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Nightlife In Hua Hin


sam666

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A couple of us, 3 lads and a girl are going to be staying in Hua Hin (my dad’s house, about 5km from beach and town I think) what can we do for decent night life? Not interested in hookers (why pay for something you can get free in any country ....). First time we’ve been to Thailand as well, what’s the cheapest way to get taxis between 4?

thanks

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You will pay about 200 - 250 Baht for a tuk tuk or taxi one way to get you to and from the town centre. If you're going into town every day, you can probably negotiate on this for a regular service. There should be plenty of business cards for these in your dad's place and (I assume the house is in a gated community) in the clubhouse.

The main tourist nightlife area is in the streets around the Hilton hotel. Whilst many of these bars are 'girly bars' (it's obvious which are and which aren't), it's quite possible to just have a drink and a game of pool in them. There is a row of late night bars known as Soi Headrock just down the road from the Hilton, hidden away to the left of the road. A couple of of these are quite plush, and you can watch major sports events in these bars. The Hilton has a disco with live band, and, though it's expensive and the band plays the same covers every night, this place is ok for a change. The two nightmarkets (one in front of the Grand Plaza hotel, the other just to the north of the town centre) have some nightlife in and around them. There is a little up-and-coming bar/restaurant area on Soi 90, which is south of the Grand Plaza. There are also plenty of Thai-oriented bar/restaurants on the road, at the back of the train track, that you will probably cross/go along to get to the town centre.

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There are also plenty of Thai-oriented bar/restaurants on the road, at the back of the train track, that you will probably cross/go along to get to the town centre.

Siam Simon, good orientation on Hua Hin nightlife.

On the road to Black Mountain approx 5 km from town, there is a place called Countryclub something with live band after 10pm. On occasions I have seen farang approach ladies in this place and rather soon been attacked by their thai BF and his friends. Some army/navy guys frequent this place in addition to local police, and approaching a thai woman can easily give you 3 guns in your face. Firearm check at the door, but not for the hotshots.

I like this place very much, but be aware this is Thailand and not a tourist trap with easy girls. So dont touch any women in a Thai place, before they hold on to you.

Miss the place, havent been there since December

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You will pay about 200 - 250 Baht for a tuk tuk or taxi one way to get you to and from the town centre. If you're going into town every day, you can probably negotiate on this for a regular service. There should be plenty of business cards for these in your dad's place and (I assume the house is in a gated community) in the clubhouse.

The main tourist nightlife area is in the streets around the Hilton hotel. Whilst many of these bars are 'girly bars' (it's obvious which are and which aren't), it's quite possible to just have a drink and a game of pool in them. There is a row of late night bars known as Soi Headrock just down the road from the Hilton, hidden away to the left of the road. A couple of of these are quite plush, and you can watch major sports events in these bars. The Hilton has a disco with live band, and, though it's expensive and the band plays the same covers every night, this place is ok for a change. The two nightmarkets (one in front of the Grand Plaza hotel, the other just to the north of the town centre) have some nightlife in and around them. There is a little up-and-coming bar/restaurant area on Soi 90, which is south of the Grand Plaza. There are also plenty of Thai-oriented bar/restaurants on the road, at the back of the train track, that you will probably cross/go along to get to the town centre.

Great info thanks, would a taxi driver understand stuff like Soi Headrock? It's my mates birthday on the 24th and probably the first night out we have there, any suggestions?

Yes it's a gated community in a place called "Tippawan Village" in "Smor Prong" . Means nothing to me but :D

There are also plenty of Thai-oriented bar/restaurants on the road, at the back of the train track, that you will probably cross/go along to get to the town centre.

Siam Simon, good orientation on Hua Hin nightlife.

On the road to Black Mountain approx 5 km from town, there is a place called Countryclub something with live band after 10pm. On occasions I have seen farang approach ladies in this place and rather soon been attacked by their thai BF and his friends. Some army/navy guys frequent this place in addition to local police, and approaching a thai woman can easily give you 3 guns in your face. Firearm check at the door, but not for the hotshots.

I like this place very much, but be aware this is Thailand and not a tourist trap with easy girls. So dont touch any women in a Thai place, before they hold on to you.

Miss the place, havent been there since December

Interesting, somewhere ill be avoiding lol :)

I also heard thai women talk to you in clubs then try and charge you and if you don't pay you get jumped by her pimps ...

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The vast majority will know Soi Headrock or Headrock Bar. But if you're unlucky enough to get one who doesn't, just ask for Hilton Hotel. Those bars are a two minute walk from there as per my directions.

Many, many single girls in the tourist resorts are there to make money from foreigners, including in the disco at the Hilton. Heed katabeachbum's advice very well.

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On the road to Black Mountain approx 5 km from town, there is a place called Countryclub something with live band after 10pm

katabeachbum, when you say on the road to Black Mountain do you mean the main road that goes to the bypass? 5km would be in the vicinity of La Valee housing estate. Is it near there?

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On the road to Black Mountain approx 5 km from town, there is a place called Countryclub something with live band after 10pm

katabeachbum, when you say on the road to Black Mountain do you mean the main road that goes to the bypass? 5km would be in the vicinity of La Valee housing estate. Is it near there?

Thats the road, but long before Le Valee while road is still 2 lanes each direction. Nice garden outside, right side when heading out of town.

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Little update, I couldn't find "soi headrock" but I found "soi bintabaht" and that was interesting night to say the least haha. I haven't been that drunk in quite some time and im a student .... I spent about 6grand baht and was drinking glasses of whiskey from inbetween the legs of a lady boy called Jessica. I was then convinced to play a game of pool for sex and when I started loosing, my girl mate saw enough and stepped in to win it (thank god). I believe the bar was called Pink Panther or one near it, however the ladyboys were pretty open and cool about everything, so no major suprises lol ...

I've been through "dechanuchit road" I think in a taxi and that looked interesting and loud, worth a visit for a night?

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Sam,

Bit of friendly advice:

3 lads and a girl ..... the girl is obviously someones girlfirend.... so 2 single lads.

If you are not interested in "hookers" (I perosnally don't think the term applies in Thialand in the same way that it does back home) then the 2 single lads stand little to no chance of picking up a bird. I'll just be honest - there are essetnailly two types of Thai girls that you will find in tourist areas - easy girls and impossible ones. The latter are the type that (a) are not interested in foriegn men, (b ) are interested in foreign men but not interested in one night stands..... or one night kisses on the cheek for that matter - suffice it to say that these girld will (generally) not approach you and unless you know the culture you are probably better off not to appraoch them (it could wind you up in touble). The "easy" girls are more difficult to calssify - they are not all looking for a "nights wages" as such, but those who are not looking for the nights wages will be looking to latch onto you for more than just one night..... expats and and seasoned tourists often refer to these girls as either long ball players or short ball players..... but if you are taking a moral high ground and do not wish to assocaite yourself with a female of less than perfect moral virtue.... well then its a good bet your in for a "sex free" holiday unless you meet up with a western girl.....

As a note aside, its ironic (and hypocritical) that when a Thai girl from a not-so-posh back ground looks for a bit of fun she is labelled a "hooker" but if you meet up with a western girl and "get your wicked way" within a few hours of meeting her then she is "good fun, nice girl, and really funny"..... :rolleyes: ......... more ironic still, and even more hypocritical is when a bloke goes takes the moral high ground, and frowns upon an "easy" girl, yet is more than willing to bed the easiest option...... I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU ARE A HYPOCRIT OR CASTING DISPERSIONS ON YOU SAM666...... merely pointing toward a world of contradiction and double standards that is the farang in thailand ...... I would humbly suggest that you keep an open mind while here in Thailand, because many of the "bar girls" I know are no less devious, calculating, or self centred than any "one night stand" I've ever had "back home" ..... if you want to have real fun in Thailand, you don't have to "take a hooker home" but in my humble opinion, you will have great fun sitting in a reasonably conservative girly bar, playing pool or connect 4 with the girls in there, buy them a couple of drinks and make your intentions (politely) clear from the start..... tell them you have a girl friend, or a wife, or something like that ...... and just have fun without prejuidice.

A a further note aside, Hua Hin is not Pattaya, Soi Bangla, or Nana Plaza ...... the bar girls are not outright predators in Hua Hin..... which is what I base my comments above on.

Have fun in the land of smiles.......

Edited by corkman
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Sam,

Bit of friendly advice:

3 lads and a girl ..... the girl is obviously someones girlfirend.... so 2 single lads.

If you are not interested in "hookers" (I perosnally don't think the term applies in Thialand in the same way that it does back home) then the 2 single lads stand little to no chance of picking up a bird. I'll just be honest - there are essetnailly two types of Thai girls that you will find in tourist areas - easy girls and impossible ones. The latter are the type that (a) are not interested in foriegn men, (b ) are interested in foreign men but not interested in one night stands..... or one night kisses on the cheek for that matter - suffice it to say that these girld will (generally) not approach you and unless you know the culture you are probably better off not to appraoch them (it could wind you up in touble). The "easy" girls are more difficult to calssify - they are not all looking for a "nights wages" as such, but those who are not looking for the nights wages will be looking to latch onto you for more than just one night..... expats and and seasoned tourists often refer to these girls as either long ball players or short ball players..... but if you are taking a moral high ground and do not wish to assocaite yourself with a female of less than perfect moral virtue.... well then its a good bet your in for a "sex free" holiday unless you meet up with a western girl.....

As a note aside, its ironic (and hypocritical) that when a Thai girl from a not-so-posh back ground looks for a bit of fun she is labelled a "hooker" but if you meet up with a western girl and "get your wicked way" within a few hours of meeting her then she is "good fun, nice girl, and really funny"..... :rolleyes: ......... more ironic still, and even more hypocritical is when a bloke goes takes the moral high ground, and frowns upon an "easy" girl, yet is more than willing to bed the easiest option...... I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU ARE A HYPOCRIT OR CASTING DISPERSIONS ON YOU SAM666...... merely pointing toward a world of contradiction and double standards that is the farang in thailand ...... I would humbly suggest that you keep an open mind while here in Thailand, because many of the "bar girls" I know are no less devious, calculating, or self centred than any "one night stand" I've ever had "back home" ..... if you want to have real fun in Thailand, you don't have to "take a hooker home" but in my humble opinion, you will have great fun sitting in a reasonably conservative girly bar, playing pool or connect 4 with the girls in there, buy them a couple of drinks and make your intentions (politely) clear from the start..... tell them you have a girl friend, or a wife, or something like that ...... and just have fun without prejuidice.

A a further note aside, Hua Hin is not Pattaya, Soi Bangla, or Nana Plaza ...... the bar girls are not outright predators in Hua Hin..... which is what I base my comments above on.

Have fun in the land of smiles.......

While i agree with a lot of what you say corkman the one slight difference is that you would have to pay for the Thai girl;) .

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Sam,

Bit of friendly advice:

3 lads and a girl ..... the girl is obviously someones girlfirend.... so 2 single lads.

If you are not interested in "hookers" (I perosnally don't think the term applies in Thialand in the same way that it does back home) then the 2 single lads stand little to no chance of picking up a bird. I'll just be honest - there are essetnailly two types of Thai girls that you will find in tourist areas - easy girls and impossible ones. The latter are the type that (a) are not interested in foriegn men, (b ) are interested in foreign men but not interested in one night stands..... or one night kisses on the cheek for that matter - suffice it to say that these girld will (generally) not approach you and unless you know the culture you are probably better off not to appraoch them (it could wind you up in touble). The "easy" girls are more difficult to calssify - they are not all looking for a "nights wages" as such, but those who are not looking for the nights wages will be looking to latch onto you for more than just one night..... expats and and seasoned tourists often refer to these girls as either long ball players or short ball players..... but if you are taking a moral high ground and do not wish to assocaite yourself with a female of less than perfect moral virtue.... well then its a good bet your in for a "sex free" holiday unless you meet up with a western girl.....

As a note aside, its ironic (and hypocritical) that when a Thai girl from a not-so-posh back ground looks for a bit of fun she is labelled a "hooker" but if you meet up with a western girl and "get your wicked way" within a few hours of meeting her then she is "good fun, nice girl, and really funny"..... :rolleyes: ......... more ironic still, and even more hypocritical is when a bloke goes takes the moral high ground, and frowns upon an "easy" girl, yet is more than willing to bed the easiest option...... I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU ARE A HYPOCRIT OR CASTING DISPERSIONS ON YOU SAM666...... merely pointing toward a world of contradiction and double standards that is the farang in thailand ...... I would humbly suggest that you keep an open mind while here in Thailand, because many of the "bar girls" I know are no less devious, calculating, or self centred than any "one night stand" I've ever had "back home" ..... if you want to have real fun in Thailand, you don't have to "take a hooker home" but in my humble opinion, you will have great fun sitting in a reasonably conservative girly bar, playing pool or connect 4 with the girls in there, buy them a couple of drinks and make your intentions (politely) clear from the start..... tell them you have a girl friend, or a wife, or something like that ...... and just have fun without prejuidice.

A a further note aside, Hua Hin is not Pattaya, Soi Bangla, or Nana Plaza ...... the bar girls are not outright predators in Hua Hin..... which is what I base my comments above on.

Have fun in the land of smiles.......

Interesting read, thanks, always nice to get a proper western insight on Thailand, we lost our moral high ground with "hookers" after about the 2nd day here :lol: I generally don't mind bar girls or ladyboys (playing pool only lol ...) as i only want some fun and at the moment that's what i'm getting. Thai girls seem so much more fun then western girls and you generally end up spending more on western girls anyway, however I haven't met any non "bar girl workers" yet which is a bit of a shame.

You mention Nana Plaza, i'm visiting Nana and Cowboy next week in BKK, is it that bad? :lol:

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Interesting read, thanks, always nice to get a proper western insight on Thailand, we lost our moral high ground with "hookers" after about the 2nd day here :lol: I generally don't mind bar girls or ladyboys (playing pool only lol ...) as i only want some fun and at the moment that's what i'm getting. Thai girls seem so much more fun then western girls and you generally end up spending more on western girls anyway, however I haven't met any non "bar girl workers" yet which is a bit of a shame.

You mention Nana Plaza, i'm visiting Nana and Cowboy next week in BKK, is it that bad? :lol:

You will go there a Boy and come back a Man :o.

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More like go there a boy and "Feel" a man that said get into afterskool bar that will certainly open your eyes :D

On Huahin after 1am go down by the Karaoke past the Hilton you will pick up some girls who will tuck you in for a couple of drinks, 6k baht easy spent if drinking in the Hilton plus the totty is not that good. Also a few good bars on soi 80 sports bar is ok athough can be i quote very quiet.

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You won't find "good thai girls" in the Binthabaht area. But you can find quite nice girls who could use a small gift.

Nana will open your eyes, indeed. Then head to Pattaya for the full on experience.

Is there a "moral high ground" in Thailand? Only in the western mind that thinks life is a video.

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Is there a "moral high ground" in Thailand? Only in the western mind that thinks life is a video.

:lol: Not just in thailand ..... and not just westerners think life is a video ..... :whistling:

But yes, that just about sums it up in a line...... and howhere is the truth closer to the surface and easier to see than here in the LOS.....

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Interesting read, thanks, always nice to get a proper western insight on Thailand, we lost our moral high ground with "hookers" after about the 2nd day here :lol: I generally don't mind bar girls or ladyboys (playing pool only lol ...) as i only want some fun and at the moment that's what i'm getting. Thai girls seem so much more fun then western girls and you generally end up spending more on western girls anyway, however I haven't met any non "bar girl workers" yet which is a bit of a shame.

You mention Nana Plaza, i'm visiting Nana and Cowboy next week in BKK, is it that bad? :lol:

LOL ........... very glad you seem to have "settled" into things here. Particularly so with the realisation of "Thai girls seem so much more fun then western girls and you generally end up spending more on western girls anyway" .......... most of the bar girls will eventually get the fiddle out and start playing the "my granny is sick" ...... "my niece is sick"..... "my moms buffaloe is sick" ....... or some other yarn, at some stage...... its all part of the routine..... comes with the territory - just like the car sales man trying to sell you extras when your buying a new car...... :) But for my part at least, I'd rather an upfront bar girl than some good looking bird from back home that basically wouldn't sh!t on your average bloke unless he's got good money, spends too much time looking in the mirror, crawls behind her and bows to her every whim, buys her untold amounts of crap, pays for everything like drinks and dinner, provides her with a taxi service ...... and then at the end of it all gets told "....I'm no mans' woman, I'm independent and strong, and bla bla bla......." but this is usually mentioned AFTER the bill in the 5 star resaraunt has been paid and she's only drank half the bottle of 50 quid wine that she demanded....... I dunno, who is the bigger fool ..... the guy giving his bar girl friend for an imaginary sick buffaloe or the mug letting his blonde bimbo live the life of a 'foot ballers wife' ...... at the least the bar girl says thanks at the end of it, and will actually have fun and play pool, go clubbing, and have a laugh. So yep - I think a new dawn is upon you my friend ;)

Nana Plaza and Coyboy - "bad" depends on your opinion and perspective I suppose. The bar girls are a bit more "in your face", less friendly and more business like...... can be pleasent, but less genuine that the girls in bars like Hua Hin etc. (maybe genuine is not the right word to use......) Nana is more "bars" as such, Cowboy is almost exclusively go-go bars..... 100% naked girls pole dancing...... better to hit Nana a earlier in my opinion, before it gets really busy...... and Cowboy later when it is busy, and you're a bit pi$$ed :)

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Troll

Someone who states not interested in "Hookers" so goes straight to Bintabaht, then announces he is to visit Nana and Cowboy. Not interested in Hookers, what else is there to do, ignore them and watch TV.

I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt...... the preconceived notion that a lot of people have about thailand and the whole bar girl scene is, in my opinion, very much removed from the reality of what it is...... and when people get here and realise it is not like the crap that some do-gooder idealist has fed them, then they start to wake up and accept that fun can actually be had and if you partake you are no necessarily a closet case pedophile or a dirty old man ....... all who enjoy the night life are not Gary Glitter wanna-be's ........ but well over half the people I speak to back home automatically assume that almost every bar is full of 60+ fat bald old men with two 12-to-15 year old virgin girls on his lap for the price of a lollipop........

In my opinion, Thailand does have an image problem, or more importantly a reputation problem..... and crap like that "big trouble tourist thailand" is exaclty what is not needed. I like the bar girl scene ..... I think its great ...... but I left it all behind 10yrs ago when I got married and had kids......

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Sam,

Bit of friendly advice:

3 lads and a girl ..... the girl is obviously someones girlfirend.... so 2 single lads.

If you are not interested in "hookers" (I perosnally don't think the term applies in Thialand in the same way that it does back home) then the 2 single lads stand little to no chance of picking up a bird. I'll just be honest - there are essetnailly two types of Thai girls that you will find in tourist areas - easy girls and impossible ones. The latter are the type that (a) are not interested in foriegn men, (b ) are interested in foreign men but not interested in one night stands..... or one night kisses on the cheek for that matter - suffice it to say that these girld will (generally) not approach you and unless you know the culture you are probably better off not to appraoch them (it could wind you up in touble). The "easy" girls are more difficult to calssify - they are not all looking for a "nights wages" as such, but those who are not looking for the nights wages will be looking to latch onto you for more than just one night..... expats and and seasoned tourists often refer to these girls as either long ball players or short ball players..... but if you are taking a moral high ground and do not wish to assocaite yourself with a female of less than perfect moral virtue.... well then its a good bet your in for a "sex free" holiday unless you meet up with a western girl.....

As a note aside, its ironic (and hypocritical) that when a Thai girl from a not-so-posh back ground looks for a bit of fun she is labelled a "hooker" but if you meet up with a western girl and "get your wicked way" within a few hours of meeting her then she is "good fun, nice girl, and really funny"..... :rolleyes: ......... more ironic still, and even more hypocritical is when a bloke goes takes the moral high ground, and frowns upon an "easy" girl, yet is more than willing to bed the easiest option...... I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU ARE A HYPOCRIT OR CASTING DISPERSIONS ON YOU SAM666...... merely pointing toward a world of contradiction and double standards that is the farang in thailand ...... I would humbly suggest that you keep an open mind while here in Thailand, because many of the "bar girls" I know are no less devious, calculating, or self centred than any "one night stand" I've ever had "back home" ..... if you want to have real fun in Thailand, you don't have to "take a hooker home" but in my humble opinion, you will have great fun sitting in a reasonably conservative girly bar, playing pool or connect 4 with the girls in there, buy them a couple of drinks and make your intentions (politely) clear from the start..... tell them you have a girl friend, or a wife, or something like that ...... and just have fun without prejuidice.

A a further note aside, Hua Hin is not Pattaya, Soi Bangla, or Nana Plaza ...... the bar girls are not outright predators in Hua Hin..... which is what I base my comments above on.

Have fun in the land of smiles.......

Interesting read, thanks, always nice to get a proper western insight on Thailand, we lost our moral high ground with "hookers" after about the 2nd day here :lol: I generally don't mind bar girls or ladyboys (playing pool only lol ...) as i only want some fun and at the moment that's what i'm getting. Thai girls seem so much more fun then western girls and you generally end up spending more on western girls anyway, however I haven't met any non "bar girl workers" yet which is a bit of a shame.

You mention Nana Plaza, i'm visiting Nana and Cowboy next week in BKK, is it that bad? :lol:

I see at least 2 more groups of girls looking for some fun with a young farang lad

BKK girls coming to Hua Hin for the weekend. One popular place is CeDeem or something like that, sponsored by Johnny Walker, north end of Naebkehardt road. Fridays and Saturdays, usually live Bkk band.

Thai girls "married" with (older?) farang looking for fun while their "husband" is out of town/overseas.

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Troll

Someone who states not interested in "Hookers" so goes straight to Bintabaht, then announces he is to visit Nana and Cowboy. Not interested in Hookers, what else is there to do, ignore them and watch TV.

I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt...... the preconceived notion that a lot of people have about thailand and the whole bar girl scene is, in my opinion, very much removed from the reality of what it is...... and when people get here and realise it is not like the crap that some do-gooder idealist has fed them, then they start to wake up and accept that fun can actually be had and if you partake you are no necessarily a closet case pedophile or a dirty old man ....... all who enjoy the night life are not Gary Glitter wanna-be's ........ but well over half the people I speak to back home automatically assume that almost every bar is full of 60+ fat bald old men with two 12-to-15 year old virgin girls on his lap for the price of a lollipop........

In my opinion, Thailand does have an image problem, or more importantly a reputation problem..... and crap like that "big trouble tourist thailand" is exaclty what is not needed. I like the bar girl scene ..... I think its great ...... but I left it all behind 10yrs ago when I got married and had kids......

I agree with all of your posts, bargirls are no different to western girls in terms of cash, you actually pay more for western girls and it certainly isn't 1/10 as fun. Thailands probably the best place for a guy my age (20) I came to realise when I got here. It's just so much dam_n fun, I only paid for one girl (300bht) and I was so drunk I fell asleep before anything happened. She coulda robbed me for maybe 3grand bht, but didn't dream of it, dam_n if that was a wastern girl she woulda probbly took 20quid on the way out thinking I wouldn't notice. I generally have fun with bargirls and non working bar girls with out paying for anything and ladyboys (pool only lol) too because their so open about everything.

Mai Thai is probably my favourite place for pre drinks, sporting events etc, and Pink Panther / Happy Toro (haggled down to 50bht a jack and coke) for fun. I've only really been to Bintabaht and the road next to it, I guess I should try further up at one point near Selekam but you can gurantee fun can be had on Bintabaht.

Thailands image is far worse then actual reality, which is a big shame, but oh well less Farangs can only mean more girls for current ones :lol:

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A couple of us, 3 lads and a girl are going to be staying in Hua Hin (my dad’s house, about 5km from beach and town I think) what can we do for decent night life? Not interested in hookers (why pay for something you can get free in any country ....). First time we’ve been to Thailand as well, what’s the cheapest way to get taxis between 4?

Just curious,what do you do at daytime?rolleyes.gif

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Haha i already lost my Thai innocence :D, I'm going Bangkok for two days, staying at the "honeyhouse" and checking out Soi Cowboy, I promised the girl mate I'd behave and not end up drunk with 10 bargirls and a bag full of drugs :lol:.

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Haha i already lost my Thai innocence :D, I'm going Bangkok for two days, staying at the "honeyhouse" and checking out Soi Cowboy, I promised the girl mate I'd behave and not end up drunk with 10 bargirls and a bag full of drugs :lol:.

good lad Sam, no drugs:D :D :D

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Haha i already lost my Thai innocence :D, I'm going Bangkok for two days, staying at the "honeyhouse" and checking out Soi Cowboy, I promised the girl mate I'd behave and not end up drunk with 10 bargirls and a bag full of drugs :lol:.

Eden Club. It will give you something to tell your friends about. Hold the bannister tight on the way down the stairs. :wacko:

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