'Cash For Thai University Degrees' Racket To Be Exposed : Activist

[hhiser]

Well at least they do not waste their professors time. Let them buy their degree, it seems a little more honest than the students who show up to class every day, physically. Take all the requisite tests, without actually trying to pass them. Copy all the homework, from the few people in class that actually care. If they assignment is a thesis or a essay they will just blatantly plagiarize. The instructor of course has to correct all of this, which takes a lot of time. So why not just sell the degree, the results are the same.

[mark45y]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

I wouldn't get too carried away there. I chart of accounts is a pretty simple request. I would expect anyone who has been to a business school of any kind to understand the term. How you want it set up is secondary. Use a computer or do it long hand in any event a chart of accounts is something available in any business. If an MBA didn't understand the term they are not an MBA in any normal sense of the word.

I have an MBA.

I do not understand what a chart of accounts is supposed to mean.

Based upon my employment criteria, employer and peer reviews I am judged competent to perform my job and receive a large salary with performance bonuses. And yet, I had no idea what was meant by the reference to a chart of accounts. Sorry,

Me too, after Physics in 1974 I graduated from University of Amsterdam in Business Economics ( Drs ) as evening study after 8 years in 1990, but still.. with only this question, you would get the same reply.

Do you know what a chart is? Do you know what an account is? OK, I realize this is difficult for a person with an advanced degree but put them together. What have you got? A chart of accounts. Hard eh?

[EyesWideOpen]

Ahaa !!  For years I always wondered why 6 year old Cambodian street kids spoke much better English than the Thai university graduates that I used to work with. Now I know......   

[Ricardo]

Do you know what a chart is? Do you know what an account is? OK, I realize this is difficult for a person with an advanced degree but put them together. What have you got? A chart of accounts. Hard eh?

To me, and clearly many others, a chart is a maritime map, or a way of presenting information visually, such as a bar-chart or pie-chart. It's not that we don't know what a list of accounts is, dear chap, simply that we're honest enough to admit that we don't recognise 'Chart of accounts' as a term we're familiar with. Possibly this might also be true for a typical Thai business-graduate ?

Not hard at all !

[jcbangkok]

Ahaa !! For years I always wondered why 6 year old Cambodian street kids spoke much better English than the Thai university graduates that I used to work with. Now I know......

Or maybe they have just practiced their lines very well like the girls at the bar ... "what is your name? " "where are you from?" "how long are you here?"

[mark45y]

And then astonished, if for many foreigners ( farangs) a Thai bacherlor degree is seen as a " high school" certificate. NO MORE !

My own experience since 1993 with Thai graduates: so dramatic low education, their diploma's are worth nothing as their knowledge is dramatic low. That's why so many go for a 1-2 years to a foreign Uni, mostly to studty English. But.. graduated .. or only stayed 2 years abroad ?

Really: Amazing Thailand !

Although I "might" not go as far as saying it is "seen as" but in some cases my understanding is this is absolutely correct. As I understand it, working as a clerk in a store in the mall or possibly even at the 7-11 requires a college degree. But on the other hand, there does seem to be some respect given to those who finish high school as opposed to just the education the government pays for which I think is through the 8th grade.

I also wanted to point out that there are a number of private schools that are great. I know some Thai youngsters and teens that go to them and they speak English very well. Much better than those in the US having and continuing to take classes to learn another language at this same age. I also have a step-daughter who goes to BKK University and she does very well.

Bottom line is Thailand's eduction is improving and faces the same problems other countries face but being a developing nation, we see it on a much larger scale. The other point is that students CAN learn and can MATCH the education level of similar countries in similar grades but they can also skate by much easier. I cannot help but wonder if this partially has to do with the "saving face" attitude that is common in Thailand. I mean this must make it hard to tell somebody who has paid for an education that they have wasted their money and time because they are not getting a diploma ... same with correcting tests or putting them on the spot in a classroom.

What is funny is I can tell you the first days at BKK Univ. were much about what could be tolerated or looked down upon in terms of dress and what could not be. Appearance is everything.

I have met approximately 83 women who work at 7/11's in Thailand. None of them had a University degree. I don't live anywhere near Bangkok but I assume my sample is representative of the majority of 7/11's. Let me know if anyone has any real experience to the contrary. That would explain why the cashiers have to count the change at least 4 times to arrive at 23 or other complicated double digit numbers. Must be MBA's. At least I think they are including addition in the MBA curriculum now. Nest year they may begin to add complicated accounting vocabulary words like "chart" and "account"

Appearance is everything. You are right. How tight and how short the skirt should be must cover a couple of weeks and where to put the paper clip belt holder and the tie tack thing.

Also how tight you can stretch your blouse without it breaking is another month of physics classes.

Don't forget running in 4 inch high heels is not an easy task and takes practice.

[mark45y]

Do you know what a chart is? Do you know what an account is? OK, I realize this is difficult for a person with an advanced degree but put them together. What have you got? A chart of accounts. Hard eh?

To me, and clearly many others, a chart is a maritime map, or a way of presenting information visually, such as a bar-chart or pie-chart. It's not that we don't know what a list of accounts is, dear chap, simply that we're honest enough to admit that we don't recognise 'Chart of accounts' as a term we're familiar with. Possibly this might also be true for a typical Thai business-graduate ?

Not hard at all !

Old chap, you are getting close. Sure it can look like a bar chart or a pie chart. If you make it in Excel or a program like that, pie charts and bar charts are one use of a chart of accounts.

If you Google, “Chart of accounts” in quotation marks you get you get about 414,000 results (0.11 seconds) all referring to a “Chart of Accounts.” Hardly a little used expression world wide.

[Foggy Bottom]

I had to read the OP twice to find the newsworthiness of it

Then I realised it said "Khon Kaen" not Khao San Road

[jcbangkok]

I had to read the OP twice to find the newsworthiness of it

Then I realised it said "Khon Kaen" not Khao San Road

Do those fake IDs and Diplomas really pass for being real sold on Khao San Road? The shops tend to look like they sell novelty stuff you can buy in the internet ... not going to fool anybody.

I also remember reading a story about somebody going to jail for presenting a fake diploma trying to get a job in Thailand. You can get arrested for anything in the US but in reality, you only wouldn't get the job if you did that in the USA.

Edited October 8, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Longtooth]

For those wishing to help the school, this is on NorthEastern University's Campus Outreach website:

You can pray for the NEU team and ministry by choosing the "Prayer Requests" link on the navigation menu.

http://thailand.camp...university-neu-

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalist farang staff there at the university, such as:

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission. Marc's campus focus is on the Northeastern University campus in Khon Kaen. The staff team at NEU spend the majority of their time building friendships with students in order to share the gospel with them, lead them to Christ, establish them in their faith and train them to be multiplying disciples. God has begun a good work at NEU that is only the beginning and foundation of what is to come.

This sounds like an excellent program, as long as your diploma will read: "B.A. : Specialist in Christian Evangelizing."

[matchless51]

100,000 baht, for a Uni degree, cheap !, do they sell A grade electricians qualifications ?, i'd rather earn some real money,

[ronwparker]

I am a reired English businessman with an Economics Degree and MBA and would need an expaination of Chart of Accounts.

I think it is an Americanism which I certainly would not citicize a Thai for not knowing.What arrogance!!

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

I wouldn't get too carried away there. I chart of accounts is a pretty simple request. I would expect anyone who has been to a business school of any kind to understand the term. How you want it set up is secondary. Use a computer or do it long hand in any event a chart of accounts is something available in any business. If an MBA didn't understand the term they are not an MBA in any normal sense of the word.

I have an MBA.

I do not understand what a chart of accounts is supposed to mean.

Based upon my employment criteria, employer and peer reviews I am judged competent to perform my job and receive a large salary with performance bonuses. And yet, I had no idea what was meant by the reference to a chart of accounts. Sorry,

I have had a lot of businesses and worked for a lot of businesses over the past 40 years. Restaurants, hospitals, manufacturing, oil and gas supply and maintenance and many more. They had one thing in common. They all had a chart of accounts. If a person does not recognize the term a one second search on google will rectify the lack of knowledge.

Google. A list of all account names and numbers used in a company's general ledger.

I assume you understand what a general ledger is.

[way2muchcoffee]

Old chap, you are getting close. Sure it can look like a bar chart or a pie chart. If you make it in Excel or a program like that, pie charts and bar charts are one use of a chart of accounts.

If you Google, “Chart of accounts” in quotation marks you get you get about 414,000 results (0.11 seconds) all referring to a “Chart of Accounts.” Hardly a little used expression world wide.

While it may be a common expression world wide, when you look at google images for 'chart of accounts' in the first 50 images there you will see that the only commonality amongst them is the name of the companies. The rest of the information widely varies. This suggests that there is no real universal definition or interpretation of the term 'chart of accounts'.

[jcbangkok]

Old chap, you are getting close. Sure it can look like a bar chart or a pie chart. If you make it in Excel or a program like that, pie charts and bar charts are one use of a chart of accounts.

If you Google, "Chart of accounts" in quotation marks you get you get about 414,000 results (0.11 seconds) all referring to a "Chart of Accounts." Hardly a little used expression world wide.

While it may be a common expression world wide, when you look at google images for 'chart of accounts' in the first 50 images there you will see that the only commonality amongst them is the name of the companies. The rest of the information widely varies. This suggests that there is no real universal definition or interpretation of the term 'chart of accounts'.

Being a business owner in the US for near 7-years and running another company for about 5-years ... I have never heard the words 'chart of accounts" used by anyone, including accountants, as any kind of standard term. A chart is simply a visual display of information and in this day and age usually refers to some kind of graphic while on the other hand, we know what an account is but are we referring to vendor accounts or customer accounts. These typically would not be charted together since one type of account deals in payables and the other receivables.

If my accountant asked me for a "chart of accounts" I would have to ask a number of questions first before producing such a thing. Accounts by revenues or by sales or expenses ... certainly just a "chart of accounts" without any further information would simply mean a list of account in my book, Maybe you could chart it by how many accounts begin with a certain letter?!?!?

[ableguy]

I have met 5 people, 2 of which I know personally, who have Masters in English, and not a single one of them can sit down a write a simple paragraph describing what they did today.

I teach English in my home for free to those who truly want to learn. I currently have 8 "students". A successful business man, his wife and their two teen daughters from 9-10, a woman lawyer and her niece from 4-5, and another business woman and her daughter from 5-6. I have developed work books that start with very basic conversational English, which are written using English, phonetic Thai and actual Thai script. All of the children, aged 13, 12, 9, tell me they learn better, and faster, with the way I teach than they do in school.

When my wife's boss at New York Life Insurance saw a copy of one of my work books, he asked her if I could do the same to teach their agents, so now I'm working on one geared more towards helping them in that particular field, and will have it completed by the end of the month.

While memorization is part of the learning process, after the first week, the last 10 minutes of each lesson are devoted to talking to them in English, and getting them to reply to my question, also in English, from the things they have learned. This makes them actually THINK about their answers, and the correct way to reply.

I try to make it fun, with lots of laughter and joking, and as far away from the "Thai education system" as possible, and you know what? It's working great.

I strongly encourage others to do the same thing with those around them. Do it for fun and do it for free. Trust me, you'll feel good about it at the end of the day.

If anyone is interested, and wants to see what I use as an example to start their own teaching, pm me with email address.

All of the children, aged 13, 12, 9, tell you that they learn better, and faster, with the way I teach than they do in school. You missing one point there are (my childrens school) 30 students a classroom while you teaching almost one on one, can't compair.

Second your students who get this English lessons from you for free, never going to tell you (The teacher) that they learn F*&^CK all with you, big change that your students say the same to there English teacher at school.

Your students are not a reliable source.

WOW SUCH NEGATIVITY

[mark45y]

Tosser and wanke_r. Offhand I would say the average American or Canadian or Mexican would not know what a tosser and/or wanke_r was.

If they had half a brain they would Google it. If they looked in Google image they might not get the correct impression.

My point was, is there something about English MBA that prevents them from being able to Google and understand the results?

Do they teach business students at Oxford how to use Excel? If so there are chart of accounts templates available in Excel.

Speaking of Oxford, “The basic coding requirements of the General Ledger (GL) is known as the 'Chart of Accounts'. These codes, comprising five segment types (cost centre, natural accounts code, activity, source of funds and organisation) enable departments to charge expenditure and income to the GL accurately.”

The above is a quote from, “Finance Division: Financial Planning and Reporting at the University of Oxford

Cambridge, “The system is widely referred to as CUFS (Cambridge University Finance ..... This can also be referred to as the Chart of Accounts.

I think you are having a bit of fun with the poor American MBA's.

Oxford and Cambridge both use the term “Chart of Accounts” and you insistence on not being able to understand information from Google and/or Excel are a bit much.

You are having a go at us, eh? Making fun of us as it were. Should a person engaging in such behavior be referred to as a tosser or a wanke_r?

Fess up, tell the truth. The closest you got to an MBA was dating a chick who worked at the 7/11 in Bangkok.

[tomyummer]

For those wishing to help the school, this is on NorthEastern University's Campus Outreach website:

You can pray for the NEU team and ministry by choosing the “Prayer Requests” link on the navigation menu.

http://thailand.campusoutreach.org/northeastern-university-neu-

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalist farang staff there at the university, such as:

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission. Marc's campus focus is on the Northeastern University campus in Khon Kaen. The staff team at NEU spend the majority of their time building friendships with students in order to share the gospel with them, lead them to Christ, establish them in their faith and train them to be multiplying disciples. God has begun a good work at NEU that is only the beginning and foundation of what is to come.

Very common in the USA,the elite sends their not so smart child to a private University down to the Southern States and a degree is guaranteed. Worked with Bush JR even at a top Univerity I guess father had enough clout

Absolute BS from start of your post to the finish. There are no guaranteed degrees. Bush also flew a jet fighter. I suppose dummies do that as a rule. Or did he hire someone to fly it for him?

Schools in the US are accredited by a number of accrediting institutions. Check the school and the accrediting agency if you have any questions.

I think you may be surprised to know that in many instances it is easier to get into Oxford than Yale where Bush went to school.

I doubt you have the interest but google Oxford vs. Harvard, Yale, Princeton. That should set your anti American brain straight.

George H.W. (senior) flew fighter jets, not George W. (junior). George H.W. had a distinguished record in pretty much everything he did. Not George W. (unless you count the 'distinguished' war tabs). And it's pretty safe to say George W. got into Yale based on his father and grandfather's legacies at Yale and Skull and Bones membership. George W. wasn't much of a student at Phillips Andover either. George H.W. was smart enough to get his son to ride on his coat tails to secure his future. Though not his legacy.

[ableguy]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

I wouldn't get too carried away there. I chart of accounts is a pretty simple request. I would expect anyone who has been to a business school of any kind to understand the term. How you want it set up is secondary. Use a computer or do it long hand in any event a chart of accounts is something available in any business. If an MBA didn't understand the term they are not an MBA in any normal sense of the word.

I have an MBA.

I do not understand what a chart of accounts is supposed to mean.

Based upon my employment criteria, employer and peer reviews I am judged competent to perform my job and receive a large salary with performance bonuses. And yet, I had no idea what was meant by the reference to a chart of accounts. Sorry,

I find that very surprising since it's a fundamental accounting and business element, when did you do your MBA and if you wish to share, where? Perhaps the year of the MBA is the issue here?

WHY DONT YOU GUYS GET A LIFE

[jcbangkok]

From a Google Search ... many different definitions and meanings.

Definitions of chart of accounts on the Web:

• Chart of accounts (COA) is a list of the accounts used by an organization. The list can be numerical, alphabetic, or alpha-numeric. The structure and headings of accounts should assist in consistent posting of transactions. Each nominal ledger account is unique to allow its ledger to be located. ...
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_of_accounts
• a listing of a company's accounts and their corresponding numbers
  www.a-systems.net/accounting-terms.htm
• Defines the financial structure of an organization. University of Alberta: The chart of accounts is comprised of the following eight chartfields; Business Unit, Budget Year, Fund, Department (Deptid), Program, Class, Project and Account. Often referred to as a chartfield string.
  www.finance.ualberta.ca/guide/topics/glossary/index.cfm
• A chart of accounts facilitates recording transactions appropriately.
  www.jmu.edu/budgetmgmt/budgetglossary.shtml
• A list of all the accounts in the company ledger summarized in a systematic manner representing the sequence on financial statements. Accounts are normally divided into five groups: assets, liabilities, owners equity, revenue and expenses
  www.tulsascore.org/downloads/GLOSSARYofFINANCIALTERMSR2.doc
• These are the names you establish for the different categories of assets, liabilities, income and expenses that you want to group transactions. A chart of accounts may include the following: rent, utilities, telephone, cash, dues income, and accounts payable.
  www.massnurses.org/labor-action/labor-education-resources/union-finances/glossary
• The structure, within the accounting system that lists the programs, operating centers, and categories by which the revenues and expenses will be recorded and assigns a number to each line item.
  erc.msh.org/mainpage.cfm
• A list of the accounts of a business and their numbers, arranged according to their order in the ledger.
  www.bookkeeperlist.com/definitionsc.shtml
• lists each account by a name and an identification number; the numbering scheme is designed to identify the type of account.
  www.onlinepayrollguide.com/opg/glossary.html
• The account codes which give structure to the General Ledger. May include nominal codes, expense codes, cost centre codes, project codes
  www.accountspayable.co.uk/resources/glossary.php
• a listing of all the accounts or categories into which business transactions will be classified and recorded. Each account usually has a number. Transactions are coded by this number for manipulation on computers.
  www.tpderet.com/key_accounting.cfm
• A listing of your entire asset, liability, equity, income, cost of sales, expense, other income, and other expense accounts.
  www.jcbookkeeping.com.au/terminologydetails.html
• A coding system used by the performing organization's accounting system to account for the project work.
  pmpbank.googlepages.com/glossary
• Lists all the different types of functions or activities and allocates numbers that then relate to ledger accounts.
  www.allmyknowledge.com/moodle/mod/glossary/view.php

[mark45y]

For those wishing to help the school, this is on NorthEastern University's Campus Outreach website:

You can pray for the NEU team and ministry by choosing the “Prayer Requests” link on the navigation menu.

http://thailand.campusoutreach.org/northeastern-university-neu-

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalist farang staff there at the university, such as:

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission. Marc's campus focus is on the Northeastern University campus in Khon Kaen. The staff team at NEU spend the majority of their time building friendships with students in order to share the gospel with them, lead them to Christ, establish them in their faith and train them to be multiplying disciples. God has begun a good work at NEU that is only the beginning and foundation of what is to come.

Very common in the USA,the elite sends their not so smart child to a private University down to the Southern States and a degree is guaranteed. Worked with Bush JR even at a top Univerity I guess father had enough clout

Absolute BS from start of your post to the finish. There are no guaranteed degrees. Bush also flew a jet fighter. I suppose dummies do that as a rule. Or did he hire someone to fly it for him?

Schools in the US are accredited by a number of accrediting institutions. Check the school and the accrediting agency if you have any questions.

I think you may be surprised to know that in many instances it is easier to get into Oxford than Yale where Bush went to school.

I doubt you have the interest but google Oxford vs. Harvard, Yale, Princeton. That should set your anti American brain straight.

George H.W. (senior) flew fighter jets, not George W. (junior). George H.W. had a distinguished record in pretty much everything he did. Not George W. (unless you count the 'distinguished' war tabs). And it's pretty safe to say George W. got into Yale based on his father and grandfather's legacies at Yale and Skull and Bones membership. George W. wasn't much of a student at Phillips Andover either. George H.W. was smart enough to get his son to ride on his coat tails to secure his future. Though not his legacy.

Sorry old boy but you have it mixed up. Bush senior was in WWII. No jets*. GW Bush flew fighter jets in the 1960's.

Both Bush's went to Yale. No coat tails. Yale is at the same academic standard as Oxford.

Google is your friend. Look it up before you post and people will not think you such a fool.

*Unless you were on the German side.

Edited October 9, 2010 by mark45y

[mca]

Glad to see this thread didn't stray off topic.

[Ricardo]

Do you know what a chart is? Do you know what an account is? OK, I realize this is difficult for a person with an advanced degree but put them together. What have you got? A chart of accounts. Hard eh?

To me, and clearly many others, a chart is a maritime map, or a way of presenting information visually, such as a bar-chart or pie-chart. It's not that we don't know what a list of accounts is, dear chap, simply that we're honest enough to admit that we don't recognise 'Chart of accounts' as a term we're familiar with. Possibly this might also be true for a typical Thai business-graduate ?

Not hard at all !

Old chap, you are getting close. Sure it can look like a bar chart or a pie chart. If you make it in Excel or a program like that, pie charts and bar charts are one use of a chart of accounts.

If you Google, “Chart of accounts” in quotation marks you get you get about 414,000 results (0.11 seconds) all referring to a “Chart of Accounts.” Hardly a little used expression world wide.

The point I would make, which we're gradually reaching agreement on, is that different countries use different terms for the same concept. Any experienced expat-manager learns to tailor the use of terminology to whatever the locals are used to. I would suggest that 'Income' is another common term, with widely-varying meanings, depending on who's using it & where you are.

I didn't say that "Chart of Accounts" was "a little used expression world wide", just that it isn't universally understood or known, as you assume. We're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy. :jap:

Edit to add, a Google-search on the term 'Table of Accounts' gets 64.3 million hits.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Ricardo

[mark45y]

From a Google Search ... many different definitions and meanings.

Definitions of chart of accounts on the Web:

• Chart of accounts (COA) is a list of the accounts used by an organization. The list can be numerical, alphabetic, or alpha-numeric. The structure and headings of accounts should assist in consistent posting of transactions. Each nominal ledger account is unique to allow its ledger to be located. ...
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_of_accounts
• a listing of a company's accounts and their corresponding numbers
  www.a-systems.net/accounting-terms.htm
• Defines the financial structure of an organization. University of Alberta: The chart of accounts is comprised of the following eight chartfields; Business Unit, Budget Year, Fund, Department (Deptid), Program, Class, Project and Account. Often referred to as a chartfield string.
  www.finance.ualberta.ca/guide/topics/glossary/index.cfm
• A chart of accounts facilitates recording transactions appropriately.
  www.jmu.edu/budgetmgmt/budgetglossary.shtml
• A list of all the accounts in the company ledger summarized in a systematic manner representing the sequence on financial statements. Accounts are normally divided into five groups: assets, liabilities, owners equity, revenue and expenses
  www.tulsascore.org/downloads/GLOSSARYofFINANCIALTERMSR2.doc
• These are the names you establish for the different categories of assets, liabilities, income and expenses that you want to group transactions. A chart of accounts may include the following: rent, utilities, telephone, cash, dues income, and accounts payable.
  www.massnurses.org/labor-action/labor-education-resources/union-finances/glossary
• The structure, within the accounting system that lists the programs, operating centers, and categories by which the revenues and expenses will be recorded and assigns a number to each line item.
  erc.msh.org/mainpage.cfm
• A list of the accounts of a business and their numbers, arranged according to their order in the ledger.
  www.bookkeeperlist.com/definitionsc.shtml
• lists each account by a name and an identification number; the numbering scheme is designed to identify the type of account.
  www.onlinepayrollguide.com/opg/glossary.html
• The account codes which give structure to the General Ledger. May include nominal codes, expense codes, cost centre codes, project codes
  www.accountspayable.co.uk/resources/glossary.php
• a listing of all the accounts or categories into which business transactions will be classified and recorded. Each account usually has a number. Transactions are coded by this number for manipulation on computers.
  www.tpderet.com/key_accounting.cfm
• A listing of your entire asset, liability, equity, income, cost of sales, expense, other income, and other expense accounts.
  www.jcbookkeeping.com.au/terminologydetails.html
• A coding system used by the performing organization's accounting system to account for the project work.
  pmpbank.googlepages.com/glossary
• Lists all the different types of functions or activities and allocates numbers that then relate to ledger accounts.
  www.allmyknowledge.com/moodle/mod/glossary/view.php

Different? No, they all say the same thing. Did you even read what you posted?

[mark45y]

Do you know what a chart is? Do you know what an account is? OK, I realize this is difficult for a person with an advanced degree but put them together. What have you got? A chart of accounts. Hard eh?

To me, and clearly many others, a chart is a maritime map, or a way of presenting information visually, such as a bar-chart or pie-chart. It's not that we don't know what a list of accounts is, dear chap, simply that we're honest enough to admit that we don't recognise 'Chart of accounts' as a term we're familiar with. Possibly this might also be true for a typical Thai business-graduate ?

Not hard at all !

Old chap, you are getting close. Sure it can look like a bar chart or a pie chart. If you make it in Excel or a program like that, pie charts and bar charts are one use of a chart of accounts.

If you Google, “Chart of accounts” in quotation marks you get you get about 414,000 results (0.11 seconds) all referring to a “Chart of Accounts.” Hardly a little used expression world wide.

The point I would make, which we're gradually reaching agreement on, is that different countries use different terms for the same concept. Any experienced expat-manager learns to tailor the use of terminology to whatever the locals are used to. I would suggest that 'Income' is another common term, with widely-varying meanings, depending on who's using it & where you are.

I didn't say that "Chart of Accounts" was "a little used expression world wide", just that it isn't universally understood or known, as you assume. We're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy. :jap:

So I called up a friend from Chula (MBA). She told me, "of course everyone knows what is a chart of accounts.

[jcbangkok]

From a Google Search ... many different definitions and meanings.

Definitions of chart of accounts on the Web:

• Chart of accounts (COA) is a list of the accounts used by an organization. The list can be numerical, alphabetic, or alpha-numeric. The structure and headings of accounts should assist in consistent posting of transactions. Each nominal ledger account is unique to allow its ledger to be located. ...
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_of_accounts
• a listing of a company's accounts and their corresponding numbers
  www.a-systems.net/accounting-terms.htm
• Defines the financial structure of an organization. University of Alberta: The chart of accounts is comprised of the following eight chartfields; Business Unit, Budget Year, Fund, Department (Deptid), Program, Class, Project and Account. Often referred to as a chartfield string.
  www.finance.ualberta.ca/guide/topics/glossary/index.cfm
• A chart of accounts facilitates recording transactions appropriately.
  www.jmu.edu/budgetmgmt/budgetglossary.shtml
• A list of all the accounts in the company ledger summarized in a systematic manner representing the sequence on financial statements. Accounts are normally divided into five groups: assets, liabilities, owners equity, revenue and expenses
  www.tulsascore.org/downloads/GLOSSARYofFINANCIALTERMSR2.doc
• These are the names you establish for the different categories of assets, liabilities, income and expenses that you want to group transactions. A chart of accounts may include the following: rent, utilities, telephone, cash, dues income, and accounts payable.
  www.massnurses.org/labor-action/labor-education-resources/union-finances/glossary
• The structure, within the accounting system that lists the programs, operating centers, and categories by which the revenues and expenses will be recorded and assigns a number to each line item.
  erc.msh.org/mainpage.cfm
• A list of the accounts of a business and their numbers, arranged according to their order in the ledger.
  www.bookkeeperlist.com/definitionsc.shtml
• lists each account by a name and an identification number; the numbering scheme is designed to identify the type of account.
  www.onlinepayrollguide.com/opg/glossary.html
• The account codes which give structure to the General Ledger. May include nominal codes, expense codes, cost centre codes, project codes
  www.accountspayable.co.uk/resources/glossary.php
• a listing of all the accounts or categories into which business transactions will be classified and recorded. Each account usually has a number. Transactions are coded by this number for manipulation on computers.
  www.tpderet.com/key_accounting.cfm
• A listing of your entire asset, liability, equity, income, cost of sales, expense, other income, and other expense accounts.
  www.jcbookkeeping.com.au/terminologydetails.html
• A coding system used by the performing organization's accounting system to account for the project work.
  pmpbank.googlepages.com/glossary
• Lists all the different types of functions or activities and allocates numbers that then relate to ledger accounts.
  www.allmyknowledge.com/moodle/mod/glossary/view.php

Different? No, they all say the same thing. Did you even read what you posted?

Actually, some list that the chart should include numerous information & limited info in terms of income and such while others say it is just a list of accounts with the account ID type while other still say it is a listing of your entire asset, liability, equity, income, cost of sales, expense, other income, and other expense accounts.

Edited October 9, 2010 by jcbangkok

[tomyummer]

Very common in the USA,the elite sends their not so smart child to a private University down to the Southern States and a degree is guaranteed. Worked with Bush JR even at a top Univerity I guess father had enough clout

Absolute BS from start of your post to the finish. There are no guaranteed degrees. Bush also flew a jet fighter. I suppose dummies do that as a rule. Or did he hire someone to fly it for him?

Schools in the US are accredited by a number of accrediting institutions. Check the school and the accrediting agency if you have any questions.

I think you may be surprised to know that in many instances it is easier to get into Oxford than Yale where Bush went to school.

I doubt you have the interest but google Oxford vs. Harvard, Yale, Princeton. That should set your anti American brain straight.

George H.W. (senior) flew fighter jets, not George W. (junior). George H.W. had a distinguished record in pretty much everything he did. Not George W. (unless you count the 'distinguished' war tabs). And it's pretty safe to say George W. got into Yale based on his father and grandfather's legacies at Yale and Skull and Bones membership. George W. wasn't much of a student at Phillips Andover either. George H.W. was smart enough to get his son to ride on his coat tails to secure his future. Though not his legacy.

Sorry old boy but you have it mixed up. Bush senior was in WWII. No jets*. GW Bush flew fighter jets in the 1960's.

Both Bush's went to Yale. No coat tails. Yale is at the same academic standard as Oxford.

Google is your friend. Look it up before you post and people will not think you such a fool.

*Unless you were on the German side.

Gee, thanks for the tip and especially thanks to Google!:

On George W's flying record/experience:

http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm

http://archive.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=154

http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/militaryrecord.htm

Oh, and I especially love Google for this doozy from CNN:

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/20/timep.affirm.action.tm/

"...If our President had the slightest sense of irony, he might have paused to ask himself, "Wait a minute. How did I get into Yale?" It wasn't because of any academic achievement: his high school record was ordinary. It wasn't because of his life experience--prosperous family, fancy prep school--which was all too familiar at Yale. It wasn't his SAT scores: 566 verbal and 640 math.

They may not have had an explicit point system at Yale in 1964, but Bush clearly got in because of affirmative action. Affirmative action for the son and grandson of alumni. Affirmative action for a member of a politically influential family. Affirmative action for a boy from a fancy prep school. These forms of affirmative action still go on.

The Wall Street Journal reported last week that Harvard accepts 40% of applicants who are children of alumni but only 11% of applicants generally. And this kind of affirmative action makes the student body less diverse, not more so. George W. Bush, in fact, may be the most spectacular affirmative-action success story of all time. Until 1994, when he was 48 years old and got elected Governor of Texas, his life was almost empty of accomplishments.

Yet bloodlines and connections had put him into Andover, Yale and Harvard Business School, and even finally provided him with a fortune after years of business disappointments. Intelligence, hard work and the other qualities associated with the concept of merit had almost nothing to do with Bush's life and success up to that point..."

Very nice flying record. Maybe better to keep it out of George W's history. Legacies play huge parts in education in the U.S. You still think he got in on his own accord?

However, you're right, George Senior didn't fly jets, my bad. Nonetheless he was a true war hero. Not like his son.

[mark45y]

Tommy runner

I didn't like GW Bush any better than you.

But I don't really think this thread has much to do with him or his father.

GW did fly jets and dummies don't fly jets and live. Yes I know Thai pilots fly jets too and that amazes me.

If you want to bash Bush or bash Americans that's OK too but be accurate. Yale is not a school where you can buy grades neither is Oxford they are both on the same academic level.

If you were from India and applying to Universities and money was no object Yale and Oxford would be equivalent choices. Some say Yale is harder to get into.

Yale is certainly not like a cash for diploma place in Thailand nor is Oxford.

I deal with Thais in business and have used the word Chart of Accounts regularly and they seem to understand what I am talking about. I assumed from my experience that it is a common word in business in Thailand and was quite surprised to see some people from the UK not understanding it especially when it is found in on line documents by both Cambridge and Oxford.

[Utley]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

A chart of accounts is a series of categories to track and report your assets, liabilities and equity (cash, vehicles, inventory, receivables, payables, etc.). If her MBA was in accounting, yes she should be able to create a chart of accounts once she had a grasp of the business's normal transactions.

[mark45y]

I got into a very good university because I was a merit scholar. That means I scored in the top one percent of a national scholastic test when I was a junior in high school. I also scored in the top one percent in the LSAT tests as a junior in college which got me into law school easily. But those tests and my admission had nothing to do with my performance in the classroom or my grades after I was in college.

I was graded on a curve in college. That meant generally a certain percent of students had to flunk out. Survival of the fittest.

I don't think this happens in Thailand. I don't know if it happens in the UK.

[Utley]

Actually, some list that the chart should include numerous information & limited info in terms of income and such while others say it is just a list of accounts with the account ID type while other still say it is a listing of your entire asset, liability, equity, income, cost of sales, expense, other income, and other expense accounts.

It depends on how much detail you want to keep in your general ledger. For example, most manufacturing companies have a stand alone inventory system to keep track of the thousands of parts they use; they would never put all that detail into the general ledger using the chart of accounts. The information is generally summarized on a monthly basis and journal entries made from the summary data.