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Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?


thaifkrlim

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If I didn't have whores I might not get out of bed today. I'm tired. If I didn't have whores I might not shave and do my laundry today.

If I didn't have whores I might stay home and eat noodles. If I didn't have whores I might feel sorry for myself and notice that my back hurts. I might not clip my toenails or brush my teeth. The dog don't care. He's a good old dog.

But I got up. Did the laundry and put it out on the balcony to dry. I shaved and made myself look as handsome as one can at my age.

I walked down a street lined with sleepy bars at 11:00 AM. I was going to stop for coffee at a little pastry shop when I heard my name from the open door of one of the closed bars. The owner was in the toilet brushing his beard and cracking the first beer of the day.

I said, Nut, why did you call me? No customers?" Nut is in her late 40's. Nut said, "no customers, yes. My boyfriend he to work in China." Nut, I said, "what do you want?" "C oh" she said, "C oh."

So Nut and I had a little talk and she told me about her daughter in her first year of medical school. She explained to me about the government loan and how her daughter would pay it back after she graduated by service in a government hospital. She told me about her second daughter who studied computer science and helped out her first daughter.

I left Nut and her bar after a couple of hours. She kissed me on the cheek at the door and we were both smiling as I walked out into the afternoon sunshine. I walked back home and penned this little piece. It is 3:29 PM Thailand time, do any of you really think I am an emasculated man?

No. I think you're v lucky to have found a country where you can meet women who will have sex with you (not to mention pretend they love you) at a cheap price.

To make it even better - unlike in your home country - other people will not look down on you for doing so. Most will warmly welcome you 'as a friend' for making them feel better about their own decisions (knowing they would be laughed at/shunned in their own country).....

Nothing AT ALL wrong with your decision to have relationships to women looking for money, as long as you don't try to pretend its anything different.

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So you are trying to support your puritanical views with imaginary statistics from one article that you have no way of confirming? Sounds about par for the course. Maybe you should throw in something more about being above personal attacks as long as you are equivocating.

Firstly, I challenge you to find anything puritanical in anything I've said. I've neither mentioned morals or religion.

Why bother? No matter what evidence is presented you just spin, ignore or deny it anyway. You have also falsely claimed that you do not make personal attacks while condemning another poster for the exact same thing.

I take it you can't produce any evidence of me being puritanical.

Or is it another case of me being devious and not saying things I've not said?

I am, I remind you, entitled to hold and express a different view than you - Don't take it so personally.

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emasculated, i don't know.

i do find you somewhat depressing though.

Beats watching Rooney play football.

Rooney plays good football... providing there is someone around to pass him the ball in space where he can do something with it. Some of the best players in the world didn't score a goal at the World Cup. They had little or no team support.

I had a similar day to yours except I went down to the river for a swim in the clear water. There were lots of cute young gals in bikinis and handsome young men swimming and having fun. But, not one said hello to me even though I was there for an hour. But, that is normal in Canada. Young people don't talk to old people. Had it been Thailand I would have been offered a beer and a chat. When ever I visit the small creek that comes down off Doi Suthep I see young people having a good time, and in every case they come over and say hello. Very often I've been invited for a beer or something to eat. In return I take a few photos and give them prints the next day when we agree to meet. Regardless of all the BS I hear about unfriendly Thais, that has not been my experience.

Of course, that has nothing to do about prostitution. But, it does show there are widely differing ideas about contentious topics and yet both sides in the debate can be right to some degree. I just don't buy the polarized viewpoints..

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 Both sides of the question should be heard.

On that we agree.

This topic and those of a like nature are probably not perceived as having two sides (both). The opinions expressed seem to run from yes to no and a multiple somewhere in between. How many shades are there from black to white? TV is probably a good sampling of the farang community in Thailand. We are all not missionaries nor sexpats thus we would probably not agree with either groups perspective nor reply. The world sure would be a boring place without what some call vices and other refer to as sowing your wild oats. I am just glad the opportunity is out there and hope I never reach the point that I would feel qualified to judge those who partake or abstain.

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Using prostitutes has little or no affect on the man... other than public distain for the practise.

There are a number of examples here of people completely switching off their critical thought in order to justify their views on prostitution and male/female relationships - At least one guy who clearly needs help.

Bingo.

Edited by bonobo
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Or then again, accept the way it is....

If she thinks she can find someone with more money - you're screw...d.

If she knows she can't - you're laughing.

She will do everything in her power to convince you she loves you - even though she actually loves the better life you afford her.

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do any of you really think I am an emasculated man?

On the contrary, Mark45y, as one still living here in Latex Land (America), I find you and many others on this forum a ray of sunshine during a very long period of cloudy days. Like all who visit Thailand, I get the question, "Why do you visit Thailand?" I tell questioners that I enjoy meeting people from all around the world, which is true. But I don't even try to explain to them that Thailand is the only place I can go in this day and age where I can interact with those relatively few other people for whom the programming didn't take. That is, either the Western programming didn't take or, through their own efforts they successfully de-programmed themselves. I salute all the freed minds on this forum, and I look forward to interacting with you in person once again as soon as possible.

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do any of you really think I am an emasculated man?

On the contrary, Mark45y, as one still living here in Latex Land (America), I find you and many others on this forum a ray of sunshine during a very long period of cloudy days. Like all who visit Thailand, I get the question, "Why do you visit Thailand?" I tell questioners that I enjoy meeting people from all around the world, which is true. But I don't even try to explain to them that Thailand is the only place I can go in this day and age where I can interact with those relatively few other people for whom the programming didn't take. That is, either the Western programming didn't take or, through their own efforts they successfully de-programmed themselves. I salute all the freed minds on this forum, and I look forward to interacting with you in person once again as soon as possible.

Funniest post I've read in a long time!

Thais aren't at all 'programmed' whereas Westerners are..... B)

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You're trying to be too logical.

As I posted before "I think you're v lucky to have found a country where you can meet women who will have sex with you (not to mention pretend they love you) at a cheap price.

To make it even better - unlike in your home country - other people will not look down on you for doing so. Most will warmly welcome you 'as a friend' for making them feel better about their own decisions (knowing they would be laughed at/shunned in their own country).....

Nothing AT ALL wrong with your decision to have relationships to women looking for money, as long as you don't try to pretend its anything different.

Edited by F1fanatic
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You're trying to be too logical.

As I posted before "I think you're v lucky to have found a country where you can meet women who will have sex with you (not to mention pretend they love you) at a cheap price.

To make it even better - unlike in your home country - other people will not look down on you for doing so. Most will warmly welcome you 'as a friend' for making them feel better about their own decisions (knowing they would be laughed at/shunned in their own country).....

Nothing AT ALL wrong with your decision to have relationships to women looking for money, as long as you don't try to pretend its anything different.

So F1 do you support the theory suggested on this thread that the male always pays for sex one way or another.........or would you support the view that people who pay for sex tend to express this attitude because they pay for sex?

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Programming is an interesting thought.

I was young when I realized about the programming. I got drafted and sent to South East Asia. When I left college the women were wearing stockings and garter belts.

I got back and found they were wearing pantyhose.

Honest I wouldn’t lie to you. Everyone had switched.

I left the country again to work and when I came back there was sexual harassment. It wasn’t there when I left. No one was harassing anyone. When I got back men were running for the hills.

I think some men who post on Thai Visa are living in Thailand but their minds are still in the west.

They see what they see but miss the point. They think Issan is Kansas with skinny women.

Guesthouse thinks there are enslaved abused women on every corner. And Sokol thinks Thai women only do guys for money.

There is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends. The dancers pay for everything for the boyfriends. They pay for rent and food and cash for spending.

Guesthouse claims to speak Thai and know some Thai bar girls and has heard their sad stories. 90% of Thai bar girls support Thai husbands or boyfriends if he didn’t hear those stories he was just a John. Like all the other Johns that get the standard line.

Is his information to be beloved? No, of course not he was just another potential customer. He has never lived with one let alone twenty or thirty bar girls. He has not the experience to even talk about the genre with most falang men living in Thailand.

He has bought the story he has read from NGO’s or others in the west who are not able to find the truth or when find can’t report it because it is not in their programming to compute.

But that is his right. It is his programming but I hope no one confuses it with the voices of experience.

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You're trying to be too logical.

As I posted before "I think you're v lucky to have found a country where you can meet women who will have sex with you (not to mention pretend they love you) at a cheap price.

To make it even better - unlike in your home country - other people will not look down on you for doing so. Most will warmly welcome you 'as a friend' for making them feel better about their own decisions (knowing they would be laughed at/shunned in their own country).....

Nothing AT ALL wrong with your decision to have relationships to women looking for money, as long as you don't try to pretend its anything different.

So F1 do you support the theory suggested on this thread that the male always pays for sex one way or another.........or would you support the view that people who pay for sex tend to express this attitude because they pay for sex?

Not at all. Having been married for nearly 3 decades in the West (when we were earning similar amounts), I know that the male only pays for sex if he is desperate enough to do so....

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Let's cut to the chase - there's absolutely nothing wrong with paying for sex - its been going on for centuries.

The problem arises here only because here, they pretend its 'love', not money...Happens all the time.

A tiny minority learn their lesson the hard way, the rest make the same mistake again.....

Edited by F1fanatic
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Funniest post I've read in a long time!

Thais aren't at all 'programmed' whereas Westerners are.....

Sorry. A clear case of bad writing on my part. To clarify, when I say that I enjoy going to Thailand to interact with other un-programmed or de-progammed people, I mean that only in respect to non-Thai people. It's the set of non-programmed farangs who happen to visit or live in Thailand that I'm attracted to. I would enjoy interacting with this set of people anywhere. Thailand just happens to be the place where they congregate.

If I could somehow convince all the freed minds on this forum to move to Sacramento, California, I would do so in a heartbeat. Here, I often feel like I must be some kind of alien species. But amongst the farangs hanging in Thailand, I feel wonderful. Remember Ian's idea of "Here, young people don't talk to old people." That's in Canada, I believe, and it is so sad. But it can be even worse than that here in Latex Land (America). Sometimes I can go a whole day here without anyone really talking to me at all other than as they're required to by their job function. But if we were to talk, the conversation is always subject to the constraints of the programming. In Thailand, amongst the farang crowd, on the other hand, I greatly enjoy the opportunity to speak and think freely on any and all subjects--no Western programming constraints in sight.

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You're trying to be too logical.

As I posted before "I think you're v lucky to have found a country where you can meet women who will have sex with you (not to mention pretend they love you) at a cheap price.

To make it even better - unlike in your home country - other people will not look down on you for doing so. Most will warmly welcome you 'as a friend' for making them feel better about their own decisions (knowing they would be laughed at/shunned in their own country).....

Nothing AT ALL wrong with your decision to have relationships to women looking for money, as long as you don't try to pretend its anything different.

So F1 do you support the theory suggested on this thread that the male always pays for sex one way or another.........or would you support the view that people who pay for sex tend to express this attitude because they pay for sex?

I have stated this a number of times in this thread and you didn’t ask me but I hope you won’t mind me answering.

Men don’t always pay for sex. And certainly not in Thailand.

Lets dismiss out of hand the ladies who have pimps. There are lots of reasons for that and I assume everyone knows the good and bad reasons.

Lets stick to the boyfriends or husbands that get paid for sex.

Are Thai prostitutes normally married or single? They are normally married. The ones who are not married have boyfriends and the ones who don’t have boyfriends use men for short time sex. Yes this is after a hard day at the bar. They go out at night and screw some more.

You don’t believe me do you? Sit on the corner of Soi Bukhow and Soi LC Metro. There is a club that stops work at midnight. The ladies rarely go home with Falang so they all leave work at around midnight. See who picks them up and if they don’t get picked up see where they go. Or if you are adventurous, when they are waiting for a baht bus tell them you want to hear some Issan music and you are paying. They will take you with them and you can see for yourself.

Thai women are a lot of fun and even more fun if they realize you are not a judgmental bozo.

So to sum up. Thai female prostitutes pay for sex. I am not talking about love, or protection or security. Just straight up sex. Is sex free for some men? Better than free it is paid and the guy gets to sleep late and go out with the boys all night long until the little lady gets off of work.

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Programming is an interesting thought.

I was young when I realized about the programming. I got drafted and sent to South East Asia. When I left college the women were wearing stockings and garter belts.

I got back and found they were wearing pantyhose.

Honest I wouldn't lie to you. Everyone had switched.

I left the country again to work and when I came back there was sexual harassment. It wasn't there when I left. No one was harassing anyone. When I got back men were running for the hills.

I think some men who post on Thai Visa are living in Thailand but their minds are still in the west.

They see what they see but miss the point. They think Issan is Kansas with skinny women.

Guesthouse thinks there are enslaved abused women on every corner. And Sokol thinks Thai women only do guys for money.

There is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends. The dancers pay for everything for the boyfriends. They pay for rent and food and cash for spending.

Guesthouse claims to speak Thai and know some Thai bar girls and has heard their sad stories. 90% of Thai bar girls support Thai husbands or boyfriends if he didn't hear those stories he was just a John. Like all the other Johns that get the standard line.

Is his information to be beloved? No, of course not he was just another potential customer. He has never lived with one let alone twenty or thirty bar girls. He has not the experience to even talk about the genre with most falang men living in Thailand.

He has bought the story he has read from NGO's or others in the west who are not able to find the truth or when find can't report it because it is not in their programming to compute.

But that is his right. It is his programming but I hope no one confuses it with the voices of experience.

"here is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends." - So why were they in falang bars?

Obviously it can't be because they were looking for a falang b/f.... even though they would have preferred a Thai, but unlike their friends - were unable to find a male Thai that would be happy with them screw....g a falang and giving their 'earned' money to their b/f.

Good grief - grow up people! It may go against the grain for Westerners to seek money above love, but its the norm here..... in fact they are proud of it instead of ashamed....

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You're trying to be too logical.

As I posted before "I think you're v lucky to have found a country where you can meet women who will have sex with you (not to mention pretend they love you) at a cheap price.

To make it even better - unlike in your home country - other people will not look down on you for doing so. Most will warmly welcome you 'as a friend' for making them feel better about their own decisions (knowing they would be laughed at/shunned in their own country).....

Nothing AT ALL wrong with your decision to have relationships to women looking for money, as long as you don't try to pretend its anything different.

So F1 do you support the theory suggested on this thread that the male always pays for sex one way or another.........or would you support the view that people who pay for sex tend to express this attitude because they pay for sex?

Not at all. Having been married for nearly 3 decades in the West (when we were earning similar amounts), I know that the male only pays for sex if he is desperate enough to do so....

My wife had an affair. Wasn’t really her fault. I traveled 5 days a week as part of my job. My partner stayed home and ran the administrative part of the business. Our wives were very close as were our families (holidays together and things like that). It was a nice close knit company. A little too close knit actually because I discovered my partner was booming my wife while I was out of town. His wife didn’t care for it much either. In fact, she told me about it.

I didn’t want to get a divorce because of the kids but it certainly took the edge off our sex lives. The office wasn’t much fun either. I really liked my partner and at the same time wanted to shoot him. It was tense. I think perhaps you can understand why paying for sex in a situation like that is not really the act of a desperate man.

When I was on the road I had always been faithful to my wife until the affair. I traveled to San Francisco, San Diego, Reno and Las Vegas. There was always a lot of temptation after the affair it was no longer temptation it was fun.

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They are in a farang bar because the have a so-so look and still want to earn decent money...the competition is much fiercer in the non-tourist places. And some tourists don't mind tipping the girls in terms of 4 times the fee (i,e, paying 10k when the girl asked for 2k.)

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Mark ,you appear to display an arrogance that can only come from a belief you are the only person who has got to look behind the prostitution scene in Thailand, I do not question your history, but you are not alone in this category, which might explain why some of your posts come across to me, not as informative, but rather condescending.

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Programming is an interesting thought.

I was young when I realized about the programming. I got drafted and sent to South East Asia. When I left college the women were wearing stockings and garter belts.

I got back and found they were wearing pantyhose.

Honest I wouldn't lie to you. Everyone had switched.

I left the country again to work and when I came back there was sexual harassment. It wasn't there when I left. No one was harassing anyone. When I got back men were running for the hills.

I think some men who post on Thai Visa are living in Thailand but their minds are still in the west.

They see what they see but miss the point. They think Issan is Kansas with skinny women.

Guesthouse thinks there are enslaved abused women on every corner. And Sokol thinks Thai women only do guys for money.

There is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends. The dancers pay for everything for the boyfriends. They pay for rent and food and cash for spending.

Guesthouse claims to speak Thai and know some Thai bar girls and has heard their sad stories. 90% of Thai bar girls support Thai husbands or boyfriends if he didn't hear those stories he was just a John. Like all the other Johns that get the standard line.

Is his information to be beloved? No, of course not he was just another potential customer. He has never lived with one let alone twenty or thirty bar girls. He has not the experience to even talk about the genre with most falang men living in Thailand.

He has bought the story he has read from NGO's or others in the west who are not able to find the truth or when find can't report it because it is not in their programming to compute.

But that is his right. It is his programming but I hope no one confuses it with the voices of experience.

"here is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends." - So why were they in falang bars?

Obviously it can't be because they were looking for a falang b/f.... even though they would have preferred a Thai, but unlike their friends - were unable to find a male Thai that would be happy with them screw....g a falang and giving their 'earned' money to their b/f.

Good grief - grow up people! It may go against the grain for Westerners to seek money above love, but its the norm here..... in fact they are proud of it instead of ashamed....

Most Thai prostitutes never work in a Falang bar. Only 5 to 10%. The pay isn’t much better in a Falang bar but there are so few in comparison with Thai bars that it is just a matter of supply and demand.

The four Falang boyfriends were pretty cool. One was a dive instructor, one an AWOL soldier, one an out of work musician and the last one was a 16 year old English kid who came to Pattaya with his father because his mother kicked him out of the house in England. He was the funny one. His lady, who was 18 bought him a Honda 150 CBR motorcycle and lots of gold. It was hysterical watching him do his imitation of a hip hop black guy.

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Some of you have undoubtedly noticed that a number of posts have gone into delete-land.  And some of you spent quite a bit of time writing up your rejoinders/attacks/whatever.

I really hope you get the hint.  Personal attacks are not tolerated.

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Programming is an interesting thought.

I was young when I realized about the programming. I got drafted and sent to South East Asia. When I left college the women were wearing stockings and garter belts.

I got back and found they were wearing pantyhose.

Honest I wouldn't lie to you. Everyone had switched.

I left the country again to work and when I came back there was sexual harassment. It wasn't there when I left. No one was harassing anyone. When I got back men were running for the hills.

I think some men who post on Thai Visa are living in Thailand but their minds are still in the west.

They see what they see but miss the point. They think Issan is Kansas with skinny women.

Guesthouse thinks there are enslaved abused women on every corner. And Sokol thinks Thai women only do guys for money.

There is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends. The dancers pay for everything for the boyfriends. They pay for rent and food and cash for spending.

Guesthouse claims to speak Thai and know some Thai bar girls and has heard their sad stories. 90% of Thai bar girls support Thai husbands or boyfriends if he didn't hear those stories he was just a John. Like all the other Johns that get the standard line.

Is his information to be beloved? No, of course not he was just another potential customer. He has never lived with one let alone twenty or thirty bar girls. He has not the experience to even talk about the genre with most falang men living in Thailand.

He has bought the story he has read from NGO's or others in the west who are not able to find the truth or when find can't report it because it is not in their programming to compute.

But that is his right. It is his programming but I hope no one confuses it with the voices of experience.

"here is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends." - So why were they in falang bars?

Obviously it can't be because they were looking for a falang b/f.... even though they would have preferred a Thai, but unlike their friends - were unable to find a male Thai that would be happy with them screw....g a falang and giving their 'earned' money to their b/f.

Good grief - grow up people! It may go against the grain for Westerners to seek money above love, but its the norm here..... in fact they are proud of it instead of ashamed....

Most Thai prostitutes never work in a Falang bar. Only 5 to 10%. The pay isn't much better in a Falang bar but there are so few in comparison with Thai bars that it is just a matter of supply and demand.

The four Falang boyfriends were pretty cool. One was a dive instructor, one an AWOL soldier, one an out of work musician and the last one was a 16 year old English kid who came to Pattaya with his father because his mother kicked him out of the house in England. He was the funny one. His lady, who was 18 bought him a Honda 150 CBR motorcycle and lots of gold. It was hysterical watching him do his imitation of a hip hop black guy.

You're kidding right??

Prossy's that work in Thai bars don't think they're attractive enough to work in a falang bar.... They would ALL give anything for a falang male that obviously must be 'rich' - by their definition.

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

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Mark ,you appear to display an arrogance that can only come from a belief you are the only person who has got to look behind the prostitution scene in Thailand, I do not question your history, but you are not alone in this category, which might explain why some of your posts come across to me, not as informative, but rather condescending.

You are right. First, most people posting on this forum don’t live in Thailand. Second, most don’t live with Thai prostitutes as roommates. They may have girlfriends or wives who have been prostitutes but rarely are they in a peer relationship with prostitutes.

Do I know more about prostitutes than a bar owner? Sure. A bar owner is in a bad position to really know what is going on even though it is his bar. The girls don’t talk to the Falang boss. The girls talk to the mamma san.

So, you tell me. How many guys do you know that have had 6 bar girls for roommates in the past couple of years? Not sex partners - roommates. Big difference.

Frankly I have not met anyone else with the same background as I have. I was doing the same thing in 1968 as I did a couple of years ago. In 68 and 69 I lived with bar girls in Saigon and Sattahip. Did the same thing a few years ago, different ladies. The only other guy I know of, I used to work with in Vietnam. Now he runs strip clubs in Vegas and Florida but he is getting pretty old. If you know of anyone with similar experience I would love to meet him.

You are right about the condescending attitude but look on the bright side. The information is free.

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Mark ,you appear to display an arrogance that can only come from a belief you are the only person who has got to look behind the prostitution scene in Thailand, I do not question your history, but you are not alone in this category, which might explain why some of your posts come across to me, not as informative, but rather condescending.

You are right. First, most people posting on this forum don't live in Thailand. Second, most don't live with Thai prostitutes as roommates. They may have girlfriends or wives who have been prostitutes but rarely are they in a peer relationship with prostitutes.

Do I know more about prostitutes than a bar owner? Sure. A bar owner is in a bad position to really know what is going on even though it is his bar. The girls don't talk to the Falang boss. The girls talk to the mamma san.

So, you tell me. How many guys do you know that have had 6 bar girls for roommates in the past couple of years? Not sex partners - roommates. Big difference.

Frankly I have not met anyone else with the same background as I have. I was doing the same thing in 1968 as I did a couple of years ago. In 68 and 69 I lived with bar girls in Saigon and Sattahip. Did the same thing a few years ago, different ladies. The only other guy I know of, I used to work with in Vietnam. Now he runs strip clubs in Vegas and Florida but he is getting pretty old. If you know of anyone with similar experience I would love to meet him.

You are right about the condescending attitude but look on the bright side. The information is free.

Amazingly, most of us do live in Thailand and have done so for a few years.... so know the score.

But I'm sure you're right (despite my personal experience), they are lovable, shy women (despite selling their bodies for money), and just looking for love.

Sorry to be condescending, but I have no idea how you're missing out on reality.....

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from the OP:

People have their own perception when it comes to to the word ‘Prostitution’...

[snip]

Maybe u guys have something to share about this ‘pay for sex’ thing, is it wrong to pay for sex..?

Ive requoted from the OP, and highlighted the point in question/discussion.

you can state your opinion, share your views (but as usual - we dont want the details of the how, the where)

other than that, any more posts that are not on topic, will be deleted. AND ofcourse as Bonobo stated above - personal attacks are a no-no. not only will they be deleted, the poster will be warned. and now that repeated public warnings have been given, the offender will also have their posting rights suspended.

cheers

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