Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[sokal]

I have a friend who is an investor. He is married to a very nice Thai lady and has been for some time. He buys the properties in her name and sells them for a profit. He also has a number of other businesses. They are a partnership of equals. But deep down inside he is emasculated. His balls tighten up when he realizes she actually owns everything. She is dependent on his expertise and as long as she realizes this they are OK. Sometimes he invents excuses to see other men who are not married and use prostitutes as emasculated to make himself feel better.

I have another friend who works offshore and owns (rents) three business in Thailand all in his name. He does not have a wife and uses prostitutes exclusively for feminine companionship. He is a wealthy man because of his offshore earnings and mainly uses his Thai business as a hobby. Sometimes he invents excuses to see men with wives as emasculated to make himself feel better.

Both men are in their late 40's and both see men other than themselves as emasculated.

Both men are sincere but have a difficult time seeing the reality of others lives because of their unique positions in life.

Who is right? Both actually. If the investor with the Thai wife used prostitutes he would become emasculated or if the off shore worker got married he would be emasculated.

But they are only right for themselves. When they apply their unique positions to other people the logic breaks down.

You could make the case that every time a person masturbates they are becoming emasculated or independent of the social skills to have a meaningful sex life with another person. But no one does because masturbation is a natural function. To some, I'm sure masturbation and using a prostitute is the same thing. You could make the case that every time a man or woman fantasizes about another person they are loosing touch with reality but no one does. Using prostitutes for some is a simple fantasy fulfillment and nothing more.

Why all the emotion in this argument? Does anyone care if an old punter who no one knows becomes emasculated or a 70 year old man has less social skills to attract a partner? That's laughable and of course untrue.

The emasculation argument or social skills argument is purely a personal validation argument or statement. It has far more to do with the poster than the people the poster is talking about. It is a validation of their own lifestyle as opposed to a statement about other people and should be seen as such.

I think you are the one that is frustrated. After reading some of these posts you are probably looking back at all your failed relationships and realized that you got raked over the coals and money played a part in it and now you are starting to realize it.

You are in denial, you want to think that the woman you are currently with, looks the way she does not because of the status that you hold. You just cant accept the fact that if you made a seven figure income, you would have a better looking woman. The more you read about the more frustrated you get and that is why your posts get more insulting every time.

[sokal]

If at 26 Sokal you've never expeirienced a no strings roll in the hay then maybe that's why you think that all women are after is money or maybe women sense something about you that they don't like which could be the reason you don't get free no strings attatched sex from them.

From some of your post I have a suspicion that you are very insecure and have very little experience with "free" women, maybe that's why you chose to come to a place like Thailand where women are so easy for sex,but deny to your self that some of the women your with are prostitutes and instead label them "girlfreind" to make yourself feel better inside."Self denial".

Did you see my post where i mentioned, "I wonder if someone who is in denial of being with a prostitute and prefers to call her a girlfreind comes from a God fearing strict religious background and would hate mummy or daddy to know that he's been with prostitutes", maybe that could relate to you.

If the cap fits, wear it.

Yeah yeah, another guy plays the "you cant get them" card. I have had girlfriends and some one night stands (with girls that wanted me to be their boyfriend but I didnt)

So what would you want your daughter to do ? Sleep around like a slut for free at parties or date and court wealthy successful men ?

If you had a 10 out of 10 daughter and she brought home a guy on welfare would you tell her she could do better ?

[sokal]

have very little experience with "free" women

The so called "free women" in the West are not so free when you look closer. Actually they do the same what a Gullivers-Freelancer does: she shags around "with no strings attached" and is of course very proud to be "free" and "independant".

Reality is, she still dreams of the knight on a white horse who will end her "freedom".

Don't listen what women say - but listen what women do.

But when I get a one night stand in the UK or a bit on the side for a period of time I don't pay her rent or other bills, I don't go with free loaders and the women I go with in the UK have their own money to be able to pay their way.

Spot the difference..

What if you stayed with them for a month ?

And what do these women look like ?

How much do they tend to weigh ? 350 pounds average ? yum yum.

Yes yes, you will say they where hot by this is the internet. You can lie all you want.

[sokal]

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<br>I don't know why people here cannot appear to accept that visiting prostitutes repeatedly may well diminish the need to hone the social skills, confidence, required to go out and attract a women who does not require payment for sex.  In my personal view GH is not far away with his perceptions, what appears to cloud the judgement of people here can only be the realisation that this may in a round about way apply to some of them!!!!<br>

<br><br>It MAY do a lot of things, but Guesthouse is implying that it applies to <i>most </i>of their customers and that is where he is completely wrong. <br>

<br><br>I don't want to beat a dead horse here, and GH can certainly stick up for himself, but I interpreted his comments to be aimed at the men who constantly harp that a woman only wants one thing, money. If a man believes that, if he thinks all he can offer a woman is money, then I can buy his description of that as being emasculated.  But as I have also posted, I don't think most men fall into that category.  There are many reasons a man might patronize a prostitute which do not fall to the stated positions of sokal and thepanicandthevomit that all any woman wants is money.<br>

<br><br>You read me correctly on the first point that men who hold and express (ie truly believe) that the only thing a woman wants from a man is money are by definition emasculated - They believe they have no other worth to a woman.<br><br>With respect to using prostitutes, I've not said anything about why men choose to use prostitutes - but I have said and I do argue that doing so is an act of self emasculation. <br><br><br>In an earlier post I asked at what point did men who express the view that 'the only value a man has to a woman is money' come believe this.<br><br>Is it a long held view - Something the believed before coming to Thailand?<br>Is it a view they developed - after coming to Thailand and using prostitutes?<br><br>If the first, emasculated before arriving in Thailand - Hence my comment about Thailand attracting men with 'women issues'.<br><br>If the latter then that would support my view that using prostitutes does have a negative impact on the men who do so.<br>

<br><br>More frustration and more denial.<br><br>You are just devastated to hear that it might not  just  be your charisma, looks, shape or the size of your penis that is dictating your worth to women.  Just the thought is hurting your over inflated ego isn't it ?<br><br><br><br><br> Edited July 19, 2010 by sokal

[sokal]

I don't know why people here cannot appear to accept that visiting prostitutes repeatedly may well diminish the need to hone the social skills, confidence, required to go out and attract a women who does not require payment for sex. In my personal view GH is not far away with his perceptions, what appears to cloud the judgement of people here can only be the realisation that this may in a round about way apply to some of them!!!!

It MAY do a lot of things, but Guesthouse is implying that it applies to most of their customers and that is where he is completely wrong.

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, and GH can certainly stick up for himself, but I interpreted his comments to be aimed at the men who constantly harp that a woman only wants one thing, money. If a man believes that, if he thinks all he can offer a woman is money, then I can buy his description of that as being emasculated. But as I have also posted, I don't think most men fall into that category. There are many reasons a man might patronize a prostitute which do not fall to the stated positions of sokal and thepanicandthevomit that all any woman wants is money.

You read me correctly on the first point that men who hold and express (ie truly believe) that the only thing a woman wants from a man is money are by definition emasculated - They believe they have no other worth to a woman.

With respect to using prostitutes, I've not said anything about why men choose to use prostitutes - but I have said and I do argue that doing so is an act of self emasculation.

In an earlier post I asked at what point did men who express the view that 'the only value a man has to a woman is money' come believe this.

Is it a long held view - Something the believed before coming to Thailand?

Is it a view they developed - after coming to Thailand and using prostitutes?

If the first, emasculated before arriving in Thailand - Hence my comment about Thailand attracting men with 'women issues'.

If the latter then that would support my view that using prostitutes does have a negative impact on the men who do so.

Edited July 19, 2010 by sokal

[Crushdepth]

Some of you lot need to get out more. Especially the ones who think women don't like porn, don't have orgasms and don't do casual flings. Jeez...

[bonobo]

If at 26 Sokal you've never expeirienced a no strings roll in the hay then maybe that's why you think that all women are after is money or maybe women sense something about you that they don't like which could be the reason you don't get free no strings attatched sex from them.

From some of your post I have a suspicion that you are very insecure and have very little experience with "free" women, maybe that's why you chose to come to a place like Thailand where women are so easy for sex,but deny to your self that some of the women your with are prostitutes and instead label them "girlfreind" to make yourself feel better inside."Self denial".

Did you see my post where i mentioned, "I wonder if someone who is in denial of being with a prostitute and prefers to call her a girlfreind comes from a God fearing strict religious background and would hate mummy or daddy to know that he's been with prostitutes", maybe that could relate to you.

If the cap fits, wear it.

Yeah yeah, another guy plays the "you cant get them" card. I have had girlfriends and some one night stands (with girls that wanted me to be their boyfriend but I didnt)

So what would you want your daughter to do ? Sleep around like a slut for free at parties or date and court wealthy successful men ?

If you had a 10 out of 10 daughter and she brought home a guy on welfare would you tell her she could do better ?

(Not aimed at me, but let me take a stab at it.)

First of all, a "10" daughter, or any woman, is based on who she is, not on her appearances. I would not be so shallow as to rate my daughter on her looks.

Second, if my daughter choses to share her intimacy or go after wealthy men, well, that is her choice. Certainly not mine.

And thirdly, as has been pointed out, financial status does not equate to happiness. Another poster pointed out that one daughter married a well-placed guy who ended up getting "placed" in prison, while another married a man much lower on the perceived social scale but who is still happily married to that loving man.

Your fascination with money is just that, yours. I don't judge people on their money, but rather on their actions. I would hope that I would have given any daughter the foundation in life to make good choices, but I would support and love them no matter what choices they did make. (And who is to say my choices would be any better? I am not from a society which selects spouses for my children.)

Just an observation here: a girl who has sex with men for the enjoyment of it is a "slut" as you term it, yet a woman who seeks only wealthy men is "courting." Interesting. So "selling" yourself for money is described with a complimentary term, but sharing mutual enjoyment carries a negative term? Very interesting insight as to your personality, and I think that explains more about your posts than your age or anything else.

[leemac]

I haven't read all posts here, but I feel qualified to comment based on the couple of dozen I have read.

Before I do that, I'll point out that I'm not tall, not build like a body builder but slim to medium, and I consider myself above average in looks- not out of vanity or narcissism, just because I have eyes and and have done very well with the ladies in my younger years- better than almost any other guy I have met.

I have had a lot of sex without paying for it. The number or women is in the double figured dozens, I reckon. I just got lucky with looks and learned how, when, where, and who to get it from.

As a result, I became very knowledgeable and understanding of both men's and womens emotions, both with sex and with love.

There isn't that much difference really- both parties get horny and like to bang. Too much of it desensitises you and can corrupt your soul, too little can do the same, and a balanced amount is good for mind, body, and soul.

Marriage isn't prostitution. The people who say so are usually those who've been stung by nasty break-ups and have had to pay alimony/child support, so they are understandably bitter.

Marriage is for love. It used to be for convenience, but nowadays it's a love, commitment and devotion ceremony. Prostitution is a one off deal- one party needs cash, the other party wants sexual gratification, they trade- cash for a service. No love, commitment, or devotion is involved. Sure, it can cost, but so can being single and not having someone to entertain you cheaply, paying for sex, drinking more, and sharing accommodation, meals, chores etc that you otherwise might pay more for.

Most women can and do orgasm. In my entire sexual history, only a few women have never been able to orgasm at all. If most of yours aren't able to, either you're very unlucky or (more likely) not doing it right. then again, if you only do it with "working girls", they are so desensitised to sex that you're pushing shit uphill to try to get them off. I only succeeded with one bar girl at this, and only when she had a hangover (which made her mega-horny!).

Some women can get off in minutes, others only orgasm a handful of times in their life. It's like men- some last minutes, some (like me) take a while (usually 20-40 minutes, up to an hour or more sometimes), most are in the middle I think. Society says men should last longer, but trust me, getting told to stop before you're done is not fun. It's just like everyone saying women with big tits are better. They are good to look at, sometimes, but I prefer small, sensitive and firm/perky, to big, insensitive and floppy/squishy. Everyone's different and everyone has different tastes.

Now I didn't pay for sex until I was in my early 30's, but I did buy the odd girl a coffee, dinner, drinks etc to get it. They didn't usually try to "hold" me after one shag, unless they were really inexperienced or we had been dating for a long while beforehand (ie: more than 3-4 dates).

Some just wanted sex. At one stage when I was 21, I broke up with a Korean girl who wanted to marry for residency. She married an older Korean resident in my country, then came over at random hours demanding sex. It was always kinky, rough, dirty sex, and I LOVED it! Another time in my early 20's, maybe 3 years later, I was seeing three girls at once, on and off. One was engaged to a man overseas and wanted to have her affair in my country before settling into married life. Another was planning to get engaged and married soon, again to a man back home, and wanted to try out white guys first. The third was chasing someone who she loved, but he wasn't interested. She still had sexual desires though, and I got to fulfil them for her.

This alone shows us that women are NOT using sex "to get something", and they DO have sexual desires and CAN separate love and sex, thesame as men do.

We are different, but not as much as everyone seems to think.

You happened to grow up around a bunch of sluts so now you think you know more about this then anyone else ?

BTW allot of what you wrote goes against some basic biology which is what this is really about.

Sorry for the late reply- I was out getting laid with a young woman who wanted nothing more than a good time and some male company. You see, she's only here for two more months, so there's no fear of damaging her reputation, she has nothing to lose, so she is free to do what she wants. She's financially stable, but lonely, and just wants someone to hold and make love to. It's basic biology. Women love male company.

There seems to be a strong attitude of woman hating around this forum, which is to be expected. There are a lot of men here who have been stung by women, so the men here are generally either victims of bad women or men who feel inadequate for Western women. Then there are those who just can't resist the exotic allure of Asian women- I'm in this category.

I didn't happen to grow up around a bunch of sluts, and the fact that you would talk about women this way shows us which of the above groups you fall into. I'm sorry to hear that, life must have been cruel to you. Not all women are bad though. There will always be scheming, conniving, sneaky, cunning women who will twist and manipulate things to get their way with you. Just like there will always be men who are the same. Who rape women, molest children, bash both groups, lie, cheat, and steal. And on the flipside, there are good people out there.

Learning how to filter the bad ones out of your life and keep the good ones in is a valuable skill, that will see you live a life of happiness, surrounded by people you can trust and count on.

Be one of the good ones.

@ Payboy - Way to go stud - but Is It Wrong To Pay For Prostitution?

Paying for sex isn't evil, but remember that she is doing a job. Much like a masseuse, a hairdresser, a cook, a toilet cleaner, or a lawyer. Would you abuse someone in another job? Or make them do something disgusting against their will? Talk down to them or treat them like slaves, rather than paid service providers? Some guys do.

Then on the other hand, would you expect her to love you, introduce you to her family, know what your favourite song is or how to make your coffee in the morning? Would you expect to find love notes tucked into your lunch box with your favourite sandwich on your anniversary, or to have her hold your hand in silence beside you while you mourn the death of a relative? Some guys do this too.

Prostitution isn't love. It isn't a relationship and that should be obvious, but this simple fact seems to cause soooo much confusion and bitterness for the men on this board.

It's sex, and sex is a natural, basic, primal instinct. Paying for it is like paying for almost anything in this world. It's a service. Treat them with respect and don't get attached to them, and there's nothing wrong with it.

[bonobo]

What if you stayed with them for a month ?

And what do these women look like ?

How much do they tend to weigh ? 350 pounds average ? yum yum.

Yes yes, you will say they where hot by this is the internet. You can lie all you want.

Why do you keep denigrating larger women.  Are they somehow unworthy of having a relationship? 

If you are not personally attracted to large women, fine, that is your choice.  But to publicly make fun of them is demeaning and out-of-place here (just as the continual reference to "short, fat, bald" men as somehow being undesirable and beneath contempt, by-the-way.)

And how do you know if anyone is not telling the truth?  Do you have personal knowledge on this?  If not, then I suggest you watch your accusations, especially as they border on breaking TV posting rules.

[bonobo]

Member hat off, mod hat on.

This thread has been allowed to continue, I think,  because most of the posts have been basically civil and within posting regs.

However, some posters are starting to fall into name-calling, accusations, and flaming demographic groups, and all of those are against TV posting regs.

Let's keep it civil, or posters will be warned, posts deleted, and the thread closed.

Thanks.

[sokal]

Some of you lot need to get out more. Especially the ones who think women don't like porn, don't have orgasms and don't do casual flings. Jeez...

You didn't understand my point. Women don't do casual flings purely for the sex like a guy does. I have had casual flings with girls that I figured where too fat or not hot enough for me so I would not date them but just have sex with them. These girls really wanted a boyfriend and they figured if they had sex with me that they might be able to get some commitment. Did they enjoy the sex ? Probably.... was that all they really wanted ? no.

Maybe you just didn't realize it but the women you where sleeping around with didn't do it for the same reasons you did. They are not men.

[leemac]

Some of you lot need to get out more. Especially the ones who think women don't like porn, don't have orgasms and don't do casual flings. Jeez...

You didn't understand my point. Women don't do casual flings purely for the sex like a guy does. I have had casual flings with girls that I figured where too fat or not hot enough for me so I would not date them but just have sex with them. These girls really wanted a boyfriend and they figured if they had sex with me that they might be able to get some commitment. Did they enjoy the sex ? Probably.... was that all they really wanted ? no.

Maybe you just didn't realize it but the women you where sleeping around with didn't do it for the same reasons you did. They are not men.

I can see that your experiences have twisted your view on women to the point that you think they aren't capable of lust. This is both interesting and kind of sad. For your own sake, I hope you find a woman with a high sex drive who doesn't want to screw you in any way except in the sack. And I hope you recognise her for what she is and treat her well. Often, when we find someone really good, our past experiences have corrupted us so much that we don't know what we have found. By the time we realise that they are the right one, we've often lost them.

You probably wont find the woman who will give you eternal happiness in LOS. It's a place for temporary pleasures, instant gratification. The kind of soul satisfying woman that many men here are looking for is better found in other countries.

[bonobo]

Despite my previous warning, a poster decided to ignore it and flame away.  

I now have to recuse myself from posting as a member (which pains me) and just moderate the thread.  Further violations of TV posting regulations will result in more warnings and could shut the thread down.

There have been some interesting posts here, but if we can't remain civil, then there is no other option than to close it.

[t.s]

Some of you lot need to get out more. Especially the ones who think women don't like porn, don't have orgasms and don't do casual flings. Jeez...

You didn't understand my point. Women don't do casual flings purely for the sex like a guy does. I have had casual flings with girls that I figured where too fat or not hot enough for me so I would not date them but just have sex with them. These girls really wanted a boyfriend and they figured if they had sex with me that they might be able to get some commitment. Did they enjoy the sex ? Probably.... was that all they really wanted ? no.

Maybe you just didn't realize it but the women you where sleeping around with didn't do it for the same reasons you did. They are not men.

sokal, you certainly think well of yourself. i pity you that you cannot simply see women as people.

[TAWP]

Some of you lot need to get out more. Especially the ones who think women don't like porn, don't have orgasms and don't do casual flings. Jeez...

Indeed. While I know my gf didn't like it/share into it when an x bf of hers watched porn every night, she is however the one that initiate me to download movies for us to watch now. But then again, I never brought the idea to the table before and didn't take movies as a response/retaliation when she didn't feel like it (which is rarely, but anyway...), so I suppose she knows that I have an ok attitude to the whole thing...

Some guys however are slightly...crazy in how the behave to their girls [oh, the stories I have heard from some girls] so it is no wonder the girls/women don't feel like joining in...

Oh, and for the record, poor boys can get the popular girl , it just doesn't happen often. So some guys will cover their short-comings in social skills and show their wallet instead. Nothing wrong with that, when they know that they are infact paying for their long-term company...

[Valdezugar]

Some of you lot need to get out more. Especially the ones who think women don't like porn, don't have orgasms and don't do casual flings. Jeez...

Very true that . . . . Some guys judge women by their own yard stick; and if they themselves are not a shining star they label all women as the same. Get out and meet different women from all walks of life; no two are the same.

[IanForbes]

(Not aimed at me, but let me take a stab at it.)

First of all, a "10" daughter, or any woman, is based on who she is, not on her appearances. I would not be so shallow as to rate my daughter on her looks.

Second, if my daughter choses to share her intimacy or go after wealthy men, well, that is her choice. Certainly not mine.

And thirdly, as has been pointed out, financial status does not equate to happiness. Another poster pointed out that one daughter married a well-placed guy who ended up getting "placed" in prison, while another married a man much lower on the perceived social scale but who is still happily married to that loving man.

Your fascination with money is just that, yours. I don't judge people on their money, but rather on their actions. I would hope that I would have given any daughter the foundation in life to make good choices, but I would support and love them no matter what choices they did make. (And who is to say my choices would be any better? I am not from a society which selects spouses for my children.)

Just an observation here: a girl who has sex with men for the enjoyment of it is a "slut" as you term it, yet a woman who seeks only wealthy men is "courting." Interesting. So "selling" yourself for money is described with a complimentary term, but sharing mutual enjoyment carries a negative term? Very interesting insight as to your personality, and I think that explains more about your posts than your age or anything else.

Well said, bonobo. Raising children to be responsible, hard working adults is the greatest thing that parents can do for the family... or even the world. It takes a lot of effort and a good deal of knowledge. If the groundwork is done properly then there won't be any worries about the children's future and their furture decisions. I look at my children and the offspring of all my good friends and I know that good parenting is the answer. I see it continued in my grand kids and I couldn't be happier. it is is easy to see the results of the families that didn't put in the effort at the proper time. .

Peoples sex lives are entirely their own business. I don't look down on anyone for an active sex drive or no interest in sex at all.. Calling women "sluts" for having an active sex dirve is just plain wrong. The women I'm with enjoy sex and have orgasms. The ones that don't or can't are just one time wonders. The problem with most prostitutes is they are either worn out from too much action or just bored with the experience. On that topic I have to agree with Sokai and Guesthouse... it's far, far better with couples who are in love with each other... or, at least very attracted to each other.

[MB1]

Thailand remained under this act until 1960, when the United Nations declared the abolition of prostitution. The Thai government answered the UN policy by introducing " The Act to Deter Prostitution," replacing the 1934 law. According to this new act, no one is permitted to perform in the sex trade, either heterosexual or homosexual."

So it seems we have the UN to blame for the illegality of prostitution in Thailand if the article I've posted is correct.

I'm keen to understand the meaning of 'abolish' with regard to the above quote. Does it mean that prostitution ceased to exist for the UN, or otherwise?

I suspect something got mixed up in translation, and the abolition of prostitution quote had something to do with the abolition of slavery.

Edited July 19, 2010 by MB1

[MB1]

If at 26 Sokal you've never expeirienced a no strings roll in the hay then maybe that's why you think that all women are after is money or maybe women sense something about you that they don't like which could be the reason you don't get free no strings attatched sex from them.

From some of your post I have a suspicion that you are very insecure and have very little experience with "free" women, maybe that's why you chose to come to a place like Thailand where women are so easy for sex,but deny to your self that some of the women your with are prostitutes and instead label them "girlfreind" to make yourself feel better inside."Self denial".

Did you see my post where i mentioned, "I wonder if someone who is in denial of being with a prostitute and prefers to call her a girlfreind comes from a God fearing strict religious background and would hate mummy or daddy to know that he's been with prostitutes", maybe that could relate to you.

If the cap fits, wear it.

Yeah yeah, another guy plays the "you cant get them" card. I have had girlfriends and some one night stands (with girls that wanted me to be their boyfriend but I didnt)

So what would you want your daughter to do ? Sleep around like a slut for free at parties or date and court wealthy successful men ?

If you had a 10 out of 10 daughter and she brought home a guy on welfare would you tell her she could do better ?

Nice try Sokal but so far of the mark laughable, null point for effort and minus 10 for knowledge..

Please try harder.

What if you stayed with them for a month ?

And what do these women look like ?

How much do they tend to weigh ? 350 pounds average ? yum yum.

Yes yes, you will say they where hot by this is the internet. You can lie all you want.

If I told you something was white, you'd probably argue it was black, there are some people you can reason with and discuss, then there are some you can't, it's become obvious to myself and other people on this thread that you fall into the "CANT" catergory.

IMO, when you get a true grasp of life and grow up you'll realise how wrong you actually are.

Edited July 19, 2010 by MB1

[mark45y]

Speaking Thai is a big advantage when being in a pay for play bar. One with lower music levels helps too so you can listen to the ladies conversation.

I’ll betcha some of our most prolific posters and opinion blasters don’t speak Thai.

Thai hookers are a horny bunch of ladies. And they develop rather exotic tastes as opposed to the average Thai woman.

I was sitting in a small bar as three ladies were discussing me with the mamma san. Rarely, almost never do I speak any Thai when I go into a bar. So the ladies were unaware that I understood what they were saying. One asked if I performed oral sex and if I was any good at it.

I had to assume she asked because that was what she was in the mood for. It turned out that was the correct assumption.

Another time I listened to a woman wax poetic about the fact that she had never had two men at the same time. And how unfair that was because she had participated in many threesomes with one man and two ladies. Guess what she got for her birthday?

Another time another place the ladies were dissing Japanese porn because the ladies whimper so much and act like it hurts them. They much preferred American or Thai movies.

I have lost track of all the ladies who ask their female co workers about size of a man walking into the bar.

Thai people really think their language too complicated for us, so speak freely as if we were not in the room. A wealth of information is available. You only have to listen.

[TAWP]

I was sitting in a small bar as three ladies were discussing me with the mamma san. Rarely, almost never do I speak any Thai when I go into a bar. So the ladies were unaware that I understood what they were saying. One asked if I performed oral sex and if I was any good at it.

I had to assume she asked because that was what she was in the mood for. It turned out that was the correct assumption.

You went down on a Pay4Play girl?

[GuestHouse]

I'm a Thai speaker, and while I've heard some startling things said in by Thai prostitutes working in bars, most of what I've overheard has been pretty boring repetitive stuff.

But, avoiding discussion on the various sexual services is easy enough, don't talk about threesomes or oral sex, ask about family, parents, children, siblings, life back on the farm. There's lots to learn there and most of it relates to the stark truth that the vast majority of women working as prostitutes in Thai bars have no real alternatives.

This raises a question - When someone cannot choose, they cannot freely give consent.

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If that's not an avenue you want to go down I'd suggest trying your Thai out on Thai women who are not prostitutes (but don't forget to switch off the 'Bar Thai' function).

[mark45y]

I was sitting in a small bar as three ladies were discussing me with the mamma san. Rarely, almost never do I speak any Thai when I go into a bar. So the ladies were unaware that I understood what they were saying. One asked if I performed oral sex and if I was any good at it.

I had to assume she asked because that was what she was in the mood for. It turned out that was the correct assumption.

You went down on a Pay4Play girl?

The first time my feel hit these lovely shores was in 1969. In 1969 I had already lived in four different countries and had relationships with women of more colors than the rainbow, good girls, bad girls and girls that I wasn’t sure were girls. One thing I can tell you for a fact. They all taste about the same even Eskimos and they eat a lot of whale blubber.

I have also had numerous STD’s but never got one in my mouth. I would have saved a lot of shots if I only had oral sex.

I’ll tell you something else. I never caught an STD from a hooker. The last case of chlamydia I caught was from a nurse at a hospital who did my blood and other tests test and called me up in the evening to report it was negative and we didn’t need to wear a condom anymore.

Not that I am advocating not wearing a condom. I think everyone should wear a condom all the time. Good girl or bad girl or if you live in the mountains even with your cousin.

[mark45y]

I'm a Thai speaker, and while I've heard some startling things said in by Thai prostitutes working in bars, most of what I've overheard has been pretty boring repetitive stuff.

But, avoiding discussion on the various sexual services is easy enough, don't talk about threesomes or oral sex, ask about family, parents, children, siblings, life back on the farm. There's lots to learn there and most of it relates to the stark truth that the vast majority of women working as prostitutes in Thai bars have no real alternatives.

This raises a question - When someone cannot choose, they cannot freely give consent.

--------

If that's not an avenue you want to go down I'd suggest trying your Thai out on Thai women who are not prostitutes (but don't forget to switch off the 'Bar Thai' function).

Nice to see you again Guesthouse. Our approach is of course 180 degrees different.

Good to see something’s in life don’t change.

If you go into a bar and ask the bar girl about her family you will get the same sob story she tells everyone. She has been telling that story in Thai bars before Falang bars so she has the Thai version down pat even better than the Falang version.

Falangs have no monopoly on being suckers. Thai guys are suckers too.

I know you won’t or can’t but try going into a bar and sit there and keep your mouth shut. The girls will get drunk. Just listen.

Then you will hear the real story. How much they paid for the boyfriends new motorcycle. How much his new gold chain cost. When was the last time he beat her up. And of course the kinky stories.

Boyfriends and yaba and ya ice. Try the clubs where they make big bucks the stories are even better.

Try getting to the bar early and see who drops her off. If you really want an education follow the BF and see where he goes after he drops her off. Or have some real fun and snap a couple of photos of the BF with another Thai lady. That’s always good for an interesting evening. Leave the photo in the ladies room at the girls bar.

20 years ago I would have agreed with you more. But not in the last 5 years or so. The business has changed.

[Ulysses G.]

This raises a question - When someone cannot choose, they cannot freely give consent.

There are plenty of poor Thai people who choose not to work in the sex industry and makes ends meet with common jobs. As usual, on this subject, your rhetoric has little to do with reality.

[GuestHouse]

I would not dispute that there are plenty of real operators amongst the Prostitutes working in Thai bars - So not 180 degrees apart from you there.

But take a look in most Thai bars and perhaps one woman, maybe as many as half a dozen have 'the goods' to play the game with. The vast majority (and I'm talking about across all bars, not the few that pay the rates to get the top working women) haven't a cat in hells chance of playing the games.

Most have been dumped with a child/or children to care for, few have an education past M3 and all but a few have a host of other family financial commitments.

I'd agree with you, things have changed, 20 years ago I more than once left my brief case/camera/jacket and wallet in a bar, only to have it returned un touched the next day. I don't think that would happen now.

I agree, the whole bar scene has hardened up.

But keep in mind, while it has hardened for you the customer, it has also hardened for the women working in the bars.

[mark45y]

What kind of business did you get into? Did it have anything to do what you liked or did you choose it solely on economic concerns.

There are 2.8 million hookers in Thailand. How many good girls are there? Gotta be a lot more than that. Are all the bar girls victims of poverty? Are all the good girls not poor?

What is the number of women going into prostitution as an only or last resort?

You can take the NGO view but in reality most of the ladies in the trade are there because they want to be. 90% are in Thai only establishments. 5% are out of the country like Singapore. Singapore is for ladies who don’t like to socialize. Wham bang thank you ma’am. I know one lady who worked in Singapore who only lasted a day in Pattaya. She said, “the customers expected me to talk to them!” She went back to Singapore.

Most ladies who go into the bar business like sex. Maybe they don’t after a while but in the beginning they did.

I live in a small town. I have a deal with the bar managers. They call me up when a new lady of appropriate age (mostly middle 20’s) comes to town. They call me up because I speak Thai and because I am not big, fat and scary looking. I can’t deal with all of them but I have not been with anyone who has worked in a bar for more than a few hours in two years.

I have a pretty good idea why they come from the farm, beauty shop, factory, mall, restaurant or whatever.

It is easy to tell if they are truthful and have never worked in a bar. I won’t go into it here but there are at least 10 dead giveaway signs.

[GuestHouse]

This raises a question - When someone cannot choose, they cannot freely give consent.

There are plenty of poor Thai people who choose not to work in the sex industry and makes ends meet with common jobs. As usual, on this subject, your rhetoric has little to do with reality.

And how many wealthy or well educated Thai women are their working as prostitutes?

In the real world the vast majority of women working as prostitutes in Thai bars are from poor backgrounds, have little education, and are very likely to be single mothers raising children they had before they came to work as a prostitute.

[Ulysses G.]

This raises a question - When someone cannot choose, they cannot freely give consent.

There are plenty of poor Thai people who choose not to work in the sex industry and makes ends meet with common jobs. As usual, on this subject, your rhetoric has little to do with reality.

And how many wealthy or well educated Thai women are their working as prostitutes?

In the real world the vast majority of women working as prostitutes in Thai bars are from poor backgrounds, have little education, and are very likely to be single mothers raising children they had before they came to work as a prostitute.

They still have plenty of other choices and there are a fair number of women in universities and middle class jobs who work in the sex trade to make extra money.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[GuestHouse]

Mark45y, are you denying that the vast majority of Thai women working as prostitutes are from poor backgrounds, have no education beyond M3 are are very likely to be single mothers supporting a child or children they had before they turned to prostitution?