Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[ozzieovaseas]

I have a friend who is an investor. He is married to a very nice Thai lady and has been for some time. He buys the properties in her name and sells them for a profit. He also has a number of other businesses. They are a partnership of equals. But deep down inside he is emasculated. His balls tighten up when he realizes she actually owns everything. She is dependent on his expertise and as long as she realizes this they are OK. Sometimes he invents excuses to see other men who are not married and use prostitutes as emasculated to make himself feel better.

I have another friend who works offshore and owns (rents) three business in Thailand all in his name. He does not have a wife and uses prostitutes exclusively for feminine companionship. He is a wealthy man because of his offshore earnings and mainly uses his Thai business as a hobby. Sometimes he invents excuses to see men with wives as emasculated to make himself feel better.

Both men are in their late 40's and both see men other than themselves as emasculated.

Both men are sincere but have a difficult time seeing the reality of others lives because of their unique positions in life.

Who is right? Both actually. If the investor with the Thai wife used prostitutes he would become emasculated or if the off shore worker got married he would be emasculated.

But they are only right for themselves. When they apply their unique positions to other people the logic breaks down.

You could make the case that every time a person masturbates they are becoming emasculated or independent of the social skills to have a meaningful sex life with another person. But no one does because masturbation is a natural function. To some, I'm sure masturbation and using a prostitute is the same thing. You could make the case that every time a man or woman fantasizes about another person they are loosing touch with reality but no one does. Using prostitutes for some is a simple fantasy fulfillment and nothing more.

Why all the emotion in this argument? Does anyone care if an old punter who no one knows becomes emasculated or a 70 year old man has less social skills to attract a partner? That's laughable and of course untrue.

The emasculation argument or social skills argument is purely a personal validation argument or statement. It has far more to do with the poster than the people the poster is talking about. It is a validation of their own lifestyle as opposed to a statement about other people and should be seen as such.

"To some, I'm sure masturbation and using a prostitute are the same thing" ............so why continually use the prostitute and risk disease?

Another thing........short term relationships require use of 'protection'.............carry on boys, perhaps you have forgotten what good sex really is?

I took her to the clinic when we met and then in 90 days and then in 180 days. She is fine. I have her checked once every 6 months. I get away with this because I pay her.

If on the other hand you are working offshore and the little lady is staying at home alone. Do you check?

Carry on boys.

took her to the clinic..get her checked every six months......

Sounds like your talking about taking a pet to a vetinarian

[mark45y]

I check because of the incubation period for HIV.

I check because I am a rational person.

I check because I live in Thailand.

I am aware of at least 10 women who have multiple Thai, Falang and other husbands and boyfriends.

I know of one family of three ladies (sisters) who has a total of 10 husbands/boyfriends on a permanent basis.

Listening on the phone.

“But lady is no virgin”

“yes she is”

“no, she had hundred men last year alone”

“but she falang virgin. Never have falang”

“ha ha ha.”

I live in Thailand. Not part time. I live in Thailand full time. I speak Thai. I listen.

I used to give lectures to government workers mostly female. One of the questions asked each lecture was are you married, this was to fill out a form. One of the most frequent answers was, “not today!.”

I truly believe Thai women are the alpha women of the planet but truth is not high up on their list of virtues.

[473geo]

I check because of the incubation period for HIV.

I check because I am a rational person.

I check because I live in Thailand.

I am aware of at least 10 women who have multiple Thai, Falang and other husbands and boyfriends.

I know of one family of three ladies (sisters) who has a total of 10 husbands/boyfriends on a permanent basis.

Listening on the phone.

"But lady is no virgin"

"yes she is"

"no, she had hundred men last year alone"

"but she falang virgin. Never have falang"

"ha ha ha."

I live in Thailand. Not part time. I live in Thailand full time. I speak Thai. I listen.

I used to give lectures to government workers mostly female. One of the questions asked each lecture was are you married, this was to fill out a form. One of the most frequent answers was, "not today!."

I truly believe Thai women are the alpha women of the planet but truth is not high up on their list of virtues.

But humour is........

[phomsanuk]

As a whole, men don't rape because they are feeling horny, according to the experts. They rape out of anger or because they get off on the feeling of power and the ability to subject someone to their whims.

These so called "experts" still believe in feminist ideology of 1970.

Now is 2010 and time to stop fantasizing. Rape is mainly caused by depriving men of sex. And it is an illusion that masturbation can be a proper substitute of sex. If things of nature would be so easy...

Thailand has a high rape rate, because many men are not able to get a woman because of low financial status. And despite the sex industry here, they just cannot fork out 1000-2000 Baht for a shag.

The same applies for countries like India and China. Huge number of young men never able to marry or have a girlfriend. This has big impact on society, not only about rape.

I agree but do you really think a Thai pays 1000-2000, come visit.

[GuestHouse]

That  insult was aimed at another poster who did not buy his theories and there are a number more. However, his "explanations" have been replied to numerous times and by numerous members, but he keeps repeating the same thing over and over again. Pointing out that his feminist rhetoric is mostly puritanical nonsense is just an excuse to start the broken record one more time.   

That was not an insult, it was a considered obligation, directed as it was towards a guy who gave us [sic] "Rape is merely theft of sex".

I'd say that is pretty far of the charts of a healthy view of other human beings, particularly in a thread where we have a victim of Rape. So yes I do believe he needs help.

[peter991]

Thanks for keeping open what could be a very explosive topic. I know many of us have strong feelings on the topic. As a gay guy who is a regular visitor to Thailand, I have male friends who work in bars, university-educated male friends and other guys who are 'regular' guys from Issan.

Probably the most amazing thing about Thailand - and something that amazes all first-time visitors to LOS is the attitude of Thai people to sexuality. Thais see it as something as natural as eating, sleeping and breathing. They do not have the same hang-ups we Westerners have about sex. It would be unthinkable to meet a straight guy for sex in a Western country. In Thailand, I would estimate the majority (of males working in gay bars) are straight guys with either a wife or a girlfriend (who often works in a straight bar).

Yes - there are gay guys working in gay bars - but to many, it is an occupation only. Where else can an uneducated Issan boy earn 30,000 baht a month?

[GuestHouse]

I don't know why people here cannot appear to accept that visiting prostitutes repeatedly may well diminish the need to hone the social skills, confidence, required to go out and attract a women who does not require payment for sex.  In my personal view GH is not far away with his perceptions, what appears to cloud the judgement of people here can only be the realisation that this may in a round about way apply to some of them!!!!

It MAY do a lot of things, but Guesthouse is implying that it applies to most of their customers and that is where he is completely wrong. 

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, and GH can certainly stick up for himself, but I interpreted his comments to be aimed at the men who constantly harp that a woman only wants one thing, money. If a man believes that, if he thinks all he can offer a woman is money, then I can buy his description of that as being emasculated.  But as I have also posted, I don't think most men fall into that category.  There are many reasons a man might patronize a prostitute which do not fall to the stated positions of sokal and thepanicandthevomit that all any woman wants is money.

You read me correctly on the first point that men who hold and express (ie truly believe) that the only thing a woman wants from a man is money are by definition emasculated - They believe they have no other worth to a woman.

With respect to using prostitutes, I've not said anything about why men choose to use prostitutes - but I have said and I do argue that doing so is an act of self emasculation.

In an earlier post I asked at what point did men who express the view that 'the only value a man has to a woman is money' come believe this.

Is it a long held view - Something the believed before coming to Thailand?

Is it a view they developed - after coming to Thailand and using prostitutes?

If the first, emasculated before arriving in Thailand - Hence my comment about Thailand attracting men with 'women issues'.

If the latter then that would support my view that using prostitutes does have a negative impact on the men who do so.

[GuestHouse]

What's with the 'all'? I think most men who patronize a prostitute would not be very young anymore, and most likely already in a relationship that covers all that non-monetary goodness. They visit a prostitute basically for some no-strings-attached fun. Some others might take up other hobbies, or a combination of hobbies of course. It doesn't make them less masculine to spend some personal time on things they think are fun? (Not that I object if you do feel it makes them less masculine, but I'll allow anyone their definitions. Personally I'd say a male who's stuck at home with the Mrs until death do them part is a bit emasculated (I'd use the word domesticated perhaps) but to each his own.

I think we've already discussed guys who are married using prostitutes and some of the response were not pretty (rather derogatory - I think the term scum was used by at least one respondent) - but not from me I'd add.

I take the simple view 'There's more than enough for any married man at home, it's just some guys can't reach it'.

[venturalaw]

What's with the 'all'? I think most men who patronize a prostitute would not be very young anymore, and most likely already in a relationship that covers all that non-monetary goodness. They visit a prostitute basically for some no-strings-attached fun. Some others might take up other hobbies, or a combination of hobbies of course. It doesn't make them less masculine to spend some personal time on things they think are fun? (Not that I object if you do feel it makes them less masculine, but I'll allow anyone their definitions. Personally I'd say a male who's stuck at home with the Mrs until death do them part is a bit emasculated (I'd use the word domesticated perhaps) but to each his own.

I take the simple view 'There's more than enough for any married man at home, it's just some guys can't reach it'.

After reading your posts, I have no doubt that you would take the 'simple view'.

Regarding your brilliant incite that 'it's just some guys can't reach it' - what is it that they are reaching for, and why are the 'guys' charged with said detail? More than enough of what? Be specific.

[IanForbes]

You read me correctly on the first point that men who hold and express (ie truly believe) that the only thing a woman wants from a man is money are by definition emasculated - They believe they have no other worth to a woman.

With respect to using prostitutes, I've not said anything about why men choose to use prostitutes - but I have said and I do argue that doing so is an act of self emasculation.

In an earlier post I asked at what point did men who express the view that 'the only value a man has to a woman is money' come believe this.

Is it a long held view - Something the believed before coming to Thailand?

Is it a view they developed - after coming to Thailand and using prostitutes?

If the first, emasculated before arriving in Thailand - Hence my comment about Thailand attracting men with 'women issues'.

If the latter then that would support my view that using prostitutes does have a negative impact on the men who do so.

I believe that you have it backwards. It is the 25% of the MARRIED men that are emasculated. You know, the 25% that Mark talks about who are still married, but unhappy about it and feel trapped. Everyone has their own separate reasons for staying in an unhappy relationship. The world is full of them, and they create employment for marriage couselors and lawyers. Of the remaining 25% who are happy with their spouse I salute them and wish them all the best. They were what we all aspired to when we first got married.

Most single men don't have women issues. The ones I know are quite happy with the arrangement. They are just honest and don't want to be trapped into a sucker's game. I'm old enough to have listened to all the stories from various generations and there is a common thread amongst most marriages. Sex between married couples pretty much ends around the age of 60. I saw it happen with my own parents who were both randy in their younger years. But after about age 55 they had separate bedrooms. I have lots of married friends from 50 to over 80, and it is unusual if they ever have sex. That doesn't mean they are not in love with each other, because I know for a fact that they are. It's just that the sexual part of their relationship has dried up. But, I often see the men's eyes light up when a pretty lady goes by.

What other people do with their lives doesn't concern me. I feel sad when good friends of mine split up, but understand that they have their own reasons that don't concern me. If they want to stay single then that's their choice. If they want to get married again that is also their choice. And, if the guys want to get their sex from prostitutes then that isn't my business either. What goes on between consenting adults is entirely up to themselves. I make no judgements either way

And, as i KEEP saying, there is no one size fits all answer. Anyone who says there is, is either naive or stupid. I know two guys who married former bar girls from Pattaya and they are still happily married 14 years later. I'm happy for all of them. I've got a lot of respect for the prostitutes of Thailandbecause they provide a valuable service for men without women. It is a tough occupation and I thank them for it. I also know there is the good, the bad and the ugly... just like people of all occupations and both sexes.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The Mrs is an excellent cook too, but it's not like going to a restaurant means I can't fully explore her culinary repertoire. Indeed when going with a prostitute the sex isn't even better (in fact it's a near guarantee that it's far worse, to the point of it not being comparable, or even not actually the same thing. ) And yet, occasionally you go for a burger & fries, knowing full well it doesn't compare in any way shape or form to the feasts at home.

[GarryP]

Yes, you should run out of the door when you are finished.

Actually WTK is quite correct. The sex is not usually better than you would get at home, supposing you have someone at home. Yet people still go out for it. I just do not understand why? Perhaps, while the quality of "it" at home may be very high, there tends not to be enough of it or it is unfairly rationed.

The analogy to food, however, goes straight over my head as I have no interest in food. I have a purely eat to live attitude. And a calloused right hand.

[mark45y]

What's with the 'all'? I think most men who patronize a prostitute would not be very young anymore, and most likely already in a relationship that covers all that non-monetary goodness. They visit a prostitute basically for some no-strings-attached fun. Some others might take up other hobbies, or a combination of hobbies of course. It doesn't make them less masculine to spend some personal time on things they think are fun? (Not that I object if you do feel it makes them less masculine, but I'll allow anyone their definitions. Personally I'd say a male who's stuck at home with the Mrs until death do them part is a bit emasculated (I'd use the word domesticated perhaps) but to each his own.

I think we've already discussed guys who are married using prostitutes and some of the response were not pretty (rather derogatory - I think the term scum was used by at least one respondent) - but not from me I'd add.

I take the simple view 'There's more than enough for any married man at home, it's just some guys can't reach it'.

Please correct me if I am wrong. You are married to a Thai woman and live in Thailand. You are gainfully employed and have a happy life and marriage. You are faithful to your wife and are completely satisfied sexually within your marriage. You don’t now nor have ever played around with hookers.

Is this you?

If it is and you are basing your theories on your own life and experiences and marriage, god love you but do you have any idea what kind of a minority you are in?

Give us a guess.

[GreenSnapper]

Yes, you should run out of the door when you are finished.

Actually WTK is quite correct. The sex is not usually better than you would get at home, supposing you have someone at home. Yet people still go out for it. I just do not understand why? Perhaps, while the quality of "it" at home may be very high, there tends not to be enough of it or it is unfairly rationed.

Simple reason: men are promiscuous by nature.

Evolution always tries to improve the species. For a man to have the optimum child, he must inseminate as many women as possible. That is his natural instinct.

And here comes the question: where do the emotions come from when it comes to prostitution? Why insult posters here as "emasculated", "need cure" and so on?

The answer is, it is insecurity and jealousy on those men who do what the poster secretly wants to do as well: inseminate many women.

We cannot change our nature. And those who try out of political correctness or some ideology end up as bitter, aggressive and unhappy.

[thaifkrlim]

some men visit even more prostitutes after they are married, some men never have visited any prostitute before marriage

why is it so?

[473geo]

some men visit even more prostitutes after they are married, some men never have visited any prostitute before marriage

why is it so?

Because when a young man many insist they 'would never pay for sex'..............later they maybe think why not?

[GarryP]

some men visit even more prostitutes after they are married, some men never have visited any prostitute before marriage

why is it so?

Because when a young man many insist they 'would never pay for sex'..............later they maybe think why not?

No, I think it is that perhaps they have no choice.

Edited July 18, 2010 by GarryP

[473geo]

Yes, you should run out of the door when you are finished.

Actually WTK is quite correct. The sex is not usually better than you would get at home, supposing you have someone at home. Yet people still go out for it. I just do not understand why? Perhaps, while the quality of "it" at home may be very high, there tends not to be enough of it or it is unfairly rationed.

Simple reason: men are promiscuous by nature.

Evolution always tries to improve the species. For a man to have the optimum child, he must inseminate as many women as possible. That is his natural instinct.

And here comes the question: where do the emotions come from when it comes to prostitution? Why insult posters here as "emasculated", "need cure" and so on?

The answer is, it is insecurity and jealousy on those men who do what the poster secretly wants to do as well: inseminate many women.

We cannot change our nature. And those who try out of political correctness or some ideology end up as bitter, aggressive and unhappy.

I wonder that this natural sex drive appears more prevalent in western men when they are in Thailand........in that they do not appear previously to have funded similar activities in their homelands.........perhaps the Thai women are just such good breeding material the urge is beyond control?

[GarryP]

^ Or could it just be that it is so much cheaper here? And, what is on offer here beats what is on offer back in the home country.

[GreenSnapper]

I wonder that this natural sex drive appears more prevalent in western men when they are in Thailand........in that they do not appear previously to have funded similar activities in their homelands.........perhaps the Thai women are just such good breeding material the urge is beyond control?

Has nothing to do with Western man. Thai men are actually more promiscuous, just think of the all those "motels" around every corner.

Most societies / religions / ideologies don't allow promiscuous behavior. Thailand is very relaxed in this aspect, so it happens more often. In a conservative Muslim country you will get harsh punishments, and it happens less often. But it still happens.

You cannot change human nature.

[Ulysses G.]

Gary P hit the nail on the head. How many men can turn down very attractive, willing, feminine and affordable women who will - at least pretend to - actually  enjoy your company? 

[GreenSnapper]

How many men can turn down very attractive, willing, feminine and affordable women who will - at least pretend to - actually  enjoy your company? 

I'm sure, the zealots here can turn down such offers.

But deep in their heart, when they return home to their wives, who may just have some severe "headache" that day, they feel this deep regret which they cannot and will not admit.

That's the reason where the bitterness and aggression comes from.

[473geo]

I wonder that this natural sex drive appears more prevalent in western men when they are in Thailand........in that they do not appear previously to have funded similar activities in their homelands.........perhaps the Thai women are just such good breeding material the urge is beyond control?

Has nothing to do with Western man. Thai men are actually more promiscuous, just think of the all those "motels" around every corner.

Most societies / religions / ideologies don't allow promiscuous behavior. Thailand is very relaxed in this aspect, so it happens more often. In a conservative Muslim country you will get harsh punishments, and it happens less often. But it still happens.

You cannot change human nature.

It would appear that an empty wallet may be able to at least deliver an element of control over 'human nature'..........maybe expensive supply may also curb the interest.....

[cardholder]

^ Or could it just be that it is so much cheaper here? And, what is on offer here beats what is on offer back in the home country.

Got it in a nutshell.

I would argue about your earlier post regarding "choice". Choice is exactly what I get and those younger/slimmer/older/fatter than me have exactly the same choice.

Pay your money and take your choice.

[Ulysses G.]

We cannot change our nature. And those who try out of political correctness or some ideology end up as bitter, aggressive and unhappy.

Just what I was thinking and don't forget envious.  

[sokal]

<br>

Ah, so now you are changing the rules of engagement after the first shots have been fired. OK, as far as initial attraction, women don't perk up when a handsome guy walks into the club? THey don't lust after life guards on the beach? (and lifeguards don't make much money)<br>

<br>I those poor couples you talk of probably have no sex because the girl has nothing to lose.<br><br>And how many women walked up to the life guard and said "lets have sex" ?<br>

<br><br><p>You obviously have never been around lifeguards much! In the US, and from what I have heard, in Australia, lifeguards tend to have a, shall we say, very busy social schedule? It is one of the perks of the job.<br></p><p>And writing about lifeguards, how about those Thai beach boys? When those visiting Western or Japanese women grab them for a night or two of fun, give them gifts and such, how does that fit into your world view of women as sexless money grabbers?</p><p>As far as your poor couple comment, frankly, I can't make heads nor tails just what you mean in your sentence.</p>

thats all talk.

and what do these women look like that these guys are supposedly sleeping around with ? Probably over weight older women.

[sokal]

Ah yes, I could become a victim of a western womans ways any time I want, I just dont want to. I hear horror stories all the time from my friends, mostly the ones with the hottest women. I am not the shortest fattest baldest guy around yet I have come to realize just what women really want. There is nothing wrong with it, its just natural.

In Thailand I can find just as hot of a woman with a way better attitude. There is no comparison.

Ah, so it becomes more clear. You are basing your views on women from what other disgruntled men told you about Western women. You don't have any experience on your own.

What about all the men who are happy with women, Western or not?

haha, I have had girlfriends in the west of course. That is what is so funny about guys like you that play this "you cant get them card". I came to realize that I didn't like western women BY BEING WITH THEM. Before me or my friends ever had a girlfriends, I liked women allot more.

[473geo]

We cannot change our nature. And those who try out of political correctness or some ideology end up as bitter, aggressive and unhappy.

Just what I was thinking and don't forget envious.

I have a choice.............a beautiful wife.........or if I choose pay for sex........or if I choose......both..........

But I choose my wife......now........ .......and I am happy...........

What were the choices of the pay for sex man again??.................

[MB1]

Ah yes, I could become a victim of a western womans ways any time I want, I just dont want to. I hear horror stories all the time from my friends, mostly the ones with the hottest women. I am not the shortest fattest baldest guy around yet I have come to realize just what women really want. There is nothing wrong with it, its just natural.

In Thailand I can find just as hot of a woman with a way better attitude. There is no comparison.

Ah, so it becomes more clear. You are basing your views on women from what other disgruntled men told you about Western women. You don't have any experience on your own.

What about all the men who are happy with women, Western or not?

haha, I have had girlfriends in the west of course. That is what is so funny about guys like you that play this "you cant get them card". I came to realize that I didn't like western women BY BEING WITH THEM. Before me or my friends ever had a girlfriends, I liked women allot more.

Or maybe you realized that western women DONT like you which is the reason you resent them.

Women don't want no strings attached rolls in the hay, that is why men pay.

If at 26 Sokal you've never expeirienced a no strings roll in the hay then maybe that's why you think that all women are after is money or maybe women sense something about you that they don't like which could be the reason you don't get free no strings attatched sex from them.

From some of your post I have a suspicion that you are very insecure and have very little experience with "free" women, maybe that's why you chose to come to a place like Thailand where women are so easy for sex,but deny to your self that some of the women your with are prostitutes and instead label them "girlfreind" to make yourself feel better inside."Self denial".

Did you see my post where i mentioned, "I wonder if someone who is in denial of being with a prostitute and prefers to call her a girlfreind comes from a God fearing strict religious background and would hate mummy or daddy to know that he's been with prostitutes", maybe that could relate to you.

If the cap fits, wear it.

[GreenSnapper]

But I choose my wife......now........ .......and I am happy...........

Nothing wrong about that, if you are truly happy. But if she is not available for some reasons, your instincts may play a role again.