Natural Childbirth?

[ExpatJ]

curious to see so many women dead set on having a natural childbirth i.e. no painkillers/epidural. Why bother when in this day and age we have the- perfectly safe- medicine to deal with the pain? Always makes me chuckle as it comes across as female machismo to me..

"Im having a tooth extracted but no pain killer for me! i want to do it how my mother and her mother and hers experienced it! I want to be in touch with nature and the experience..etc etc

I'm not flaming- just curious to know why:)?

ps. my wife had an epidural and now thinks as i do:)

[Carry]

It has nothing to do with machismo atleast not for me!

I prefer to be at home during birth if I can...since the only hospital near is a teaching hospital [a good one at that...] and its gonna be my first baby i.e. things may take long, I rather be at home in my own environment than in a hospital with strangers walking in and out all the time...

Besides that, yes in this age and time u can even have a c section when there's no need for it at all but painkilling and a c section come with risks, that obviously I am willing to take too, if it comes to the health of my child but I will not go to a hospital and get on the painmeds just because I think I cant handle it...it might be a cliche but millions of women have done it and the pain is not random pain it comes with having a kid.

Im not saying women should be in a lot of unnecasarry pain but how unnecaserry is the pain that comes naturally with giving birth?

[BasementCat]

The bliss of anesthesia comes with certain risks, and they are more pronounced during labour and delivery. Speaking of epidural, the potential risks include drop of mother's blood pressure, possible unintentional spinal block, increase in the chances of a cesarean delivery by two or three times, slowing labour, mother's internal temperature increase. As for the baby in utero, what you are very likely to get is abnormal heart rate patterns, increased likelihood of isolation due to mother's "epidural fever" and decreased infant responsiveness after birth.

I am happy your baby and wife did not have these complications ExpatJ. However, the risks are not non-existent and therefore I would try to escape them altogether if possible.

[Carry]

I just came back from a doc appointment and we went over 'the birthplan'again....she explained again risks that come with an epidural esp, besides the fact that u have to stay a night for observation at least, the risk of the fever with the infant that basementcat mentioned is pretty high and means that they will put your baby at the neonatal care...I wouldnt risk that in a million years just because I dont want to be in pain!!

[ExpatJ]

It has nothing to do with machismo atleast not for me!

I prefer to be at home during birth if I can...since the only hospital near is a teaching hospital [a good one at that...] and its gonna be my first baby i.e. things may take long, I rather be at home in my own environment than in a hospital with strangers walking in and out all the time...

Besides that, yes in this age and time u can even have a c section when there's no need for it at all but painkilling and a c section come with risks, that obviously I am willing to take too, if it comes to the health of my child but I will not go to a hospital and get on the painmeds just because I think I cant handle it...it might be a cliche but millions of women have done it and the pain is not random pain it comes with having a kid.

Im not saying women should be in a lot of unnecasarry pain but how unnecaserry is the pain that comes naturally with giving birth?

Yes, i see. we did have one complication related to the cord being wrapped around babies neck- one thing led to another- and finally they called a team of doctors and nurses from elswhere in the hospital were needed for some emergency treatment (everything turned out fine after the treatment). In this regard, i would very much warn against having a baby at home where the level of emergency support would be much less. I have to say that home birth is more of a benefit to the mothers own feelings than it is to the babies health potentially- sure the vast majority of births will be fine, but if something goes wrong (as it did to us) we would have found it difficult to forgive ourselves if we'd choosen a home birth (which we did consider for our first baby)- just a friendly heads up!

[Carry]

Thanks ExpatJ, I appreciate, don't know where u are from but where Im from its completly normal to have your baby at home, in case of an emergency I would be in a hospital within 10 minutes, Im sure that if there's any risk of anything going wrong [the can make ecg films of the baby's heartrate at home these days and even have a mobile ultrasound machine...] the midwife wont second guess and I will be in the hospital very fast...btw having a child naturally in a hospital might take them as long as at home to discover if and what is wrong with the baby before somethings done...

[IMA_FARANG]

Natural birth,

True story about my brother, his wife, and their first baby. (You women will enjoy this.) They elected to have it in the hospital, natural birth (her choice) with my brother by her side holding her hand. Now my brother is a hunter, has been known to kill, skin, and cut up a Whitetail Deer (for food). So he assumed he would have no problems being with his wife during the birth. Well, when the baby began to come, my big brave brother fainted. The female nurses had seen it before, apparently, they had a male orderly watching him. They caught him as he passed out and lowered him into a nearby chair. So while the poor frail woman had the baby, my big brave brother was unconcious. His wife has never let him live it down since. For medical reasons, she had to have the 2nd one by C section, so it wasn't repeated.

Natural birth, huh.

[mike123ca]

Natural birth,

True story about my brother, his wife, and their first baby. (You women will enjoy this.) They elected to have it in the hospital, natural birth (her choice) with my brother by her side holding her hand. Now my brother is a hunter, has been known to kill, skin, and cut up a Whitetail Deer (for food). So he assumed he would have no problems being with his wife during the birth. Well, when the baby began to come, my big brave brother fainted. The female nurses had seen it before, apparently, they had a male orderly watching him. They caught him as he passed out and lowered him into a nearby chair. So while the poor frail woman had the baby, my big brave brother was unconcious. His wife has never let him live it down since. For medical reasons, she had to have the 2nd one by C section, so it wasn't repeated.

Natural birth, huh.

[mike123ca]

Natural birth,

True story about my brother, his wife, and their first baby. (You women will enjoy this.) They elected to have it in the hospital, natural birth (her choice) with my brother by her side holding her hand. Now my brother is a hunter, has been known to kill, skin, and cut up a Whitetail Deer (for food). So he assumed he would have no problems being with his wife during the birth. Well, when the baby began to come, my big brave brother fainted. The female nurses had seen it before, apparently, they had a male orderly watching him. They caught him as he passed out and lowered him into a nearby chair. So while the poor frail woman had the baby, my big brave brother was unconcious. His wife has never let him live it down since. For medical reasons, she had to have the 2nd one by C section, so it wasn't repeated.

Natural birth, huh.

My wife never mentioned anything about me having to be in the delivery room. At the hospital all the Thai fathers and I had baskets with supplies . The Thai men would wait in the waiting room until the wife was rolled out of the birthing room with their baby. In a way, I was glad it was this way, I'm pretty sure I would have have fainted at the sight of the baby being born. Both our babies were c section, so the wife didn't get to see anything. So far both children have been very healthy.

My question is " Is it Thai custom for the father's not to be at the child's delivery?"

[mkawish]

Natural birth,

My question is " Is it Thai custom for the father's not to be at the child's delivery?"

No, it surely is not a Thai custom.

I would venture to guess that it depends very much on the geographical location and the educational level of the father. In our group, we were there to lend support to our poor slavish wives who were about to selflessly sacrificing themselves to make our family--more perfect.

May we all love our wives and children even more lavishly.

[Boo]

I gave birth in UK & asked my thai husband if he wanted to be there. He did & ended up being the first to touch our son as he felt the top of his head as he crowned, then supported his body as he came out & cut the cord. He was there for the whole 16 hr labour. He did tell me that many hospitals in Thailand that often the doctor found it easier for the father not to be present & that majorit thai wont question the doctor. Which is a bit sad imo as the 2nd thing I remember so clearly (the first, seeing my amazing new son) was the look of pure joy & amazement on my husbands face & the tears in his eyes.

[imjustagirl]

There's an interesting documentary out recently called 'the business of being born'. It is filmed in the USA and looks at a lot of the reasons not to have a c section and that they are being forced onto women by hospitals in the states. Interesting stuff, especially that the USA has the highest c section rate with the highest mother infant mortality rate for a western country....it covers the epidural causing womens labor to slow down, which results in the mothers being given drugs to speed up labor which results in more pain... a vicious circle - ultimately leaving the baby in distress and a mother being rushed for an unplanned c section. That and the too posh to push 'scheduled' births becoming more and more popular to fit the child birth around a busy daily schedule. Labor is big business ( i think $40k hospital charges was mentioned at one point!!!) and hospitals want you in and out quickly so a c section is their number one choice i guess. A lot of women gave the opinion that they felt they had been cheated by a forced c section....

I wonder as westerners will be going private in Thailand if the hospital is somewhat biased to get the baby out as quickly as possible. I'm not giving judgment on either choice as it seems a c section is absolutely right for some cases the end of the film is prime example of such a case, but they did have many good points to the pro's of natural childbirth such as feeling in control, in a home environment and better bonding with the child due to the release of oxytocin immediately after birth. Fascinating documentary and quite moving!

[mkawish]

There's an interesting documentary out recently called 'the business of being born'. It is filmed in the USA and looks at a lot of the reasons not to have a c section and that they are being forced onto women by hospitals in the states. Interesting stuff, especially that the USA has the highest c section rate with the highest mother infant mortality rate for a western country....it covers the epidural causing womens labor to slow down, which results in the mothers being given drugs to speed up labor which results in more pain... a vicious circle - ultimately leaving the baby in distress and a mother being rushed for an unplanned c section. That and the too posh to push 'scheduled' births becoming more and more popular to fit the child birth around a busy daily schedule. Labor is big business ( i think $40k hospital charges was mentioned at one point!!!) and hospitals want you in and out quickly so a c section is their number one choice i guess. A lot of women gave the opinion that they felt they had been cheated by a forced c section....

I wonder as westerners will be going private in Thailand if the hospital is somewhat biased to get the baby out as quickly as possible. I'm not giving judgment on either choice as it seems a c section is absolutely right for some cases the end of the film is prime example of such a case, but they did have many good points to the pro's of natural childbirth such as feeling in control, in a home environment and better bonding with the child due to the release of oxytocin immediately after birth. Fascinating documentary and quite moving!

So glad that there was such a study to backup my personal opinions and advices given to so many relatives and friends that their first choice in child birth should definitely NOT be a c sect as most thai Obgyn would recommend to the anxious mothers to be.

Imjustagir, do you happen to still remember that primary source?

Edited August 30, 2010 by mkawish

[kannon99]

It's not just one study. There are multiple studies out there that show Cesarean section to be dangerous and not to be overused. Of course they are needed in some cases. The World Health Organization says that a hospitals/providers C-section rate be between 10 and 15%. In the USA, at least 1 in 3 women is getting this major abdominal surgery. I have worked in Thai hospitals and heard all kinds of crazy "excuses" for giving a woman a C-section. Do you know the rates of the top hospitals in Bangkok? Try 90% C-section rates at Bumrungrad and BNH. They will tell you, OH it's not farang women, it's the Thai women wanting their auspicious day. Hmm, well, 90% of the women birthing there are not Thai. I have heard outright lies from OBs to get a women to consent to an unnecessary C-section.

Edited August 31, 2010 by kannon99

[imjustagirl]

There's an interesting documentary out recently called 'the business of being born'. It is filmed in the USA and looks at a lot of the reasons not to have a c section and that they are being forced onto women by hospitals in the states. Interesting stuff, especially that the USA has the highest c section rate with the highest mother infant mortality rate for a western country....it covers the epidural causing womens labor to slow down, which results in the mothers being given drugs to speed up labor which results in more pain... a vicious circle - ultimately leaving the baby in distress and a mother being rushed for an unplanned c section. That and the too posh to push 'scheduled' births becoming more and more popular to fit the child birth around a busy daily schedule. Labor is big business ( i think $40k hospital charges was mentioned at one point!!!) and hospitals want you in and out quickly so a c section is their number one choice i guess. A lot of women gave the opinion that they felt they had been cheated by a forced c section....

I wonder as westerners will be going private in Thailand if the hospital is somewhat biased to get the baby out as quickly as possible. I'm not giving judgment on either choice as it seems a c section is absolutely right for some cases the end of the film is prime example of such a case, but they did have many good points to the pro's of natural childbirth such as feeling in control, in a home environment and better bonding with the child due to the release of oxytocin immediately after birth. Fascinating documentary and quite moving!

So glad that there was such a study to backup my personal opinions and advices given to so many relatives and friends that their first choice in child birth should definitely NOT be a c sect as most thai Obgyn would recommend to the anxious mothers to be.

Imjustagir, do you happen to still remember that primary source?

This was all in a documentary recently out called 'The business of being born' The doc definately was pro home birth but the hospital and doc interviews were fascinating! Most docs had never seen a natural child birth!! and they were all terrified by the idea of it. I will pm you a link to the movie online