Central World and I know who the fuc_king bad guys are here. And when 'peaceful' amd 'unarmed' protesters are firing at your men with life ammo, you don't tell your men to respond with rubber bullets.

And this time, we had a government that was right. Why have a military coup? And would that have calmed the situation down?

[gl9999]

Yes, it is so clever. just have special forces in plainclothes roaming through the streets, armed with assault rifles, fire around.

the nest way that the government can gather evidence about terrorists or blame unknown third parties if journalists or red cross nurses get killed in the process of enforcing law and order, M(ark)16 Abhisit style.

LOL! It's now a conspiracy theory now. Can you also make one up to tell us that Central World housed a CIA safehouse and that it was burned down by the government?

[gemini81]

LOL! It's now a conspiracy theory now. Can you also make one up to tell us that Central World housed a CIA safehouse and that it was burned down by the government?

they wanted to burn paragon. Paragon has 80 private well trained staff, and they defended it, and they are trained for emergency situations (like when fires break out in the restaurants, or an armed gunman). On the other hand, Central hires out from a private security company, and they are untrained for fires or emergency situations. they fled. Gaysorn wasn't touched as the owners have sponsered various red shirt causes. I was informed of this by several managers I know at Paragon, thats what they had to say.

I am saying that it sound like central was an easy target, plus the owner supported people who opposed Thaksin.

The managers at Paragon say that central was surrounded with a torchable line of gasoline poured days before, so it sounds like they were lying in wait for some time to do this. And our man from Kent proudly announced his plans on camera days before.

They really planned to burn the city indeed all evidence and common sense wuld point to!

[ETatBKK]

Probably special forces that can blend in with the enemy.

And it would be foollish NOT to have special forces out, because they would better know

how to deal with the EX. special forces hiding in the shadows arrayed against the army regulars.

I don't think I've ever seen 'special forces' types wearing shorts and t-shirts while in action.

this is amazing Thailand :-)

yeah, I saw some of those 'special forces' with shorts and t-shirt, and powerful 'water gun' in Songkran

[OzMick]

Now what, too mch talk again. i want to see some arrests, and jail time for the guilty

What difference will it make to you either way, Jail or no Jail, arrests or no arrests, how will it change your life ?

This so called ' Talk ' as you refer to it is an article from The Nation Newspaper. They are so pro government I'm surprised the paper they use for print is white, yellow would be more appropriate.

Then again, if they did not tow the government line, they would have problems, and anything anti government would probably lead to closure, so I can see their reasons for being totally pro government.

Yet so many people here jump on the same bandwagon, believing everything the Government and their propaganda machine says, even if it's false.

Or are we to believe that The Thai government are too honest for that ?

I stay out of all the political thread squabbles going on, as you can see by my post count, I have better things to do with my time than sit for hours on end in front of a PC composing meaningless posts on an anonymous internet forum. ( Although I have done just with this post ).

A small percentage of The Red shirts were armed, but they are Branded as ' Terrorists " it's absurd. Are the Army snipers terrorizing people terrorists too, or is it OK to shoot random people because you have a uniform and know full well that the ruling government have given their blessing ?

I wonder what was promised to the Army Generals for ordering their men to use live ammunition on mostly unarmed protesters, instead of having a Military Coup and calming the situation down that way, it's not like Military Coups are unheard of in Thailand is it, why was this time so different ?

It will be interesting to see if they have lucrative new jobs in the future, or if their bank accounts have increase dramatically.

Or are we again to assume that Thai politics would be above that type of thing ?

All governments and their media outlets lie to the people to justify whatever action they have taken, rightly or wrongly.

That's politics folks, and if you believe everything you hear or read on government controlled media, than you are very poorly informed.

So many posts start with "I am not a red" or "I stay out of thai politics" and then go on to spin the red line; only a small percentage (usually 1%) were armed, army shooting peaceful protesters, etc, etc, etc ...........................

Instead of wandering off topic, could you please comment on why so many buildings were looted and torched?

By the way, I don't care how old they were, and couldn't give a rat's anus if they were angry or not; in my book arsonists and looters go to jail for a long time if they surrender prior to being shot dead. It cures them of being young if not stupid, and keeps them from re-offending if only for the period of incarceration