Pajero Sport

[fredob43]

Had a go in a Pajero sport today. My question is. Dose anyone know how many have turned over on bend's. I ask this because I thought it felt top heavy and didn't handle well at speed. Had a Toyota Vigo before. And they say in there manual be careful as could turn over. It never felt top heavy to me. But the Pajero did.

[MoonRiverOasis]

PPV's (SUV's) are 300-400KG heavier than their pickup brethren (with most of the added weight at the back), and if comparing to a regular RWD pickup, 50mm to 100mm higher off the ground.

The feeling is just different..

Pajero Sport and Fortuner handle and ride pretty much the same - the Fortuner Sportivo handles a little better (but at the total expense of ride comfort).

The MU-7 and Everest are worse for both handling and comfort however.

[rizla]

I have a Pajero (new), yes i agree trucks and suv`s just dont feel anything like a car.

i`ve driven , vigo`s dmax`s triton`s masda`s and the pajero...the pajero feels the more stable TBMTH...But i`m still looking at stiffening it up a little, and lowering it slightly, i fitted 20 inch lenso`s on it right out the door as to reduce the tire flex, i dont worry about the slightly harsher ride, and believe reducing the 70 series tires down to 50 series tires reduce the sideways flex so therefore more neutral on the bends....

[MoonRiverOasis]

Agreed ^

I had the stock wheels & tires on my Pajero Sport for 9000KM before changing them to 20" Lenso's with 265/50R20 tires - the difference is pretty dramatic - well worth the 27-40K Baht (changeover) IMHO.

[rizla]

Agreed ^

I had the stock wheels & tires on my Pajero Sport for 9000KM before changing them to 20" Lenso's with 265/50R20 tires - the difference is pretty dramatic - well worth the 27-40K Baht (changeover) IMHO.

Thanks for your help before MRO,,,,,,,wheels, do you think i got a reasonable deal on my lenso grande 2`s, i paid 30k plus my wheels and tires, oh and i got yokohama`s on the lenso`s...

[fredob43]

Agreed ^

I had the stock wheels & tires on my Pajero Sport for 9000KM before changing them to 20" Lenso's with 265/50R20 tires - the difference is pretty dramatic - well worth the 27-40K Baht (changeover) IMHO.

Sound's like you have to change the wheels The one I had a go in was standard, ride at low speed was good but I slung it into a bend and I thought the thing was going to turn turtle on me, and I wasn't pushing it that much either. My mate who had only borrowed it nearly had a heart attack. Re earlier post yes the mu7 & the ford drive like tractor's.

Ive got a Sportivo and yes the ride is firm but it stick's to the road like glue. On the plus side other than the corner's I liked the Pajero.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Thanks for your help before MRO,,,,,,,wheels, do you think i got a reasonable deal on my lenso grande 2`s, i paid 30k plus my wheels and tires, oh and i got yokohama`s on the lenso`s...

Assuming you have the brushed alloy finish, that's as good of a deal as you'll ever get - it means you got ~17-18K trade-in on the OEM 16's (avg trade for new 16's is 15-17k, and 18-20k for the 17's). If that's for chrome Grande 2's however, it would be the bargain of the century

[MoonRiverOasis]

Sound's like you have to change the wheels

It all depends on how you drive of course - a lot of drivers never push harder than about 5/10th's', but it sounds like we're all types to push it a bit harder than that, so yes, highly recommended

[rizla]

Thanks for your help before MRO,,,,,,,wheels, do you think i got a reasonable deal on my lenso grande 2`s, i paid 30k plus my wheels and tires, oh and i got yokohama`s on the lenso`s...

Assuming you have the brushed alloy finish, that's as good of a deal as you'll ever get - it means you got ~17-18K trade-in on the OEM 16's (avg trade for new 16's is 15-17k, and 18-20k for the 17's). If that's for chrome Grande 2's however, it would be the bargain of the century

They are the alloy ones not chrome(was worried about the finish not lasting on the chrome), he gave me 24k for the 16 inchers.....Goodyear garage in Surin, and have the smart card warranty with them, oh and the yoko`s and the hub inserts...thrown in too...i thought 30k was a good deal..i`m glad i wasn`t wrong..

[fredob43]

I read a lot about trying to iron out handling probs with trucks and SUV's to handle like a car. Changing the rim size to use a low profile tyre etc, and yes it alters the feel of the motor BUT it does not alter the centre of gravity or alter the weight distribution of the ride. You may feel safer cos it feels to handle better cos you've done away with some of the tyre side wall movement but if your ride does break loose you will have a very big problem.

Get your point. If you look at the Pajero I think it need's to be lower it look's top heavy. On a bend today I thought Id lost it, it just seemed to keep leaning, as luck would have it it was a left hander and I had load's of room to go off to the right. That's why I put the post in about how many have toppled. If you get a chance have a go. Good fun, If you over do the Vigo the back just's let's go but you can control that, It's a shame as it's other than that a good mpv. it dose wobble a bit if a big lorry go's by so must be the suspension. I think a bit light. But that's just my opinion, maybe different shock's might help but it dosen't alter the centre of gravity. Dont think I'll get another chance with the one I had a go in today though. I think my mate's still on the loo.

[rizla]

I read a lot about trying to iron out handling probs with trucks and SUV's to handle like a car. Changing the rim size to use a low profile tyre etc, and yes it alters the feel of the motor BUT it does not alter the centre of gravity or alter the weight distribution of the ride. You may feel safer cos it feels to handle better cos you've done away with some of the tyre side wall movement but if your ride does break loose you will have a very big problem.

Get your point. If you look at the Pajero I think it need's to be lower it look's top heavy. On a bend today I thought Id lost it, it just seemed to keep leaning, as luck would have it it was a left hander and I had load's of room to go off to the right. That's why I put the post in about how many have toppled. If you get a chance have a go. Good fun, If you over do the Vigo the back just's let's go but you can control that, It's a shame as it's other than that a good mpv. it dose wobble a bit if a big lorry go's by so must be the suspension. I think a bit light. But that's just my opinion, maybe different shock's might help but it dosen't alter the centre of gravity. Dont think I'll get another chance with the one I had a go in today though. I think my mate's still on the loo.

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...

Laws of gravity. if you lower a cars suspension, it does lower it`s centre of gravity........just drive it within it`s limits

[MoonRiverOasis]

Well, as noted previously I had the stock 16" wheels and tires on my PJS for the first 9,000KM, of which ~6,000KM was a road-trip around Thailand which encompased pretty much every road, terrain and weather type.

Not once did I or the other 2 drivers feel unnerved, and 2/3 of the drivers were somewhat lead-foots (as evidenced by the 3 speeding fines received) - the other is a dawdler who'll never go above 120KM/hr, so we didn't let her drive much The PJS was already tweaked too - so we were running with ~190HP (up from 140) with acceleration that's > 4s faster than stock.

In fact, over the Lampang mountain range I was surprised (in a good way) by how well the thing handled. I've driven that road literally dozens of times in modiified Yaris (17" wheels with Goodyear Eagle F1's, TEIN electronically adjustable coilovers, Camry throtte body, mandrel exhaust and ECU - a pretty good handling package that's capable of high 14's) and the PJS managed the same average speed (140KM/hr), but with uncomparably better ride quality, and it was fully loaded too (5 people + luggage).

So I'm at bit of a loss to explain what happened with your ride - either there was something wrong with the PJS you drove (incorrect tire pressure, worn tires, faulty shock etc), or there was simply a misjudgment involved?

[MoonRiverOasis]

With 5 up and their luggage, it should stick to the road like glue.

2 quick points:

1) If the vehicle is inherently unstable due to being 'top heavy' as suggested, adding another ~350KG of weight above the axle would only exasperate the issue, so that rules out a basic geometry issue in regards to the OP's experience.

2) There was still another 3,000 KM I travelled on the OEM wheels w/out a full load - if it felt unstable/unnerving during that time, I'd duly note it. I'm not afraid to state the facts be they good, bad, indifferent or even irrelevant, heh

[fredob43]

With 5 up and their luggage, it should stick to the road like glue.

2 quick points:

1) If the vehicle is inherently unstable due to being 'top heavy' as suggested, adding another ~350KG of weight above the axle would only exasperate the issue, so that rules out a basic geometry issue in regards to the OP's experience.

2) There was still another 3,000 KM I travelled on the OEM wheels w/out a full load - if it felt unstable/unnerving during that time, I'd duly note it. I'm not afraid to state the facts be they good, bad, indifferent or even irrelevant, heh

My post was purely tongue in cheek and l think you know we all respect and take note of your input.

Which now draws me to my own conclusion that the OP's ride perhaps had under inflated tyres.

Sorry I cant shed any light on the Pajero ie tyre's ect my mate just came round and said would I like a go. There where only two of us in it. I went round a corner that Ive been round dozen's of time's. Usual thing drive in power out. As no one else seem's to be getting the problem maybe it's me. Ive only been driving 48 year's so a relative newbe. A thought they had just re tared the road. Might have made a difference who know's.

[rizla]

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...I ask again...thankyou

[rizla]

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...I ask again...thankyou

Think the truck or SUV actually toppling over is a bit of a non event. Read lots about if one fools around with stuff it will topple but l think you must be doing something really daft to do it, though l did see a you tube on some guy rolling a new yank truck and l could not figure out how he managed it. All must remember a truck or SUV isn't a rally car and should be shown some respect to what job the vehicle was designed for.

Just looking for the toppled Pajero`s that fredob43 in post 14 ?? talks about..thks

[MoonRiverOasis]

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...I ask again...thankyou

Maybe he's thinking of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZF8N9NItHI

[MoonRiverOasis]

Just came across some posts in the Thai owners forums where a few people have experienced shock problems - perhaps the OP's friend has the same issue?

Video related

[fredob43]

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...I ask again...thankyou

If you read my post I asked if anyone had heard of one going over. If you read my later post's you will see why I asked the question.

[rizla]

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...I ask again...thankyou

If you read my post I asked if anyone had heard of one going over. If you read my later post's you will see why I asked the question.

I think You need to re-read Your own post, " had heard of one going over" cant see that bit...anyhow, who are we to question your superior driving skills.

[katabeachbum]

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...I ask again...thankyou

If you read my post I asked if anyone had heard of one going over. If you read my later post's you will see why I asked the question.

I think You need to re-read Your own post, " had heard of one going over" cant see that bit...anyhow, who are we to question your superior driving skills.

ALL LOS SUV on frame are quite easy to flip. They are more top heavy than their pickup relatives, having longer steel roof and much more glass. Most of the 150-300 kg extra weight is high up, making center of gravity higher than high ride/4x4 pickups.

Larger rims, wider/lower tyres increase traction. Increased traction makes speed when vehicle is about to flip higher. Higher speed makes driver need to respond to attempted flip much faster. At this speed there simply isnt much for driver to do when truck starts flipping.

In general, I d say larger wheels than 17" reduces safety

Lowering suspensing may reduce center of gravity an inch or two, but thats nothing compared to the increased height of gravity due to roof, glass and hatch.

Stabilizer bar would be the most efficient way to increase traction, but reduces off road capability significantly.

Saying all this about LOS SUV, the only ones with acceptable traction are Pajero Sport and Fortuner. 4x4 better than 2wd

[fredob43]

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...I ask again...thankyou

If you read my post I asked if anyone had heard of one going over. If you read my later post's you will see why I asked the question.

I think You need to re-read Your own post, " had heard of one going over" cant see that bit...anyhow, who are we to question your superior driving skills.

Not you as you cant understand english. Ie had. past tense.

[rizla]

Can you point me to the article "where many have toppled" I`d be intrested in reading it...I ask again...thankyou

If you read my post I asked if anyone had heard of one going over. If you read my later post's you will see why I asked the question.

I think You need to re-read Your own post, " had heard of one going over" cant see that bit...anyhow, who are we to question your superior driving skills.

Not you as you cant understand english. Ie had. past tense.

Still Waiting..

[MoonRiverOasis]

ALL LOS SUV on frame are quite easy to flip. They are more top heavy than their pickup relatives, having longer steel roof and much more glass. Most of the 150-300 kg extra weight is high up, making center of gravity higher than high ride/4x4 pickups.

The Pajero Sport has a stationary rollover angle of 45 degrees, while the Fortuner is 42 degrees - which makes the PJS center of gravity 100mm lower than the Fortuner, and about the same as a Hilux 4x4. Of course it's not the only factor in this, but just thought it was worthwhile saying

Larger rims, wider/lower tyres increase traction. Increased traction makes speed when vehicle is about to flip higher. Higher speed makes driver need to respond to attempted flip much faster. At this speed there simply isnt much for driver to do when truck starts flipping.

Agreed on increased traction, but another factor in this is tire sidewall flex. The lower-profile 50 series tires on 20" can effecitively reduce overall sideways roll by several degrees in cornering, making them less prone to "flipping", given the same circumstances. You're right that increased traction can lead to increased conering speeds though

Lowering suspensing may reduce center of gravity an inch or two, but thats nothing compared to the increased height of gravity due to roof, glass and hatch.

Somewhat correct For the vehicle dimensions being discussed (Foruner & PJS are practically identical width/height/length), every 100mm lower will improve stationary roll-over angle by +3 degrees. Actual rollver angle when driving depends on too many factors, so cannot be easily compared. But in simple terms each 1" lower will improve rollover angle by just 0.75 degrees - so you're right - not enough to make a significant real-world difference unless the suspension gets significantly stiffer. That explains why Sportivo rides like a brick - there's just no simple way to improve lateral stability without killing ride quality. Just another useless fact to throw in the conversation

Stabilizer bar would be the most efficient way to increase traction, but reduces off road capability significantly.

Most effecient way to reduce body roll, absolutely, but at the vehicle weights/COG being disucssed the stabilizer bar would have to be monstrous to even achieve a few degrees better rollover angle, which would in turn negatively impact both ride quality and traction. Not as effective in SUV's as it is on lighter/lower vehicles. Lateral traction still comes down to tires and the ability for the suspension to maximize tire-road contact though.

Anyways, it appears the OP's intentions are just to troll, so all of these facts we're presenting are probably just a waste of time..

[MoonRiverOasis]

Oh and some final recommendations

IMHO, the best compromises to improve cornering stability on these vehicles is:

1. Tires with less sidewall flex (i.e. lower profile and/or better quality). 18" is a good compromise on handling/comfort for these vehicles, with 20" being the absolute maximum you'd go to if you care about ride quality. 22" and 24" are for posers who like driving bricks only

2. Progressive-rate shock absorbers (soft at the start of the stroke to maintain comfort, but increasingly stiffer as they compress to reduce overall travel). Not the standard single-tube type (as per TRD), but a good quality canister shock that can achieve the fine-tuned, long-travel progressive rates required for good handling/good riding SUV's.

I would not personally use lower/stiffer springs or stabilizer bars because it's just too much compromise for too little gain.

[rizla]

Agree totaly on both posts MRO, and one other slight plus of the 20 inch grande 2`s is that they have a good amout of offset on them, making the wheelbase wider, which in turn will help......oh and i think keeping a half to full fuel tank helps, given the low down position of the tank. but in saying that i did a 384kilo run the other night, and didn`t feel any handling issues, drive normally, and always remember these aint race cars !!!!!!!

[CDNinKS]

drive normally, and always remember these aint race cars !!!!!!!

Exactly

[Thaihog]

OP, you should check the tyre pressure.

When I picked up my Pajero 3.2 it handled like a pig so I checked the tyre pressure. I discovered that the tyres were over inflated to 50 psi front and back. Apparently this is very common practice in Thailand for pickups.

In common with a few other poster I upgraded to 20" Lenso, now I throw my SUV around as if it's a car. Keep the right foot planted going through the corner, don't ease up on the throttle and you'll be fine.

PJS rules....

[fredob43]

OP, you should check the tyre pressure.

When I picked up my Pajero 3.2 it handled like a pig so I checked the tyre pressure. I discovered that the tyres were over inflated to 50 psi front and back. Apparently this is very common practice in Thailand for pickups.

In common with a few other poster I upgraded to 20" Lenso, now I throw my SUV around as if it's a car. Keep the right foot planted going through the corner, don't ease up on the throttle and you'll be fine.

PJS rules....

Im sure your correct, but it wasn't my car I was just asked if I would like a drive. As I hadn't driven one before I jumped at the chance. The last thing on my mind was to check tyre pressure's. And as stated before the road had just been re tared so if they were over inflated not easy to tell, no bump's. And it did have the standard wheel's. There is obviously a way of driving any car, hadn't had the time to get to grip's with it foible's next time if I get a chance I'll slow down on corner's. You seem to have got thing's sorted with your's enjoy.

[Thaihog]

OP, you should check the tyre pressure.

When I picked up my Pajero 3.2 it handled like a pig so I checked the tyre pressure. I discovered that the tyres were over inflated to 50 psi front and back. Apparently this is very common practice in Thailand for pickups.

In common with a few other poster I upgraded to 20" Lenso, now I throw my SUV around as if it's a car. Keep the right foot planted going through the corner, don't ease up on the throttle and you'll be fine.

PJS rules....

Cool, until it breaks loose then l hope you have done a rally driving course.

No worries, power slides are fun.....