De Bortoli Cask Wine

[wayfarer108]

Wine Spectator and Chowhound have both recommended De Bortoli's 'cask wines, that is boxed wine. I think I have seen it served in restaurants in Bangkok but have not yet seen it in any supermarket.

Has anyone out there come across an outlet for this brand?

http://www.debortoli.com.au/our-wines/our-brands/other-brands/4-litre-premium-casks/listing/view/premium-reserve-winecasks-4lt-cabernet-merlot.html

[wayfarer108]

I found a source for the 2-liter version. Here are some reviews:

http://www.debortoli.com.au/our-wines/our-brands/other-brands/2-litre-reserve-casks/listing/view/premium-reserve-winecasks-2lt-shiraz.html

[negreanu]

Whats the source then?

And the price for 2 Litres?

[wayfarer108]

http://bangkokwinesociety.com/specials/de-bortoli-premium-wine-selection/

[negreanu]

Many thanks.

[tharae]

This is, at best, cooking wine. In OZ cask wine is called goon bags. Because only a goon would.........never mind.

[wayfarer108]

This is, at best, cooking wine. In OZ cask wine is called goon bags. Because only a goon would.........never mind.

You obviously

1) don't live in Thailand

or

2) have much more discretionary income than the average expat in Thailand

Either way: One man's goon bag is another man's evening quaff.

Or maybe you didn't read the reviews

Edited July 31, 2010 by wayfarer108

[wayfarer108]

Many thanks.

You're welcome.

I just found out they don't stock the 2-liter goon bags anymore, just the 4-liter, which are a better deal anyway: 1,290 baht per box with free delivery for minimum of 4 boxes. Wines available are Shiraz Cabernet, Cabernet Merlot, Semillon Sauvignon and Colombard Chardonnay.

[avidflyer]

Friendship Market in south Pattaya stocks it from time to time and when they do it is a bit cheaper than the Bangkok Wine Society.

[xylophone]

This is, at best, cooking wine. In OZ cask wine is called goon bags. Because only a goon would.........never mind.

I think you miss the mark on many points, and I would have to agree with the post by Wayfarer108. Firstly all of the world wine producing countries produce different levels of wine, and much of it is for every day drinking, and Australia is no exception. In fact it would be fair to say that Australia produces some of the best quality everyday drinking wines of any country in the world. Fruit driven, very accessible, soft tannins and made for drinking within a couple of years, just right for the everyday imbiber.

The "bag in the box" process was developed in Australia and has helped the consumer and wine industry tremendously, inasmuch as wine can be drawn from the bag without the remaining wine suffering from the effects of contact with oxygen, thereby making it last longer. Much of what would normally be sold in bottles, is now sold in these boxes, and they represent extremely good value for money.

As someone who has tasted some of the finest wines in the world, and dined in some of the world's best restaurants, I regularly keep a box of wine in the fridge for everyday consumption. I have not tried the De Bortoli wines but will look out for them now -- -- my current everyday drinker is the five litre cask/box of Mont Clair wine from South Africa (a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz) which is excellent value at around 970 baht for 5 litres.

[tharae]

This is, at best, cooking wine. In OZ cask wine is called goon bags. Because only a goon would.........never mind.

I think you miss the mark on many points, and I would have to agree with the post by Wayfarer108. Firstly all of the world wine producing countries produce different levels of wine, and much of it is for every day drinking, and Australia is no exception. In fact it would be fair to say that Australia produces some of the best quality everyday drinking wines of any country in the world. Fruit driven, very accessible, soft tannins and made for drinking within a couple of years, just right for the everyday imbiber.

The "bag in the box" process was developed in Australia and has helped the consumer and wine industry tremendously, inasmuch as wine can be drawn from the bag without the remaining wine suffering from the effects of contact with oxygen, thereby making it last longer. Much of what would normally be sold in bottles, is now sold in these boxes, and they represent extremely good value for money.

As someone who has tasted some of the finest wines in the world, and dined in some of the world's best restaurants, I regularly keep a box of wine in the fridge for everyday consumption. I have not tried the De Bortoli wines but will look out for them now -- -- my current everyday drinker is the five litre cask/box of Mont Clair wine from South Africa (a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz) which is excellent value at around 970 baht for 5 litres.

Austalia certainly does make some of the finest wines in world. However you won't find a quality, or even half decent red in a goon bag.

Great to hear you have found an everyday drinking that suits your palate within your budget. But I'm struggling with why you would keep a shiraz in the fridge. Suggest you try chilling a Pinot Noir or a Zinfandel.

[lomax1000]

Hi Guys,

As you said, most "Cask" wines are of medium quality but I can tell you that The De Bortoli Wine company from Grifith NSW was the first Australian quality wine company to retail a high quality wine in a "cask" and they are normaly 2Litre size..

I have been drinking De Bortoli wines, mostly Cab Sav since 1973, when my good buddy Ian Cummings was first married to Ilona De Bortoli and at that stage he sent many a case of wine on the train from Grifith to Melbourne for his pals to sample. ( they did not have an agent in Victoria at that time )

If you can find it in Thailand, Please try the cask wine from De Bortoli and I am sure you will buy it again.

Lomax

[xylophone]

This is, at best, cooking wine. In OZ cask wine is called goon bags. Because only a goon would.........never mind.

I think you miss the mark on many points, and I would have to agree with the post by Wayfarer108. Firstly all of the world wine producing countries produce different levels of wine, and much of it is for every day drinking, and Australia is no exception. In fact it would be fair to say that Australia produces some of the best quality everyday drinking wines of any country in the world. Fruit driven, very accessible, soft tannins and made for drinking within a couple of years, just right for the everyday imbiber.

The "bag in the box" process was developed in Australia and has helped the consumer and wine industry tremendously, inasmuch as wine can be drawn from the bag without the remaining wine suffering from the effects of contact with oxygen, thereby making it last longer. Much of what would normally be sold in bottles, is now sold in these boxes, and they represent extremely good value for money.

As someone who has tasted some of the finest wines in the world, and dined in some of the world's best restaurants, I regularly keep a box of wine in the fridge for everyday consumption. I have not tried the De Bortoli wines but will look out for them now -- -- my current everyday drinker is the five litre cask/box of Mont Clair wine from South Africa (a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz) which is excellent value at around 970 baht for 5 litres.

Austalia certainly does make some of the finest wines in world. However you won't find a quality, or even half decent red in a goon bag.

Great to hear you have found an everyday drinking that suits your palate within your budget. But I'm struggling with why you would keep a shiraz in the fridge. Suggest you try chilling a Pinot Noir or a Zinfandel.

Hmmmmm.........again many points to consider here. You will find a good everyday drinking wine in a cask/box, which basically was the gist of the first post. Please don't struggle with chilling a red wine in Thailand's climate, because that is the only way to enjoy it when it reaches its peak temperature. Red wines when drunk at high temperatures become a little volatile and spirity, and in no way reflect the true nature of the wine.

So a little chilling prior to consuming will ensure that the wine when emerging from its slightly chilled state will give up many of the aromas and multidimensional tastes when it acquires what is normally considered "room temperature". Therefore you have the benefit of tasting a wine when it reaches its "optimum temperature". After that, the hot and humid temperature in Thailand takes over and it becomes, as I said, a little volatile and spirity.

Also for the record, Shiraz (or Syrah as it is known in the older and primary wine producing countries) has many personalities, depending upon the French explanation of "terroir" or indeed the country in which it is grown. Therefore the Shiraz produced in South Africa for this particular wine is more likely from younger vines and made for everyday drinking so it does not have the "personality" of the Shiraz grown in Australia or for that matter in the Northern Rhone. So being a wine made for easy drinking and everyday consumption, it is quite normal to chill it. Indeed in France the younger and fruitier wines are very often chilled slightly before drinking to enhance the enjoyment of the wine.

Red wines from the Loire, Beaujolais, the southern Rhone and Lanquedoc/Rousillion region can benefit from slight chilling, as can the many everyday drinkers from Italy. And as I said, Thailand does not have a good climate in which to consume quality red wines, so chilling is often a necessity.

Just yesterday I tasted a 2005 Grand Vin De Bordeaux, from St Emilion which retails here for around 1500 baht (however I managed to acquire it for a lot less) so following my usual procedure I chilled it slightly before drinking and for three-quarters of the bottled it was superb, however when it reached the normal Thailand temperature it became a very average wine indeed.

Hopefully that explains a little of what is behind chilling wines in Thailand. Also hopefully it explains that Shiraz/Syrah (and any grape for that matter)can have different tastes depending upon where it is grown and how it is produced. No vintner/producer is going to spend time and money nurturing the wine in vat/barrel/tank if it is a wine that is made for everyday drinking, so those wines are produced to be drunk young and quite often slightly chilled.

[tharae]

This is, at best, cooking wine. In OZ cask wine is called goon bags. Because only a goon would.........never mind.

I think you miss the mark on many points, and I would have to agree with the post by Wayfarer108. Firstly all of the world wine producing countries produce different levels of wine, and much of it is for every day drinking, and Australia is no exception. In fact it would be fair to say that Australia produces some of the best quality everyday drinking wines of any country in the world. Fruit driven, very accessible, soft tannins and made for drinking within a couple of years, just right for the everyday imbiber.

The "bag in the box" process was developed in Australia and has helped the consumer and wine industry tremendously, inasmuch as wine can be drawn from the bag without the remaining wine suffering from the effects of contact with oxygen, thereby making it last longer. Much of what would normally be sold in bottles, is now sold in these boxes, and they represent extremely good value for money.

As someone who has tasted some of the finest wines in the world, and dined in some of the world's best restaurants, I regularly keep a box of wine in the fridge for everyday consumption. I have not tried the De Bortoli wines but will look out for them now -- -- my current everyday drinker is the five litre cask/box of Mont Clair wine from South Africa (a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz) which is excellent value at around 970 baht for 5 litres.

Austalia certainly does make some of the finest wines in world. However you won't find a quality, or even half decent red in a goon bag.

Great to hear you have found an everyday drinking that suits your palate within your budget. But I'm struggling with why you would keep a shiraz in the fridge. Suggest you try chilling a Pinot Noir or a Zinfandel.

Hmmmmm.........again many points to consider here. You will find a good everyday drinking wine in a cask/box, which basically was the gist of the first post. Please don't struggle with chilling a red wine in Thailand's climate, because that is the only way to enjoy it when it reaches its peak temperature. Red wines when drunk at high temperatures become a little volatile and spirity, and in no way reflect the true nature of the wine.

So a little chilling prior to consuming will ensure that the wine when emerging from its slightly chilled state will give up many of the aromas and multidimensional tastes when it acquires what is normally considered "room temperature". Therefore you have the benefit of tasting a wine when it reaches its "optimum temperature". After that, the hot and humid temperature in Thailand takes over and it becomes, as I said, a little volatile and spirity.

Also for the record, Shiraz (or Syrah as it is known in the older and primary wine producing countries) has many personalities, depending upon the French explanation of "terroir" or indeed the country in which it is grown. Therefore the Shiraz produced in South Africa for this particular wine is more likely from younger vines and made for everyday drinking so it does not have the "personality" of the Shiraz grown in Australia or for that matter in the Northern Rhone. So being a wine made for easy drinking and everyday consumption, it is quite normal to chill it. Indeed in France the younger and fruitier wines are very often chilled slightly before drinking to enhance the enjoyment of the wine.

Red wines from the Loire, Beaujolais, the southern Rhone and Lanquedoc/Rousillion region can benefit from slight chilling, as can the many everyday drinkers from Italy. And as I said, Thailand does not have a good climate in which to consume quality red wines, so chilling is often a necessity.

Just yesterday I tasted a 2005 Grand Vin De Bordeaux, from St Emilion which retails here for around 1500 baht (however I managed to acquire it for a lot less) so following my usual procedure I chilled it slightly before drinking and for three-quarters of the bottled it was superb, however when it reached the normal Thailand temperature it became a very average wine indeed.

Hopefully that explains a little of what is behind chilling wines in Thailand. Also hopefully it explains that Shiraz/Syrah (and any grape for that matter)can have different tastes depending upon where it is grown and how it is produced. No vintner/producer is going to spend time and money nurturing the wine in vat/barrel/tank if it is a wine that is made for everyday drinking, so those wines are produced to be drunk young and quite often slightly chilled.

living in Thailand for considerable has not dulled my understanding of how wine should be handled. Any extreme change of temperature of any wine (wine or red) is not going to ehance the end state. It is must better kept at a constant temperatuture. If you must do the unthinkable then chill the glass first.

[xylophone]

Quote: "living in Thailand for considerable has not dulled my understanding of how wine should be handled. Any extreme change of temperature of any wine (wine or red) is not going to ehance the end state. It is must better kept at a constant temperatuture. If you must do the unthinkable then chill the glass first.

It must be stored at a constant temperature, however how you serve it is a different matter -- -- note my comments in my last post as regards many red wines which are chilled prior to serving. So chilling red wine is not "doing the unthinkable" by any means.

As for chilling the glass, a good idea for the first taste/glassful, then what?? Put the glass back in the fridge, stop eating the food, put it back in the oven and wait, or have a whole stack of glasses in the fridge, so when you have guests you could well have 30 plus glasses sitting in the fridge -- -- don't think so. Even then what you are effectively doing is reducing the temperature of the wine, in effect chilling it, which is "doing the unthinkable" in your book.

No, the many wine enthusiasts who live in Thailand would no doubt tell you the same............there is no problem with chilling red wine prior to use and as the wine opens up from its chilled state, the aromas and flavours are revealed.

You seem to forget that we're talking about young red wines, made for everyday drinking, and worldwide many of these are chilled prior to serving. My experiments with other red wines has shown no real detriment to a slight chilling before serving, and this from someone with over 35 years of wine collecting and wine drinking experience. Having said that, I don't think I would do it with a Chateau Margaux, or a Hermitage, however when the air-conditioning system on my last wine cellar went haywire and chilled every wine in the room, then there was no problem with the ten -year-old Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste which I served to friends that evening, still slightly chilled.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Philnz

[SpoliaOpima]

Guys, tharae has appointed himself the top expert in this discussion. So if he wants to drink 30-degree red wine, let him do it. Hey it's room temperature, must be correct!

Red wines are not meant to be served at 'room temperature.' They are meant to be served at cave temperature, around 18 degrees C. Even if your house or apartment is air-conditioned, you're not likely to have the thermostat set that low.

I prefer to keep my wines in a small wine fridge set to that temperature. When not at home then a regular fridge will do, and once poured the wine will reach cave temp in a few minutes here in Thailand (come to think of it, perhaps tharae doesn't live here). I've never seen that process harm the flavour of any wine, whether a boxed wine or a 50-euro bottled burgundy.

I suppose he also lets a half-drunk bottle of wine sit there and solarise, too. Wouldn't want to try a different, better technology that prevented oxidation, would we?

[tharae]

Guys, tharae has appointed himself the top expert in this discussion. So if he wants to drink 30-degree red wine, let him do it. Hey it's room temperature, must be correct!

Red wines are not meant to be served at 'room temperature.' They are meant to be served at cave temperature, around 18 degrees C. Even if your house or apartment is air-conditioned, you're not likely to have the thermostat set that low.

I prefer to keep my wines in a small wine fridge set to that temperature. When not at home then a regular fridge will do, and once poured the wine will reach cave temp in a few minutes here in Thailand (come to think of it, perhaps tharae doesn't live here). I've never seen that process harm the flavour of any wine, whether a boxed wine or a 50-euro bottled burgundy.

I suppose he also lets a half-drunk bottle of wine sit there and solarise, too. Wouldn't want to try a different, better technology that prevented oxidation, would we?

Well it looks like you have displaced me as the self appointed expert. But just so we're all on the same page here. You're correct 18 degrees is a good temperature to store wine (not in the fridge as one blogger wants to do) - importantly it should be stored at a constant temperature. The higher the temperature the quicker it will age. But the temp it is stored and temp it is drunk are two different thigs. Chances are when take your wine out of your wine fridge you're drinking it at higher than 18 degrees, unless you guzzling it. But don't be alarmed, drinking it at room temperature is OK. It just depends on the room you're in.

I'll ingore you're non-adult comment regarding oxidation. You're showing your age.