Building A House In Thailand

[bkkbarnstormer]

Based on the accummulated knowledge of many of you who have gone through the process, appreciate your considerations and preferred route to building a small home in Korat. In particular:

- of the many books which have been written on this subject, are they any in particular which are highly recommended to provide an introduction?

- is it best to "do it yourself" and engage separate companies to undertake individual elements of the construction, or are there reputable companies which could be used to give you a "design and build" solution?

- how have others effectively managed the process if you have limited time to be able to monitor the cost and construction on site during the build (especially concerns over quality of workmanship, cost control and schedule)

- anybody got any specific recommendations for designers and builders in the Korat area?

[InterestedObserver]

You didn't ask about the land, but what provisions have you made to own the house after it is built. Perhaps you are not concerned about house ownership and land rights issues, which is ok just as long as you are well informed.

[Beardog]

Barnstormer,

if you are not on a contractor level you may find it insanely difficult to piece out the jobs & come up with a good working finished product. There are many many things to contemplate & Thailand has so many variables of defeat that books can't cover. I was a contractor in the U.S. & still find it is a huge challenge of wits with a contractor doing the job. Even though I did a lot of the transiting the land plumbing laying the underground electrical cable irrigation landscaping & portions of the roof. I have had to rethink many of the tasks & redo some. You will need to know from experience a lot of the steps as a book will only give you basic 101. Even if I wrote the book or another qualified contractor wrote it - it would be the same. Like roofing insulation needs to be shiny side down. If you call c-pac they will tell you it doesn't matter because they don't understand the physics behind it. Or when you put in a water heater & they don't put in an rcb, elcb, rcbo or whatever is required. When I got back from the U.S. for a 3& 1/2 week vacation I had to straighten out 4 overlooked areas & one of my own forgetting to pull wires for my water pumps if I decide to switch the location. Mistakes that will cost you big bucks if you do not have adequate knowledge & foresight to see possible errors way before the occur.I had to redo a vast amount of the problems the architect caused the project.It can be done but I think most would agree if you are not a contractor or don't have a lot going for you in the handyman dept & at least a brief understanding of physics you will probably wind up with paying more to fix the problems caused by different building methods compounded by the language barrier. My builder is shit hot- but I still had to teach some pick up finish tricks to make the house look eye sweet.We all make mistakes & one of the most important things in building is know how to adjust for a slightly un- square beam or facia that has to be fir'd out or in or up & down to correct a drifting line & give it the illusion of being perfect.

You could get pay contractor his wage & have him pick out a team that you pay on a semi weekly basis or weekly. I would not advise you pay daily unless you know how much you can do yourself a day to guage if they are milking the job to make it last twice as long.

Whatever way you decide I wish you good & the best of luck as you will be needing it. Building a house ion LOS is truly a challenge of patience.

Barry

Edited July 23, 2010 by Beardog

[craigt3365]

My builder is shit hot- but I still had to teach some pick up finish tricks to make the house look eye sweet.We all make mistakes & one of the most important things in building is know how to adjust for a slightly un- square beam or facia that has to be fir'd out or in or up & down to correct a drifting line & give it the illusion of being perfect.

Barry

Wow...so that's what we should have done here!?!?!?! I don't think we have a square section in our house! Gave the interior contractor fits when doing the built-ins! Crazy.

We just finished a build out. House was done, but just a shell. And had been abandoned for 3 years and was vandalized (by the villages security guards!). Took us 7 months of work every day. This did include building an add on patio of fair size and a sala by the pool.

It was the most frustrating thing I have ever done in my life. For many reasons. Language is the first. Many things just don't translate properly. My wife and I almost got a divorce! Another reason is you can not buy many things here that you are use to back in your home country (ie. Malibu low voltage garden lights)...and things are just done differently here (and in many cases, in an inferior manner...and with inferior products).

You have to watch the workers EVERY day. All day. If there is a short cut to take, they will do it. We worked with 3 different contractors. Interior build out, construction (patio, tile, electrical, water) and landscaping. I was lucky my interior build out guy was fantastic. Few problems there, but still have some headaches (but mostly due to how we wanted things done differently...ie drawers instead of so many cabinets under the counters).

The construction guy was fair, but did quite a few things improperly. The landscape guy was a dream. The irrigation guy was a nightmare.

We got VASTLY different price quotes for the same job. You really have to shop around...and get references. And try and figure out if the price difference is due to quality or just some guy seeing you are a farang and upping the price 100%. For example, we put in a fair amount of lights in the garden. I wanted low voltage lights. I went to every major store and most had no idea what I was talking about. We had a guy come in and quote 95k Baht for a 220V system. About 20 lights. Jeez!!! The landscape guy then had his friend come in and did it for less than 20k Baht. Mostly 12V. But ran 220 along the wall with 20 converters and then ran 12v wire out to the lights. Crazy. That was a 2 hour, intense discussion with the electrical guy. In the end, I gave up, told my wife to deal with it and I went out and had a beer with some friends. I've found my self doing this a lot lately. Accept a lesser quality rather than fight it out.

Shopping for everything is also a problem. I am from the US, and am use to shopping at HomeDepot, Lowes, etc. Huge superstores staffed by people who know what they are doing (usually) and have a large range of quality products. Here, the staff are young girls or guys and they have no idea what they are selling you other than the price and where it is located in the store (and sometimes they don't even know that). Selection here is fair, but for the hard core or quality stuff, it's a struggle. For example ceiling fans. I buy Casablanca or Hunter back in the states. Pricey, but the quality is great. Can't get them here. Most ceiling fans are cheap quality and break quickly. We got the best money could buy, after LOTS of shopping. We've had so many problems, they even sent a factory rep out to help us. Had to take one back to Bangkok to see what's going on. It first started making a noise (real fun at 3am) and now just cuts out...and can't be turned back on unless he takes it apart and sparks the wires.

I could go on and on. And it is the same story I've heard from others. My neighbor had to have his pilings redone 3 times! Tear them out and redo them. Seems they didn't understand concrete needs to cure...that means being dry and not sitting in 1 meter of water!

BUT! Now that everything is done, we are lovin it. In retrospect, it might have been better to have bought an already built house. But ours had many problems caused by the original builder. Sub-standard electrical (everything), lousy plumbing, drainage problems, etc. We had all of these corrected. It was easy to do during the build out, but would have been a pain to do after everything was done.

Anyway...good luck! We are done now and it is fantastic. Finally, we don't have 8-12 guys running around doing stuff...with us following them every inch of the way....

Barry: hope to be out in a few days to see how things are going. Big party tonight, so tomorrow might be a recovery day.

[Beardog]

Craig,

Your house really kicks ass.The Lawn looks spectacular. The landscape was really done well! It gives your casa a very nice touch. I only have 3 beams out of square at the bottom only & I showed 2 of the guys some tricks to make it eye sweet so it is barely noticeable. It's when the upper portion cups in or out or or does a bow to the side that really sucks.

Close to the rap-up. The excess gear & wood form & scaffolding is starting to leave.

And just cause I am a fussy farang that's been in the trade. I will wind up correcting the minor touch ups. You can be certain paint touch ups door realignments & other assorted gear is going to be overlooked. I will have the boss man adjust the new doors if it isn't on the money or re-change later. Next to the house being out of square doors not hung perfect is a usual shortcoming with most Thai builders.

[stgrhe]

Although our house is only near completion I have a similar experienced as craig3365. It has been a constant struggle from day one and being an engineer I am used to see things very differently than the average Thai builder. Here is a brief break down of the experience thus far:

DESIGN AND ENGINEERING

We are building a well designed house that we modified to suit our family requirements. The structural engineering was very good and in that respect we we lucky finding a good engineer.

HOUSE CONCRETE STRUCTURE

We are also quite happy with this part because the work was supervised by the structural engineer and a very good foreman. We had no problem of getting the concrete mix we wanted but I had to chase the concrete worker to stir the concrete properly. They were happy with much less but in the end I got it my way. They were also of the opinion that watering the concrete for seven days would be enough. This is probably due to the fact that they don not seem to understand the chemical process that is called curing. However, I am also quite content with the watering part because the work was done during last years rainy season so mother nature provided the extra water the workers were reluctant to provide.

ROOF

The steal beams and the roof work was done by CPAC Monier's own staff and thet too did a give and rather swift work. I would recommend this to be left to a specialist company.

PLUMING

What can I say, the word fiasco comes to my mined. One mistake that was done was that there were no detailed layout drawings for the pluming part. The pluming caused many clashes and added a hugh delay to the project. The drainage part was quite o.k. although the pipes had to be redone several times to get the proper slop to the septic tanks. We have two tanks, one for gray water and one for black water.

The water pipes were the lousiest work I have ever seen and although I was redone many times I am not happy with it, but because of the construction not much more can be done without tearing down walls and open the slab. We used the 13.5 bar blue plastic pipes for cold water and copper pipes for the hot water. I wouldn't use any plastic pipe indoor again.

The best one can say about the pluming is that it is functional.

ELECTRICAL

The electrical work I would leave to any Thai to design. Hence, the electrical system design was done by myself, assisted by the forum members Elkangorito and David96, who generously provided me with details of the Australian and New Zealand standards.

The actual installation has not yet been completed but I am quite happy with the work done thus far. However, like for the pluming, there was no detailed electrical drawing in the master plans, which would have enabled me to get the cable runs better. Now, all circuit cables are run in conduits to their respective load position. I would have preferred the bulk of the cables first to be run in larger cable runs (formed like a H) and then in conduits to the load positions.

The distribution board was ordered from PMK in Nonthaburi as a sub-project.

PAINTWORK

This is another disaster area and I am astonished about the Thai painters poor skill. All concrete surface areas are first plastered with a Lanko cream plaster. Then it will be one coating with a primer (Jotun's paint is used), followed by two coatings of the finishing paint. The cream plaster was applied well but randomly in no specific order, which also have added delays to the construction. The cream plaster was then properly sanded and so far it was not to bad.

Come time for the first coating disaster struck. First the use rollers and brushes only, which is o.k., but I discovered that they, in true Thai fashion, mixed the paint with quite a lot of water. Actually, these paintes should not be mixed with any water at all. To my surprise the Thai workers seamed to think that the paint was only applied so the house looks good. They could not understand that the main purpose with paint is for protection of the applicable surface. Back to square one, and more coating were forced by me.

Furthermore, none of the painters did know how how to strike the brush properly or how to use a roller professionally. The painter wouldn't cover windows, floor and appliances unless I specifically pointed out these items for them.

Unless the paintwork is done well the image of the house will always be poor.

TILING

The tiling is almost complete and there has been two tiling teams working on different sections. The first team is very good and I have had absolutely nothing to add there. The second team are also good but the had no idea of centering tiles and started in the bathrooms in the corners. After I showed them the different look when they start in the middle of the wall they got the picture. Hence, our guest toilette has non-centered wall tiles while the other bathrooms have it. The difference to the finish look is remarkable.

Another think the second team didn't understand was that the floor tiles must be done first before the bottom row of wall tiles to the floor tiles slot under the wall tile. Now they know!

SWIMMING POOL

The swimming pool is being constructed by GDL Pools and so far I have had little complaints with them. They have a good reputation here in Hua Hin and we were also the first to order the new MagnaPool system so the owner himself comes by ever so often to check on the work. I do not know whether this is part of his routine or if it is because of the MagnaPool.

AIR CONDITION SYSTEM

We bought five Daikin super-inverter ceiling concealed units from the company Umpol here in Hua Hin. They have now almost completed the indoor installations and have overall been quite good despite a few hick-ups.

DRAINAGE SYSTEMS

The drainage systems were completed by the structural engineer and his team having a 200:1 slop. It seems to be working very well despite an incomplete landscaping that obstructs the flow of water to some degree.

PROJECT MANAGEMENT

Project Management and Thais simply do not marry, period! What a disaster! Our house should have been ready early February and although it is costing the developer 2,000 baht a day in liquidated damages they cannot get the management in order to achieve some sort of an efficiency.

My recommendations to other potential house builders is to ensure you have a good liquidated damages clause and a large payment (min 20%) as final payment at hand over. Also pay by milestone installments.

OTHER MATTERS

Absolutely all Thai construction workers I have encountered are careless and filthy. They get on with their part of work without any consideration to other areas of the construction. Also the litter, and litter a lot so he entire construction soon will look like a dump yard.

Should I build another house I would ensure to have a clause in the contract specifying the the entire construction must be cleared of debris at the end of EVERY day. This would eventually safe time but the Thais have no clue about that. I would also forbid any unauthorised to enter the premises.

[craigt3365]

Yeah, it amazes me how they liter the place, never clean it up, and mess up work others have done. I was specifically told clean up was the responsibility of the owner. They did not clean up well after grouting the tiles. I told them to do it and they did a half ass job. Told them to do better and they used some kind of chemical that ruined the chrome on my shower hardware! Told them to bugger off after...but they are coming back to replace the chrome.

My friend couldn't figure out why grass wouldn't grow on an area about 1.5x1.5 meters. Finally, he tore the grass out and found where they had dumped the excess cement! It was about a foot deep! Had to bust it out with a sledge. I caught them doing that here and stopped them immediately. NO WAY. Crazy. We are still finding stuff they buried here and there.

Totally agree with progress payments. We do like 20 or 25% up front, then progress payments. Final one is about 1/3rd. And no money until we inspect everything...throughly!!! And even then, little things crop up later. Luckily, all of our contractors have come back to fix these things...

[stgrhe]

Totally agree with progress payments. We do like 20 or 25% up front, then progress payments.

Several serious developers I have spoken to confirm that they would ask for 15 - 20% down payment but settle for 10%. IMO the developer / builder should be prepared to provide its own capital flow and thus have enough liquidity or else one should chose another one.

[chaihot]

It was the most frustrating thing I have ever done in my life. For many reasons. Language is the first. Many things just don't translate properly. My wife and I almost got a divorce! Another reason is you can not buy many things here that you are use to back in your home country ...

We got VASTLY different price quotes for the same job. ... In the end, I gave up, told my wife to deal with it and I went out and had a beer with some friends. I've found my self doing this a lot lately. Accept a lesser quality rather than fight it out.

Shopping for everything is also a problem. I am from the US, and am use to shopping at HomeDepot, Lowes, etc. Huge superstores staffed by people who know what they are doing (usually) and have a large range of quality products.

Here, the staff are young girls or guys and they have no idea what they are selling you other than the price and where it is located in the store

In retrospect, it might have been better to have bought an already built house. But ours had many problems caused by the original builder. Sub-standard electrical (everything), lousy plumbing, drainage problems, etc. We had all of these corrected. It was easy to do during the build out, but would have been a pain to do after everything was done.

(I have removed some of your post in order to quote it above but have not changed anything).

I told my wife from the beginning that I could NEVER build a house in Thailand and that she could forget about it if that was her idea. I knew that I would either have a mental breakdown or I'd be in jail. We purchased an already-built home and have had to put each of us in "time out" after dealing with contractors who were quoting on some "re-do" projects. It would make me crazy that some vendors would quote 50% or less than a previous vendor specifying the same item/part numbers.

The other part that required anger management was that my wife WOULD NOT translate exactly what I was saying because she was embarrassed. There was no confusion on her part -- she speaks fluent English. But she grew up speaking with "respect" only and just can't let it fly. Unless of course, she wants to chew me out.

Shopping is unique to say the least. For me, pure frustration. Of course, I have visited all the big-boxes that I could find in the area, but the selection and quality are poor. To see one item in a store and to hear either "no have" because out of stock, or "we order for you" because they never stock it, is frustrating.

(Try and find a mirrored multi-bulb light over vanity light fixture in Thailand!! Like) http://common1.csnim...t+in+Chrome.jpg

You mentioned the staff who doesn't know what they are selling. I would like to point out, that in Thailand and the Philippines, some of the staff are NOT paid by the store you are visiting. They are paid by the manufacturers. You especially see it in Electronics (TV's - Panasonic Reps, LG reps, etc).

And here in Thailand, some of the employees are "assigned" a product line, and are evaluated based on how much of that line moves. An example is in plumbing fixtures. No matter what, a sales person kept going back to the "Hafele" (?sp) wall and telling my wife that "this was the best". They didn't even want to find stock from the other brands --- I had to locate the stock on the shelf because I didn't buy "her" brand. I finally broke down and explained to her that the fixtures were junk and to use her hand to feel the way the controls moved. My wife unhappily translated my rant.

I wish the best of luck to any of you that are going to build a house. As I am told often, "Just take a deep breath".

I do love my house though ... it just needs some changes to make me happier. And I have had to learn to breath more.

[craigt3365]

I've learned 2 things here with this house build.

1. Yelling, screaming, etc. doesn't work. The Thai's hate that and will either never deal with you again, or just ignore you. Both have happened to me with various construction folks. I now try to temper myself...which is a good thing.

2. With regards to the above, as I am an ex-biz guy used to working in New York City, and feel right at home calling somebody on his sh**, I now let the wife deal with it. Works out MUCH better! I can relax, have my beer, tell her what needs to be done, and don't get my blood pressure up!

[Beardog]

Just as I thought. I was hoping to skate on adjusting the doors (only 3 of them) But as un luck would have it After getting super frustrated with my Girl for not following my wishes to the team again I found it just easier to throw on the belt break out the tools & adjust them myself to save a lot of agony & misunderstanding.If I am the one to hang the doors I like to be the one from installing the door jams to make sure it is a 100% level job . That way it is a breeze to pop the doors in. Wood is easy.......when you put wood into cement it gets a lot harder.Wood to wood crushes in wood cement to wood not that forgiving if your off on the initial set. Job done next item of scrutiny!!!!!!!!!! I would say even in the states would not find more than 15 out of 100 craftsman that can install doors like a champion. Odds here are far less to get an ace.