Advice Asked On Looking For A Job In Thailand

[BeardedDragon]

I am in a sort of dilema. I hope maybe some people from the forum can help me out a bit.

I am a Dutch student and just finished my study bachelor International Business and Languages (the 31th of August).

Until recently (last August) I worked in Thailand for an internship as part of my study. My final thesis consisted of exploring if it was interesting and sensible for a Dutch company to start providing its services within Thailand.

This internship took place in Chonburi/Banglamung region and lasted from February 2010 till August 2010.This was not the only internship during my study. I also forfilled my first internship within the Chonburi/Banglamung region of Thailand. I worked together with a group of students, and we had to analyze and map out the successfactors of little Thai entrepeneurs. This internship also lasted 6 months.

Right now (September 2010), I am back home in the Netherlands. Last week I graduated from my school and got my certificate.

Looking for a job is hard over here during the financial crisis right now. Furthermore, I can not apply for the social security money when looking for a job because of the new rules. Besides that I have a lot of eager and feeling to go back to Thailand (or another part of Southeast Asia).

Would it be a smart descission to go back to Thailand and look for a job?

I know about the rules (i.e. for every "falang" a company needs to hire at least 4 Thai, the total share-capital needs to increase with 1 million baht, "falang" can only get a job for which they cannot contract a Thai, and more). I am also aware that networking and knowing the right people can be more important than my degree.

Furthermore I am not very interested in teaching jobs, because I want to work by using my degree of International Business and Languages. I have some money saved to help me out, but I know it can go fast when you need to pay things like rent, travelcosts, food and more. I am also interested in learning the language better. Right now I can speak Thai, but I am also interested in reading and writing Thai.

I am very realistic and understand how things will work out. I am also aware of the fact that there is no social security system in Thailand (you need to build up your own pension and money for when you lose your job) and insurance can be expensive for foreigners. In the past, when I stayed in Thailand, I applied for some jobs, but received only from one job the message that they were not interested.

Still however, I am asking myself the question: Would it be more wise to stay here, using my saved money for looking for a job? Or would it be more wise to go back to Thailand, and look for a job over there, using my saved money?

Edited September 7, 2010 by BeardedDragon

[thepanom]

<P>I am afraid that it will be very difficult to find a job in Thailand, only if you find a dutch company who wants to send you over here , as a ex pat, then it it will be ok, otherwise it wil be teaching english or mabey dutch</P>

[emsfeld]

The short anwer is, yes, it can be done. The long answer comes with a few caveats. I am not working in Thailand nor have I ever, but I have quite a few buddies who make a reasonably good living in Thailand with a background/ age/ experience similar to yours. None of them are language teachers. Three of them are entrepreneurs running quite successful businesses and the other guys are in the 'corporate' world. All of them started out with very little work experience.

As for the entrepreneurs, they had the drive, passion and patience (a lot of the latter) to see their business through until they eventually started reaping the benefits of the hard labour and risk they took on. The others within the corporate set have all acquired strong technical skills which makes them assets in their profession. They all come from an academic background in business but have additional skills either acquired through being interested or as second majors. For the persons I am referring to this means expert knowledge in design, programming, maths, engineering, mapping and marketing business models into the 'virtual' domain, and so on.

You dont mention much about your technical skill set, but my experience is that 'plain' business knowledge only makes it much tougher on yourself to be a good candidate, especially in Thailand, at the start of your career. The value added from an employer's perspective (for a pure business hire) comes from a thorough understanding of how a (corporate) business operates, experience, and your network. Something a fresh grad cannot offer so there is little incentive for a company based in Thailand to hire you. With a thorough technical skill set you can compensate for the latter at the beginning of a career. This kind of limits your options - other than trying and giving it a shot, you dont have many (at least from a corporate perspective).

This leaves you with the entrepreneural route as an option which is a very tough one indeed. Not only will you have to deal with a lot of local bureaucracy, but also marketing a product/ service in a market very unknown to you. Again, it can be done, but might require some backing - capital at the very least.

The bottom line is, you are still young, so why not give it a shot. Probability of success might be low, but at least you know you tried. At your age you can easily recover from any (financial) losses incurred in no time. Just my 2cents.

[mrdeedee]

w ops background id recommend not good idea to try and make it in thailand.

i dont have an advanced degree but why did it take so long to find out what makes a successful entrepeneur? isnt the answer the same for thai ones, afrikan ones, dutch ones. :lol:

[witold]

Well, if you haven't networked yourself into a job already after 2 internships/1 year in Thailand, then you shouldn't expect to somehow find a job now. It seems like you should have a better idea of how things work in Thailand by now.

International Business/Languages is a generic degree that doesn't offer any specific technical skill to employers. As such, you are competing with a ton of well educated and well connected Thais with similar skills. As you know, even many 7/11 girls have college degrees here. The question you have to ask yourself is: why am I worth 50000 baht when a Thai will do the same thing and put in more hours for 18K, without the hassle of getting work permits, etc? If you can answer this question to yourself, then you know your next step.

Most westerners are either managers with many years experience, have techie skills, started their own business, or teach English. Thailand is not a place to go as a new graduate.

[BeardedDragon]

Thanks for all the usefull replies so far.

@ emsfeld:

I understand your story completely. I think that your friends studied for professions that are probably hard to get in Thailand (more specialized fields of study). The field of study I took (International Business and Languages) is common, also in Thailand. Furthermore, I possess a bachelors degree and not a masters yet. I am also not planning to start with a master.

Furthermore, I am not the person for running and starting a business in Thailand. I do not want to gamble with my money and spend all of it on a risky business.

I am also carefull with spending my saved money. I actually only want to spend it, when it will bring in a job.

@ witold

I understand what you are saying to. Thai with the same degree, often ask lower wages than yourself for the same job position. We westerners most of the time have our own thoughts about wages and how much we need to get. I think we compare it to often with what we get in our own country and our pattern of spending (i.e. we need a room with aircon, security at the condo, save money for a flight back home once in a while).

Good thing you are mentioning about the working experience. I not have any right now since I just graduated (I have some experience from little administrative tasks but that is neglectable).

Overall I am also thinking about working for a Dutch (or international) company that has offices in Thailand. Once working for one of them, it would be more easier to move over to Thailand, while still working for them.

Keep those replies comming by the way. I am very interested to hearing from all of you. Also people who took the risk, and went to Thailand themselves in the look out for a job (not for a teaching job or internet business).

[Lumumba]

I missed the part where the OP mentioned his age, so I am keeping my advice until I get that info.

[Flex2791]

If you dont try you will never know. Nothing ventured = nothing gained. I say come to Thailand and see what happens. I came to Thailand 5 years ago with a backpack and enough money to last me 6 months. 5 years later, I am still here and just moved in to my newly built 10 million baht house. Anything is possible if you put your mind to it. Only problem is you say you dont want to spend money unless it brings you a job. Whatever you think your budget will be while looking for a job in Thailand, better double it. Worse thing that can happen is you eventually run out of money go back to your country with some great stories to tell your friends. Only live once.

[BeardedDragon]

Flex, can you tell me what kind of job you have and what degree?

And Lumumba, I am 27 and turning 28 this September.

[BeardedDragon]

Ow and another thing to add:

I am currently living at my mothers place. That makes it much easier for me to travel back.

I do not have furniture, a car or other "big" things. I have a pet, but can always look to put him with another person.

And:

I lived and worked in Jomtien. I am very used to the whole eastern seaboard region and am planning to look for a job within Chonburi or Rayong (due to the many industries and international look of the region) or in greater Bangkok (less preferable for me, and I do not know Bangkok that good).

Edited September 8, 2010 by BeardedDragon

[Furbie]

I would say it's possible, but difficult. You really need to network and pursue opportunities aggressively. Many people say they can do this, but it is simply not true. Networking in this way is a real skill set.

I personally know of two university graduates who had their first professional (not English teaching or as a true education professional, English or otherwise) positions in Thailand. One makes 45,000 THB per month with a one month bonus and the other made 60,000 THB plus commissions of around 10,000 THB per month, a bit more in a good month. The second person lost their job the second the company got into trouble (had the highest salary other than the MD and senior manager), struggled for a couple of years (luckily his wife is a Thai professional) and landed on his feet with a better paying job. Neither of them worked before Thailand except in internships. So it is possible. It would, however, be a major coup for you to get hired by a Dutch firm and transferred to Thailand – I am not saying it's not possible, but I would bet there are loads of people in every Dutch company who would love to be transferred to Thailand.

The real question to think about is "how long will I live in Thailand?". If you suspect you will not be here forever, consider the following:

1) As you have no work experience in developed countries, especially Western countries, your CV will look much less attractive when you leave Thailand. Thailand is not seen as a hot bed of producing top caliber international level managers. Unless you are talking about a skill set– say, sourcing or low tech factory management in developing countries – you will not have much in the way of marketable experience.

2) Your next job's wages are often determined by your current job. So, let's say you work in Thailand for a compensation package that is less than you would earn in the Netherlands. You do this for 2-4 years. You then decide you need to return. The first thing HR will do (assuming they will even look at your CV as you have no Western experience) is look at your current salary. Rightly or wrongly, this will be used as a basis. Too low, something is wrong with you. Too high, they don't want to pay it. One of my friends spent four years working in Thailand before deciding to return. He found a good position in the US paying $110,000 per year, but almost lost it once his paperwork went to HR and they found out his current salary was $45,000 per year. In the end, they hired him, but it took two extra months and they cut the salary to $85,000. It took him three more years to get it to the right level. That's a huge loss!!!

3) Job habits, job performance. I may get flamed for this, but I firmly believe that you are missing out on valuable professional/work/learning experience for yourself if you do not work in the West first. Having worked in a professional capacity in Thailand for many years now, I can confidently say that you will do better if you develop professional work habits and work ethics in the West, which will serve you well the rest of your life. You will likely learn from better managers and have better professional experiences there than in Thailand. The Thai workplace is simply not a good place for professional development, unless it is an extremely progressive Western company – even then, it's difficult to find one that will help you develop into the best possible professional you can be. This is something you need to ask yourself, as not everyone is geared to be a high flyer. If that is your goal, look elsewhere for the time being. If you don't want to be a top professional, then OK.

Good luck with whatever you decide. For the record, I came to Thailand without a job as a professional with about seven years of experience in the US and have done extremely well in my time here. Also for the record, so has all but one in my close circle of friends, and not one of them was transferred in by a company. In fact, all of them found positions here and many have moved on to better positions, some with regional focus. The common theme - we wanted to do it and we went for it.

(I did some grammar editing)

Edited September 9, 2010 by Furbie

[BeardedDragon]

@ Furbie

thanks a lot for a very usefull reply.

Good to mention that upon your return, western companies will look into your CV. Working experience in Thailand does not sound so good. Still however, I think that it sounds good that you took a chance in another country (that you are a person very open for a new environment).

Another thing: for the salary and the whole benefit package you not need to come to Thailand. In a normals position with your bachelors degree you will always receive less money than you will get with the same position in a company back in Europe. I can also understand that future employers will take a look at your last salary before hiring you.

I am also thinking it would be better to get some working experience here in Europe to, and after that maybe make the move.

Another thing is also this:

The economy is bad over here, but I can probably still get easy jobs over here like callcenter-work, administrative work, reception work. Just for getting the money.

In Thailand I would never get a job like that one (maybe one as a teacher, but that is something I not want to do). They will always have Thai people for these positions.

Keep by the way those replies comming. They are very helpfull right now.

[BeardedDragon]

And another question/point of discussion:

What are the best ways to apply for a job?

Right now I look on the "XPress Jobs-site" from The Nation (the big newspaper). There are a lot of jobs stated on this site, and it is a good overview.

Unfortunatly, the response from the companies I send my application to is zero to nothing.

And:

Is another way in applying more successfull?

When I would be in Thailand, I can visit them in person. Before for my research, I also visited a lot of companies, schools and government agencies,

and everybody wanted to help me out and wanted to fill in with me my questionaire. I also wore a suit at all time.

Still however, when I come in and ask for a job it can be different.

[schmutzie]

And another question/point of discussion:

What are the best ways to apply for a job?

Right now I look on the "XPress Jobs-site" from The Nation (the big newspaper). There are a lot of jobs stated on this site, and it is a good overview.

Unfortunatly, the response from the companies I send my application to is zero to nothing.

And:

Is another way in applying more successfull?

When I would be in Thailand, I can visit them in person. Before for my research, I also visited a lot of companies, schools and government agencies,

and everybody wanted to help me out and wanted to fill in with me my questionaire. I also wore a suit at all time.

Still however, when I come in and ask for a job it can be different.

I think the biggest concerns, as already stated, is the wage level and quality of professional experience. If I've skimmed your posts correctly, it appears that you are in love with Thailand and want to try and make a life here.

Have you looked at the major organisations like NGOs and places like UN/EU/IMF? IMF runs a graduate program I believe. You sound like a good candidate for a junior position there.

I think you need some clear goals/"dream job" and not just chip away in any direction. You seem to have the right attitude, so if you can focus a bit I think you'll find something eventually.

[BeardedDragon]

Thanks schmutzie

Well, I like Thailand a lot...learning a different culture, Thai food, the nice weather, and most of all learning the language.

Still, I am aware of the fact that we foreigners, will always be seen as foreigners. This results in the fact that we cannot buy property in the way Thais do, we need to pay more on several occasions, we are still perceived as the ones with money and we will need to cope with the problems on getting a job (work permit, visa, low wages compared to back home, no money when you lose a job, all other Thai rules).

Therefore I am very realistic about looking for a job. If it just isn't attractive, I rather stay here in the Netherlands. Still however, the Dutch economic climate is bad at this moment. And also I am not able to receive non-employment money at the moment. That makes me still think about taking a plane to Thailand (or other Southeast Asian places, I heard Vietnam is also upcomming) and look there for a job.

I will have a look in what the NGO's can offer me.

ANother question I still have:

I recently sended out a lot of application letters to various Thai companies, still however I never got any response back. Is it common for Thai companies not to respond?

I read on aonther board that if they see an address in another country like Thailand, you have no chance on getting the job at all. True or not?

Furthermore, I am interested in what the best way is to approach companies? In person, or by e-mail/letter?

[welovesundaysatspace]

I recently sended out a lot of application letters to various Thai companies, still however I never got any response back. Is it common for Thai companies not to respond?

I read on aonther board that if they see an address in another country like Thailand, you have no chance on getting the job at all. True or not?

Furthermore, I am interested in what the best way is to approach companies? In person, or by e-mail/letter?

I am in the same situation like you. I will receive my masters degree in Information Systems in January. I was living in Thailand the last 2 years, first for a stay abroad of six months studying BA at a Thai university (a non-reputable, unfortunately, something you should also consider when applying here, in particular when the HR person is a Thai, who are aware of the reputation of some university), interning with a German multinational for another half year, then carrying out the empirical part of my final thesis in cooperation with another two German multinationals and working on a freelance consulting project at the same time. Even though I made some useful contacts here, I am pretty realistic that chances are rather low, at least given the standards I set for myself which are rather high both in terms of salary as well as general career opportunities (training and education, support for a post-graduate degree, general contents of the job, etc.).

As for your last question, I wrote a post for the StudyInThailand.org forum some time ago about finding an internship in Thailand. That post both covers the never-got-any-response-back thing as well as some general hints about approaching the companies. Basically, I would try to find an expat contact and approach him directly rather than going through the Thai HR people.

As for your topic in general, I strongly agree to what all the others, in particular emsfeld and furbie mentioned already. Depending on what your standards are, chances of finding a suitable job in Thailand are low or even impossible. Even the minimum salary of 50kTHB they have to pay a Farang to get a work permit would be far too low for my standards, while it's already too high for Thai standards (a fresh bachelor graduate earns something about 15kTHB at companies like Siemens; the manager level is something about 50-80kTHB). Furthermore, your future career will to some extent depend on what you earn and (even more important) learn now. Personally, I think that both in terms of earning as well as learning only a manager job could provide that, but then your experience and age come into play.

What I recommend to do is the same I will do:

I think you should set your standards first both in terms of salary as well as the job in general (career opportunities, training and education, corporate culture, etc.). I think it's important, otherwise you might find yourself in the situation of taking any job just for the sake of living in Thailand. Then, set yourself a timeframe (maybe 4-6 weeks) you want to take for applications. You might even come to Thailand for some time to apply there directly. However, if you cannot find a suitable job during that time, stop it and better start to work somewhere else and come back with experience and age. Personally, I believe the European labor market is getting better, at least thinking about recent experiences in Germany.

Another path would be starting an own business as others already suggested. For me, it's still a tempting path, but then I would not do it without having a good business model, one which pays off as well as which is something you really believe in and would love to do.

A last possible path would be to study for a Ph.D. or MBA or similar and working as a Professor the same time. I am not so familiar with the wages, but I know quite some Farang people do it. Even back in Germany it's a career path quite some university graduates follow and future career opportunities are rather good. However, you should consider your age as well as if you want to study again.

[BeardedDragon]

Thanks for the last response welovesundaysatspace!

I was by the way not aware of that rule about minimum salary. So a farang does always need to get 50.000 in a job position.

Furthermore, I never got paid for my internships. In Holland you get money from the Dutch government while studying. That is the income I had when I did my two internships in Thailand. I never earned any money from a Thai company myself. I believe that getting paid for an internship by a company in Thailand is 1 in a 10.000 or something.

Starting up a company, is by the way allready out of the question. I have money, but I do not want to gamble with it in starting up something.

Another question which arose last week:

Are there any people here who found work in neighbouring countries like Laos, Vietnam or Malaysia?

I been to all three, and I have also a strong feeling for Laos and/or Vietnam.

[welovesundaysatspace]

I was by the way not aware of that rule about minimum salary. So a farang does always need to get 50.000 in a job position.

I don't want to bet my life on it, but afaik it is like that. However, there might be, as so often in Thailand, exceptions from the rule, e.g. my internship was paid with ~35kTHB per month.

I believe that getting paid for an internship by a company in Thailand is 1 in a 10.000 or something.

I don't know a percentage. I think for a multinational employing a Western intern it is quite normal to pay a certain salary. Like my boss said, if he would not pay a competitive salary, the Western students would stay at home and intern with a company there, where salaries about ~1,000 EUR are the standard (though some investment banks pay up to ~3,000 EUR per month). For Thai students, afaik it's quite normal that they do not get paid. Some of them have to do the internship as a mandatory part of their studies, so they are thankful just for interning with a reputable company. Also, the contents of the internships seem to differ depending on whether you are Thai or Farang. Whereas Thai students often seemed to have a support role carrying out little challenging research task and writing the MoM, Farang students were made responsible of own projects.

Starting up a company, is by the way allready out of the question. I have money, but I do not want to gamble with it in starting up something.

You don't necessarily need to invest your own money. If you have a good idea, you should be able to find investment firm funding your business with venture capital and even knowledge and personal support. However, I don't want to advertise anything; it's just another path one could take, and I can truly understand your concerns.

Another question which arose last week:

Are there any people here who found work in neighbouring countries like Laos, Vietnam or Malaysia?

I been to all three, and I have also a strong feeling for Laos and/or Vietnam.

That's another possible path I forgot to mention. I recently talked to a (ex-)classmate of mine who is facing the same situation and his older brother did as well. He found a rather well-paid job in Singapore and now flies back to Bangkok almost every weekend. However, even though I totally share your feeling for Laos, I think with the aforementioned countries you won't be more lucky than with Thailand. I believe the situation will be almost the same as in Thailand (lower wages, less career opportunities, etc.). I think Singapore is the place to try then; a lot of multinationals there, the official language is English, and the wages are on a Western leven afaik.

Btw.: I recently looked through some job ads for Thailand, and found this one which reminded me of you since they are looking for Dutch native speakers (besides others).

Edited September 14, 2010 by welovesundaysatspace

[BeardedDragon]

Thanks for the helping hand.

Well, the internship was an obligatory part of my study. So therefore I had to participate in the both of them.

I also wrote on the vacancy you posted yesterday. I hope it will work out and that I will receive some kind of response.

Everything stated in the vacancy is typical for my field of study.

[chops]

there's not much money these days in being an employee, certainly if you're not in some kind of labor union.

think about it. there are 7 billion people who can do exactly what you do and for less than you do it.

employers can offshore, fire, and treat their workers like crap.

I run my own business. that's the way to go.

[BeardedDragon]

@ chops, can you give some more detail about your own business/work?

Anyway my current situation:

I am applying a lot the last few days on jobs here in the Netherlands.

Still however in most cases (the jobs that match my field of study) the employer expect that you have allready some working experience. That knocks me out allready.

I also apply on the easier jobs (light administrative work, customer service, helpdesk). The reason why companies within these sectors do not employ you, is that they are

to afraid you will leave them as soon as you receive a better position, matching your field of study.

I applied on some positions in Thailand, but with no result yet.

[BeardedDragon]

Ow...another question...

with what kind of study do you have more chances on success:

- learning thai (I can speak it now reasonably)

- getting a TEFL and teach English

[welovesundaysatspace]

with what kind of study do you have more chances on success:

- learning thai (I can speak it now reasonably)

- getting a TEFL and teach English

Imho you first should make up your mind about what "success" means for you. For me, neither learning more Thai nor teaching English mean success. Salary and career opportunities are still too low, even with a TEFL or fluent Thai. I would rather invest some time back home and build up some experience so I can go back to Thailand later on. I know it's hard; I feel the same.

[BeardedDragon]

Well, with success I also mean staying there and networking around during studying Thai or studying for a TEFL.

Another thing would be to use a teaching job first, to enter other jobs that are more connected to your own field of study.

I know one guy, he finished his TEFL had some teaching jobs, but found an interesting job later on, on a big university.

In that way you can see that a teaching job is a first step to something.

[BeardedDragon]

Anyway, update about the current situation:

Am still looking for a job back in the Netherlands. Had two interviews, but I believe that within both jobs they were looking for someone with work experience.

I also still staying at more parents house, since I came back, which cracks me up sometime.

I have still some urge in travelling to Thailand and looking for something, since staying here also makes me more or less paranoia bit by bit.

Still however, I applied for numerous jobs, and not only for jobs in Thailand, but also Hong Kong, Vietnam and the Phillipines by e-mail. None of them gave any response whatsoever.

Some jobs even asked for Dutch native speakers, but I did not hear anything back from them.

Edited October 18, 2010 by BeardedDragon

[BeardedDragon]

And another update:

Still no job here in the Netherlands (with my bachelors degree International Business). I am almost 3 months looking for a job over here now as a graduate, without any results. Am also still living with my mom because I cannot afford to rent a place for myself. This also feds me up a lot. Another thing is that companies that have lower jobs are to afraid to hire you. They think you will leave them as soon as you find a better job.

That makes me still think to pack my bag and leave for Thailand to look for better possibilities.

Any people here who are in the same situation? Or any people who just went?

Edited November 23, 2010 by BeardedDragon

[meom]

Instead of looking for a permanent job why not start temporary work through one of the manpower agencies?

You probably won't get to do what you studied for but at least you'll be doing something which might give you a more positive outlook.

[BeardedDragon]

hmm, you mean the manpower agencies in Bangkok right? You can just walk in them or what?

I still assume it can be difficult, because I heard that also those agencies need to prove that a farang can not take the job.

[Soutpeel]

hmm, you mean the manpower agencies in Bangkok right? You can just walk in them or what?

I still assume it can be difficult, because I heard that also those agencies need to prove that a farang can not take the job.

If you cant get a job in your own country, what makes you think getting one in Thailand will be any easier ?.

Hate to p*ss on your parade but think you would have two chances of getting something here...no chance and FA chance, unless you become an "English Teacher"

[meom]

hmm, you mean the manpower agencies in Bangkok right? You can just walk in them or what?

No I actually meant the manpower agencies back in Holland since you mention you're there already three months looking for a job and living with your mom.

There's plenty of agencies in Holland and getting temporary work isn't to difficult and yes you can just walk in there, register and take any job they offer. Most of the jobs will not require much schooling so it will be below your standard but nothing wrong with that as long as you work and manage to take care yourself.