Pigs 101 (A Start)

[NeverSure]

The missing factor is not the ability to grow the crops, corn and soy same as anywhere, it is the amount of land and availability of water. Most village farms are small, less than 2 hectares. There simply is no room.

To mix feed materials on farm (purchased grains etc..) is not cost effective enough.

Again, your logic is sound, just not applicable here.

OK, Then if I was deciding for myself, I wouldn't raise the pigs for market if the cost of feed eats up the profit. I would be happy to raise them and some chickens for household groceries to get the best quality, but that's it. BTW we never could buy eggs or chicken or pork in a store as good as what we raised. Still can't. We didn't care about the cost of quality feed if it produced really good meat and eggs for the table. That was a small thing.

Up to you, kap.

Edited February 10, 2013 by NeverSure

[IsaanAussie]

One thing we havent spoken of is the pig/pork prices in comparison here. I don't dispute your logic, but the live price for pigs here is higher than the retail pork price in the USA. The industry is different as are the cost models.

[NeverSure]

One thing we havent spoken of is the pig/pork prices in comparison here. I don't dispute your logic, but the live price for pigs here is higher than the retail pork price in the USA. The industry is different as are the cost models.

OK, perhaps I misunderstood. I believed that what was being said was that feed prices were too high to make a profit. I didn't think it mattered what the prices were but rather what the relative prices were. If I could make a profit on the higher pork prices by buying feed, I sure would. If I couldn't I wouldn't do it.

I love to raise animals and have tried and tried to think of what I could raise on my property here in the US and there is nothing. By the time I paid for fencing and other equipment for shelter and feed and water etc., It just won't work.

My land as they say in these parts is "steeper than a cow's face." I bought it for a view and that's all I get out of it unless I was willing to kill wild game which I'm not. I used to, and would if I needed the meat, but I'd rather look at deer and elk and wild turkeys and ducks and geese than to eat them. I'm not at all against hunting, but if I went hunting it wouldn't be on my property. It would be on government land. I looked out my windows this morning and was greeted by three deer.

Off topic, but here's a pic out my back door.

[IsaanAussie]

I think all small farmers are in the same boat globally. Even the large corporate farmers need a reasonable number of us dwarfs alive but that does mean they have to do anything but keep us "Bare Foot and Pregnant". As you said, it is up to us, we are here because we want to be...

[CHRISTIANa9]

I believe you need 4 plots of land of same size for free ranch as it requires 2 season of crops to take the nutrients out. That's the practice of some farms in down under.

Are you talking about crop rotation and/or fallow land for soil health? If so, that's why we had wheat and alfalfa. Alfalfa is a legume with deep roots and it fixes nitrogen in soil. Someone said that there's a cousin crop grown in Thailand? Alfalfa is rich animal feed. It's expensive, top quality hay and great pasture.

Then when you plow alfalfa under and plant wheat which is a grass, it's good to go.

I am referring to taking the nutrients out of the system after a few cycle of rearing pigs on the same plot of land which should be 2 cycle. So it's like one year with pigs on and one year with pigs off, crops only. Not sure about the alfalfa but sounds interesting.

[NeverSure]

Alfalfa

Alfalfa hay

Vetch (Legume)

Hogs will eat alfalfa just fine. They can also be put out to pasture on grass. So yes, you could rotate crops and yes, the alfalfa replenishes the nitrogen in the soil for the grass. Since you don't need hay for winter much, unless maybe flood or something, you could let them graze both.

What I don't know is if hogs will grow fast enough on just those two things without some grain. I know that molasses is a common ingredient for hogs. So is whey from making cheese.

I really know little about raising hogs. We had them for the table only, and bought feed. I don't know, if you rotated grass and alfalfa, growing both at the same time, what you would need for supplements. I just don't.

[Khonwan]

Hi NeverSure

I’ve enjoyed your posts here – your cattle operation and that you described for swine was my eventual aim but in learning to walk before learning to run I re-evaluated the business here and found it not practical for me here in Thailand for a good many reasons.

Finishing pigs in a similar way to cattle is not economically viable for the general wholesale market. As IA says, the meat quality will always, in my opinion, be sub-standard though still acceptable for the small local retail market. I’ve never eaten local pork fed simply on available farm produce that could compare with the quality my wife and I produced; all the villagers agreed though they still didn’t want to pay much of a premium, if any, for the better quality.

I have a fair bit of experience mixing my own feed for 160 head of cattle I had prior to switching to pig growing. Mixing cattle-feed from your own crops plus cheap supplements is very easy. Pig-feed (and other non-ruminant feed) is much more demanding in terms of the “protein quality”, which involves a good understanding of essential amino acids and their ratio of one to another. In fact, for that reason, I never supplemented my pig-feed with farm produce since that would throw the required balance out – in consequence, I attained perfect food conversion rates (FCR) using commercial feed only (and following the weight-related feed-type manufacturer guidelines) and pigs with good genes. It was my intention to eventually make my own feed after dipping my toe in growing 123 pigs on commercial feed but my experience of the middlemen (well described by some here as the “sharks”), the sharp practices of the big boys, the useless government agriculture district officers, and deplorable government policies all caused me to get out. I make much better profit margins in crop farming and with virtually no risk to my capital.

I still miss farming livestock but I like the surety of profit better.

Rgds

Khonwan

[NeverSure]

Great post, Khonwan.

I repeat, I've never studied growing hogs, only bought feeder pigs and commercial feed for the table.

When I studied agriculture, one thing stuck in my mind. The type and location of the land should drive the decisions, not the desire to do a particular thing with it.

Another that really stuck is the concept of "new wealth." It doesn't imply "wealthy," just new assets brought into the economy. Whether someone is pumping oil from the ground, or adding value by making plastic from it, or planting a crop and harvesting it, he is bringing new wealth into the economy and more important, into his economy.

So the eternal question is: "What is the highest and best use of this land to create the most new wealth without harming the land?"

[slapout]

Never sure made a statement that many people seem to overlook/ignore, to paraphase,. " ther location. type of the land should be the driving force not what the individual wants personally'

Location, determines weather condition, water avaliability, seasons, soil type, etc thus the crops which will you will get the most out of for the least, most economical, investment. You can modifiy your land somewhat, such as building a pond for livestock water during the dry, but try stocking that same pond with fish to sale at a profit will be an exercise in how to go bankrupt.

When you take the size of Thailand, the climate from north to south, throw in the seasonal rainfall, areas, it will somewhat reduce your options for a potential profitable crop potential. Probably the best approach is to improve what is being done in the past/present while looking at a possible companion crop which will use little space and add to gross income with small expense.

The old folks back home knew to plant turnips with the small grains, planted in the fall, thus 2 crops, different times, both editable and salable. Same with planting corn and then adding climbing beans, pumpkin, watermelon, etc.There are lots of possibilities in crops and even livestock, but you need to do the research bases on what has the potential of working, not what you want/like to work.

Edited February 10, 2013 by slapout

[IsaanAussie]

I agree that researching the "fit" of any part of a farming enterprise is a mandatory part of preparing to farm. I spent 4 years doing just that before we moved here. Through the wonder of hindsight, I wish I had spend part of that time researching human nature. Still the remedial classes I have sat through over the last year or so have let me catch up.

Getting a combination of livestock and crops working here is easy enough, just follow the standard village pattern.(Or else!) Try anything different and you have to contend with more than just the environmental conditions. Beware the tall poppy syndrome and the petty jealousy of individuals.

The last pages of this topic contain some quality advice to which I add, but remember this is Thailand and local rules apply.

[IsaanAussie]

Who says you cannot train humans to clean pig pens properly. You just have to show them! Edited February 10, 2013 by IsaanAussie

[NeverSure]

I certainly agree that I would go broke trying to farm in Thailand. If the prices and the weather didn't bite me, the culture would. I have no doubt. Additionally, the price of land is so high right now that I can't see a decent ROI but maybe I'm missing something.

I didn't mention that I was taught that my time is money. For instance, if I could teach English and make 30k b per month, then quitting teaching to farm is costing me 30k b up front. That's an expense, so my time working the farm is an expense.

One thing about figuring out the highest and best use of the farm land is that it will require less time to farm. You won't be fighting it, but rather going with the flow. I have a neighbor who is a doctor. He's a radiologist. His hobby is raising cows and he has ten head. He has ideal land for it so it takes little time. A vet looks after the health of the animals, a neighbor boy feeds them, and he has his hay "custom cut" meaning he hires it done. He still makes money on the cows, and right now he isn't selling because prices are low. But given a 20 year period, he will make a good profit on his cows.

BTW, at least in the Western US, all cattle are cows in case you wonder about my terminology. We have "cowboys" and not "steer boys" or "calf boys" or "bull boys." Well, maybe out of the bunch I'm a bull boy, LOL. So when I look out and see a herd of cattle, they are "cows." They might also be "cattle."

So, in the part of our land that was somewhat rugged and rocky, nature provided feed with no input from man. No chemicals, no irrigating - nothing but keeping up the fences and watering troughs. New wealth came out of the ground that only cattle could do the work of harvesting and converting into something marketable - beef. Yes it was sparse and it took several acres per cow, but it was the best use.

Speaking of sparse, yes it's called "bunchgrass" and the cows find it just fine. We have a joke that the cows had to graze at 40 miles per hour just to get enough to eat haha.

Still, nature and cows did almost all of the labor, and the money came at the end.

Western cattle land, bunchgrass.

[slapout]

As this is a pig/porker topic, where feed, shelter, and. care of pigs has been and is being kicked around. Free ranging of pigs was mentioned, but pnly briefly, , it may be possible to sport the free range idea by poleing the younger oinkers. This may be limited by the standard of help avaliable in your area, but worth considering.

[revar]

Neversure, one thing you might nor be aware of is that as a foreigner you cannot own any land. And for profitable cropfarmong you will need 100+ rai. A lot of capital all in your wifes name on which you don'thave any claim in case of a divorce.

Also a foreigner living on thailand has to have a regular minimum income. But most professions are closed to us. you can't be a driver, woodworker, salesman, accountant etc.

So there are only a few options like teaching, managing a shop or farming. actually not farming but only managing the farm. So those without a pension often teach or farm. teaching pays better but I like being my own boss. And for a good pig farm you don't need that much land so its easier to achieve than a large crop farm.

And if it was all about money we wouldn't have left oir comfortable western jobs/lives for an unsure future in los. But we love to live here and if me can earn enough to do that we are happy.

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[NeverSure]

Neversure, one thing you might nor be aware of is that as a foreigner you cannot own any land. And for profitable cropfarmong you will need 100+ rai. A lot of capital all in your wifes name on which you don'thave any claim in case of a divorce.

Good post. I'm well aware of this and have said many times I'd never buy real estate in LOS. But I do know at least two guys who married a woman who owns a farm that he didn't have to pay for.

Also a foreigner living on thailand has to have a regular minimum income. But most professions are closed to us. you can't be a driver, woodworker, salesman, accountant etc.

Good. Yes, I'm well aware of the income/bank deposit/or combination rules for a retirement visa in addition to an age of 50. I'm also aware of the impossible work permit rules. When I get to LOS next year I don't plan to work, but I'm willing if something permissible falls into my lap other than teaching.

So there are only a few options like teaching, managing a shop or farming. actually not farming but only managing the farm. So those without a pension often teach or farm. teaching pays better but I like being my own boss. And for a good pig farm you don't need that much land so its easier to achieve than a large crop farm.

I really hear you about being your own boss. After growing up on a ranch I went into banking. I did the whole deal from traveling for two years as an auditor to working in head office to managing a branch. I hated every second of it and quit after six years. I've never worked for anyone since.

And if it was all about money we wouldn't have left oir comfortable western jobs/lives for an unsure future in los. But we love to live here and if me can earn enough to do that we are happy.

I hear you on that too. I'm super comfortable where I am, and I still work on call for the company I sold and let's just say it pays well. Very well. I could easily stay right here but I want to move to Thailand, and I want to move to Isaan.

Fun stuff, guys. Having something to look forward to, and having some adventure is the spice of life. I really admire all of you. I know a lot of guys have lost their homes and farms through divorce and it's sad. Ain't gonna happen to this green pea, thanks to all of you.

Thumbs up to all of you.

[IsaanAussie]

OK, now thats settled, can I ask that we get this Pinned Topic back "on topic"? Pigs, gentlemen, pigs....

We have just had the Chinese New Year celebrations, how did everyone go? Any increase in prices or even volumes?

How did you go Changers? Did the guy turn up for your pigs?

[COXYATCITY]

OK, now thats settled, can I ask that we get this Pinned Topic back "on topic"? Pigs, gentlemen, pigs....

We have just had the Chinese New Year celebrations, how did everyone go? Any increase in prices or even volumes?

How did you go Changers? Did the guy turn up for your pigs?

no good for me I.A.. 3 .sharks were offering 55 Baht,so we did not bother selling as we did not need the cash so quick,but now i need the cash to pay feed bills 2 of them are offering 52-53 baht,but the other is offering 58 baht because he has credit for a few days so he will come tomorrow(fingers crossed).sold 3 pigs last week for a wedding 60 baht..

there is a new betagro farm (600 pigs) a few km,s between me and Changers,hopefully this will crumble soon as the owner(some governtment worker) and the vet for betagro are crooked,pigs are dying (not) the vet signs for them,then they are sold out the back door,my wife is still in Surin,and told me there had been a few funerals locally with which her dad was helping, and i asked if we had sold any pigs ,she said no because of this farm,people look at a pig,and are offering 2500-3000 for big pigs,all the locals are talking about this farm,and the meat shop at the side of the road has been quiet due to these funerals.

1 good thing that has happened is my feed shop has picked a some new customers,Surin Techno is 1,they are trying to change fully to mine but are only buying a couple of numbers off me because i can not give them credit for long enough(over a 14 days),so they are still using betagro as well which give them a couple of months :-( ..but there 1st order was about 370 bags. :-)

i see swine Thailand has remained the same price this week as last east 67.50, i would love to get close to this price as most others.

also now i am short on piglets,the last few couple of months has not been to good for me with sows giving birth 2-3 a month. 1 was pure Landrace but only 3 piglets 1 died 1 day after birth and 1 yesterday,squashed :-(,but we have sold most of the piglets to some of the locals who use our food,and we have been buying them in a little,but the supply for piglets in my area has dried up unless i want to pay big money from a farm in Kessang, Buriram,quality pigs but 2 expensive

cheers Ian

[revar]

prices topped ar 60. Now its back to 58, but I will still get 60. Last years low pig prices has forced most local small farmers to stop or switch to ducks. So There are almost now customers for my feed shop left. So I now only stock whaty

my own pigs can eat. The good part is that sharks have to buy my pigs or else pay higher cp prices so I still can get a decent price.

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[CHRISTIANa9]

Hi NeverSure

I . Pig-feed (and other non-ruminant feed) is much more demanding in terms of the “protein quality”, which involves a good understanding of essential amino acids and their ratio of one to another. In fact, for that reason, I never supplemented my pig-feed with farm produce since that would throw the required balance out – in consequence, I attained perfect food conversion rates (FCR) using commercial feed only (and following the weight-related feed-type manufacturer guidelines) and pigs with good genes. It was my intention to eventually make my own feed after dipping my toe in growing 123 pigs on commercial feed but my experience of the middlemen (well described by some here as the “sharks”), the sharp practices of the big boys, the useless government agriculture district officers, and deplorable government policies all caused me to get out. I make much better profit margins in crop farming and with virtually no risk to my capital.

I still miss farming livestock but I like the surety of profit better.

Rgds

Khonwan

Hi mine sharing what's your FCR is like? 3.8 to 1?

[IsaanAussie]

FCR 2.6 for growout pigs.

[humblefalang]

Good morning guys,

last few posts here very interesting,

Free range fellas yes it is possible don't be frighten, all it needs is a smart farm/farmer,

Heat maybe not so much of a problem/look at the small farmer, theyr farms are hot as hell, pigs are ok,

about a model i haven't worked out yet but here is some reading some basic ideas and requirment,

Keeping_pigs_outdoors.pdf

[Khonwan]

Hi NeverSure

I . Pig-feed (and other non-ruminant feed) is much more demanding in terms of the “protein quality”, which involves a good understanding of essential amino acids and their ratio of one to another. In fact, for that reason, I never supplemented my pig-feed with farm produce since that would throw the required balance out – in consequence, I attained perfect food conversion rates (FCR) using commercial feed only (and following the weight-related feed-type manufacturer guidelines) and pigs with good genes. It was my intention to eventually make my own feed after dipping my toe in growing 123 pigs on commercial feed but my experience of the middlemen (well described by some here as the “sharks”), the sharp practices of the big boys, the useless government agriculture district officers, and deplorable government policies all caused me to get out. I make much better profit margins in crop farming and with virtually no risk to my capital.

I still miss farming livestock but I like the surety of profit better.

Rgds

Khonwan

Hi mine sharing what's your FCR is like? 3.8 to 1?

2.1something (less than 2.2).

I fed 1 bag 20% protein, 2 bags 18%, 2 bags 16%, 2 bags 15%. 7 bags in total (as per feed producers’ recommendations); all bags are 30kg so 210kg in total. Do your research and you’ll find that this rate is not exceptional: 2.16% (pigs 7kg-104kg) represents top 10% (in UK, I think) according to BPEX (http://www.thepigsite.com/articles/4052/countering-the-effect-of-feed-price-escalation); 2.44 is average.

3.8 is really very poor; are you feeding only available farm produce?

Rgds

Khonwan

[NeverSure]

Hi NeverSure

I . Pig-feed (and other non-ruminant feed) is much more demanding in terms of the “protein quality”, which involves a good understanding of essential amino acids and their ratio of one to another. In fact, for that reason, I never supplemented my pig-feed with farm produce since that would throw the required balance out – in consequence, I attained perfect food conversion rates (FCR) using commercial feed only (and following the weight-related feed-type manufacturer guidelines) and pigs with good genes. It was my intention to eventually make my own feed after dipping my toe in growing 123 pigs on commercial feed but my experience of the middlemen (well described by some here as the “sharks”), the sharp practices of the big boys, the useless government agriculture district officers, and deplorable government policies all caused me to get out. I make much better profit margins in crop farming and with virtually no risk to my capital.

I still miss farming livestock but I like the surety of profit better.

Rgds

Khonwan

Hi mine sharing what's your FCR is like? 3.8 to 1?

2.1something (less than 2.2).

I fed 1 bag 20% protein, 2 bags 18%, 2 bags 16%, 2 bags 15%. 7 bags in total (as per feed producers’ recommendations); all bags are 30kg so 210kg in total. Do your research and you’ll find that this rate is not exceptional: 2.16% (pigs 7kg-104kg) represents top 10% (in UK, I think) according to BPEX (http://www.thepigsit...rice-escalation); 2.44 is average.

3.8 is really very poor; are you feeding only available farm produce?

Rgds

Khonwan

What it doesn't mention, while it mentions major droughts in major feed production areas, is the cycle. Feed prices go up so people get out of hog farming or at least greatly reduce herds. Reducing herds drives down prices as more hogs go to market to avoid feeding them.

My experience again, is that meat and feed prices move in opposite directions for that reason. As soon as the herds are greatly reduced by flooding the market with them, then there is a shortage of meat. About that time the drought ends and there is a surplus of feed.

Questions please?

1. Does LOS grow most of the feed the commercial sellers have? If not, the wholesalers are paying a premium for it.

2. Has there been any weather related issues to damage the main feed crops in Thailand, even in some significant locations? Flood? Typhoon? Drought? I think there has been drought in S. Isaan??

If the cost of feed is driven by a shortage of feed as it is now internationally with droughts in the US and Argentina and other places, then animals will be marketed in an over supply driving prices down.

If any of the above is true, this will self-correct in your favor if you hang in there. There will be a shortage of pigs, and a surplus of feed when the drought ends. The shortage of pigs could come well before the drought ends. When the drought ends there won't be enough livestock left to use all of the feed and the feed prices will drop. There won't be enough livestock for market meat and the price will rise.

You win about half the time if this is the case. But you win big in the cycle of high meat and low feed to make up for this season you're in.

Hang in there.

[COXYATCITY]

Hi NeverSure

I . Pig-feed (and other non-ruminant feed) is much more demanding in terms of the “protein quality”, which involves a good understanding of essential amino acids and their ratio of one to another. In fact, for that reason, I never supplemented my pig-feed with farm produce since that would throw the required balance out – in consequence, I attained perfect food conversion rates (FCR) using commercial feed only (and following the weight-related feed-type manufacturer guidelines) and pigs with good genes. It was my intention to eventually make my own feed after dipping my toe in growing 123 pigs on commercial feed but my experience of the middlemen (well described by some here as the “sharks”), the sharp practices of the big boys, the useless government agriculture district officers, and deplorable government policies all caused me to get out. I make much better profit margins in crop farming and with virtually no risk to my capital.

I still miss farming livestock but I like the surety of profit better.

Rgds

Khonwan

Hi mine sharing what's your FCR is like? 3.8 to 1?

2.1something (less than 2.2).

I fed 1 bag 20% protein, 2 bags 18%, 2 bags 16%, 2 bags 15%. 7 bags in total (as per feed producers’ recommendations); all bags are 30kg so 210kg in total. Do your research and you’ll find that this rate is not exceptional: 2.16% (pigs 7kg-104kg) represents top 10% (in UK, I think) according to BPEX (http://www.thepigsit...rice-escalation); 2.44 is average.

3.8 is really very poor; are you feeding only available farm produce?

Rgds

Khonwan

What it doesn't mention, while it mentions major droughts in major feed production areas, is the cycle. Feed prices go up so people get out of hog farming or at least greatly reduce herds. Reducing herds drives down prices as more hogs go to market to avoid feeding them.

My experience again, is that meat and feed prices move in opposite directions for that reason. As soon as the herds are greatly reduced by flooding the market with them, then there is a shortage of meat. About that time the drought ends and there is a surplus of feed.

Questions please?

1. Does LOS grow most of the feed the commercial sellers have? If not, the wholesalers are paying a premium for it.

2. Has there been any weather related issues to damage the main feed crops in Thailand, even in some significant locations? Flood? Typhoon? Drought? I think there has been drought in S. Isaan??

If the cost of feed is driven by a shortage of feed as it is now internationally with droughts in the US and Argentina and other places, then animals will be marketed in an over supply driving prices down.

If any of the above is true, this will self-correct in your favor if you hang in there. There will be a shortage of pigs, and a surplus of feed when the drought ends. The shortage of pigs could come well before the drought ends. When the drought ends there won't be enough livestock left to use all of the feed and the feed prices will drop. There won't be enough livestock for market meat and the price will rise.

You win about half the time if this is the case. But you win big in the cycle of high meat and low feed to make up for this season you're in.

Hang in there.

hi,Never sure,i do not think the price of feed will ever go down ,but it may stabilize ,

regards Ian.

[Khonwan]

NeverSure, I hadn’t read the rest of the article I linked to – I was only interested in finding information that showed I’m not exaggerating my FCR (which I’ve been posting for 6 years now) since I suspect that more than a few here find it literally incredible.

I only grew pigs for one year, and that was 6/7 years ago, but I don’t recall pig-feed here ever going down. I’m also not sure there has ever been a significant shortage after the boom & bust cycles, which I think have only ever really affected the small producers. The major feed-producers-come-pig-farmers-come-pork-product-producers, such as CP (Charoen Pokphand Group), always appear to control the market. Normal market rules simply don’t apply in countries like Thailand. Forget anti-monopoly or anti-price-fixing laws here. The big boys pay the politicians, the politicians pay the voters, the big boys stuff the voters, the voters say, “That’s life”.

Rgds

Khonwan

[NeverSure]

NeverSure, I hadn’t read the rest of the article I linked to – I was only interested in finding information that showed I’m not exaggerating my FCR (which I’ve been posting for 6 years now) since I suspect that more than a few here find it literally incredible.

I only grew pigs for one year, and that was 6/7 years ago, but I don’t recall pig-feed here ever going down. I’m also not sure there has ever been a significant shortage after the boom & bust cycles, which I think have only ever really affected the small producers. The major feed-producers-come-pig-farmers-come-pork-product-producers, such as CP (Charoen Pokphand Group), always appear to control the market. Normal market rules simply don’t apply in countries like Thailand. Forget anti-monopoly or anti-price-fixing laws here. The big boys pay the politicians, the politicians pay the voters, the big boys stuff the voters, the voters say, “That’s life”.

Rgds

Khonwan

I'm sure you're right. It just amazes me that even the big boys can control the price of hogs because hogs are a live commodity and every day you keep them past their sell-by date, you have to pay to feed them. So you'd think they'd need to turn them. You'd think that if they have that much control, that hog prices would be high. I can see them controlling the price of feed, but not hogs.

Maybe they are depressing the price of hogs to drive the small guy out of business? Then you'd think there'd come a day when they'd want those prices to go back up.

I don't know. TIT.

[revar]

FCR between 2.0 and 2.25 depending on what type of pig I want to produce and starting size of piglet. for high quality meat pigs FCR is around 2.2.

For more fat pigs I can achieve 2.0 but I have less customers for these. I use the same feed types for all. The differences are in how much of each type you feed and when to switch to the next (lower protein) type. But its not only about protein, amino acids are very (important) and differ in differnd brands/types of feed. I also use some additives to correct imbalances for runts, sick pigs or others who do not grow as fast as the rest. Also cleaning, temperature control(hose), stress prevention and area/pig are very important to get these FCR figures.

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[jompa67]

FCR between 2.0 and 2.25 depending on what type of pig I want to produce and starting size of piglet. for high quality meat pigs FCR is around 2.2.

For more fat pigs I can achieve 2.0 but I have less customers for these. I use the same feed types for all. The differences are in how much of each type you feed and when to switch to the next (lower protein) type. But its not only about protein, amino acids are very (important) and differ in differnd brands/types of feed. I also use some additives to correct imbalances for runts, sick pigs or others who do not grow as fast as the rest. Also cleaning, temperature control(hose), stress prevention and area/pig are very important to get these FCR figures.

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Please specify what additives u use. I use Zinc-oxide for piglets and chromium + selenium from 12 kg and up.

Edited February 12, 2013 by jompa67

[Khonwan]

NeverSure, maybe I’m just overly cynical …but then again. Many pig farmers were devastated around January 2007. Australian pork started to flood the Thai market under a FTA concluded by Thaksin in 2006. The market was additionally flooded by poor grade pigs that had been introduced into villages all over the country around the same time five months before under a ridiculous scheme by Thaksin. There was no such advance market intelligence available to we small farmers – it was too late by the time we realized what was happening.

I still had around 100 pigs at, or approaching, market weight. I used to buy my feed by the truckload straight from the factory at heavily discounted prices (compared to retail prices). 34 baht per kg was my breakeven point (ignoring my and my wife’s own labour costs). Farmgate prices were collapsing but my feed producer (and their competitors) raised their prices. Worse than that, the bas***s started to send butchered pork straight from their own farms to the local markets where they then sold directly to the public at 3kg for 100 baht.

I had to cut my losses and sell the majority of my pigs (by now up to 130kg since buyers couldn’t be found, but averaging 100kg) at only 22 baht per kg. My feedlots have now been razed to the ground and have cassava growing in its place.

Rgds

Khonwan

[NeverSure]

NeverSure, maybe I’m just overly cynical …but then again. Many pig farmers were devastated around January 2007. Australian pork started to flood the Thai market under a FTA concluded by Thaksin in 2006. The market was additionally flooded by poor grade pigs that had been introduced into villages all over the country around the same time five months before under a ridiculous scheme by Thaksin. There was no such advance market intelligence available to we small farmers – it was too late by the time we realized what was happening.

I still had around 100 pigs at, or approaching, market weight. I used to buy my feed by the truckload straight from the factory at heavily discounted prices (compared to retail prices). 34 baht per kg was my breakeven point (ignoring my and my wife’s own labour costs). Farmgate prices were collapsing but my feed producer (and their competitors) raised their prices. Worse than that, the bas***s started to send butchered pork straight from their own farms to the local markets where they then sold directly to the public at 3kg for 100 baht.

I had to cut my losses and sell the majority of my pigs (by now up to 130kg since buyers couldn’t be found, but averaging 100kg) at only 22 baht per kg. My feedlots have now been razed to the ground and have cassava growing in its place.

Rgds

Khonwan

That's sad.

No, I don't understand the Thai way so I'd have to stay out. I don't walk into casinos and put my money down when I know everything is rigged to favor the house.

What I don't understand is this. If there is insider control, and if the Big Boys make the rules, how and why did they allow prices to get so low before they sold?

I have seen schemes where prices were driven down temporarily to clear the field of the small guys and to take their money. But usually when that happens, the big boys unload their whatever before that happens. In fact their unloading at the higher price can be what deliberately starts prices down. But they are out, waiting to get back in at the low price, and without the competition of the bygone small guys.

So, I'll have to just go on my merry way staying out of farming in LOS. I never want to play another man's game when he makes and changes the rules.

Peace.