Global Warming Threatens Thailand

[whybother]

<snip>

It is understood (and definitely not under debate) that climate change is the result of human activities that are causing CO2 levels to rise along with temperature--leading to global warming and subsequently to climate change.

<snip>

"Climate change is the result of human activities" is exactly what the debate is about.

Global average temperatures are rising - no debate.

Ice sheets and glaciers are melting at a faster rate than they are forming - no debate.

Rising CO2 levels are causing global average temperatures to rise - mostly no debate ... other chemicals / particles in the atmosphere are also a cause.

Rising CO2 levels cause ocean acidification - no debate.

Climate change is affecting many countries (including Thailand) in different ways - no debate.

Whether all of this is caused by humans, and whether humans can actually stop it - That's the DEBATE.

Edited July 11, 2010 by whybother

[Globalhot]

<snip>

It is understood (and definitely not under debate) that climate change is the result of human activities that are causing CO2 levels to rise along with temperature--leading to global warming and subsequently to climate change.

<snip>

"Climate change is the result of human activities" is exactly what the debate is about.

Global average temperatures are rising - no debate.

Ice sheets and glaciers are melting at a faster rate than they are forming - no debate.

Rising CO2 levels are causing global average temperatures to rise - mostly no debate ... other chemicals / particles in the atmosphere are also a cause.

Rising CO2 levels cause ocean acidification - no debate.

Climate change is affecting many countries (including Thailand) in different ways - no debate.

Whether all of this is caused by humans, and whether humans can actually stop it - That's the DEBATE.

I agree with what you said above with one exception: part of the last sentence.

The "changes" over the last 30 years are not due to the sun--no debate.

The "changes" over the last 100 years are not due to the Milankovich cycle--no debate.

The "changes" over the last 30 years are not due to volcanic activity--no debate.

The "changes" over the last 30 years are not due to an asteroid colliding with the earth--no debate.

When all of the possible scenarios are accounted for in the models (and IPCC has done that), there is no option left: growing numbers of humans are using fossil fuels for energy and releasing massive amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere, causing global warming (along with other GHGs), leading to climate change.

Other human activities are also causing warming (e.g., deforestation, agriculture and release of other GHGs, etc).

There does not appear to be any other variable that can account for the rapid rise in warming, especially over the past 30 years.

I agree, there is considerable debate about whether we can stop it before we pass a critical tipping point.

There is also debate about what to do about it, but most people agree we must reduce C02 emissions (and other GHGs) as spelled out in the IPCC reports, Kyoto Protocol, and UNFCC mandate.

I am curious about your opinion of the topic. How will Thailand be impacted by climate change?

[whybother]

There have been global warming events in the past. Just because a few theories are ruled out does not leave ONLY human causes. There is an enormous amount that we don't know about the sun and its effects on the earth, and there are many other cyclic events that we know little about.

Certainly humans are putting more CO2 and other chemicals into the atmosphere, but there are other sources besides volcanic and asteroid events. For example, methane from permafrost areas.

There is still a lot that is not known - hence the debate.

As far as Thailand is concerned, rising sea levels would be the biggest issue. Bangkok is 60cm above sea level, so a small rise would see it under water (more than it already is at times). Where are you going to move 10 million people if Bangkok is under water?

[Globalhot]

There have been global warming events in the past. Just because a few theories are ruled out does not leave ONLY human causes. There is an enormous amount that we don't know about the sun and its effects on the earth, and there are many other cyclic events that we know little about.

Certainly humans are putting more CO2 and other chemicals into the atmosphere, but there are other sources besides volcanic and asteroid events. For example, methane from permafrost areas.

There is still a lot that is not known - hence the debate.

As far as Thailand is concerned, rising sea levels would be the biggest issue. Bangkok is 60cm above sea level, so a small rise would see it under water (more than it already is at times). Where are you going to move 10 million people if Bangkok is under water?

Methane, yes, and that is why I wrote GHGs. In fact, as the permafrost melts and is reduced in size there is less heat reflected out to space, more heat absorbed, more exposed permafrost, more methane, etc.

The sun's energy has been tracked with an extremely high degree of precision and has been ruled out as the main cause of the abrupt rise in temperature, especially over the past 30 years.

There may be other cyclic events we don't know about. Certainly humans do not know everything about their place in the universe. But the Milankovich cycle, the best know as it relates to climate change on earth, is not the cause of the rapid rise in temperature over the past 100 and especially 30 years.

That aside, sea level rise is a real issue and a good addition to this thread. More heating is causing more evaporation. This will lead to more rainfall (most likely patterns and timing will be disrupted) and more flooding from the runoff.

More heating is causing thermal expansion of the oceans. The combination of river run off and the Gulf rising will be dramatic and devastating in terms of Thailand's economy.

Bangkok is also sinking because it sits on an aquifer that is being drained.

So three things are going to happen: 1) Bangkok will continue to sink, 2) river flooding will accelerate, and 3) the Gulf will rise.

So now we have acidification of the Gulf causing massive damage to the fisheries industries and businesses linked to it. And we have Bangkok flooding.

Of course, other areas will also be underwater. I expect Pattaya, Jomtien, Hua Hin, Phuket, etc., to lose much of their beaches in the future. That will not be good for tourism.

[warfie]

I seem to remember a report from a while back that a Thai expert claimed that Thailand would be unaffected by rising sea levels because it is too far from the poles...

[warfie]

Found it... "Too far from melting glaciers"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/117475-gulf-of-thailand-wont-rise-with-global-warming-expert-claims/

[canuckamuck]

Some people think that if they say something often enough it becomes true.

The only thing I will admit there is no debate about is that global temperatures change continually.

[RickBradford]

Amidst all the bed-wetting and wailing about incipient climate catastrophe from the AGW crowd, it is worth remembering that not one single negative effect of climate change has been verified. Not one single problem has occurred.

So while a statement like "More heating is causing thermal expansion of the oceans." is technically true, it leaves out the fact that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has looked into this thoroughly and reports that the numbers seem to be converging on something in the range of 0.4-.0.6mm/year as the average since 1965.

That equates to about 1 inch per 100 years, if warming resumes; hardly a tsunami.

This is the same NOAA whose figures show that 2009 was the coldest year in a decade, and they expect 2010 to be colder, perhaps the coldest since 1996.

Individuals who want to live their lives in a state of abject, leg-crossing terror about climate doom have that right, but governments such as Thailand's would be well advised to remain in the world of the rational and factual, and spend zero dollars dealing with this non-problem.

Edited July 11, 2010 by RickBradford

[Globalhot]

Still no answer to the question posed by WhyBother.

And no scientific response to anything that has been posted.

You must have a PhD in "fact distortion."

Totally boring and

[seeker2]

What is really causing global warming is the area of space our solar system is moving into. It along with the sun entering an active sun spot cycle should create some fire works for us all. All the planets in the solar system are heating up even Pluto which is now moving away from the sun. Scientists are predicting a big CME within the next two years. That could put us all back in the stone age. so buckle up.

[lonewolf99]

Sheesh ...I am sure glad I read through this lot....Because I was beginning to feel like I was the only Global Warming Sceptic on the planet.

Complete "tosh and bloody boulderdash" Sea Levels rising....!!!!!

I was taught that Coral Islands in the South Pacific were the remains of long dead Volcanos that were "sowly" sinking below the waves. I still own books showing and explaining this.

But now its down to glaciers melting...which have done so for the last 12,000 fricking years....

As for Bangladesh and parts of Thailand "sinking" - this might just have something to do with chopping all the trees down and getting rid of the mangrove trees that hold the soil together by their extensive root systems.......

It was recently proven that Mangrove trees protected areas from the fateful Tsunami by breaking up the force of the waves. But every where that was open and exposed was washed over. Badly.

I grew up watching mad scientists on the T.V. in the 70's predicting the " Next Ice Age"......40 years later and its all change our ideas for.......... money....Carbon Taxes...

Its not Global warming that is the problem - its global vandalism to the eco system and the animals.

:jap:

[frankman]

Sheesh ...I am sure glad I read through this lot....Because I was beginning to feel like I was the only Global Warming Sceptic on the planet.

Complete "tosh and bloody boulderdash"  Sea Levels rising....!!!!!

I was taught that Coral Islands in the South Pacific were the remains of long dead Volcanos that were "sowly" sinking below the waves. I still own books showing and explaining this.

But now its down to glaciers melting...which have done so for the last 12,000 fricking years....

As for Bangladesh and parts of Thailand "sinking" - this might just have something to do with chopping all the trees down and getting rid of the mangrove trees that hold the soil together by their extensive root systems.......

It was recently proven that Mangrove trees protected areas from the fateful Tsunami by breaking up the force of the waves. But every where that was open and exposed was washed over. Badly.

I grew up watching mad scientists on the T.V. in the 70's predicting the " Next Ice Age"......40 years later and its all change our ideas for.......... money....Carbon Taxes...

Its not Global warming that is the problem - its global vandalism to the eco system and the animals.

:jap:

Humanity is digging it's own grave because of greed! 

[Peshay]

Rising heat levels drives up C02 levels...FACT! So if it's not our man-made C02 emmisions driving up heat levels what's causing it? Natural cycles maybe!

Oh and your lucky if humans are responsible for as much as 10% of C02 levels in the atmosphere..The largest contributor would be the oceans

[Globalhot]

Humanity is digging it's own grave because of greed!

Interesting statement that I fully agree with.

As stated earlier, there is no debate about the cause of global warming and associated climate change: humans acting like insane creatures.

Part of that insanity is unrestrained greed. Of course, the greed of the fossil fuel industry is a huge part of the problem (and the politicians that are supporting it).

But most of us are also to blame because we take far too much from the earth than we need.

In scientific circles, our ideas (how we think about the world and our position in it) are being introduced as part of the problem of climate change.

There is a destructive psychology underpinning the problem.

We can see it on many of the previous posts (not yours) reflected here in the form of total denial of the problem, an strange unwillingness to take the time to understand the scientific data or accept it, and paranoia.

Clearly destroying that which allows life to exist on this planet is an insane act.

But we are, once again, getting off topic.

We have established that global warming/climate change will negatively impact Thailand in at least two ways: flooding of low-lying areas like Bangkok; acidification of the Gulf and loss of fisheries.

What else?

[RickBradford]

^^

Thanks, JR, either asinine stupidity or or patronizing garbage would have been sufficient, both is surely gilding the toadstool.

Neither the sinking of Bangkok nor fish stocks in the Gulf of Thailand have any relation to the fantasy you like to call 'global warming induced climate change'.

Bangkok's problems stem from the well-documented mass building on spongy under-soil and the ongoing pumping of groundwater, Fisheries suffer from overfishing, pollution, habitat degradation, the usual problems found worldwide.

No need for any climate bogeymen, unless you have some small children you want to frighten.

Edited July 12, 2010 by RickBradford

[Globalhot]

^^

Thanks, JR, either asinine stupidity or or patronizing garbage would have been sufficient, both is surely gilding the toadstool.

Neither the sinking of Bangkok nor fish stocks in the Gulf of Thailand have any relation to the fantasy you like to call 'global warming induced climate change'.

Bangkok's problems stem from the well-documented mass building on spongy under-soil and the ongoing pumping of groundwater, Fisheries suffer from overfishing, pollution, habitat degradation, the usual problems found worldwide.

No need for any climate bogeymen, unless you have some small children you want to frighten.

Thank you "Bobbie." Seriously, your posts with references to JR are strange beyond imagination (psychotic). I think you should get some help.

[RickBradford]

I should have explained -- it's rather like you use 'global warming induced climate change' as shorthand for 'global warming' and 'climate change'.

I use 'JR' as shorthand for a collection (I should say series) of tedious trolls on this forum who pontificate in identical style from a position of high ignorance about a consistent set of subjects -- global warming, drought, Big Oil, Pattaya, real estate and dishonest Thais. A sad and sorry crew which includes the original JR Texas, Tejas, BgTx, mridiot, Extraterrestrial and likely some others.

As you share identical views with these nimrods, it's odd you don't hang out together more often. But you can't, can you, because strangely, when a new incarnation appears, the old one stops posting.

Someone with a more suspicious mind than mine would conclude that it was in fact a single individual, serially adopting new usernames in the hope of erasing blithering idiocies they had previously posted.

Hope that clears things up. By the way, do you like Mexican food?

Back to the topic at hand.

A number of studies have been carried out in the last 10 years about the effect of elevated CO2 levels on the oceans.

They note:

In conclusion, and has been found to be the case for essentially all types of marine phytoplankton, the real-world data that have been obtained to date suggest that earth's diatoms will manage just fine as the air's CO2 content continues to climb to ever-greater heights. And as diatoms serve as primary producers in numerous marine food chains, the several trophic levels above them should also be similarly benefited by the dreaded phenomenon of "ocean acidification."

Edited July 12, 2010 by RickBradford

[Globalhot]

Seriously, you need to seek out help for your psychosis.

Your obsession with JR is more than strange.

In fact, it is the strangest series of posts I have ever seen on any forum.

I think you are losing it.

Can you see my avatar like all other poster can?

Let me help you: Globalhot

[canuckamuck]

JR get a new hobby, how many times have you been banned anyways?

[Globalhot]

JR get a new hobby, how many times have you been banned anyways?

Wow........another psycho. Hello, Ms. Ellie?

No wonder your posts are off the wall

I am new but I think I can put both of you on ignore and allow you to engage in your psychotic ramblings.

Thank you for letting the world know what type of people the "skeptics" are.

Really, get some help.

[RickBradford]

From 'the weather isn't climate' department, southern California is experiencing a series of record low July temperatures.

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE LOS ANGELES/OXNARD CA

330 AM PDT THU JUL 8 2010

YESTERDAY WAS ANOTHER IN A STRING OF VERY COOL EARLY JULY DAYS IN SOUTHWESTERN CALIFORNIA. MANY NEW DAILY RECORD LOW MAXIMUM

TEMPERATURE RECORDS WERE SET OR TIED YESTERDAY.

STATION NEW OLD

RECORD (2010) RECORD YEAR

LOS ANGELES DOWNTOWN/USC 70 71 1916

LOS ANGELES AIRPORT 65 67 1987

BURBANK AIRPORT 72 76 1944

SAN GABRIEL 72 80 1944

UCLA 66 69 1960

SANTA MONICA PIER 63 (TIED) 63 1965

SANTA MARIA 66 (TIED) 66 1956

SAN LUIS OBISPO CAL POLY 67 69 1974

Of course, a few cold days in California is no more an indicator of global cooling than the current US East Coast heatwave is of global warming; it's just weather, as most rational people would agree.

Unfortunately, that group of rational people doesn't include that deluded old fraud Michael 'Hockey Stick' Mann, who has given an interview to CleanSkies in which he blames the East Coast heatwave on man-made global warming, proving the old adage that you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can fool yourself all the time.

Mann gets his lines right -- all the conspiracy theories, including alluding to the "big tobacco connection", the tired old routine about fossil fuel interests driving "denial", lack of Arctic sea ice a threat to US national security etc etc

Really, it could be JR in disguise (or should I say, another disguise), and all he achieves is to make the AGW position look more irrational and idiotic by the minute (I'm talking about Mann, in this case). He really has no shame, this guy. (Mann again).

Thailand has many things to worry about; man-made global warming isn't one of them.

[teatree]

JR get a new hobby, how many times have you been banned anyways?

Wow........another psycho. Hello, Ms. Ellie?

No wonder your posts are off the wall

I am new but I think I can put both of you on ignore and allow you to engage in your psychotic ramblings.

Thank you for letting the world know what type of people the "skeptics" are.

Really, get some help.

Come on JR, it is clearly you. The same illogical ramblings, the same blind acceptance of any pro warmist propaganda that you stumble upon.

You've been rumbled. Time to retire this account and make a new one.....like you have a number of times before.

[Globalhot]

JR get a new hobby, how many times have you been banned anyways?

Wow........another psycho. Hello, Ms. Ellie?

No wonder your posts are off the wall

I am new but I think I can put both of you on ignore and allow you to engage in your psychotic ramblings.

Thank you for letting the world know what type of people the "skeptics" are.

Really, get some help.

Come on JR, it is clearly you. The same illogical ramblings, the same blind acceptance of any pro warmist propaganda that you stumble upon.

You've been rumbled. Time to retire this account and make a new one.....like you have a number of times before.

Another psycho on this thread!

Is this one Jock? This is too much to believe.

I can only assume RichBradford, Cannuckmuck and TeaTree are the same person.

I did see three straitjackets for sale at a used clothing store in Bangkok (any connection?).

RB, you really need help with your JR fixation. What you are doing is psychotic.

Whatever, I now have all three of you (or is it only one?) on ignore.

Perhaps if none of you have anything to say, you should leave.

[canuckamuck]

Deuteronomy 17:6

On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.

[Globalhot]

Those of us who are smart enough to get an avatar right have established that human induced global warming is real, and that it is causing negative changes on many fronts.

Human induced (largely via the use of fossil fuels and release of CO2) global warming threatens Thailand in at least two ways:

1) acidification of the Gulf leading to a massive decline in fish stocks and possible collapse of the fisheries industries, and

2) flooding along the coast--especially problematic for Bangkok (massive economic impact) and beach towns (will hurt tourism for sure).

What else is likely to happen?

What about more and increasingly severe droughts and water shortages?

Agriculture?

Migration from other surrounding countries (environmental refugees)?

Political implications?

[Sabre]

Global Warming is a myth . (Just getting that in for all the TV 'sceptics")

Anyone who still discounts the science - should just watch this.

Poppycock!

[Sabre]

Rising heat levels drives up C02 levels...FACT! So if it's not our man-made C02 emmisions driving up heat levels what's causing it? Natural cycles maybe!

Oh and your lucky if humans are responsible for as much as 10% of C02 levels in the atmosphere..The largest contributor would be the oceans

I believe the figure is 3.8% ... something like that. Humans emit 3.8% of the total CO2 released into the atmosphere every year.

[Globalhot]

<br>

<br>Rising heat levels drives up C02 levels...FACT!   So if it's not our man-made C02 emmisions driving up heat levels what's causing it? Natural cycles maybe!<br><br>Oh and your lucky if humans are responsible for as much as 10% of C02 levels in the atmosphere..The largest contributor would be the oceans<br>

<br><br>I believe the figure is 3.8% ... something like that. Humans emit 3.8% of the total CO2 released into the atmosphere every year.<br>

Breathe in (oxygen) and breathe out (carbon dioxide), that is what many organisms on the planet do (duh, doh!).

There are many NATURAL processes that emit GHGs.  Cows and termites farting (duh doh!).

The main issue is the recent release of formerly sequestered carbon in the atmosphere.

That is not natural and relates to our reliance of fossil fuels for energy.

Along with other GHGs (e.g, methane), the release of formerly sequestered carbon is causing CO2 to rise way beyond "natural levels."

That is causing global warming.

That is a scientific fact that is not in debate by scientists.

Global warming is leading many climate problems, social problems, economic problems, etc.

Back to Thailand and the subject: Human induced (largely via the use of fossil fuels and release of CO2) global warming threatens Thailand in at least two ways:

1) acidification of the Gulf leading to a massive decline in fish stocks and possible collapse of the fisheries industries, and

2) flooding along the coast--especially problematic for Bangkok (massive economic impact) and beach towns (will hurt tourism for sure).

What else is likely to happen?

What about more and increasingly severe droughts and water shortages?

Agriculture?

Migration from other surrounding countries (environmental refugees)?

Political implications?

Edited July 13, 2010 by Globalhot

[Sabre]

<br>

<br>Rising heat levels drives up C02 levels...FACT!   So if it's not our man-made C02 emmisions driving up heat levels what's causing it? Natural cycles maybe!<br><br>Oh and your lucky if humans are responsible for as much as 10% of C02 levels in the atmosphere..The largest contributor would be the oceans<br>

<br><br>I believe the figure is 3.8% ... something like that. Humans emit 3.8% of the total CO2 released into the atmosphere every year.<br>

Breathe in (oxygen) and breathe out (carbon dioxide), that is what many organisms on the planet do (duh, doh!).

There are many NATURAL processes that emit GHGs.  Cows and termites farting (duh doh!).

The main issue is the recent release of formerly sequestered carbon in the atmosphere.

That is not natural and relates to our reliance of fossil fuels for energy.

Along with other GHGs (e.g, methane), the release of formerly sequestered carbon is causing CO2 to rise way beyond "natural levels."

That is causing global warming.

That is a scientific fact that is not in debate by scientists.

Global warming is leading many climate problems, social problems, economic problems, etc.

Back to Thailand and the subject: Human induced (largely via the use of fossil fuels and release of CO2) global warming threatens Thailand in at least two ways:

1) acidification of the Gulf leading to a massive decline in fish stocks and possible collapse of the fisheries industries, and

2) flooding along the coast--especially problematic for Bangkok (massive economic impact) and beach towns (will hurt tourism for sure).

What else is likely to happen?

What about more and increasingly severe droughts and water shortages?

Agriculture?

Migration from other surrounding countries (environmental refugees)?

Political implications?

Ah yes, all the evils of the world can be traced back to global warming. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KLxicwiBQ7Q

3.8% ... and that INCLUDES the burning of fossil fuels. (Duh, Doh)!

Edited July 13, 2010 by Sabre

[Globalhot]

3.8% ... and that INCLUDES the burning of fossil fuels. (Duh, Doh)!

Which one are you? JR, Ms. Ellie, Jock, or Bobbie? Maybe RickBradford in disguise

My answer: So what?

Look up the word sequestered.

Put it together with the release of carbon from burning fossil fuels.

See how that increases CO2 in the atmosphere and heating beyond that which would have occurred naturally without the addition of formerly sequestered carbon.

We have broken out of a natural carbon cycle due to human activities.

It is actually simple to comprehend and not in debate by any scientist I know of.

Back to Thailand and the subject: Human induced (largely via the use of fossil fuels and release of CO2) global warming threatens Thailand in at least two ways:

1) acidification of the Gulf leading to a massive decline in fish stocks and possible collapse of the fisheries industries, and

2) flooding along the coast--especially problematic for Bangkok (massive economic impact) and beach towns (will hurt tourism for sure).

What else is likely to happen?

What about more and increasingly severe droughts and water shortages?

Agriculture?

Migration from other surrounding countries (environmental refugees)?

Political implications?