Jonway Motorcycles Enters The Thai Market

[visions]

And this thread started off as a simple, well meaning post, letting members know there is another player in the market. Which can only be good for Thai bike buyers. More choice. I for one am very happy to be informed as to what is available.

We all make our own buying decisions on what suits us, of the offerings available, at the time we are buying, be it style, performance, price, quality, suitability, service, warranty etc.....usually a differeing mix of all those for every individual buyer.

If any brand, be it from any country, doesnt meet buyer expectations, for whatever reason, then it will not survive in the market for long, as has been pointed out previously.

Honda currently, and I suspect for some time coming in Thailand, dominates popularity, But history shows all marques experience rise, ,peak, and falls. as do countries, since the age of mankind.

[Richard-BKK]

BMW doesn't make motorcycles in Thailand. Lifan sells in most countries around the world, but that is not the point of this discussion. I believe you when you say you worked “long time ago in Shanghai” and its even so if we go further back in history somebody will have said the same exact words about Japanese motorcycle products, not forget that around 40 years ago Japanese motorcycles where also considered of inferior quality.

Is Jonway a company what we someday well remember as the great fourth wave in motorcycle revolution? Who can tell....

He didn't say he has a BMW motorcycle - BMW cars are made in Thailand.

We've heard about Chinese cars and motorbikes taking the world by storm for years now, maybe even a decade. Only it has not happened. Price was going to be the major distinguishing factor. But all big manufacturers have factories in China and take advantage of the cheap labor cost. A chinese manufacturer therefore doesn't have this as "advantage" and if you take that away a Chinese motor company is just like any other startup motor company.

Add to that the (well deserved) reputation for looking the other way when it comes to quality in their products and you will understand my lack of excitement about any new Chinese entrants into the Thai market. They're only cooking with water, so if they cost half as much as a brand name there is a good reason for that. You get what you pay for!

A discussion of Kawasaki shareholder returns:

If somebody says Kawasaki motorcycles is a thriving business than shareholder returns and company profits numbers are very ON-TOPIC...

[BigBikeBKK]

Trust me that when I say that Kawasaki in Thailand will enter tough times when other well known motorcycle manufacturers start offering big bikes in the same price class.

Would it not be more accurate to say that Kawasaki may experience some competition IF another well known motorcycle manufacturers start offering big bikes in the same price class?

Currently the only "well known" motorcycle manufacturers making big bikes in Thailand are Kawasaki and Triumph. Triumph is obviously not in the same price class as Kawasaki.

The other Japanese manufacturers, Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki only produce small displacement bikes (<250cc) in Thailand. Yamaha sells imported big bikes at inflated prices. Neither Honda or Suzuki sell any big bikes in Thailand (yet). No official word yet from Honda or Suzuki about producing or selling any big bikes in Thailand...

[BigBikeBKK]

BMW doesn't make motorcycles in Thailand. Lifan sells in most countries around the world, but that is not the point of this discussion. I believe you when you say you worked "long time ago in Shanghai" and its even so if we go further back in history somebody will have said the same exact words about Japanese motorcycle products, not forget that around 40 years ago Japanese motorcycles where also considered of inferior quality.

Is Jonway a company what we someday well remember as the great fourth wave in motorcycle revolution? Who can tell....

He didn't say he has a BMW motorcycle - BMW cars are made in Thailand.

We've heard about Chinese cars and motorbikes taking the world by storm for years now, maybe even a decade. Only it has not happened. Price was going to be the major distinguishing factor. But all big manufacturers have factories in China and take advantage of the cheap labor cost. A chinese manufacturer therefore doesn't have this as "advantage" and if you take that away a Chinese motor company is just like any other startup motor company.

Add to that the (well deserved) reputation for looking the other way when it comes to quality in their products and you will understand my lack of excitement about any new Chinese entrants into the Thai market. They're only cooking with water, so if they cost half as much as a brand name there is a good reason for that. You get what you pay for!

A discussion of Kawasaki shareholder returns:

If somebody says Kawasaki motorcycles is a thriving business than shareholder returns and company profits numbers are very ON-TOPIC...

FWIW it's been well documented that most motorcycle manufacturers are doing terribly in the current world economy. Buell is finished. Suzuki isn't selling any 2010's in the US. etc. Kawasaki is doing very well in Thailand but terribly in most other markets. Ride On! Tony

[Richard-BKK]

BMW doesn't make motorcycles in Thailand. Lifan sells in most countries around the world, but that is not the point of this discussion. I believe you when you say you worked "long time ago in Shanghai" and its even so if we go further back in history somebody will have said the same exact words about Japanese motorcycle products, not forget that around 40 years ago Japanese motorcycles where also considered of inferior quality.

Is Jonway a company what we someday well remember as the great fourth wave in motorcycle revolution? Who can tell....

He didn't say he has a BMW motorcycle - BMW cars are made in Thailand.

We've heard about Chinese cars and motorbikes taking the world by storm for years now, maybe even a decade. Only it has not happened. Price was going to be the major distinguishing factor. But all big manufacturers have factories in China and take advantage of the cheap labor cost. A chinese manufacturer therefore doesn't have this as "advantage" and if you take that away a Chinese motor company is just like any other startup motor company.

Add to that the (well deserved) reputation for looking the other way when it comes to quality in their products and you will understand my lack of excitement about any new Chinese entrants into the Thai market. They're only cooking with water, so if they cost half as much as a brand name there is a good reason for that. You get what you pay for!

A discussion of Kawasaki shareholder returns:

If somebody says Kawasaki motorcycles is a thriving business than shareholder returns and company profits numbers are very ON-TOPIC...

FWIW it's been well documented that most motorcycle manufacturers are doing terribly in the current world economy. Buell is finished. Suzuki isn't selling any 2010's in the US. etc. Kawasaki is doing very well in Thailand but terribly in most other markets. Ride On! Tony

Tony about Suzuki you know the difference about not selling and not importing? Suzuki sells motorcycles as normal in the USA http://suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles.aspx with 2011 models dripping in to the dealerships...

And it's true Kawasaki is not doing a bad job, especially if we look to the impact of the economic crisis on the whole motorcycle market, but saying its thriving is a bit over the top... just my idea.

[dave_boo]

Yes it is still coming, very soon. You may not be aware, but the world has just experienced a slight economical hickup. I believe altered the plans of many companies (and people) worldwide

China now produces more vehicals than any other country in the world........I guess there must be a few people like them, think price and quality is ok?? I dont know the percentage but it includes a thriving export market also, not soley sold in China. What do you think of BMW as a brand? They are now made in China, as are many other well known upper market vehicals.. China leads the world in electric scooters and motorbikes, Honda are only now starting to play catch up. Im sure Honda will come out with a great product, when it eventually reaches the market. Afterall, they have many products (Chinese) to evaluate (copy) to find all the good points. We will all be riding electric vehicals Bikes and cars in the not too distant future.

Last night I needed to do some reearch on what electric cars were available, I was staggered by the sheer numbers (hundreds) of different brands available, mostly Chinese (production exceeding 100,000 a year)

Its good that the likes of Richard-BKK has the wider interests that he becomes aware of the news releases and good enough to pass them on. Some of us are interested, those that arent dont need to read them??

Im sure Thai people also had the same reaction to Honda when they first apeared on the market. It wasnt so many years ago that Honda was an unknown brand, Check out the bikes that Honda opened the market with, Im sure you wouldnt buy one of those now either!!! It took Honda (Japananese products) 40 years to lift quality and actually break into the market. China has done that in 5 to 10 years, at least 4 times faster than Japan. Chinese rail and bus systems are now clearly ahead of the market.

Richard-BKK, Yes you are correct in your thoughts, I and Im sure the majority in this forum, wecome info on the "happenings" in the Thai market, We read and make up our own thoughts on what we do with the info. We dont always agree with points of view expressed, (as you have with me) but educated enough to express a differeing point of view without "rubbishing"

As I mentioned in another thread, every new bike in the market is a "winner for the Thai consumer" More compition lifts quality, lowers prices and gives more choice. Let the best products win.

We choose to buy what we consider best fits our needs, whether that be based on style, quality, price, performance, whatever? No one product fits all....thank heavens.

I think that the common reply of "China now makes the most vehicles in the world" can simply be retorted to with this: "How many of those are produced to WESTERN STANDARDS (usually with Western Supervisors) and how many are those utter crap that the poor Chinese masses have to purchase since to get the quality that is expected by the West places the 'good' vehicles outside of their price brackets?"

I appreciate Richard's postings, although as noted earlier few of those products make it to market. I also haven't seen anything other than rusty (on the dealership's lot!) JRD (?) choppers in Samut Prakarn once. The other brands have not been seen. I've seen many more Tiger motorcycles than Chinese, and Tiger's products are apparently priced more expensively and have a more storied past with Thais than Chinese ones.

I also have reservations about Chinese ability to advance to the point of Japanese attention to detail. In fact stating that they'll do it in 10 years (which they've been saying for the last 10 years), smacks of lack of knowledge of culture. There's a huge difference between Japanese and Chinese cultures, as much or more so than between German and Russian. And I know which of those two European markets have the better vehicles. Thai and Chinese cultures aren't too dis-similar; would you categorise Thais as being the most detail oriented people?

China is pretty good about announcing plans (like their rail system that's supposed to go 2x times faster than Japan's bullet system or their double wide above the traffic bus system) and being quite out there or not bringing them to market (rail system would require vaccuum tubes and add a cost of 2-3M USD per KM! and they still haven't even trialed the bus).

Thanks for the support, I never promote one single manufacturer. And if a product from any manufacturer is crap you can be sure that I will make it well-known.

If you ask me, are those Jonway scooters any good? I would need to tell you that I honestly don't know – I wasn't allowed near the scooters (or was that I was not allowed near the girls).

They had a 150cc scooter that looked like something some teenagers would find exciting. Once my old Japanese boss told me Thai people are married to Honda... love Yamaha and huge Suzuki... and somehow Kawasaki tried to fit somewhere in that picture... And currently Kawasaki surrendered and pulled out of the Thai scooter and underbone scooter and motorcycle market. But the only way you can crack the pot is to speak to the imagination of a large group who doesn't found love yet, and if a motorcycle/scooter manufacturer can provide teenagers with a two-wheeler, reasonable in price, which beats all other sporty scooters they have a market.

Ask any average Thai teenager, here is a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance 135, does speeds over 110km/h and if you hold the throttle open it eventually go's up to 130km/h, or here is a Lifan LF250T 250cc which has almost twice the power of the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance and you easily do speeds near 160km/h and none of your friends scooters will accelerate from a traffic light like you can... And then the love for brands like Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki seems not that strong and when you offer a test ride and the kids do a few rounds on a parking lot you have a sell. But often the parents need to finance the sale so the difficult questions come... But how long will it take for big companies like Lifan or Zongshen to answer the questions about service and warranty?

The part I changed to red is the real question....

[Tigersachsclub]

Here something to view....the Gusta Rumba ( aka Jonway Thunder ) vs BMW f650 cs scarver.

Would like to know BMW's view on this and what they intended to (or already did) do?

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[thaicbr]

Here something to view....the Gusta Rumba ( aka Jonway Thunder ) vs BMW f650 cs scarver.

Would like to know BMW's view on this and what they intended to (or already did) do?

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

Both fugly bikes. Maybe BMW copied the Gusto :DThats why they aint saying nuthing.

[Tigersachsclub]

allan i have to say the BMW scarver was never one of my favorites( i have looked a lot of times at this scarver and i am still undecided what to think of it - not sure if it is "nice" or "ugly"...so i call it a "special" look)...but jonway did a good job in copying the design ( obviously not the inside ).

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[HDRIDER]

Hi

Its a BMW car, dont like BMW bikes.

[Tigersachsclub]

Hi

Its a BMW car, dont like BMW bikes.

Ok, nice for you to have a BMW Car....isn't this the Bikers Forum???

[HDRIDER]

Hi

Try to look back in this tread and see why i say car, just show you dont read the tread

[Tigersachsclub]

Hi

Try to look back in this tread and see why i say car, just show you dont read the tread

Actually i read the thread all the way...still bringing in a "bmw Car being thai made" is not relevant as we talk about Bikes and not Cars here.

[Tigersachsclub]

actually you only wrote " BTW i have a BMW,,,,made in Thailand" and thats very misleading...makes people believe that BMW Bikes are made in Thailand since you didn't point out you where talking about Cars in a Bikers forum...

[Richard-BKK]

If I looked back to the first posting, I can only remember that it says that Jonway is going to import 3 scooters.

I haven't had any conformation that the Gusta Rumba 200 is actually a Jonway, Yes they look very very similar to a Jonway YY250. But than yesterday, a Volvo touring bus kissed the back of one of our pickups... The first shock was that the driver didn't run away!!! And I was also 100% sure it was a Volvo – but when police and paperwork and my insurance guy came on his motorcycle I found out that I was hit by a ancient Hino touring bus (it surely looked like the latest Volvo touring bus).

We live in a amazing country where everything doesn't exactly need to be as it seem to be... And in a place like that to say that stuff is bad or good just by looking at a picture... can get you in serious problems...

[Tigersachsclub]

If I looked back to the first posting, I can only remember that it says that Jonway is going to import 3 scooters.

I haven't had any conformation that the Gusta Rumba 200 is actually a Jonway, Yes they look very very similar to a Jonway YY250. But than yesterday, a Volvo touring bus kissed the back of one of our pickups... The first shock was that the driver didn't run away!!! And I was also 100% sure it was a Volvo – but when police and paperwork and my insurance guy came on his motorcycle I found out that I was hit by a ancient Hino touring bus (it surely looked like the latest Volvo touring bus).

We live in a amazing country where everything doesn't exactly need to be as it seem to be... And in a place like that to say that stuff is bad or good just by looking at a picture... can get you in serious problems...

Richard you are right, we don't know for sure if the Gusta Rumba is a Jonway...but if not than "Gusta" copies a Jonway YY250 who copied the design from BMW's f650cs scarver....sounds funny doesn't it?

Edited August 23, 2010 by Tigersachsclub

[Piengrudee]

Are we discussing Jonway here; or are we discussing everything else but Jonway?

[Richard-BKK]

Are we discussing Jonway here; or are we discussing everything else but Jonway?

We try to discuss the introduction of 3 Jonway scooters (80, 125 and 150cc). But as we have no reference point to the quality of Jonway we found a Gusta Rumba 200 motorcycle which we first believed to be a Jonway... But currently we cannot find any clear information that gives the information that the Gusta Rumba 200 is actually a Jonway.

And of course there're also other people who try to talk the quality of Jonway down, without ever seeing, or hearing before of Jonway motorcycles. Personally I need to confess that I have no idea about the build quality...

So feel free to join the discussion....

[BigBikeBKK]

Are we discussing Jonway here; or are we discussing everything else but Jonway?

who cares...

[noahvail]

Consider it a Jonway Cloud

[GarryP]

Richard, thanks for keeping us up to date on news of what is "coming". Some of us are definitely interested.

Saw JRD, Sym, Sachs and another couple of non-mainstream brands at the weekend. All in the same shop too. Also a scooter supposedly built in Vietnam by the same factory producing Vespas. It looked quite like the Vespas of old but half the price or therabouts of a new one. I think the price was 55k for a 125cc.

Ended up putting down a deposit on a Hayate and will pick it up next Saturday.

[HDRIDER]

actually you only wrote " BTW i have a BMW,,,,made in Thailand" and thats very misleading...makes people believe that BMW Bikes are made in Thailand since you didn't point out you where talking about Cars in a Bikers forum...

OMG

you dont get it do you? well i give up then, why did you think i came back and said it was a car, i said i did not care where the bike is made as long they do it to the standard of BMW or whatever, but please read it again, or better not, and i am very sorry i upset you because i mention a car here in bikers forum, i am sure nobody have done it before, and lets move on now

[Richard-BKK]

Yes it is still coming, very soon. You may not be aware, but the world has just experienced a slight economical hickup. I believe altered the plans of many companies (and people) worldwide

China now produces more vehicals than any other country in the world........I guess there must be a few people like them, think price and quality is ok?? I dont know the percentage but it includes a thriving export market also, not soley sold in China. What do you think of BMW as a brand? They are now made in China, as are many other well known upper market vehicals.. China leads the world in electric scooters and motorbikes, Honda are only now starting to play catch up. Im sure Honda will come out with a great product, when it eventually reaches the market. Afterall, they have many products (Chinese) to evaluate (copy) to find all the good points. We will all be riding electric vehicals Bikes and cars in the not too distant future.

Last night I needed to do some reearch on what electric cars were available, I was staggered by the sheer numbers (hundreds) of different brands available, mostly Chinese (production exceeding 100,000 a year)

Its good that the likes of Richard-BKK has the wider interests that he becomes aware of the news releases and good enough to pass them on. Some of us are interested, those that arent dont need to read them??

Im sure Thai people also had the same reaction to Honda when they first apeared on the market. It wasnt so many years ago that Honda was an unknown brand, Check out the bikes that Honda opened the market with, Im sure you wouldnt buy one of those now either!!! It took Honda (Japananese products) 40 years to lift quality and actually break into the market. China has done that in 5 to 10 years, at least 4 times faster than Japan. Chinese rail and bus systems are now clearly ahead of the market.

Richard-BKK, Yes you are correct in your thoughts, I and Im sure the majority in this forum, wecome info on the "happenings" in the Thai market, We read and make up our own thoughts on what we do with the info. We dont always agree with points of view expressed, (as you have with me) but educated enough to express a differeing point of view without "rubbishing"

As I mentioned in another thread, every new bike in the market is a "winner for the Thai consumer" More compition lifts quality, lowers prices and gives more choice. Let the best products win.

We choose to buy what we consider best fits our needs, whether that be based on style, quality, price, performance, whatever? No one product fits all....thank heavens.

I think that the common reply of "China now makes the most vehicles in the world" can simply be retorted to with this: "How many of those are produced to WESTERN STANDARDS (usually with Western Supervisors) and how many are those utter crap that the poor Chinese masses have to purchase since to get the quality that is expected by the West places the 'good' vehicles outside of their price brackets?"

I appreciate Richard's postings, although as noted earlier few of those products make it to market. I also haven't seen anything other than rusty (on the dealership's lot!) JRD (?) choppers in Samut Prakarn once. The other brands have not been seen. I've seen many more Tiger motorcycles than Chinese, and Tiger's products are apparently priced more expensively and have a more storied past with Thais than Chinese ones.

I also have reservations about Chinese ability to advance to the point of Japanese attention to detail. In fact stating that they'll do it in 10 years (which they've been saying for the last 10 years), smacks of lack of knowledge of culture. There's a huge difference between Japanese and Chinese cultures, as much or more so than between German and Russian. And I know which of those two European markets have the better vehicles. Thai and Chinese cultures aren't too dis-similar; would you categorise Thais as being the most detail oriented people?

China is pretty good about announcing plans (like their rail system that's supposed to go 2x times faster than Japan's bullet system or their double wide above the traffic bus system) and being quite out there or not bringing them to market (rail system would require vaccuum tubes and add a cost of 2-3M USD per KM! and they still haven't even trialed the bus).

Thanks for the support, I never promote one single manufacturer. And if a product from any manufacturer is crap you can be sure that I will make it well-known.

If you ask me, are those Jonway scooters any good? I would need to tell you that I honestly don't know – I wasn't allowed near the scooters (or was that I was not allowed near the girls).

They had a 150cc scooter that looked like something some teenagers would find exciting. Once my old Japanese boss told me Thai people are married to Honda... love Yamaha and huge Suzuki... and somehow Kawasaki tried to fit somewhere in that picture... And currently Kawasaki surrendered and pulled out of the Thai scooter and underbone scooter and motorcycle market. But the only way you can crack the pot is to speak to the imagination of a large group who doesn't found love yet, and if a motorcycle/scooter manufacturer can provide teenagers with a two-wheeler, reasonable in price, which beats all other sporty scooters they have a market.

Ask any average Thai teenager, here is a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance 135, does speeds over 110km/h and if you hold the throttle open it eventually go's up to 130km/h, or here is a Lifan LF250T 250cc which has almost twice the power of the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance and you easily do speeds near 160km/h and none of your friends scooters will accelerate from a traffic light like you can... And then the love for brands like Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki seems not that strong and when you offer a test ride and the kids do a few rounds on a parking lot you have a sell. But often the parents need to finance the sale so the difficult questions come... But how long will it take for big companies like Lifan or Zongshen to answer the questions about service and warranty?

The part I changed to red is the real question....

Please enlighten us all with which models I wrote about and did not make it to the market?

[neverdie]

I liked Richards video where just after they introduced the thai manager at 0:17 sec they introduced the Korean manager @ 0:20 secs & I don't know which one he is but gee he was cute

PS: Thanks Richard, I always enjoy your news offerings, keep up the good work.

Edited August 24, 2010 by neverdie

[Richard-BKK]

Without the “pretty” girls present I doubt that so many people stayed that long as they did, it wasn't the most exciting introduction. Lucky there's a video, otherwise I could not remember the colors or the models of the scooters.

Anyway we have 53 replies to the introduction of the 3 Jonway scooters and from all 53 replies not one actually talks about the 3 scooters... So we can conclude that Jonway will find it hard to get any foothold in the Thai motorcycle market.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[neverdie]

Without the “pretty” girls present I doubt that so many people stayed that long as they did, it wasn't the most exciting introduction. Lucky there's a video, otherwise I could not remember the colors or the models of the scooters.

Anyway we have 53 replies to the introduction of the 3 Jonway scooters and from all 53 replies not one actually talks about the 3 scooters... So we can conclude that Jonway will find it hard to get any foothold in the Thai motorcycle market.

Who knows Richard, I cant say the bikes excite me that much and I dont think Jonway will quite have Honda Thailand shaking in their boots at this stage, but who knows what could happen in the next 75-100 years

[dave_boo]

But often the parents need to finance the sale so the difficult questions come... But how long will it take for big companies like Lifan or Zongshen to answer the questions about service and warranty?

The part I changed to red is the real question....

Please enlighten us all with which models I wrote about and did not make it to the market?

There's nothing in either the part that I made red nor my reply indicating that I was accusing you of that....but perhaps my English isn't that good.

[GarryP]

Richard, thanks for keeping us up to date on news of what is "coming". Some of us are definitely interested.

Saw JRD, Sym, Sachs and another couple of non-mainstream brands at the weekend. All in the same shop too. Also a scooter supposedly built in Vietnam by the same factory producing Vespas. It looked quite like the Vespas of old but half the price or therabouts of a new one. I think the price was 55k for a 125cc.

Ended up putting down a deposit on a Hayate and will pick it up next Saturday.

The scooter was 43k, which is a massive difference when compared with a similar looking Vespa.