Getting A Diamond Evaluated

[annabel]

Can anybody recommend a good reliable and honest place to get a diamond ring evaluated and also possibly buy it.???

[elektrified]

I can't recommend anywhere but I would not think of selling it here as certainly you would end up giving it away for a fraction of its value. Maybe try eBay? Just a suggestion.

Edited September 30, 2010 by elektrified

[Ta22]

what the carat .

[BWPattaya]

What is the ring mage of? Gold? Silver? White gold? Platinum?

If it is not Thai gold I doubt you will find anyone interested in the ring. The diamond may be more attractive to them, I don't know wbaout that, I know that many shops will not buy any gaold from abroad.

[Changian]

If the diamond is large and blue then best not to flash it around.

[Johpa]

I doubt you can get a diamond properly graded in Chiang Mai. Most stones these days are already graded, have a laser engraved serial number, and should come with a grading certificate and a guarantee by the seller that the grading is honest. In other words, why are you thinking of buying a diamond in Thailand?!?

[jsflynn603]

Go to the larger jewelry shops and inquire about whether or not any in the staff has a GIA or AGS Diamond Grading Certificate. Ask to see it. If so, unless they are trying to scam you, you will get a proper appraisal in writing, and with a chart showing internal flaws plotted out. I would imagine in Thailand it would cost about 250TB.

Often AGS grading is one level below that of GIA. This means that if the diamond is a F color (range D-L, beyond that becomes fancy yellow) by GIA standards, it'll be rated a E color by AGS standards (one grade better) The same goes with internal flaws. A stone rated VVS by AGS might be graded as a VVSII (one grade lower by GIA standards). I only trust GIA, but AGS is good also. Then you have exact weight, a color grade, a "internal flaw" rating IF (Internally flawless) to I3 (Included visible with naked eye). Any one holding a GIA or AGS grading cert should be professional to give you an estimated "retail value" (what to expect to buy it from a reputable jewelry store) but they will be hesitant to offer a "purchase price" which could be 1/3 to 1/2 of the retail value (unless you are talking about a stone that is 1+ carat, IF, D color which was about $37,000 the stone a year or so ago. In that case a sell value might be $32,000. If it's a low quality stone such as an G color, I2 (visible internal flaws) most jewelry stores will not make an offer.

Beware of imitations and beware of synthetics. Imitations like Cubic Zirconia and Moissanite are not-distinguishable by the naked eye. A jeweler would look for inclusions and use a thermal conductivity tester and or a spectrometer. Synthetics are true diamonds only made in a lab.

GIA = Gemological Institute of America

AGS = American Gemological Society

In Europe there is IGI (International Gem Institute) and another, but I don't know how they compare.

Good luck.

[sarahsbloke]

Be careful though, I have heard several stories of Thai shops swapping out the diamond and returning glass.

[DiamondKing]

It is not easy to BUY or Value a Diamond unless you know what you are looking for. There are so many things to consider most people don't know what the quality of the ring they are wearing is but in reality what does it matter unless you want to sell it which most people don't.

There are many factors that affect the value of a diamond specifically the 4 C's Clarity, Cut, Carat, Color

Clarity is how clear the diamond is

FL: Completely flawless IF: Internally flawless; only external flaws are present, which can be removed by further polishing the stone

VVS1 - VVS2: Only an expert can detect flaws with a 10X microscope, if an expert can see a flaw from the top of the diamond, it is a VVS2. Otherwise, if an expert can only detect flaws when viewing the bottom of the stone, then it is a VVS1

VS1 - VS2: flaws can be seen with a 10X microscope, but it takes a long time to see them (more than about 10 seconds)

SI1 - SI2: You can easily see flaws or inclusions with a 10X microscope but not with the Naked eye

I1 - I3: You can see flaws with the naked eye. Consider avoiding I2-I3 diamonds.

You then Have the

CUT

This refers to the reflectivness of the Diamond basically how much it sparkles and reflects light. Often mistaken for the shape of the Diamond the Cut really has nothing to do with the shape of the Diamond.

There are 5 gradings for the Cut of a Diamond

Ideal

Premium

Very Good

Good

Fair & Poor

COLOR

Most people are not aware that Diamonds come in all sorts of natural Colors including: COLORLESS, WHITE, BLUE,RED, CHAMPAGNE, BLACK, BROWN etc. Most people are familiar with just the Colorless and WHITE ones which is the most popular and generally the Colorless one that will be worth the most money if all things remain equal.

The scale for the color for Diamonds is D-Z with D E F being the best and rated Colorless the it heads up the scale as tints of color are seen

The only way to correctly gauge the color of a stone is by using a set of reference stones and when gauging the color its best to have the stone in a loose form rather than in a setting.

Once you get to below the Z rating you get whats called FANCY COLOR DIAMONDS which are becoming popular due to the huge variety of colors the rating chart above is used for Colorless White Diamonds.

CARAT

Often people think that CARAT refers to the size of a diamond, but in reality a carat is actually the standard unit of measurement that defines the weight of a diamond. One carat is equivalent to 200 milligrams. Carat sizes are also expressed as "points", with a one carat diamond equaling 100 points, a one-half carat diamond being 50 points, a three-quarter carat diamond being 75 points, and so on.

Just because it says it a one carat Diamond does not neccesaarily mean its worth a lot of money, it really depends on all the factors above.

As you can see valueing a Diamond is not a cut and dry affair its complicated process with many factors to consider as is if you were going to buy a diamond the same would apply.

Now just to clear up a couple of incorrect comments

Thailand actually has a HUGE DIAMOND MARKET with dealers mainly located in Bangkok and is considered one of the top 5 polishing locations in the world.

As for certifications a GIA certification which is available in Bangkok prices are based on the weight of the stone and start at

B 1695.00 for a stone between .15 points and .22 points up to

B3200 for 1 Carat Stone

PLUS additional Fees such as engraving fee

Please note GIA only certifies LOOSE STONES

Do you need certification ? really depends but remember when you buy a certified stone its CONSIDERABLY MORE MONEY as the jewleer will add the price of the cert and some onto the final price. If you have a trustworthy seller they can also value it from experience,

As for the OPs question another thing to consider is the value of the ring mount material, contrary to what anyone says its worth money and is included in any valuation.

Without more information on the ring its hard to comment further do you have any paperwork on the ring ?? if you do please post it and I can at least give you a ball part if you have any of the 4 C's information

Hope this helps

DK

[DiamondKing]

I doubt you can get a diamond properly graded in Chiang Mai. Most stones these days are already graded, have a laser engraved serial number, and should come with a grading certificate and a guarantee by the seller that the grading is honest. In other words, why are you thinking of buying a diamond in Thailand?!?

You are correct if you are speaking from a retail buyers point of view, and of course all those things you mention go towards bumping the price of that diamond up. If you are purchasing the Diamonds from a Wholesale source this is not the case, and most buy NON certified diamonds and grade them themselves from there experience.

If a customer wishes to get it certified by one of the recognized agencys then its no problem they pay the price of the certification plus an additional amount added on by the jeweler which bumps the price of the Diamond even more.

Certification is mainly there for customer confidence however by learning just a few little things about Diamonds you can learn enough to purchase non certified Diamonds at fabulous prices.

There is certainly nothing wrong with buying Diamonds in Thailand if you know what you are doing, Thailand is a a huge diamond dealer in the world market and there are some great deals to be found.

DK

[macsurf]

Thanks for that great information DK.

Btw would you be willing to offer some of the best places to find some of these great deals? I know Chantaburi is a big gem hub but not sure about diamonds.

Understandable if you didn't want to disclose,... just thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

[annabel]

It is 0.71 carat round brilliant diamond. It is mounted on 5 attached rings; 2 of Indian 22 Carat gold combined with 3 of white gold which they refer to as Platinum ... and crowned with 22 carat gold 6 prongs

what the carat .

[DiamondKing]

It is 0.71 carat round brilliant diamond. It is mounted on 5 attached rings; 2 of Indian 22 Carat gold combined with 3 of white gold which they refer to as Platinum ... and crowned with 22 carat gold 6 prongs

what the carat .

Hi Annabel

With regards to your Appraisal these are normally issued for retail replacement and for insurance purposes". What this means is that the value stated is what the insurance company bases their premiums on and how much it would cost for you to buy a similar piece of jewelry from a retail jewelry store also, this price is typically inflated over the actual purchase price as many insurance companies will only pay 70-90% of this amount. Additionally, this price is also inflated to take into account the possibility of the prices of precious metals and diamonds increasing in value at some time in the future.

Since your ring is no longer the same ring I will have to break it down and give you some estimates on the Diamonds and the setting seperately

Stone 1 is a very nice desirable Diamond and good Quality and you could expect to pay for a loose stone of that quality in the range of 2750-3500 US the higher price for a certified Diamond.

Stone 2 and 3 are what's called accent stones and sold by the carat price based on size and color clarity which is then divided by 100 points and then multiplied by the number of points in your stones to give you a price

Stone 2 has 0.17 points SI1 and the price would be roughly $217.00

Stone 3 is slightly better quality with a VS1 and the price for this one is $279.00

So just your stones are worth in the region of $4000.00 US if you wanted to replace them

If you were to go and get an appraisal it would of course be for more as I mentioned in the first paragraph.

As for your setting the value of the gold is determined by purity and weight. You already said the purity, is 22K, which means 22/24, or 91.67% pure gold. The current spot price of gold is $1318.00 / troy ounce so if you divide it by 31.1 grams, ajust for 91.67 gold content your looking at $38.00 a gram for your ring setting. (EDIT just reread and realized you have 5 rings only 2 of 22K so the above statement is not accurate)

If you wanted to calculate the value just weigh your ring and multiply by $38.00 the weight of the diamond is less than 0.2 gram so it won't matter in your calculation.

Please note those are retail prices and as for selling your ring your unlikely to get the retail price, but you could always think of selling the setting and the Diamond seperate,

Hope this helps

DK

Edited October 2, 2010 by DiamondKing

[Ta22]

my advice is unless you really in needs . there is really no profit or gain selling it in thailand as reselling value of diamond and jewelery fetch very low return .

unless is pure or 99.99 gold . other metal do not really fetch good price .

[annabel]

Hi Dk,

First of all THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to review the estimate and give me such a detailled and clear reply .... VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! Sorry if I confused you ... it is not 5 rings,,, it is only one with 5 bands... the outer 2 are 22 K gold and the inner 3 are what they call Platinum in India but I don't know the difference between White Gold and Platinum ,,, as far as I was concerned till now white gold WAS platinum which is more expensive than gold ??

I understand what you are saying about "Appraisals" and yes, that makes sense that they would be inflated .... but my only one last question is ... This estimate was done 12 years ago and haven't diamonds increased in value since then... ?? Or am I in Lala Land and that these are again only stories told to you when you buy one....? That diamonds are an investment and will be worth a lot more years down the road..?? Guess that was the Yellow Brick Road

Cheers and thanks again

Annabel

PS>> What about the other ring I sent u a pic of ..?? I don't have an estimate on that one but it is also a nice piece .. Would just like your first impression on it IF YOU HAVE TIME ...

It is 0.71 carat round brilliant diamond. It is mounted on 5 attached rings; 2 of Indian 22 Carat gold combined with 3 of white gold which they refer to as Platinum ... and crowned with 22 carat gold 6 prongs

what the carat .

Hi Annabel

With regards to your Appraisal these are normally issued for retail replacement and for insurance purposes". What this means is that the value stated is what the insurance company bases their premiums on and how much it would cost for you to buy a similar piece of jewelry from a retail jewelry store also, this price is typically inflated over the actual purchase price as many insurance companies will only pay 70-90% of this amount. Additionally, this price is also inflated to take into account the possibility of the prices of precious metals and diamonds increasing in value at some time in the future.

Since your ring is no longer the same ring I will have to break it down and give you some estimates on the Diamonds and the setting seperately

Stone 1 is a very nice desirable Diamond and good Quality and you could expect to pay for a loose stone of that quality in the range of 2750-3500 US the higher price for a certified Diamond.

Stone 2 and 3 are what's called accent stones and sold by the carat price based on size and color clarity which is then divided by 100 points and then multiplied by the number of points in your stones to give you a price

Stone 2 has 0.17 points SI1 and the price would be roughly $217.00

Stone 3 is slightly better quality with a VS1 and the price for this one is $279.00

So just your stones are worth in the region of $4000.00 US if you wanted to replace them

If you were to go and get an appraisal it would of course be for more as I mentioned in the first paragraph.

As for your setting the value of the gold is determined by purity and weight. You already said the purity, is 22K, which means 22/24, or 91.67% pure gold. The current spot price of gold is $1318.00 / troy ounce so if you divide it by 31.1 grams, ajust for 91.67 gold content your looking at $38.00 a gram for your ring setting. (EDIT just reread and realized you have 5 rings only 2 of 22K so the above statement is not accurate)

If you wanted to calculate the value just weigh your ring and multiply by $38.00 the weight of the diamond is less than 0.2 gram so it won't matter in your calculation.

Please note those are retail prices and as for selling your ring your unlikely to get the retail price, but you could always think of selling the setting and the Diamond seperate,

Hope this helps

DK

[DiamondKing]

Hi Annabel

Let me start by clearing up the Platinum white gold question, Platinum and White Gold are 2 different metals, I believe that the use of the word Platinum is misleading since the content of Platinum in a white gold ring is normally very small if any at all.

Platinum used to be up to 5-6 times more valuable than gold however with the high price of gold these days it is only a couple of hundred dollars difference at this time.

Many people assume white gold is mined WHITE, however Gold is Gold and all other gold colors are produced by mixing Gold with other metals to produce different colors of Gold, the latest craze is PURPLE Gold which has recently been invented by a Singaporian. White gold is produced by mixing different metals with natural Gold like copper, silver, Palladium, platinum, Nickel and zinc . Generally Copper and Silver are the most popular to make white gold.

In general white gold is not more expensive than yellow gold, value is simply the weight of the percentage of real gold in the mixture ie 14/24, 18/24, 22/24

The first and obvious way of having an indication of the metal is the stamp if it is Platinum it will be stamped PT950 or PT850 or PT if it has no stamp the next way for an indication is the scratch test. If your ring is easily scratched then it is white gold (be sure to scratch in a place not visable) if it does not scratch it is most likely platinum. Another more risky way is the heat test. (I am not saying to do this) Carefully heat the ring until its red hot, then let it cool and you will be able tell by the way it looks what metal it is. If it is dirty and dark then it is White Gold (the dirt easily cleans off) if however it is still bright and shiny then it is Platinum.

The Best way to tell the difference is by a chemical test or an electronic tester which a jeweler can do.

Diamonds

The truth is when buying a Diamond it is very rarely an investment unless you are buying a truly rare Diamond in the Millions of dollars. Diamonds do not generally appreciate in value (unless it is very rare) although when someone is selling you a Diamond they play on the mistruth that it is indeed an investment that will grow over time and this is just not true.

This may surprise people, but Diamonds are not rare the market is carefully controlled to only release enough Diamonds each year to carefully ensure that the market is not flooded hense keeping the value of Diamonds constant. The hoard of 99% of the worlds Diamonds and Diamond Mines are held by De Beers and their monopoly strictly controls the market and they only have 3 or so Auctions a year when they release Diamond lots to the market.

There are of course RARE Diamonds but these are exactly that rare and cost Millions.

When I meet with a couple or a Guy wanting to buy his intended a Diamond ring I tell him plain and straight this is NOT an investment it is an emotional RETAIL purchase only, I ask, what is your budget and encourage him to go shopping in the stores to look for a comparable ring and note the prices and stone quality I then work to find him the largest best value stone for his money and generally save him up to 30% to 50% off while providing him with a much larger stone, it really does not matter as long as the Diamond looks beautiful and there are no easy visable inclusions to the naked eye. Let’s face it have you EVER looked at your Diamond under a Loupe? I am sure you have not

Your diamond looks beautiful and shiny to the naked eye etc, but under a loupe it has a chip and also a crack in it, if you look at your estimate you will see it says it has a slight feather this is a term used by the industry to refer to a crack, it also says it has a slight cloud, what that means is you have a few crystals close together that can’t be seen through.

As you can see it really does not matter to the Lay person because I am sure your ring looks great in reality but within the industry all those indicate the real value of the Diamond.

With regards to your second ring it is very difficult to say as you have made this yourself with lots of different Diamonds collected over time, the 2 which came from the old ring I was able to comment since you had some information on the stones on your original appraisal.

What I can say to you is those 2 diamonds add up to .35 points and go toward the total carat weight of the ring with 13 additional stones even if those are only .10 points each stone that is still a 1.45 Ct ring, again to the lay person this sounds great a 1.5 carat Diamond ring but the reality is a 1 carat single stone is worth many times more than 10 x .10 carat stones.

Without being able to see the ring first hand and measure each diamond and study it under a loupe it is hard for me to comment on it.

As you can see the Diamond business is a very complex industry and the best thing to do when planning to buy a Diamond ring is to do a little research and then find someone who knows the industry and is prepared to educate you and get you the best Diamond for your money.

As for it being an investment, not true unless you have a few million to spend for a truly rare stone.

DK

[annabel]

Hi Dk,

Once again thank you sooo much for taking the time to explain everthing in so much detail .... you are yourself a Gem !! and a lot of what you said I really already expected ...

Also thanks for the explanation on the difference between Platinum and white gold ...And the testing .. I just tried the "Heat test" on my ring and although my eyebrows do not exist anymore, I found out it may just be Platinum .. Sorry, just joking... I tried the scratch method and well good result ... no scratch ...

As for Chiang Mai, I decided today to go to 2 of the biggest Gem/Jewelry factories in San Kampeng area to see if they would give me an estimate / evaluation on both rings ... Surprise!... Nope!! ... For one, All of their diamonds are imported to begin with (that's what they both told me ) and they are sent to the Chiang Mai Univesty Lab for evaluation/ classification before they are mounted into a ring...

And this is the certificate they give to their customers who buy a diamond ring... IF they ask for one and this is for the diamond only ... They told me that I would have to dismount the diamonds and then send them to the lab for an estimate and evaluation .... And that NOWHERE in Thailand can you get a diamond evaluated if it is mounted on a ring and nor can they give you an evaluation of the ring metal composition ...nowhere in Thailand !

So well , ok Ebay here i come ... Well so I thought till I checked their site and what is there and what people are selling and at what price and what the auction bids are and so on and it is so mind boggling... .ummm Not for me ...

And as other posters have said doesn't seem like Thailand is a good place to sell a diamond ring ...

So anyway ...Thanks again a million times for you help advice and knowledge ... I think you should change your TV name from Diamond King to "Gem"

Warm Rgds

Annabel

Hi Annabel

Let me start by clearing up the Platinum white gold question, Platinum and White Gold are 2 different metals, I believe that the use of the word Platinum is misleading since the content of Platinum in a white gold ring is normally very small if any at all.

Platinum used to be up to 5-6 times more valuable than gold however with the high price of gold these days it is only a couple of hundred dollars difference at this time.

Many people assume white gold is mined WHITE, however Gold is Gold and all other gold colors are produced by mixing Gold with other metals to produce different colors of Gold, the latest craze is PURPLE Gold which has recently been invented by a Singaporian. White gold is produced by mixing different metals with natural Gold like copper, silver, Palladium, platinum, Nickel and zinc . Generally Copper and Silver are the most popular to make white gold.

In general white gold is not more expensive than yellow gold, value is simply the weight of the percentage of real gold in the mixture ie 14/24, 18/24, 22/24

The first and obvious way of having an indication of the metal is the stamp if it is Platinum it will be stamped PT950 or PT850 or PT if it has no stamp the next way for an indication is the scratch test. If your ring is easily scratched then it is white gold (be sure to scratch in a place not visable) if it does not scratch it is most likely platinum. Another more risky way is the heat test. (I am not saying to do this) Carefully heat the ring until its red hot, then let it cool and you will be able tell by the way it looks what metal it is. If it is dirty and dark then it is White Gold (the dirt easily cleans off) if however it is still bright and shiny then it is Platinum.

The Best way to tell the difference is by a chemical test or an electronic tester which a jeweler can do.

Diamonds

The truth is when buying a Diamond it is very rarely an investment unless you are buying a truly rare Diamond in the Millions of dollars. Diamonds do not generally appreciate in value (unless it is very rare) although when someone is selling you a Diamond they play on the mistruth that it is indeed an investment that will grow over time and this is just not true.

This may surprise people, but Diamonds are not rare the market is carefully controlled to only release enough Diamonds each year to carefully ensure that the market is not flooded hense keeping the value of Diamonds constant. The hoard of 99% of the worlds Diamonds and Diamond Mines are held by De Beers and their monopoly strictly controls the market and they only have 3 or so Auctions a year when they release Diamond lots to the market.

There are of course RARE Diamonds but these are exactly that rare and cost Millions.

When I meet with a couple or a Guy wanting to buy his intended a Diamond ring I tell him plain and straight this is NOT an investment it is an emotional RETAIL purchase only, I ask, what is your budget and encourage him to go shopping in the stores to look for a comparable ring and note the prices and stone quality I then work to find him the largest best value stone for his money and generally save him up to 30% to 50% off while providing him with a much larger stone, it really does not matter as long as the Diamond looks beautiful and there are no easy visable inclusions to the naked eye. Let's face it have you EVER looked at your Diamond under a Loupe? I am sure you have not

Your diamond looks beautiful and shiny to the naked eye etc, but under a loupe it has a chip and also a crack in it, if you look at your estimate you will see it says it has a slight feather this is a term used by the industry to refer to a crack, it also says it has a slight cloud, what that means is you have a few crystals close together that can't be seen through.

As you can see it really does not matter to the Lay person because I am sure your ring looks great in reality but within the industry all those indicate the real value of the Diamond.

With regards to your second ring it is very difficult to say as you have made this yourself with lots of different Diamonds collected over time, the 2 which came from the old ring I was able to comment since you had some information on the stones on your original appraisal.

What I can say to you is those 2 diamonds add up to .35 points and go toward the total carat weight of the ring with 13 additional stones even if those are only .10 points each stone that is still a 1.45 Ct ring, again to the lay person this sounds great a 1.5 carat Diamond ring but the reality is a 1 carat single stone is worth many times more than 10 x .10 carat stones.

Without being able to see the ring first hand and measure each diamond and study it under a loupe it is hard for me to comment on it.

As you can see the Diamond business is a very complex industry and the best thing to do when planning to buy a Diamond ring is to do a little research and then find someone who knows the industry and is prepared to educate you and get you the best Diamond for your money.

As for it being an investment, not true unless you have a few million to spend for a truly rare stone.

DK

[DiamondKing]

Hmmm Annabel

Well this is Thailand and its does not surprise me the lack of help you received today.

It is true than the majority of Diamonds are imported into Thailand and this is because they imported in there rough state and are cut and Polished in Bangkok and then sold on to jewelers across Thailand and Abroad.

As for no one certifying a Diamond in a setting I would say that is fairly accurate as most stones would need to be loose to give a proper valuation and estimate, however I was a little taken aback that they send their stones to CMU for classification and this is again in my opinion simply because of the cost of getting them certificates from a recognized agency such as GIA (Gemological Institute of America) or AIGS Asian Institute of Gemological Sciences) both located in Bangkok.

So it sounds like the certificate they issue is basically something they come up with themselves and really does not help the purchaser as you have to take their word for it.

As for testing the metal, this is really a simple process that most any decent jeweler can conduct and would have a chemical test kits and a simple test would easily determine the metal content.

I may just get a test kit for any future requests as it is so simple.

Thailand is a great place to buy a Diamond at a great price (with the right help) but for selling not so good, especially if you are trying to get retail price or close to it.

Good luck with selling

DK

[jayinoz]

I grabbed some Rough red ruby stones from Burma- they are a very rich red... Straight out of the mines- I did not ask the guy how he smuggled them out of the mine he works in- as I may NOT have wished to touch them- Lol.

Plus grabbed some polished ones but the rough ones excite me more. For my money the whole lot was worth the $200 gamble. They quite large in their rough stone size. I presume it is cheaper to get this valued in Thailand than in the developed world. Then sell in homeland.

Anyone have any thoughts on how I could get a proper valuation on it. I guess when back in Aussie would be the best place to offload the rough and polished stones.

Anyone done anything like this- if they are valued quite high will I have troubles with customs? Any places in CMai that can give me a certificate. Cheers Jay

:jap:

Edited October 5, 2010 by jayinoz