US Court Indicts Paedophile Imprisoned In Thailand

[marc11864]

The problem with this argument is that it lumps all molesters of children into the same category. In doing so it leaves some who've molested with the idea that they cannot be rehabilitated and so they continue to exploit children since it is "in their nature" to; including those who molest at a young age.

As to the empirical evidence, how can you ever know for sure whether rehabilitation has occurred without examining a persons life under a microscope even after they have died? Too, who will state that as a youth they have molested but genuinely grew to see the impropriety of it and so stopped without intervention?

Further, lumping heterosexuality and homosexuality into the same continuum as child molesters is just as invalid. Like the sexuality of many who are heterosexual or homosexual, it is at least somewhat fluid. Even if it were not, the molestation of a child is a clear violation of a non-consensual human being.

Arguing the above points adds to the stigmatization of both the molesters and the children who are molested as well as to homosexuals thereby perpetuating the myths of sexuality.

Unfortunately, there is no available empirical evidence whatsover that suggests these PEDOS are reformable. None.

Its like "reforming" heterosexuals or homosexuals. They are what they are, sadly.

Edited June 24, 2010 by marc11864

[cdnvic]

Clarification:

Tonglen wasn't lumping hetro or homosexuals in with child molesters. He was merely using the example to express his opinion that some people are just wired in a certain way and will never change. Right or wrong is up for debate, but he's entitled to his opinion.

[Valentine]

Besides the DVD's on the evidence table, are those other items sex toys and/or prods?

Vomit is not a strong enough description of what I feel at the image of these young children being subjected to such tortuous treatment by ghouls.

The human race must be some kind of lab experiment that flew out of control!

=================

Okay let me get this factual. It's hard enough to think how the wiring can exist in the human brain for a rare freak of nature to be so perverted; but do these guys actually get together like some kind of club and do these heinous acts? please say NO

How could there be a group of them???

I think you will find there is a worldwide network whereby they can get all the latest info on where & how they can obtain children for sex. Disgusting but extremely widespread.

[marc11864]

I understood where he was coming from and in no way did I think he was painting with an extremely broad stroke. I only felt that the post simplified the issue too much and my hope is that my own articulation added something of value to the conversation. Ultimately, there are others who would too easily take his comments entirely out of context and perpetuate the suffering of others rather than encourage intelligent discourse.

If I step out of bounds please don't hesitate to correct me. We all could use enlightening on the subject of sexuality in some way or another.

And if I in anyway offended Tonglen I apologize as that was not my intent.

Clarification:

Tonglen wasn't lumping hetro or homosexuals in with child molesters. He was merely using the example to express his opinion that some people are just wired in a certain way and will never change. Right or wrong is up for debate, but he's entitled to his opinion.

[elektrified]

"14 years" and "suspended" somehow doesn't compute -- is it just me & my poor brain? In most countries I know, 14 years is pretty much the equivalent of a life sentence. So how can something serious as that be suspended?!?

The mind boggles...

Maurice John Praill (the ghost) is very well connected as one could see in the past, i hope that will change soon.

It is shocking to read about the past of "Phi". Google this characters name. I can't believe what he has gotten away with over the last 20 years in Thailand! He even provided glue for the kids to sniff in his home. Check out the article in the Mail Online.

[marc11864]

I think I'm going to be sick. Done reading. Can't take anymore.

"14 years" and "suspended" somehow doesn't compute -- is it just me & my poor brain? In most countries I know, 14 years is pretty much the equivalent of a life sentence. So how can something serious as that be suspended?!?

The mind boggles...

Maurice John Praill (the ghost) is very well connected as one could see in the past, i hope that will change soon.

It is shocking to read about the past of "Phi". Google this characters name. I can't believe what he has gotten away with over the last 20 years in Thailand! He even provided glue for the kids to sniff in his home. Check out the article in the Mail Online.

[techboy]

Glad that he's in a Thai prison. :jap:

[pattayabuggy]

Capital punishment should be the final sanction in these cases - period.

Brewsta

"Capital punisment" perhaps not, but we should neuter them... castration before jail should be the best punishment and sure, they will never do it again...

I think treatment  in a secure mental hospital is needed for these people as they are obviously mentally ill. In the picture they all look to be very old, usually a reduction of libido goes with  an increasing age so there must be something very wrong with them. I don't think vengance really helps anyone including the victims. If treatment worked and they were no longer a threat to society maybe they could be rehabilitated and later released. Putting them in jail for years just wastes money and doesnt really achieve much.

Sure is nice to know that some Expats have some common sense, from what I have seen in the past 10 years, many family's push their children on Farangs, so they can buy food, cloths and so on, there are not any soup lines or hand outs of any kind, in countries like this, people use what they have to work with, how important is letting your son or daughter being abused, opposed to the rest of the family starving? For some this is a way of life, due to lack of choices, no job, no education, no food, 5 kids, grandma, grandpa, no father, you just might be tempted to offer a member of your family to be used, abused, fed, and also receive some baht to feed the rest of your family, the abused child will most likely end up selling them selves the rest of their youth, and continue to support her or his, brothers, sisters, mom, grandparents. Some of the children might even get a education fro his or her support. The abused will not commit suicide or be disrespected or be full of hangups, like many would back where many of us came from, it is a very different set of rules here. You don't punish the family, family's can do strange things if they are starving and that doesn't mean they are bad people! scared, poor, hungry maybe, once one uses all of their Aces, one must look with-in. Don't read me wrong, I'm not saying it is OK, I'm saying it is understandable and putting these poor old farts in jail for many years and it looks like most will die in their. Put them in a mental hospital and the parents, brothers, sisters, grandma,grandpa of the abused are back to starving until they can find someone else.

Some may be kidnapped or sold also, If you don't understand how things like this can happen, hold back on being judge and jury.

I have never seen any Thai's starving, sorry I have never seen any evidence or excuse for Thai's to sell their children. From what I have seen a TV or a big bass blasting noise machine is top of the list to buy when they receive any money from selling their kids or scams, or any of the other dispicable acts Thai's get up to and usually get away with.

Yes, these arrested guys have done very wrong and should be punished, but the legal system here is a joke, when I see no Thai faces in the line up. For me 5% Ferang bad, 95% Thai bad. I have lived here 16 years.

Anyway, that should liven up the discussions.

[Valentine]

I have never seen any Thai's starving, sorry I have never seen any evidence or excuse for Thai's to sell their children. From what I have seen a TV or a big bass blasting noise machine is top of the list to buy when they receive any money from selling their kids or scams, or any of the other dispicable acts Thai's get up to and usually get away with.

Yes, these arrested guys have done very wrong and should be punished, but the legal system here is a joke, when I see no Thai faces in the line up. For me 5% Ferang bad, 95% Thai bad. I have lived here 16 years.

Anyway, that should liven up the discussions.

While not agreeing with your figures I do feel that Thailand has its share of paedophiles, serial rapists & even serial killers. Much of it does not get reported or are not even considered as "serial" & any Thai paedophiles who are caught will simply buy their way out same as the farang scum did for a long time.

[djayz]

Glad that he's in a Thai prison. :jap:

I second that but he should have been locked away years ago... it makes my blood boil that it's so easy to "get bail" here...

I have to stop reading this - this really is depressing. Poor kids...

[Odysseus221]

I'm confused about the word, peodophilia. It means, in Greek, child and love I think. Just exactly what is the "normal" interaction between adults and young people in these situations? The reason I mention this, is that in Ancient Greece, it was considered appropriate and normal for a young man to be "sponsored" by an older man, so that he could be instructed in cultural ways. This did also include some form of sexual expression as well. As the Greeks left their mark on civilization which will last as long as there is an advanced civilization; as the United States imposes its virtue on civilizations that cannot articulate their beliefs without the ridicule of more materialistic societies; as a major form of mental illnessin the US was hysteria according to psychiatric journals in the past century, I wonder just what transferrance of Western values to Asia is in a variety of feelings, values, and so forth. Are we transferring psychological hysteria and substituting this for whatever situation the Thais have? Are we simply taking a laisse faire Buddhist culture and driving the society into a materialistic corner which calls for more "modern"--read Christian--values?

Is it attitudes of revulsion, attitudes of social hierarchy, attitudes of sexuality that we are transferring? What were the social mores in SE Asia before the West became a controling influence? What is the psychological perspective from these men who have been incarcerated? What did they get from an encounter with a child? What was the encounter?

We will never know what psychological, emotional and social attitudes color this electrifying topic, except of course, hysteria and punishment. We will never know what are the driving forces of needs, wants and feelings for the men involved; we will never understand the social context in Asia or any cultural aspects of this situation--as in Ancient Greece.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Odysseus221

[jc14all]

<br>I'm confused about the word, peodophilia. It means, in Greek, child and love I think. Just exactly what is the "normal" interaction between adults and young people in these situations? The reason I mention this, is that in Ancient Greece, it was considered appropriate and normal for a young man to be "sponsored" by an older man, so that he could be instructed in cultural ways. This did also include some form of sexual expression as well. As the Greeks left their mark on civilization which will last as long as there is an advanced civilization; as the United States imposes its virtue on civilizations that cannot articulate their beliefs without the ridicule of more materialistic societies; as a major form of mental illnessin the US was hysteria according to psychiatric journals in the past century, I wonder just what transferrance of Western values to Asia is in a variety of feelings, values, and so forth. Are we transferring psychological hysteria and substituting this for whatever situation the Thais have? Are we simply taking a laisse faire Buddhist culture and driving the society into a materialistic corner which calls for more "modern"--read Christian--values?<br><br>Is it attitudes of revulsion, attitudes of social hierarchy, attitudes of sexuality that we are transferring? What were the social mores in SE Asia before the West became a controling influence? What is the psychological perspective from these men who have been incarcerated? What did they get from an encounter with a child? What was the encounter?<br><br>We will never know what psychological, emotional and social attitudes color this electrifying topic, except of course, hysteria and punishment. We will never know what are the driving forces of needs, wants and feelings for the men involved; we will never understand the social context in Asia or any cultural aspects of this situation--as in Ancient Greece.<br>

<br><br>Blah, blah, blah...Huh? It is a waste of time studying perversion. It is lowest on the ecological chain of living things even below the beast.

[jfchandler]

I think, from this case and others, that it's pretty clear that farang guys like the ones in these cases most of the time could not get away with such things without the active participation or at least silent consent of involved Thais, whether they be the girls' family members, caretakers or others such as Thai pimps.

But of course, when farang are caught and prosecuted for such cases, you rarely if ever hear/see about the related Thais involved being charged.

That doesn't lessen or excuse the behavior of the farangs. But it does say something about the Thai justice system and its failings.

[hyperdimension]

It is a waste of time studying perversion. It is lowest on the ecological chain of living things even below the beast.

On the contrary, perversion is a fascinating field of social study.

I've watched enough nature documentaries to know that humans are the sexual deviants, because they are mostly monogamous. You might be surprised to learn of the sexual behavior of other animal species, and that what goes on in our own species is mostly tame in comparison. But essentially our sexual instincts are not unlike the sexual instincts of other animal species.

Watch National Geographic's "Wild Sex" documentary series for a good education: http://natgeotv.com/asia/wild-sex/about

If you do a little web searching you would find the full episodes to download. It is well worth watching, and is very funny too.

Edited June 25, 2010 by hyperdimension

[tonglen]

I understood where he was coming from and in no way did I think he was painting with an extremely broad stroke. I only felt that the post simplified the issue too much and my hope is that my own articulation added something of value to the conversation. Ultimately, there are others who would too easily take his comments entirely out of context and perpetuate the suffering of others rather than encourage intelligent discourse.

If I step out of bounds please don't hesitate to correct me. We all could use enlightening on the subject of sexuality in some way or another.

And if I in anyway offended Tonglen I apologize as that was not my intent.

Clarification:

Tonglen wasn't lumping hetro or homosexuals in with child molesters. He was merely using the example to express his opinion that some people are just wired in a certain way and will never change. Right or wrong is up for debate, but he's entitled to his opinion.

Marc, I was just ribbing with you down below on your last post. Not trying to get nasty. Just to let you know.

Ive spent time with offenders and paedos and they do seem to resist change in their patterns. I wish they would show continuity in their behavioral patterns. Instead they show that their desires are merely in a state of suspension or remission.

[elliss]

[

I think treatment in a secure mental hospital is needed for these people as they are obviously mentally ill. In the picture they all look to be very old, usually a reduction of libido goes with an increasing age so there must be something very wrong with them. I don't think vengance really helps anyone including the victims. If treatment worked and they were no longer a threat to society maybe they could be rehabilitated and later released. Putting them in jail for years just wastes money and doesnt really achieve much.

KRAPP,

sounds like the type of speel , expected from a socialogist , who has led a protected life .

would you be happy if ,after they served their sentance , they were re-housed , next door to you .

[marc11864]

I too wish they would show continuity toward remission of offending. Maybe we need to look more at how we are rehabilitating them.

Granted however sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, to turn another oft repeated sexual idiom, and we need to better identify those who refuse to alter their behavior and isolate them from the general population adequately so that they are unable to re-offend indefinitely. We also need to better understand the influences and factors that cause/allow this aberrant behavior so we can restrict the likelihood of even a first offense. But as with too many things in this life, we seek to put a band-aid on the problem.

The bottom line is that on the course we are on, we are failing miserably and the ones who suffer most are the children.

I understood where he was coming from and in no way did I think he was painting with an extremely broad stroke. I only felt that the post simplified the issue too much and my hope is that my own articulation added something of value to the conversation. Ultimately, there are others who would too easily take his comments entirely out of context and perpetuate the suffering of others rather than encourage intelligent discourse.

If I step out of bounds please don't hesitate to correct me. We all could use enlightening on the subject of sexuality in some way or another.

And if I in anyway offended Tonglen I apologize as that was not my intent.

Clarification:

Tonglen wasn't lumping hetro or homosexuals in with child molesters. He was merely using the example to express his opinion that some people are just wired in a certain way and will never change. Right or wrong is up for debate, but he's entitled to his opinion.

Marc, I was just ribbing with you down below on your last post. Not trying to get nasty. Just to let you know.

Ive spent time with offenders and paedos and they do seem to resist change in their patterns. I wish they would show continuity in their behavioral patterns. Instead they show that their desires are merely in a state of suspension or remission.

Edited June 25, 2010 by marc11864

[overhaul38]

It does make me wonder how they got the children. Apparently these farangs acted alone and the police were alerted after the parents reported the children had been kidnapped.

I'm sure the Bangkok post will have the full story.

[marc11864]

I would say that in reply to your comment, the children might think differently.

<br>I'm confused about the word, peodophilia. It means, in Greek, child and love I think. Just exactly what is the "normal" interaction between adults and young people in these situations? The reason I mention this, is that in Ancient Greece, it was considered appropriate and normal for a young man to be "sponsored" by an older man, so that he could be instructed in cultural ways. This did also include some form of sexual expression as well. As the Greeks left their mark on civilization which will last as long as there is an advanced civilization; as the United States imposes its virtue on civilizations that cannot articulate their beliefs without the ridicule of more materialistic societies; as a major form of mental illnessin the US was hysteria according to psychiatric journals in the past century, I wonder just what transferrance of Western values to Asia is in a variety of feelings, values, and so forth. Are we transferring psychological hysteria and substituting this for whatever situation the Thais have? Are we simply taking a laisse faire Buddhist culture and driving the society into a materialistic corner which calls for more "modern"--read Christian--values?<br><br>Is it attitudes of revulsion, attitudes of social hierarchy, attitudes of sexuality that we are transferring? What were the social mores in SE Asia before the West became a controling influence? What is the psychological perspective from these men who have been incarcerated? What did they get from an encounter with a child? What was the encounter?<br><br>We will never know what psychological, emotional and social attitudes color this electrifying topic, except of course, hysteria and punishment. We will never know what are the driving forces of needs, wants and feelings for the men involved; we will never understand the social context in Asia or any cultural aspects of this situation--as in Ancient Greece.<br>

<br><br>Blah, blah, blah...Huh? It is a waste of time studying perversion. It is lowest on the ecological chain of living things even below the beast.

[overhaul38]

As I understand the karaoke bars and other establishments along second and Third roads in Pattaya, frequented by locals are full with underage girls, mostly from Cambodia, Laos and Burma. There is ample supply as indicated by the report that evidence of 200 different girls was molested.

I live in rural Thailand central region, A few years ago I was sitting in a rural local police station waiting to met an official. A mother and her son came into the station and talked to the officer on watch (reception). From the conversation I could hear that the young man had in some way molested or tried to molest a underage girl in the village. The officer proceeded to give him a very loud scolding and sent them packing home again.

I'm sure everyone is aware of the media show/circus that the Thais put on for high profile criminal cases and It's special news whena farang is involved.

Farangs must know that they are held to very high standards in Thailand. Any minor stumble or mistake is pounced on so the attention and long prison sentences

given pedophile crimes are understandable and expected.

[overhaul38]

Thank goodness he wont be walking around for some time.

Why do such 'guys' give all of us a bad name? Understandable that more and more Thais dislike all of us.

It is unrealistic to expect that every member or citizen of a group or country will act in a completely honorably way.

Thais living in other countries commit crimes, including murder, but I don't think their actions reflect on the honest Thais. Regardless of the action of these few renegades Thais tolerate us, expect us to stay in our place, spend our money and go home in 90 days.

[cdnvic]

One personal attack removed. Next one will get a suspension.

[sokal]

Capital punishment should be the final sanction in these cases - period.

Brewsta

Indeed, that is what they do in Indonesia.

[TBKK]

US Court Indicts Paedophile Imprisoned in Thailand

Canadian-born US citizen Glen Richard Allen, already imprisoned in Thailand, has now been indicted by a US District Court in his hometown of Seattle. Allen was arrested along with several other men after evidence of his sexual interference with girls as young as 11-years-old came to light in 2007.

Thailand, the 23rd of June 2010 [PDN]: Thailand's Crimes Against Women & Children Suppression Division arrested Allen, along with two Brits, Maurice John Praill and Stephen James Ellison and a Finn Ilkka Ylikolola in March of 2007. The four were all charged with several counts of sexually interfering with underage girls.

Already sentenced to 16-years in a Thai prison, the Seattle District Court earlier this month indicted Allen for his heinous crimes. The US Attorney's Office has released a statement saying that Allen is in and will remain in Thai prison over his offences.

Allen, who retired to the seaside resort town of Pattaya on Thailand's Eastern Seaboard in 1997, was caught in March of 2007 with a catalogue of some 200-300 DVD's depicting himself sexually interfering with children as young as 11-years-old. Arrested in his Pattaya City condominium, along with Praill, Ellison and Ylikolola, Allen was eventually sentenced to 16-years in prison by a Thai court. Consequently Praill was found to have been convicted on child sex offenses in Thailand prior to this matter, returning to his ways upon being handed a 14-year suspended sentence.

Story continues with pictures: HERE

-- PATTAYA DAILY NEWS

2010-06-24

[TBKK]

I'm glad that they are arresting some of this paedophiles but it pains me to realize that most of them are still allowed to engage in their perversion in Thailand. One that comes to mind is Perry McNeely, former President of the Pattaya Sports Club. This individual was arrested for sex crimes in America, spent a year in prision in The Philippians on charges of molesting underage girls and then was deported as an undesireable. He ended up in Thailand as was arrested again in the Philippians this past December for engaging in sex with a minor. As in the past , he was able to miraculously able to escape prosecution from these charges and is back in Thailand.This is a good example of how money, and the ability to pay off the authorities, will allow you to do whatever you want in Thailand.

I heard that U.S Embassy officials in Thailand and The Philippians want to extradite McNeely to face charges in the U.S., but I doubt that this will happen.

I would be interested to know if the U.S. Embassy has made any attempt to extradite McNeely, the last I heard he was back in Thailand living in Pattaya.

[jc14all]

I'm glad that they are arresting some of this paedophiles but it pains me to realize that most of them are still allowed to engage in their perversion in Thailand. One that comes to mind is Perry McNeely, former President of the Pattaya Sports Club. This individual was arrested for sex crimes in America, spent a year in prision in The Philippians on charges of molesting underage girls and then was deported as an undesireable. He ended up in Thailand as was arrested again in the Philippians this past December for engaging in sex with a minor. As in the past , he was able to miraculously able to escape prosecution from these charges and is back in Thailand.This is a good example of how money, and the ability to pay off the authorities, will allow you to do whatever you want in Thailand.

I heard that U.S Embassy officials in Thailand and The Philippians want to extradite McNeely to face charges in the U.S., but I doubt that this will happen.

I would be interested to know if the U.S. Embassy has made any attempt to extradite McNeely, the last I heard he was back in Thailand living in Pattaya.

Wow. You got a valid point there friend. I googled that name and the deck is stacked against that perpetrator. Amazing!

[YORKSHIREPUD]

I'm glad that they are arresting some of this paedophiles but it pains me to realize that most of them are still allowed to engage in their perversion in Thailand. One that comes to mind is Perry McNeely, former President of the Pattaya Sports Club. This individual was arrested for sex crimes in America, spent a year in prision in The Philippians on charges of molesting underage girls and then was deported as an undesireable. He ended up in Thailand as was arrested again in the Philippians this past December for engaging in sex with a minor. As in the past , he was able to miraculously able to escape prosecution from these charges and is back in Thailand.This is a good example of how money, and the ability to pay off the authorities, will allow you to do whatever you want in Thailand.

I heard that U.S Embassy officials in Thailand and The Philippians want to extradite McNeely to face charges in the U.S., but I doubt that this will happen.

I would be interested to know if the U.S. Embassy has made any attempt to extradite McNeely, the last I heard he was back in Thailand living in Pattaya.

Wow. You got a valid point there friend. I googled that name and the deck is stacked against that perpetrator. Amazing!

A very valid point indeed, I just hope that they all get what they deserve including any middle persons involved in Procuring the children.

[elliss]

From the conversation I could hear that the young man had in some way molested or tried to molest a underage girl in the village. The officer proceeded to give him a very loud scolding and sent them packing home again.

if found guilty , which NO doubt they will ,

they deservere the ultimate penalty .

the pimps / families involved , are probably still involved in trading young children .

no trials / punishment for them . this is the bigest worry.

that said , if these were thai men ,it would not have made the headlines.

it was not uncommon in rural areas , for young girls virginity , to be taken by male family relatives .

maybe it is not looked upon as revolting , as we regard it .

[Thai at Heart]

Can't help thinking that very severe sentencing for parents who provide their children for this kind of thing would severely reduce the likelihood that they will let their children be abused like this.

Of course not all kids are "provided" to paedos by parents, but I wouldn't be so naive to believe that it isn't a fair percentage. And still today, we hear the nonsense spoken about how Thais love their children more than others.

[crazyOZ80]

opposed to the rest of the family starving? For some this is a way of life, due to lack of choices, no job, no education, no food

If you were speaking of hill tribe I might buy it. There is not lack of food here in Thailand, many fruit trees, wild herb and veggies, and rice is cheap. I haven't seen Thai families who are poor go without food. It is simply greed that motivates a person to act in such a deplorable manner with their on children. It is GREED!

You are spot on there mate in what you say ! The family's are NOT starving to death , they are just GREEDY !!