Changing From Chlorine To Salt Water

[H2oDunc]

Hi I was just wondering what was involved in changing the pool water from chlorine to salt water system ? What are pro's and cons of doing it and approximately how much for a 76 sq metre pool. Cheers in advance people

[WarpSpeed]

First off you're not changing from Cl2 to a salt water system. You're simply changing from applying Cl2 liquid directly in exchange for a machine that produces Cl2 automatically through electrical charges applied to the salt water during the systems operation cycle.

Pros:>Convenience (except when it breaks down unexpectedly)

>Saves a bit of money though not significant as it

takes more electric and maybe longer running cycles of your

pump to produce enough Cl2 for your pool, plus initial

investment is quite steep so IMO you never really recover

costs to install and operate as there is considerable

ongoing maintenance as well as it works in a very hostile

environment internally and externally..

>More buoyancy so less effort to float and swim in..

Cons:>Not at all maintenance free as advertised, requires salt on a regular basis.

>Usually need to increase running cycle to produce enough Cl2

>High maintenance not necessarily the actual pool though that

has it's share but mostly from the equipment itself

especially after it ages.

>Difficult to regulate Cl2 if pool gets out of balance and

reduces PH levels and burns off alkalinity which requires

proper monitoring of other chemicals the average pool tech

here hardly even understands.. Ph and TA for a couple of examples

>If improperly installed or malfunctions to run after the

system shuts down it can literally explode and damage

equipment as it produces hydrogen gas in the process as a

byproduct that is usually mixed harmlessly with water unless

there is no water mixing occurring in which case it can/will

build up (usually in the filter) as it expands it will

displace the water to eventually explode especially

problematic with sand filters most commonly used here.

>Salt water corrodes peripheral accessories that are designed

for minimal amounts of Cl2 and not high amounts of salt

water in combination as well, lights, pumps, valves etc. all

are subject to higher oxidation then designed and doses of corrosives so

suffer shorter operational life and require higher

maintenance..

>Salt gets diluted rather quickly with the amounts of rain

water introduced so needs to be closely monitored..

If I forgot anything I'll update...But maybe that's sufficient...

Edited August 23, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[PoolDoctor]

Yikes! Who would ever install a salt water system with all those cons! My own pool is salt water, and nothing could be easier. I never adjust chlorine, top up the salt once a month or so (for pennies) and throw a vacuum on it 2x per month. That's it. On the flip side, I get crystal clear water all the time (even during thunderstorms), a stable pH, no need to buy and store chlorine, my kids are swimming in safe saline, and I never have to worry about acidic chlorine destroying my grout. Salt water is silky smooth, and no harsh chlorine odor after.

There is a statistic that 80% of pools in Australia are now salt water pools. Pumps and pool fittings are now 100% plastic, so there is no corrosion risk. Yes, salt water systems do require a bit more operating knowledge, that is one of the troubles with Thailand - technicians are lazy to understand new technology. I agree with you though, the purchase cost is often not off set by reduced operating costs - we make it a point NOT to sell a salt system on this virtue. It doesn't hold, except in the case of a leaking pool that is losing chemicals (salt is 10x cheaper than chlorine). The cells also usually need replacement every 4 years or so, and Thailand's electrical supply surges can sometimes knock out a sensitive control panel if not wired properly to a breaker / overload.

Gil

[WarpSpeed]

Well with all do respect I'm sure you know Australia is an altogether different climate then Thailand where the crapiest and cheapest valves and Chinese equipment are often used with the lowest grade metals available and you have a distinct advantage in maintenance being in the business not to mention a biased opinion due to the cash cow they represent.

But what you failed to address is the legitimacy of all of the cons posted or enhance more pros that I may have overlooked as I already mentioned convenience.. The others you agreed with so it seems there is not a host of disagreement here.

Lets start with the realistic possibility of exploding systems.. From an insiders perspective it is a common problem often overlooked or misdiagnosed here..

Harsh Cl2 smell comes from an imbalanced chemistry I.E. too high or low Ph and TA out of balance with Cl2 levels not from the Cl2 itself.

You can safely run an 8.0PPM Cl2 level and it will still be as silky smooth as any salt pool with no smell or swimmer discomfort if properly balanced. Conversely the opposite is also true that a low free active Cl2 pool that is producing high chloramines and an out of balance Ph and TA will also produce a Cl2 smell and discomfort in spite of low Cl2 levels.

It is also misleading to try to differentiate between salt and Cl2 as they are both Cl2 pools just with different delivery/production systems..

Let's be clear here, I see a use for salt systems just have to be realistic about the applications and what to expect which is what he inquired about. If he can afford the maintenance and goes in with open eyes not thinking it's the magic bullet to all his pool problems or maintenance ills then he's ok, but there are significant draw backs to be considered..

Here it also difficult to get consistent liquid Cl2 strengths so from that aspect salt systems have thier advantages as well..

The reduced need for liquid acid to balance is also a benefit but again these are not eliminated entirely and complacency can be a problem with proper monitoring..

Edited August 23, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[steelepulse]

I just got a couple of quotes to convert my system from fresh to salt, and they varied from low 40's to low 60's. I decided to pass on it for now.

[WarpSpeed]

"You can safely run an 8.0PPM Cl2 level and it will still be as silky smooth as any salt pool with no smell or swimmer discomfort if properly balanced. Conversely the opposite is also true that a low free active Cl2 pool that is producing high chloramines and an out of balance Ph and TA will also produce a Cl2 smell and discomfort in spite of low Cl2 levels."

I missed the editing window but wanted to add to this that just because it's a salt system does not eliminate the possibility of these circumstances if the pool gets out of balance..

[monty]

If the proper sized chlorinator is used, the pumps should not run any longer then with a chlorine pool.

Many people underestimate the effect Thailand's tropical climate has on chlorine levels, so size the chlorinator too small (while it would be perfect in milder climates though).

One advantage I see is that the chlorine level stays more stable. In many chlorine pools here in Thailand, the owners just get pool service in 2 or 3 times a week, and that'll be how many times a week chlorine will be added. Resulting in variations from very high levels (just after adding), to very low (just before the pool service is due).

No such thing with a saltwater pool, as low amounts of chlorine are generated twice a day (usually).

Salt indeed has to be added, but normally only in the rainy season. In the dry season the only way to lose salt is through back-washing and spillage. Checking the indicator on your chlorinator once a week should be more then adequate to check salt level.

On the PH, the first few months of a new pool you have to monitor closely. After that they seem to get pretty stable.

Modern chlorinators, if properly installed, should have zero explosion risk. They should have good quality flow detectors installed, shutting of the cell if no flow is present.

On my chlorinator it is in one go also a build in protection to keep the pumps from running dry.

So, I do think the pro's outweigh the cons!

[WarpSpeed]

Agreed with most, especially the part about inconsistent service but TIT as for the comment about "if properly installed" is always the disclaimer to be taken seriously as even something as critical as electrical is not properly installed here on a regular basis...

As for 2 or 3 times per week is more then enough if the pool has been properly stabilized with Cyanuric acid it will hold just fine and requires only small amounts of Cl2 to keep it stable so no more noticeable then what is being produced by the salt machine

Edited August 23, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Chaichara]

I've never read such a load of negative bullshit about salt water chlorination in all my pool experience. The comments obviously come from people who have been either horrendously overcharged or over quoted (very common practices in the pool business in Thailand, especially in poolshops in areas of high farang population), or been sold cheap, Chinese crap at ridiculously high (or low) prices. Decent machines, made in Australia by several leading brands start at around 40K baht for a 70 m3 pool and include a fully microprocessor operated pool management system, maintain an extremely accurate dosage, and come with at least a three year guarantee. Some of the machines even come with an automatic acid dispenser. Problems with pool chlorination mostly occur due to neglect of maintaining the pH balance , the thing that most people ignore, but which is the most critical part of the water chemistry. Don't hesitate to PM me for a list of the distributors of reputable brands, at reasonable prices, and where you can get your salt for half the prices often charged. A saltwater chlorination system can be installed in minutes without hardly any technical knowledge. However, the guarantee might in some cases only be effective if installed by an accredited pool professional.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Chaichara

[Macx]

My neighbor here in the states has a small above-ground pool for his kids. He bought and assembled a simple-looking saltwater chlorination system and a small pump from Amazon for a few hundred dollars. He is happy with it and has no problem for 3 years now.

[AnnyLing]

To WarpSpeed,

no matter how hard you try by presenting facts the *salt*water eggsburts will keep up their good job in spreading their ignorance.

[WarpSpeed]

I've never read such a load of negative bullshit about salt water chlorination in all my pool experience. The comments obviously come from people who have been either horrendously overcharged or over quoted (very common practices in the pool business in Thailand, especially in poolshops in areas of high farang population), or been sold cheap, Chinese crap at ridiculously high (or low) prices. Decent machines, made in Australia by several leading brands start at around 40K baht for a 70 m3 pool and include a fully microprocessor operated pool management system, maintain an extremely accurate dosage, and come with at least a three year guarantee. Some of the machines even come with an automatic acid dispenser. Problems with pool chlorination mostly occur due to neglect of maintaining the pH balance , the thing that most people ignore, but which is the most critical part of the water chemistry. Don't hesitate to PM me for a list of the distributors of reputable brands, at reasonable prices, and where you can get your salt for half the prices often charged. A saltwater chlorination system can be installed in minutes without hardly any technical knowledge. However, the guarantee might in some cases only be effective if installed by an accredited pool professional.

Hardly any technical knowledge? Now who's full of it?? That's how most here are installed anyway so not surprising to hear nonsense like that posted...

[WarpSpeed]

^^Thanks Anny but I keep trying anyway.. :jap: Like I said I'm not against them entirely they certainly have their uses and applications but not in every instance so one has to just take into account their own personal situation and justification which they can't do without all the facts presented which is what the OP questioned..

Edited August 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[jazzbo]

My 30 metre salt-water lap pool -- you guys can keep your 8-10m duck ponds... 50 lengths is 1500 meters which I do these days in about 40 minutes -- BTW this shot was taken about 11 AM on a week-day... nights / weekends, forget it.

... of course, 8-10m with an Endless Pool system is another story.

Edited August 24, 2010 by jazzbo