Visa To Go To Uk, With Complications

[manjara]

Hi,

I looked for another topic that was similar to post this under, but it seems my situation is a little unique.

My wife and I have been married and living together in Thailand and other places in Asia for the last 2.5 years. We have one daughter who is 1 year 3 months, although we didn't actually officially marry until 1 year ago (due to my work commitments outside Thailand).

Now my father (widower) has not been too well recently and my plan is to go back to the UK for a while and I also have some interviews lined up to move back to Europe (not necessarily UK).

So, I want to take the family back for a couple of months and see what the work situation is. If I decide to work in the UK, then we would like to get a longer visa to stay in the UK.

But here is where the complication arises. I don't want to go through the settlement visa process right now because we may not stay in the UK, and also I want to get to the UK as soon as possible. The answer would seem to be a tourist visa, for 6 months, but my wife is expecting our second baby and trying to get the Settlement visa with approaching health travel restrictions and heightened emotional state is not really something I would want to go through.

What are the possibilities of extending or getting a settlement visa after arriving in the UK (due to impending birth of our baby, due in January)? Will the whole baby thing count against us?

What happens if I apply for the Settlement visa and then don't go to live in the UK?

I have a house in the UK and sufficient bank balance to show means of support (by any definition) so that should not be a problem.

My daughter is Thai, and I am listed as the father on the Thai birth certificate, but the birth is not yet registered in the UK.

I have sent off to the UK for my birth certifcate (long form) to remedy this.

Any pointers or advice would be appreciated.

[manjara]

Incidentally, I have been trying to call the Visa General Enquiries line:

+44 20 7008 8438

which treated me to 2 minutes 45 seconds telling me what it couldn't do and where I should look first, then said it was transferring me to an operator, upon which, a Yorkshire voice says 'All our operators are busy just now, please call again later', then a womans voice says 'Goodbye' and the line goes dead.

This is the line for Overseas nationals trying to get advice on getting visas to the UK. Do you think they are trying to discourage people?

If it was a Thai national phoning at CAT rates, they would have spent the equivalent of 3 dinners, just to hear that final, unbelievable, message - 'Goodbye! - click'

On their website they say that a wife should apply for a settlement visa, but what if you don't want to settle!

[GU22]

If you are successful in applying for a visit visa, then at the end of 6 months your wife will have to leave the UK. Although there is no hard and fast rule on this next bit, it is highly unlikely that she would get another visit visa if it meant she would spend more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK. If she does come to the UK with a visit visa she will not be able to switch to settlement within the UK, she would have to return to Thailand and apply for settlement there.

Therefore I think your best bet is a settlement visa. She can leave the UK and return as many times and often as she likes during the life of the visa. If she is still in the UK at the end of 2 years then she can apply for indefinite leave to remain and henceforth come and go as she pleases. If you decide during the life of the visa that you don't wish to remain in the UK then she is free to leave at any time.

Some useful links.

Guidance - Husbands, wives and partners (INF 4) (01/06/05)

Guidance - Family members (INF 6) (19/04/05)

[manjara]

If you are successful in applying for a visit visa, then at the end of 6 months your wife will have to leave the UK. Although there is no hard and fast rule on this next bit, it is highly unlikely that she would get another visit visa if it meant she would spend more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK. If she does come to the UK with a visit visa she will not be able to switch to settlement within the UK, she would have to return to Thailand and apply for settlement there.

Therefore I think your best bet is a settlement visa. She can leave the UK and return as many times and often as she likes during the life of the visa. If she is still in the UK at the end of 2 years then she can apply for indefinite leave to remain and henceforth come and go as she pleases. If you decide during the life of the visa that you don't wish to remain in the UK then she is free to leave at any time.

Some useful links.

Guidance - Husbands, wives and partners (INF 4) (01/06/05)

Guidance - Family members (INF 6) (19/04/05)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks a lot,

I eventually got through to the UKVisa advice line and they suggested that I could apply for the moment to get a Visitor Visa and then if we decide later to stay in the UK she would have to return to Thailand to get the settlement visa.

They assured me there would be no impact to initialy getting the Visitor Visa.

There did seem to be some impact to applying for settlement and then not staying in the UK for te majority of the 2 years?! I didn't press them on this.

My wife has land and property in her name in Thailand, so that was also a factor in making it easy to get a visitor visa.

They also suggested me writing a letter saying that I had opportunities in several countries and that the UK was just one possibility for long term stay.

The fact that I have stayed in 10 countries in 10 years perhaps gives some idea of how long we would be likely to stay anyway.

[GU22]

There did seem to be some impact to applying for settlement and then not staying in the UK for te majority of the 2 years?! I didn't press them on this.

The idea of a settlement visa is to settle. The visa runs for 2 years and at the end of that time you apply for indefinite leave to remain. Although there is no actual rule on how much of the 2 years you need to be in the UK to qualify for ILR, obviously you have to show that the intention is to live in the UK long term. Therefore if you are out of the UK for the majority of the 2 years then applying for ILR may be difficult.

From what you have said the embassy seem to be suggesting a visit visa, but remember this will only allow your wife to remain in the UK for a maximum of six months. Visit visas are multi entry, so she will be able to come and go during that period. At the end of the 6 months she will need to return to Thailand and apply for another visa. Another visit visa may be difficult to obtain, from Section 4 of IMMIGRATION DIRECTORATES' INSTRUCTIONS - August 2004 (pdf)

FREQUENCY AND DURATION OF VISITS

There is no restriction on the number of visits a person may make to the United Kingdom nor any requirement that a specified time must elapse between successive visits. The fact that a person has made a series of visits with only brief intervals between them would not, in the absence of any other relevant factors, constitute sufficient ground for refusal.

It is reasonable, however, for the immigration officer to consider the stated purpose of the visit in the light of the length of time that has elapsed since previous visits. A visitor should not, for example, normally spend more than 6 out of any 12 months in this country (but see Section 3 of this chapter in the case of visitors for private medical treatment).

I guess it depends on how long you intend to be in the UK. So maybe apply for a visit visa initially and then, if necessary, she can return to Thailand at the end of the 6 months and apply for settlement

[charles]

If you want to go quickly, you need to consider the possibility of interviews too. I think waiting time for both settlement and visitors visa interviews is into November now. Not sure which kind of visa, if any, is "less likely" to require an interview. I'm guessing a visitors visa IF your documentation is in good order and you are married, have kids etc, although I could very well be wrong.

Edited July 19, 2005 by charles

[the scouser]

If settlement is not currently your intention, I would apply for a visit visa for your wife. At the end of the 6 months you should then have a better idea of where you will be and can then address the situation accordingly.

Visit applicants are not always interviewed. If the supporting documentation and circumstances lead the visa officer to believe that the visa should be issued, then it's possible to get it the same day (or the next). However, this facility will cease when the administration of the visa service is outsourced in September.

If you go to work in another European Union country, your wife should qualify for a family permit for that country which is issued free and with minimum fuss. This is because as you are British you are entitled to work in any EU/EEA country and to have your immediate dependants accompany you. Likewise, you having worked in an EU/EEA country, you wife would then qualify for a family permit to enter the UK which would obviate the need to apply for a settlement visa.

Scouse.

[phuketsiam]

Scouse,

I'm planning to return to UK, now in Cyprus visiting my Mum, my Thai wife and Thai/British child is with us, the Child (age 4 this month) has Thai and British passports. as per your statement "Likewise, you having worked in an EU/EEA country, you wife would then qualify for a family permit to enter the UK which would obviate the need to apply for a settlement visa.

" does this mean my wife would automatically qualify for a family visa if I get a job in the UK.

Thanks for your advice

[GU22]

Likewise, you having worked in an EU/EEA country, you wife would then qualify for a family permit to enter the UK which would obviate the need to apply for a settlement visa.

Are you sure about this, Scouse?

A friend of mine with a Thai wife has been living and working in Germany for some years. When he married his wife she got an EU/EEA family permit to live with him in Germany. They now want to come to the UK and he has been told by the British embassy that as he is a British citizen his wife does not qualify to live in the UK with an EU/EEA family permit but she needs to apply for a settlement visa (although the embassy said that given their circumstances they can see no reason why it would not be granted).

The explanation being that as he is a British citizen the assumption is they will stay in the UK permanently, but if he were the citizen of another EU/EEA country the assumption is that they would eventually return to that country.

This is all based on hearsay, so some sort of official clarification would be very handy if you know of an appropriate link.

Edited July 19, 2005 by GU22

[manjara]

Hi,

We went to the embassy today to apply for a Visitor Visa. We got it without interview, although the embassy official looked very closely at our marriage certificate and asked me questions about why I wasn't applying for a settlement visa. I just said that I wasn't sure where we would end up living so there was no point applying just now. Perhaps the fact that I don't have a job in the UK actually helped, as it means I have nothing to keep me there.

He stressed that my wife MUST return to Thailand to go through the settlement process within the six months validity, and any attempt to do it while in the UK would be viewed as serious bad form!

From my point of view I'm delighted and although it means definitely getting another ticket from Thailand back to Europe, we would probably have done it anyway, even if we didn't HAVE to.

Thanks for all the advice.

/Paul

[Vulture]

Just a last thought for you. If you do find you wish to later go for the settlement visa you can initially apply by post from UK prior to returning to Bangkok and waiting for interview time.

[the scouser]

Phuket Siam,

If you are a Brit who has been exercising treaty rights in Cyprus, then your wife should qualify for a family permit to join you in the UK.

GU22,

Many moons ago there was a test case (Surinder Singh) which determined that a British citizen exercising his treaty rights in another EU/EEA country could be considered an EU/EEA national for the purposes of obtaining entry to the UK for dependants. I would wager that the embassy/consulate in Germany from which your friend has sought advice haven't read their DSPs in a while. Here's a little snippet:-

"A British national who is working in another member state of the EEA is exercising a Treaty Right there. When he/she intends to return to the UK to work or to settle in a self-sufficient capacity, the non-EEA spouse and any other non-EEA family members may claim a Treaty Right to accompany him/her, or join them if the British National has already returned to the UK. They may do so and remain in the UK with the British national under Community Law rather than the Immigration Rules. The Home Office does not consider that Part II (11) of the Regulations is applicable to non-EEA nationals coming to the UK for a visit, whether or not they are accompanying the British national. In such circumstances, visit visas must be obtained (where necessary) in accordance with the Immigration Rules.

Section 7 (1) of the 1988 Immigration Act enables non-EEA family members of British nationals in Surinder Singh - type cases to be treated as persons exercising an enforceable Community right with regard to admission to the UK."

For the full details click here. (para 21.6 refers.)

Scouse.

[GU22]

Thanks, Scouse. I will pass that link on.

[phuketsiam]

Thanks Scouse, we have only been here less than 2 months, my wife is on a tourist type visa (max 3 months) , but immigration says if she wants to stay longer she can, so its worth bearing in mind

Thanks again