Farangs Exploiting Farangs!

[Harmonica]

Well I'm sure you are astute enough to prove anything via stats and figure , but it still amuses me as to why you seem to have it in for us Brits?

I will get to the "Brits" issue shortly -- the points you raised dovetail right into that point of view.

W.r.t the economy, kindly note that even though Britain has a substantial one, it is not even the strongest in Europe. Germany is the largest economy in Europe and then, counting Asia, Japan beats the pants of both!

One cannot even fathom a comparison between America and Britain economywise. It would be foolish to even go in that direction for it would be like comparing a frog's p*ssy to the Panama canal.

But more to our point, it is astoundingly clear that pretty much on a daily basis, when the european markets open up, they just tread water for hours and hours just waiting for US markets to open so that they can see "how/where is the boss going?" ..... that's just the way it is and it will be this way until China comes along and kicks all our asses -- but it won't happen in our lifetime.

England has a limited mind of her own economywise and further proof comes via a look at both stockmarkets for the last 50 years.

Done!

On to the Brit issue.

And what has this got to do with the subject of farangs exploiting the farangs ?

It seems as though you yanks only know about one particular subject, why do you guys always manage to sway over to how great your country is when in actual fact its a country run and built on illusions !

Stick to the subject !!

PS – Michael Moore is a hero !!!

I saw Michael Moore's film and thought it was terrific. Loved it and especially admire the effort he made.

Just for the record, I did not ever agree with either of the recent wars and still feel the same way.

End of topic digression! Sorry!

[chonabot]

Hmmm you seem to have a fascination with War and military might.

We had a tiff with the Argies a few decades back , I recall the US not helping us , yet we are expected to pitch in whenever you lot need some proper expertise.

SAS ring any bells?

As for negativity , just look at the defiance our people are showing in the aftermath of last weeks happenings. We won't be sulking about it for decades unlike some people have done in the past.

Lets face it , your country , for whatever reasons, is the least popular on this planet, unfortunately the UK are your most important allies, you need us as much as vice versa, all of Europe keep trying to persuade UK to sever ties with you guys.

without Europe the USA would become a very lonely place.

But come on , to say the French would whip us is just a step to far.

You are a very funny guy!

Edited July 14, 2005 by chonabot

[chuchok]

Funny how you can make such generalisation(sic), yet have never travelled there my good friend Harmy?

[Harmonica]

An example of our poor country is our Health system. Shown by it's efficiency in the terrible bombings. The world's best.

What happens in the US if you don't have suitable insurance?

Can you compare in this , very basic yet important level ?

I am an IT contractor and have a 10 year contract with the worlds largest Mobile Phone Network/ Supplier.

It's a British Company.

Who is it ?

Offtopic response continues out of necessity -- much obliged for your patience!

The Health system in America is atrocious. You have no argument from me, chonabot.

I have experienced the setup in Sweden and found it astonishingly good. I have heard about the UK's setup and even without further examination readily agree that it surpasses that of America in a heartbeat.

[Harmonica]

Funny how you can make such generalisation(sic), yet have never travelled there my good friend Harmy?

I have been to the UK many times but have never lived there. I lived in both Sweden and Germany for a few years so it was generally close enough to travel to England.

Got to say, despite what I've already said, Britain has some of the most stunning countryside I've ever seen and it certainly added to my pleasure when a tow truck in central London just let me retrieve my car without paying the exorbitant impound charges.

[chuchok]

Funny how you can make such generalisation(sic), yet have never travelled there my good friend Harmy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have been to the UK many times but have never lived there. I lived in both Sweden and Germany for a few years so it was generally close enough to travel to England.

Got to say, despite what I've already said, Britain has some of the most stunning countryside I've ever seen and it certainly added to my pleasure when a tow truck in central London just let me retrieve my car without paying the exorbitant impound charges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pity you never tried New Zealand...We hate everybody equally and have no favorites..except for Australians.

[phuketsiam]

I'm a brit and i think harmonica been watching too much hollywood, as for farangs ripping of farangs, on the occasion i have seen it, an ozzie was trying to rip me off once, i saw a german fire a dutch girl for taking her allowed vacation, but she took him to the labour office and got compensation, have seen other farangs riipping of farangs, they can get away with it more easily than with Thai's, and lets face it, Thailand does attract it fair share of farang low-life, including americans harmonica, thats the nature of the visa rules and cheap booze and girls, but like most countries and races etc, there's good and bad everywhere, geralising will always get you into trouble with someone, as I have found out

[RDN]

Just to remind you guys, this topic is about farangs in Thailand exploiting other farangs in Thailand!

Enough of this dollar vs. pound, US vs. Britain bullsh1t!

//Edit: Thanks phuketsiam for trying to get it back on course.

Edited July 14, 2005 by RDN

[chonabot]

Sorry it's my fault , now you've gone and made me all negative and stuff......where's that noose ?

[~G~]

Just to remind you guys, this topic is about farangs in Thailand exploiting other farangs in Thailand!

Enough of this dollar vs. pound, US vs. Britain bullsh1t!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if some members wish to demonstrate some online farang-farang exploitation (or at least online abuse?)

[taxin]

(5) In Thailand they treat Thais like absolute SH*T!  I've personally witnessed such behaviour numerous times in various locales and in many cases when there was not even any alcohol involved.  Then they go on to talk among themselves in clearly understandable obnoxious tones about the very same Thai girl or boy they've just thorougly humiliated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although I agree that the Brits do look down on Thais I have to say the yanks are far more superior than the Brits in this department.

What is it with sceptics that they can never say "please" or "thank you" before or after every sentence ? So annoying !!

Man I wanted to punch this yank yesterday when he walked into the resort where I was. Strolled into the bar and shouted "ICE TEA", without even making eye contact with the bar staff ! No Please, no thank you just "ICE TEA" ! My TGF had to restrain me from giving him a piece of my mind. Prior to me coming over to Thailand I worked 8 years for a very big American organisation, I can safely say that not one of them had an ounce (sorry pound) of manners.

Harmonica, would you enlighten me as to why you guys are so ###### rude ?

Still nowhere near as bad as the Philippines, talk about walking round like they own the place ! Lets hope you guys stay over there and not flood this wonderful country !

[chuchok]

Never been ripped off by a farang here.A few Thais have tried though...

It all depends on the people you mix with.

Edited July 14, 2005 by chuchok

[Harmonica]

Hmmm you seem to have a fascination with War and military might.

We had a tiff with the Argies a few decades back , I recall the US not helping us , yet we are expected to pitch in whenever you lot need some proper expertise.

SAS ring any bells?

As for negativity , just look at the defiance our people are showing in the aftermath of last weeks happenings. We won't be sulking about it for decades unlike some people have done in the past.

Lets face it , your country , for whatever reasons, is the least popular on this planet, unfortunately the UK are your most important allies, you need us as much as vice versa, all of Europe keep trying to persuade UK to sever ties with you guys.

without Europe the USA would become a very lonely place.

But come on , to say the French would whip us is just a step to far.

You are a very funny guy!

The French factor -- that's just joshing about, chonabot. They couldn't beat England, but they can gnaw at her and cause her to surrender!

Fascination with war and military might? God, no! I thoroughly detest war and the stuff that transpired in Afghanistan and Iraq was just plain madness. No excuse for starting those wars! The military angle was only brought up in relation to the "what if" scenario wherein America turned her back on Britain! Nothing more.

Yes, England has handled herself well in the aftermath of the bombings. But then again you have considerable more experience than America with this sort of thing.

America the least popular on the planet? Strongly disagree! George Bush has set America back 100 years in terms of the antediluvian sentiment that america exuded for centuries, namely benevolence. This will have to be re-earned in the future and it will be a hard road -- but Billy (Bill clinton) demonstrated quite clearly that Asia, Africa and Latin America love America quite a good deal, the recent wars notwithstanding.

Yes, we need our allies. Yes, without Europe and the rest of the world, america would be a lonely place and, The UN was the correct way to do things and the entire system broke down -- but I will add this: in the final analysis America really needs nobody to get the job done. This I can say despite the flak I might get.

Could america have gone into Iraq and Afghanistan alone? Yes! She would be stretching her resources, but yes!

[phuketsiam]

oh dear off topic again,

as for :

America really needs nobody to get the job done. This I can say despite the flak I might get.

may i remind you of Vietnam, and what exactly is the job in Iraq and Afghanistan you are doing so well?

[~G~]

America the least popular on the planet?  Strongly disagree!  George Bush has set America back 100 years in terms of the antediluvian sentiment that america exuded for centuries, namely benevolence.  This will have to be re-earned in the future and it will be a hard road -- but Billy (Bill clinton) demonstrated quite clearly that Asia, Africa and Latin America love America quite a good deal, the recent wars notwithstanding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harmonica, I do agree with you that Clinton's administration was nothing like the horror show the world is experiencing now - but suggesting that Anti-American feelings have only started recently will be far from the truth.

There was only one country in the history of human kind who actually used nuclear weapons - and against innocent civilians, of all targets. This was done by a perfectly democratic government, based on an enlightened and advanced constitution.

We can count more atrocities, the biggest of all being vietnam.

When was America really loved in Asia?

Edited July 14, 2005 by ~G~

[Harmonica]

OK fellas, let's get back on track here. We can continue with the other stuff in another, appropriate thread.

-------------------------------------

One farang even tried to get me to agree to pay his hospital bill and wait for a year to get reimbursed. Another flat out asked for a 500,000 Baht loan and during the entire conversation never even spoke a single word about repayment.

There are a few other isolated events -- I came close a couple times to coughing up the dough, but in hindsight now, I'm glad I did not.

With Thais, I've made over 20 personal loans -- all paid back as agreed and without misemotion.

The interesting thing is that none of the Thais actually asked me for a loan -- my gal found out about their situation -- perhaps they spoke to her about their difficulties -- I don't know, but it was always I who volunteered the loan -- but asked for a clear statement of payback.

What can I say? My dealings with Thais have been positive and even though the amounts might be small to us, they sure as heck are huge for them.

[phuketsiam]

Yeah, i've lent Thai's money and always been paid back, on time too , i have lent money to a few farang friends too, and they also paid me back, but in general its not lending money thats the problem, if you trust someone enough to lend money too then if it goes pear shaped then thats an error of judgement of your part, its when the ****** try to scam you, and farangs do a lot of that in LOS, including the brits

[Harmonica]

I'm a brit and i think harmonica been watching too much hollywood, as for farangs ripping of farangs, on the occasion i have seen it, an ozzie was trying to rip me off once, i saw a german fire a dutch girl for taking her allowed vacation, but she took him to the labour office and got compensation, have seen other farangs riipping of farangs, they can get away with it more easily than with Thai's, and lets face it, Thailand does attract it fair share of farang low-life, including americans harmonica, thats the nature of the visa rules and cheap booze and girls, but like most countries and races etc, there's good and bad everywhere, geralising will always get you into trouble with someone, as I have found out

Me watching too much hollywood? ... guilty!

But, phuketsiam I have not said that it was Brits who were doing the ripping off. I agree that it easily could be Americans doing these sort of things -- similarly it could be any nationality. The Brits topic had a different slant. Enough said there!

[~G~]

falangs exploiting falangs.. falangs exploiting thais... thais exploiting falangs...

There are many hungry beasts out there Personally it takes me a lot a time to trust a person, and when it comes to business I am 10 times more careful - after all greed is the biggest motivator of human behaviour, why assume the person with which you are negotiating is a saint?

[Harmonica]

Yeah, i've lent Thai's money and always been paid back, on time too , i have lent money to a few farang friends too, and they also paid me back, but in general its not lending money thats the problem, if you trust someone enough to lend money too then if it goes pear shaped then thats an error of judgement of your part, its when the ****** try to scam you, and farangs do a lot of that in LOS, including the brits

It was a scam! In hindsight the loans that I was being asked to make to these farangs were actually booby trapped right from the start as they had absolutely no intention of repaying -- but when one is relatively new in LOS, one's guard is down -- everything looks beautiful and its easy to develop that stupid look of eternal glee. That's when you get nailed easily.

[phuketsiam]

Yeah, the newbie's are the easiest pickings, and in the stange new land a familier (farang) face seems more trustworthy, keep up your guard, everyone should read Private Dancer and other related literature on their first flight over

[Harmonica]

oh dear off topic again,

as for :

America really needs nobody to get the job done. This I can say despite the flak I might get.

may i remind you of Vietnam, and what exactly is the job in Iraq and Afghanistan you are doing so well?

The answer is very simple, phuketsiam -- America lost the war in Vietnam -- she has also lost in Afghanistan and is losing currently in Iraq -- but, the point is that her allies are with her and despite this she is losing plus ... had there been no allies, she would still have gone in -- that's my point.

Back to the topic:

The worst incident and the one that hurt the most was perpetrated by a non-farang foreigner -- we had talked several times and he desperately needed USD 50,000 -- even my gal liked him and his repayment plans were quite convincing.

We agreed to meet at an outdoor eating stall and make the final deal before I actually did the transfer. I was lucky. He had a friend with him and neither was aware that my gal was at the next table chatting with the owner -- she had her back to them.

At some point she came over to me and said, "don't give these men the money, they intend to rob you!"

These guys were speaking to each other in Thai and were cocksure that I understood none -- (which was correct at that time).

Saved by a young, 20 year old, charming Thai girl. Needless to say, this girl, who is still with me today and possibly till I croak, is absolutely the most honest person I have ever met, farang, non-farang, or foreigner!

[phuketsiam]

Great Story

[meom]

What's a non farang foreigner?

[Harmonica]

What's a non farang foreigner?

Arabs, jews, indians, pakistanis, iranians etc., -- I believe they are called "Khek" in Thailand.

[meom]

Ok. Clear

[Harmonica]

America the least popular on the planet?  Strongly disagree!  George Bush has set America back 100 years in terms of the antediluvian sentiment that america exuded for centuries, namely benevolence.  This will have to be re-earned in the future and it will be a hard road -- but Billy (Bill clinton) demonstrated quite clearly that Asia, Africa and Latin America love America quite a good deal, the recent wars notwithstanding.

Harmonica, I do agree with you that Clinton's administration was nothing like the horror show the world is experiencing now - but suggesting that Anti-American feelings have only started recently will be far from the truth.

When was America really loved in Asia?

G, during the Bill Clinton era. No, I was not suggesting that anti-am sentiment had only just begun during GW's term -- but that is surely where/when it skyrocketed!

[Harmonica]

Funny how you can make such generalisation(sic), yet have never travelled there my good friend Harmy?

I have been to the UK many times but have never lived there. I lived in both Sweden and Germany for a few years so it was generally close enough to travel to England.

Got to say, despite what I've already said, Britain has some of the most stunning countryside I've ever seen and it certainly added to my pleasure when a tow truck in central London just let me retrieve my car without paying the exorbitant impound charges.

Pity you never tried New Zealand...We hate everybody equally and have no favorites..except for Australians.

New Zealand is on my list as a must-see destination -- actually more so than Australia. New Zealand and Alaska -- before I go into the next life!

[EVO]

What a fascinating thread!

The OP had a great point, and then Harmonica chimed in with all kinds of comments. This is what makes this forum so interesting, and yes, i am a Brit.

Hopefullly, i can offer some selected comments that are relevant to both the OP, and the little antagonistic comments posted by him mentioned above, though, hats off, they were worded very nicely.

First and foremost, I am one of those entrepreneurs that you talk to in the bars (if i ever had chance to get to the bars!!). I am definately not wealthy, and am struggling to make a future for my family and i, but without talking to others (not bragging) how can you exepct to network and find out new avenues to persue? That, to me is what is called doing business, whether in your home land or in a foreign country.

I am certainly not one of the farangs who moans about this country un-necessarily, but hey, why cant we moan about it? when in your own country dont you have gripes that you talk about when down at the pub with your friends? There are many things here that irritate the ###### out of me! Starting with the serious inefieciency (sp?) of the beurocracy throughout the country, which is the first stumbling block of any developing nation. But, were i at home i would be moaning about the road works on the A1, or the recent budget Tax increases. Different places, different gripes, same outcome. That's human kind.

With regard to other comments by Harmonica, mai pen rai. I just point out the Britain has the 8th highest military budget in the world, but only the 97th largest military force. No other force in the world could sail 9000 (?) miles around the world to take on a force 60 times its size and succeed in its mission. That should tell you something. Our most secret special forces have the motto, 'Not by strength, but by guile." Maybe that should be adopted by the Americans to some degree.

I am one of those who loves USA bashing, but at the same time i love the USA. I love the country itself, and the vast majority of Americans i have met are wonderful, interesting people, but please dont tell me that a country in which 60% of college grads cannot pin the UK on a map, or name the Prime Minister of the UK doesnt have problems. It is fact that the USA has the highest poverty rate in the developed world. The fact that in general most citizens have no idea what is happening in the world around them speaks for itself.

The point i am making is that all countries have strengths and weaknesses. America is not as great as it likes to think. Thailand is not the wonderful easy life in a tropical paradise, and the UK is not the easiest, warmest or anything else. All have good and bad points.

And in response to the OP. I have been in the country for almost 4 years now, and of the hundreds of numbers i have in my cellphone of people that i have met, i would only trust my money with a certain few. They would be 70% Thai. I leave my staff in charge of hundreds of thousands of Baht, and have no worries, but i have only a couple of farang friends who i would trust with such sums. The bottom line is that yes, Thailand attracts some low lifes, but so do most western cities. You watch your back wherever you are, and whatever you are doing.

Anyway, thats my rant over. My fingers hurt!

Goodnight to all.

[khall64au]

What a fascinating thread!

The OP had a great point, and then Harmonica chimed in with all kinds of comments. This is what makes this forum so interesting, and yes, i am a Brit.

Hopefullly, i can offer some selected comments that are relevant to both the OP, and the little antagonistic comments posted by him mentioned above, though, hats off, they were worded very nicely.

First and foremost, I am one of those entrepreneurs that you talk to in the bars (if i ever had chance to get to the bars!!). I am definately not wealthy, and am struggling to make a future for my family and i, but without talking to others (not bragging) how can you exepct to network and find out new avenues to persue? That, to me is what is called doing business, whether in your home land or in a foreign country.

I am certainly not one of the farangs who moans about this country un-necessarily, but hey, why cant we moan about it? when in your own country dont you have gripes that you talk about when down at the pub with your friends? There are many things here that irritate the ###### out of me! Starting with the serious inefieciency (sp?) of the beurocracy throughout the country, which is the first stumbling block of any developing nation. But, were i at home i would be moaning about the road works on the A1, or the recent budget Tax increases. Different places, different gripes, same outcome. That's human kind.

With regard to other comments by Harmonica, mai pen rai. I just point out the Britain has the 8th highest military budget in the world, but only the 97th largest military force. No other force in the world could sail 9000 (?) miles around the world to take on a force 60 times its size and succeed in its mission. That should tell you something. Our most secret special forces have the motto, 'Not by strength, but by guile." Maybe that should be adopted by the Americans to some degree.

I am one of those who loves USA bashing, but at the same time i love the USA. I love the country itself, and the vast majority of Americans i have met are wonderful, interesting people, but please dont tell me that a country in which 60% of college grads cannot pin the UK on a map, or name the Prime Minister of the UK doesnt have problems. It is fact that the USA has the highest poverty rate in the developed world. The fact that in general most citizens have no idea what is happening in the world around them speaks for itself.

The point i am making is that all countries have strengths and weaknesses. America is not as great as it likes to think. Thailand is not the  wonderful easy life in a tropical paradise, and the UK is not the easiest, warmest or anything else. All have good and bad points.

And in response to the OP. I have been in the country for almost 4 years now, and of the hundreds of numbers i have in my cellphone of people that i have met, i would only trust my money with a certain few. They would be 70% Thai. I leave my staff in charge of hundreds of thousands of Baht, and have no worries, but i have only a couple of farang friends who i would trust with such sums. The bottom line is that yes, Thailand attracts some low lifes, but so do most western cities. You watch your back wherever you are, and whatever you are doing.

Anyway, thats my rant over. My fingers hurt!

Goodnight to all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK guys.... going back to my original posting. I am still bickering with my ex-boss over payments owed, but the good news is: at least we are bickering and I may still get paid eventually. I do have other friends though in shitty circumstances where they have no alternative income in the foreseeable future as they were "trapped" into working for certain farang companies that promised this and that and, you know who it goes.... the money failed to arrive, savings are eroded... and if you don't want to go home... you seek broader pastures (that may or may not exist).

Anyway, just letting you know there usually is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I surely believe so.