Is There Room For A Vip Visa Run To Laos?

[Ulysses G.]

Now, after you've been here maybe 3 or 4 years, your rose colored glasses and tin-foil hat might come off, (but immediately put your tin-foil hat back on!! ) . I know people who've been here 15 years who still wear 'rose colored glasses', maybe you're of that 'ilk'.

Do you mention "tin foil hats and rose colored glasses" in every single post? Calm down old fellah.

[jazzbo]

So now the gentleman can avail himself of your wisdom -- I personally am not advising him to do anything -- just that there may be at least some things under the sun that you or I have not considered -- as long as it is HIS time, what the h-ll ...

[Thaivisarunner]

Hi.

I am very grateful for all the advice so far. Siampolee, you indeed have a mastery of words, and your intentions are surely honourable while sharing the benefit of your wisdom.

It seems though that many people commenting here are pigeon-holing me as a naive, fresh off the boat lily white skinned kid, without realising that I am actually marrying into a very affluent Thai family (all Thai citizens) all very mature people who hold quite high positions in their chosen vocations.

Amongst the close friends, allies and extended family who populate their social whirl, are high (and low) ranking police officials, the head of a major Thai bank, an immigration official, probably the most senior person at the department of labour in this district and several other very influential members of society.

Between all these people who I share my current life with on a daily basis, I would say have a very realistic (non-rose tinted glasses, and tin foil hat) view of how this country runs. I am not exactly living in a 4000 a month rented apartment all by myself and drinking Beer Chang with nobody to talk to.

I am very well advised about what i can and cannot do in this country by people who were born, brought up, educated and to all intents and purpose, have a hand in the administration of the kingdom's structural system.

You can believe this or you may wish not to, but what a lot of the members of this forum (and I am talking about the ones who have been here a fair few years too) seem to perceive as palm greasing, corruption etc etc... (although this does occur at the lower levels) to get things and keep things running smoothly as possible. is actually only a small part of it. The main ingredients required for this are connections, influence, and being among the correct mix of people. This is what really makes things run well. Its not bribes and back handers, its asking favours and calling favours, and 'you owe me one', or 'I owe you one', 'you scratch my back, i'll scratch yours'.

This is what makes and ensures things happen.

However, there is one thing that none of these people can help me with, and that is, from a farang's point of view (mainly being the market) Would this service likely be needed?? Because they have never had the need to do visa runs, and neither do I now for that matter. (see what I mean about not what you know, it's who you know). This is why I posted the forum.

Also, I doubt very much this could possibly bankrupt me. If it was to fall flat on its arse, I have 6 websites and this provides me with an unrelenting supply of income. This project failing would never cause my other incomes to cease.

[jazzbo]

I am very well advised about what i can and cannot do in this country by people who were born, brought up, educated and to all intents and purpose, have a hand in the administration of the kingdom's structural system.

So you should maybe be a high-end consultant rather than a bus tour operator.

Edited August 20, 2010 by jazzbo

[Thaivisarunner]

By the way... i did forget to credit Mr Daniels for all his suppositions.

Your use of capital letters in certain keywords in your diatribe confirms to me that you are desperate to make everyone reading think that you actually know what you are talking about, when in fact you know nothing my friend.

Also, I think the other 'real' tour companies that you mention, would be ill advised to try to put me 'out of business' if I so chose to go ahead with this venture. Like i said, influence is everything and s**t rolls both ways. I would welcome it as a challenge.

Quote 'What you do NOT have is a 'connection' at the border to 'facilitate' your crossing outta, and into ANY country.'Unquote.

WRONG!!! In fact, partially correct.... Because i don't personally have a connection there, but (as I mentioned in my last update) I don't need one, I have a connection high up in the administration of immigration. The guys at the border are mere minions....lol. Its already sorted if I need it, its only a phone call.

'A fool and his money'.... Sir, I am no fool, fools usually have no money because they lack the personal fiber and aptitude to make any. I on the other hand have made all my own money, as well as only being here 3 months and never having to think about my visa expiring any more. Not bad for a fool eh? I wonder how long most of the long termers here had to duck, dive, dodge and weave before they felt free of the visa shackles? hmmmm.....

For the sake of visarunner no disrespect to you, but, its so obvious that your comment (threat) was laid out on a foundation of vested interest driven toe treading fear. Relax.. There is a big enough pie for everyone to have a piece, and stop being greedy. Nobody was suggesting i expand into a massive fleet on luxury road liners sewing up every run in and out of the kingdom. I was always taught by my father to leave something for the other guy, and i always do. There are in excess of 30,000 doing the visa run every month, (source... my new immigration connection).

Now the comment on the air charter, I like it. See... there are some people here who actually read my original post, and realised that I was only asking for your views on how to improve on the idea, what do the people having to suffer the visa run want??.. that sort of thing, a collective brain-storming on how to rise above the existing services. Stand out from the crowd. set the trend, raise the bar. Improve on the existing for the good of the end user.

So far the air charter idea is probably the best bit of input. There are people that can afford it, and there are people that would love the speed of it. That is what i call thinking outside the box, and I will ask a few questions about the possibility. If it only appealed to 1% what the hel_l, its 75 a week. Leaving 99% of the pie for everyone else. I'm sure the plane's tyres are not going to get slashed over that.

[jazzbo]

" ... connections, influence, and being among the correct mix of people. This is what really makes things run well."

... and WADR Kuhn OP they can one day be in your corner and -- if it suits their interests -- here in Thailand, as with anywhere else, they can turn against you 'on a dime'.

[ignis]

Maybe a good idea. but there are so many doing this already..

As for 'Private' there are lots from Mini buses to VIP double deckers. From day boarder runs to 2 or 3 day Full Visa Service.. + appear to go to almost every Boarder out of Thailand.

also many Government run VIP First Class air-conditioned Double deck bus 24-seater bus.

Found this to 3 different Boarders: 'New bus with reclining seats to adjust up to 135 degree for your comfort. Washroom, toilet on board plus food and beverage service . International standard seats and safety seat belt with every seat'

Most Government run buses are running 2 or more buses in each direction 7 days a week. + Bangkok to Ranong [burma Ferry] return 1,280 baht.. Bangkok to Mae Sot 1,180 baht return, Bangkok Cambodia lots from 600 baht return.. + many more places..

Just thinking out loud.. Bangkok to Laos.. On different website Visa Mini Bus service with 2x 15 min stops takes 9 hrs, another says Double deck bus 11 hours.. You say stopping every 90 mins for smokers/wc breaks so trip would take ?? hours.. Would people want to spend so long in a bus ? for this sort of time they could fly out of Thailand and get a yearly Visa..

Also for the boarder runners do they want to go and come back at a set time? eg: the Government run Buses you buy a return, the return in the day you get to the bus station so if you like the Boarder Town you can stay a day of 2 if you want.

As for a flight service check the website there are a number of Companies already doing this.. some you fly via Air Asia other's via Nok Air get met at the airport, mini bus to Hotel Full Visa Service etc, again 1 night to 3 nights and many different places.... 1x Company has been advertising such a service for years.. myself don't understand it, as for less money you can fly to KL via Air Asia [if you book many months in advance] and get a Visa from the Thai Embassy

It is down to each person, some would never get a Visa themselves, the idea of someone being there doing it all for them is the only way to go, so then your service would be for these wonderful

[jazzbo]

KL: No French food or Banh Mi

[tropo]

On arrival to the border, a Thai immigration official will board to stamp you out of Thailand (no need to leave the comfort of your air conditioned seat). In many years of exiting Thailand at the Friendship Bridge in Nong Khai, I personally have never seen this occur although I would suspect that such service is available for Diplomats, VIPs, etc.

Thank you for your comment.

Yes, well observed, and you are correct, such a service does exist where certain factors are present such as for security security precautions. However this detail is still pending a decision and is not yet confirmed. The itinerary is a suggested one. This feature is possible though, and i believe can be implemented as an initial trial. Certain criteria were pointed out, such as not having overstays present on board to name but one. Like i said, it is a detail yet to be confirmed, but at the same time, it has not been ruled out as not possible. This if allowed would not be possible for entry, due to the regulations of passport screening and photographing purposes.

These are the features that I would love to have included. I am optimistic, while at the same time realistic that not every feature will be available.

Keep the comments coming.

This is not possible on exit because photos are taken and information is checked and entered on a computer. Did you not notice the Logitech webcam when you exited?

True VIP visa runs to Vientiane would involve an international flight from Suvarnabhumi to Vientiane International airport.

The second "VIP" option would be to fly from Bangkok to Udon Thani and then take the short minivan ride to the border.

Only budget travelers would bus it up from Bangkok. I wouldn't think of taking such a long bus trip when shorts flights are available at reasonable prices. I certainly wouldn't call it "VIP".

The Filipino community in Bangkok and Pattaya are already doing highly organised runs where everything is taken care of including their accommodation and food.

As it stands there are Laos operators who take people through the whole process including transport to and from the border, to the consulate and hotel for as little as 500 baht total.

The only reason that Vientiane is a busy visa run location right now is because they are the only consulate freely issuing double entry tourist visas in this region. There already has been trouble in this area, specifically people given red warning stamps not to return and others being flat out refused further visas. Many nationalities can only get new tourist visas after obtaining new passports and there is no hard and fast rules about how many back-to-back tourist visas they will give people.

It wouldn't make much sense to invest in a business based on a shaky foundations. Thai Immigration and Consulates are notorious for changing rules overnight. Vientiane could just as easily become a graveyard overnight. Penang went through many changes over the past several years and is a prime example of a good consulate going bad. Savannakhet changed about 3 years ago. Phnom Penh is impossible to rely on.

[tropo]

As for a flight service check the website there are a number of Companies already doing this.. some you fly via Air Asia other's via Nok Air get met at the airport, mini bus to Hotel Full Visa Service etc, again 1 night to 3 nights and many different places.... 1x Company has been advertising such a service for years.. myself don't understand it, as for less money you can fly to KL via Air Asia [if you book many months in advance] and get a Visa from the Thai Embassy

It's easy to understand. The Embassy in KL will not issue double entry tourist visas. Going to Vientiane once every 6 months beats flying to KL once every 3 months.

[tropo]

There are in excess of 30,000 doing the visa run every month, (source... my new immigration connection).

Your "new immigration connection" is spinning you a tale. I suggest you look for a more reliable source of info.

It's absolutely impossible for the consulate to handle 30,000 applications per month. Not including Thai and Laos public holidays and assuming the consulate is open for 20 business days per month, that would be a whopping 1,500 applicants per day.

It's commonly believed that they can only handle 500 applications per day and they close early if they reach this number before 12 noon. You only see these sort of crowds on Mondays and days after public holidays. Fridays are always quiet there and other weekdays can be slow. There was a recent report of a very small number of applicants on a midweek visit to the consulate.

My very rough guess would be about 7000 per month. That's assuming 500 on 2 week days. 300 on 2 week days and 200 on Friday. Even this number maybe too high for an average month.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I was at the Vientiane consulate tuesday and it was really uncrowded. I was maybe there for 40 mins. No Africans in attendance and I showed up late and got a number in the 70's. After a few minutes a consulate worker spied my number and switched it to 52. She went around and switched most everyone's lower.

Obviously they have run off the Africans who used to really crowd things. I imagine mondays and post holidays can be busier but this was so easy and casual I really have to conclude there just aren't many people visiting Thailand these days.

[Thaivisarunner]

30,000 Thai visas being processed per month in total.... I was not talking about just from Laos. I was talking about all the neighboring countries combined.

[bodunchar]

Thought of the same thing myself pal, I for one would certainly pay more for a "more comfortable" border run and could think of a few others who would too.

"Think you can, think you cant, either way you are right".

Henry Ford

"What a man think he becomes".

Gandhi

[Tod Daniels]

marrying into a very affluent Thai family (all Thai citizens) all very mature people who hold quite high positions in their chosen vocations.

Amongst the close friends, allies and extended family who populate their social whirl, are high (and low) ranking police officials, the head of a major Thai bank, an immigration official, probably the most senior person at the department of labour in this district and several other very influential members of society.

I am very well advised about what I can and cannot do in this country by people who were born, brought up, educated and to all intents and purpose, have a hand in the administration of the kingdom's structural system.

Oh that we could all share in your obvious good fortune with your influential, well connected, and soon to be "extended thai-family". Sadly, although the posters of T/V would have you believe they all married rich, well-connected, hi-so, white skinned, uni-educated thai-nese (Thai-Chinese) women/families, it is my experience few actually have.

Despite my earlier comments and your obvious denigration of them out of hand ;

I do believe your idea has merit, and if gone about the correct way could generate a positive cash flow. Unfortunately, one only needs to look at ANY of the visa run companys busses, which leave from a plethora of locations around Metropolitan Bangkok every day, to see that their target demographic is more budget minded foreigners who live here visa run to visa run, be they Aussiez, Kiwiz, Amercanz, Britz, EU people or maids and nannies from the Philippines runnin for the border.

As has been pointed out there are some higher end services offered, but again, Ive seen far too few high end visa runners here. That is not the same as saying, they dont exist, or that they wouldn't pay for a premium service; just that they don't use the services Ive seen offered and routinely refer people to.

I think if you put together an all inclusive mixed air/mini-van travel type dealy to Lao PDR, where you flew BKK to UTH (Bangkok to Udon Thani), then put them in mini-vans for the short ride to the border, switch em to a Lao run mini-van company, and on to the hotel, it certainly could work.

Just as if you flew them directly from BKK to VTE (Bangkok to Vientiane); more costly, but far more time efficient at the Lao airport versus crossing at the friendship bridge in terms of visas into Lao.

Another option is to secure the customers visas to Lao BEFORE they depart via the Lao Embassy in Bangkok; there-by streamlining what is always a tough row to hoe, at the border. Its never ever a problem getting outta thailand; its the log-jam getting into Lao which hangs people up at the Friendship bridge entry point. Even current visa run companies have hiccups which take a while to resolve there.

Almost ANY hotel in Vientiane will offer you bulk discounts on X number of rooms, simply by asking. FWIW; as recent as 2 years ago, Air Asia would sell blocks of tickets (if you had more than 20 people) at a reduced rate as well, although that is several year old info and may have changed (given the pricing war Air Asia is currently involved in to dominate the S/E Asian air travel market).

Again, your idea has merit, possibility, yet an unknown number of potential customers in your target demographic. Real demographics are hard to come by here, and even a poll on this forum is unlikely to yield meaningful results.

Thats the lynch-pin, because if you cant sell seats; no matter how great your service is, youre outta business almost before you start.

I agree with you; Thaivisarunner on your observation;

The main ingredients required for this are connections, influence, and being among the correct mix of people.

I have found repeatedly greasing a proverbial squeaky wheel to secure your connection to this or that, is a self defeating process. Inevitably the wheel begins to require more and more grease to function in its capacity. It is much more who you or your thai family knows, than who you happen to be paying to 'know'.

Good luck in your endeavor, until you come up with a base cost of service(s), and then a retail price for said services as in modes of travel, hotels, visas, food, etc, you dont know if itll fly or not. You're out nothing but time and effort figuring it out, and you seem to have both in abundance.

I am sorry my posting penchants run closer to the critical side of the fence than the "sounds like a great idea, go ahead and piss your money away" side. Just the pessimistic realist in me I guess.

Once again, good luck. ..

Edited August 22, 2010 by tod-daniels

[Thaivisarunner]

Thanks Tod.

Great bunch of ideas there. I was already migrating to the air/road idea, and have been doing a bit of number crunching. Still working on this. There are group discounts available, but it would require our package price to have a degree of flex. But this is not too much of a problem. I will try to cut a deal for a sliding scale of % discount per head ratio. (the more heads, the higher the discount). This would stabalise the package fee, which means my margins would do the wobbling.

The Laos visa before boarding would now be a prerequisite. Although there could be a surcharge of say $20 USD for those last minute bookers who haven't had time to get there visa. I am sure I can arrange it with the nice folks in the VOA office at the border to give us a fast-track, if we pass on the surcharge to them. (If you get my drift).

As you mentioned about the fact there are a lot of people who live here on a semi-permanent basis doing visa runs as and when required, and happy to do so. I have thought that maybe a re-booking incentive/loyalty scheme would help consolodate a regular customer base in the future. Something on the lines of, get your 5th run for free. This always encourages repeat business, and works well in any commercial sector.

[jazzbo]

NB to Kuhn T. -- There is a highly under-utilized PDR Lao Consul in Khon Kaen.

[tropo]

As you mentioned about the fact there are a lot of people who live here on a semi-permanent basis doing visa runs as and when required, and happy to do so. I have thought that maybe a re-booking incentive/loyalty scheme would help consolodate a regular customer base in the future. Something on the lines of, get your 5th run for free. This always encourages repeat business, and works well in any commercial sector.

If you're getting double entry tourist visas in Vientiane, a 5th visa would be 2 years after the 1st. I wouldn't rely on the fact that things will be exactly the same at the consulate 2 years down the track. Double entry tourist visas started being (routinely) given out in Vientiane in about December 2007. Since that time there have already been problems with certain people being refused or red-stamped.

IMO the uncertainty of the visa situation in a Consulate is your biggest problem.

[Tod Daniels]

One other option I neglected to mention is traveling to Lao via rail.

The over-nite express train to Nong-Khai which leaves Hua Lamphong could also be a possibility. The thai trains have shared first class 'rooms' (upper - lower bunk), a food car, and really for the price aren't all that bad. It would afford people the ability to get up and walk around (stretch their legs) when ever they want, versus the tour bus or mini-van mode where you stop only every coupla hours.

In Nong Khai you walk across the platform and switch to the train which crosses the 'friendship' bridge into Lao PDR. The Immigrations office on the Lao side is nearly empty all the time, as currently the train service is way under utilized.

Anyway, just a thought, good luck, keep at it. ..

[jazzbo]

The RTRR Train to Nong Khain is a lot of fun ... however 2-4 hours late is not uncommon ...

[SavanVegas]

Dear All,

I would just like to inform you that from May 1st, we have launched a new Thai Visa Run Program to Savannakhet, Lao PDR. Our pricing is currently very competitive as we are looking to attract more expats living in Thailand to visit our Hotel & Entertainment Complex. We also provide VIP service assistance for Visa application and passport collection (in the majority of cases, we can go through the whole process on your behalf). The easiest way to join our program is to arrive at Mukdahan, where our welcome center is located. I won't bore everyone with the full details, as they are available at the following website: www.savanvegas.com/visarun should you be interested. There is also a contact form on that page if you have any questions for me.

Thank you and best regards,

Savan Vegas Hotel & Entertainment Complex.

[hopdafru]

Why don't you use the TV poll feature and ask TV users if they would use such a service and if they would prefer bus or plane. (and where they would leave from, are most of your potential customers from bkk?

Re. plane phongsavan airlines / central airlines has just launched a daily BKK/VTE service, they would be stoked at the idea of having regular groups at an even more discounted price (still more expensive than UTH+Bridge but way less tiring, and you could negotiate going through the diplomatic queue in VTE)

I have a few ideas for riverside accommodation with nice food / service / internet etc pm me if you're interested.

SokDee!

PS: buses from thailand can cross the bridge and move around in Vientiane, no need to change at the border + if the paperwork is done before just hand passports + 30$ + paperwork and they'll stamp on the spot

[somtampet]

Hi.

Actually, I have done the trip. i am also a very well seasoned traveller. many years backpacking and working around the world. I even established a backpackers lodsge and ran it for a long time in Central Africa.. Trust me... i have all the experience required, i know all about pitfalls and rose tinted glasses. I know all about bureaucracy, red tape, official paradoxes .

I am no child, i am a mature experienced and hardened businessman who works off facts, figures, ethics and above all else reality.

If I can pull off business deals in the most corrupt continent in the world and come out unscathed. i can do it in Thailand.

As for the "you will be arrested" quote. Whoever mentioned underhand or illegal dealings?

Everything i do is both legit and totally registered with the Thai authorities. When I undergo a business venture, i do it right, i do it legal and i do it realistically.

I was actually asking for ideas and improvements to work off, i was not asking for my character or capabilities to be sniped at from the sidelines. Nor do i entertain being assumed to be some sort of a 'wet behind the ears' daydreamer.

I entered the Kingdom 12 weeks ago, but I never came here for a 2 week holiday, got zapped in the heart and head by some Thai beauty queen and decided to lay down roots. I have been planning this trip for nigh on a year, and have my fingers in a few pies. so to speak. ... Honestly, i never missed the bus home....lol

fell in love asfter 12 weeksd lol,moved up country too??????

Many many companoes do a visa run which mostly are efficient,i dont think u have any chance unless the small minority want to pay more for a better service

[arthurwait]

Have you factored in the corruption involved in this ? Run any sort of regular transport service in this country and usual suspects expect their cut. From a farang it will be a lot more than a Thai. As someone else said will you get a work permit for this ?

I imagine at the border you will also be expected to pay to operate this service.

Have you planned for some days only getting one or two customers to cover your costs ?

Have you accounted for your drunk driver crashing your van coach as happens on a regular occurance ?

There is a VIP border run service already. It's called an aeroplane.

[nakhonfalung]

Dear All,

I would just like to inform you that from May 1st, we have launched a new Thai Visa Run Program to Savannakhet, Lao PDR. Our pricing is currently very competitive as we are looking to attract more expats living in Thailand to visit our Hotel & Entertainment Complex. We also provide VIP service assistance for Visa application and passport collection (in the majority of cases, we can go through the whole process on your behalf). The easiest way to join our program is to arrive at Mukdahan, where our welcome center is located. I won't bore everyone with the full details, as they are available at the following website: www.savanvegas.com/visarun should you be interested. There is also a contact form on that page if you have any questions for me.

Thank you and best regards,

Savan Vegas Hotel & Entertainment Complex.

Interesting but you have too much competition,this for instance,nice website and seems a lot cheaper than your suggested prices..Surely with all of your contacts and fantastic business experiences,it would be better to come up with a new idea,these visa run services have been going on for years,stick to your affiliate/performance marketing and try to relax a bit and enjoy youre retirement.

[nkg]

No, I don't think there is a real market for your service. Anybody from BKK, Phuket and anywhere else with cheap airlines will just book a 3000 Baht return flight to Udon Thani. From Udon it's maybe 45 minutes to the Friendship Bridge, and another 30-45 minutes to the embassy in Vientiane. So your market is people who don't live in a large population centre - it may take a while for your bus to pick up all its passengers!

Also, wealthier people tend to have retirement visas and/or marriage visas and don't need to travel further than their local immigration office.