Thailand Not Ready For English As Second Language

[harrry]

There is no reason at all for the majority of Thais to learn to speak english and in most cases it is a total waste of effort trying to. There are however many reasons for Thai people to understand and read and write written English. It is a language of International commerce and even more importantly the main sources of research and learning are in papers and books published in a few foreign languages. At a guess the main ranking for these would be English, Mandarin (for trade) Japanese, Russian and German though I would be interested in others views on this ranking.

[rubl]

Bingo on the TV idea - My wife of course took ESL classes, but she will tell you she learned real conversational English watching TV, movies and game shows. I hate day time programming, but she said they used daily conversation concerning peoples lives and repeated the stories over and over ( The main reason to hate them), but that worked out great for her. I took German in High School and could never speak German to anyone other then my class mates - I don't think any German would have understood us.

In the Netherlands almost any foreign stuff on television is subtitled rather than dubbed. Sometimes even children's programs. Of course you have to be able to read Coming from near Arnhem close to the border with Germany I learned my first German from TV before I got German classes in school. Must admit similarity of languages helps. I find Thai difficult and Thai kids probably have the same problem with English even with good teachers

[New007]

First measure : Do NOT allow Thai English teachers to speak Thai in English lessons!!!

[tijnebijn]

There is another problem that people are forgetting and that is what is referred to as "Linguistic Distance."

Unlike many European languages which have a lot of similarities in grammar and vocabulary, not to mention using the same alphabet, Thai is a long way from English. Not many words are similar, grammar is significantly different and the alphabet has little in common with English.

This means that they need an early and concerted effort to teach English. It's a much bigger task in Asian countries such as Japan, Korea and China than it is in European countries.

The education system also has problems that complicate the functional use of English for many students. Those that can afford the better schools, of course, have a higher level of competency in English.

absolutely correct .

[tijnebijn]

There is no reason at all for the majority of Thais to learn to speak english and in most cases it is a total waste of effort trying to. There are however many reasons for Thai people to understand and read and write written English. It is a language of International commerce and even more importantly the main sources of research and learning are in papers and books published in a few foreign languages. At a guess the main ranking for these would be English, Mandarin (for trade) Japanese, Russian and German though I would be interested in others views on this ranking.

Strangely enough I see on many of the better schools they prefer French and Japanese , next

to the English curriculum and Chinese's . I think French is hard to do ( even for me ).

[chantorn]

Yes qualified teachers. I have one staff who is a UNI grad and she cannot read English and barely speaks it despite several years of English classes apparently. On the other hand, I have another staff, no UNI, and is fluent in both reading and speaking English which he studies on his own.

Who knows though, maybe they should be studying Chinese instead.

Are you trying to say that the bar girls speak better English (& German, & Russian, & Arabic, etc) than the UNI grads?

[way2muchcoffee]

Are you trying to say that the bar girls speak better English (& German, & Russian, & Arabic, etc) than the UNI grads?

Seems likely given the daily practice they have in conversational English. Probably the university graduates write better English if it's any consolation.

Edited October 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Scott]

Although the standard of English in Thailand is overall, poor; I am impressed with the number of people who are willing to try and speak English and the patience that they have with those who don't speak Thai.

Among the more well educated, many do have an adequate grasp on English, but because they very seldom ever use the language they are rusty and reluctant to use it. They often are no longer conversant, but they can get along.

The problem is those that can/do speak English are far and few between. They certainly command a salary better than teachers make.

[Bagwan]

Mark should set up a budget to buy Babel Fish for everyone in Thailand. Problem solved.

They'd all be eaten inside a week.  

[mark45y]

As a lot of sineage and product information is also in English it would make sense to make it the 2nd language, however, before declaration English teaching needs to be re-thought. I find a lot of children can speak a little although not with confidence,but when it comes to the words meaning "can you show me.......?" they have not a clue. My only conclusion is that the method teaching is not what it should be,

The proposed 2nd language regulations would have no impact on the teaching of younger children, as they would continue to be taught by Thai speakers, albeit there is a requirement that they hold a degree in English (a lot of difference that would make, considering the poor level of English skills amongst grads of Thai university English programs). The 2nd language regs focus on upper mathayom students (M4-6) mandating that they be taught by NES.

The problem they have run into is that the TCT has queered up the certification process for foreign teachers. They could have an adequate pool of good teachers for the 2nd language program, but the TCT is determined to extract money from the foreigner teachers (and enriching certain programs connected with Burapha U. which is well-represented in the TCT). Hence, they have created a licensing exam that is nearly impossible to pass, and bears no resemblance to the skills needed for TESL teachers, with the only alternative being to pay for 15 units of university work towards an education degree (and, hence, the enrichment of Burapha and the programs it certifies).

The TCT has indicated in its deliberations that it doesn't care if good foreign teachers are chased out of the country because they can't afford to meet the educational requirements, as there is a steady stream of backpackers who will be granted waivers to teach for a year in Thailand. Hence, as I indicated in the other thread on this topic, the TCT is at cross-purposes with the MOE on this issue. The TCT has no interest in actually increasing the quality of foreign teachers, it is only interested in lining the pockets of its members and connected organizations. TIT!

I live on the East coast of Thailand. I know of at least 20 government schools in this area where native English speakers teach P 1 through P 6.

[mark45y]

First measure : Do NOT allow Thai English teachers to speak Thai in English lessons!!!

I don't know what to assume. Are you an English teacher who doesn't speak Thai and is jealous of other English teachers who have been here longer and do speak Thai.

Are you a linguist who is recommending this because it is a faster and better way to speak English?

Have you taken Thai lessons where the instructor spoke no English?

I taught in Thai schools for three years from grade school to University level.

[canuck1941]

I have talked with several teachers and been told that the most of the kids really are not interested in learning English.

Quite true, the children seem to lack any incentive to learn anything these days.

Children love learning things. If a teacher can't exploit that, he or she needs to work harder. Where's the interest in teaching English? Where's the incentive of the teacher to do the job, no matter what it takes? Figure out how to mix learning with fun, and whatever you do, encourage the love of learning. Aristotle said Man's greatest pleasure is learning.

[rreddin]

Mark should set up a budget to buy Babel Fish for everyone in Thailand. Problem solved.

If you had read your Hitch Hiker's Guide to The Galaxy a little more closely, you will know that the babel fish only translated brain waves into words. It did not convey the meaning, which caused many problems as a result of misunderstanding what was said. For what it is worth, the answer in this case is not 42.

Edited October 11, 2010 by rreddin

[hanuman1]

For example, can anyone explain to me how the following works

"My friend you" or My dog you"

In Thai, assuming they are translating word for word, it would be "puan kong khun" or "maa kong khun" which word for word is "friend of you" or "dog of you" So how the hel_l do some arrive at "my friend you"??

It's because they think the translation of 'puan' is 'My friend'. It's also quite possible they think 'My friend' is all one word, or that the syllable 'my' should be placed before any noun.

[Woolybully]

In Hua Hin there are a few so called International schools , not any better than a Bi-lingual School. kids hardly learn English. In thai schools Englisdh teachers have a hard time understanding a native speaker...but than again teach 6 days a week a bunch of undiscilpined kids for 15000 baht and less a month ? Muchas Gracias !

This is one of the funniest statements government has made lately.

In Thailand even doctors and lawyers hardly speak English and they want to make it second language?! LMAO-WHAT A JOKE.

In banks, corporations, business-hardly any senior managers speak any English and those are with extremly good education and background

English is the easiest language in the world and yet 99.9% of the locals can not string few words together.

The ones that do, just butcher the language.

For example, can anyone explain to me how the following works

"My friend you" or My dog you"

In Thai, assuming they are translating word for word, it would be "puan kong khun" or "maa kong khun" which word for word is "friend of you" or "dog of you" So how the hel_l do some arrive at "my friend you"??

To further add, one of my Thai teachers at school who supposedly studied in UK, can nto even explain the different between what and which, while the other one studied in Singapore( and correct me if i am wrong but English is the language used at uni) and she does not know what break up means.

[Woolybully]

Very Easy Sport ....When you introduce a frien you say : This is MY FRIEND right ?

And you also say HOW ARE YOU ?

So YOU Is the other person...Thais will ask Where is YOUR FRIEND YOU...being your friend...and MY WIFE ME...This is MY WIFE .. so they thing that MY belongs to Wife...555..bridging the gap my friend !

For example, can anyone explain to me how the following works

"My friend you" or My dog you"

In Thai, assuming they are translating word for word, it would be "puan kong khun" or "maa kong khun" which word for word is "friend of you" or "dog of you" So how the hel_l do some arrive at "my friend you"??

It's because they think the translation of 'puan' is 'My friend'. It's also quite possible they think 'My friend' is all one word, or that the syllable 'my' should be placed before any noun.

[Just1Voice]

A while back, in a similar topic, there was one guy who said his daughter took a test in school where they were shown a number of photos/drawings of various things, and had to write, in English what they were. One of the pictures was a simple battery, and "battery" was his daughter's answer. The teacher marked it wrong. After class, when the girl asked the teacher why she had marked her answer wrong, the teacher replied that the the correct answer is "Copper Top". The girl told her father, who went to the school the next day with various types of batteries and tried to explain to the teacher that there was only one brand known by that name, but that all of them were called "batteries". Teacher was infuriated, but adamant that they are ALL called "Copper Tops". The guy took his daughter out of that school and enrolled her in another one.

As for my own personal experience, 2 years ago I enrolled in the Thai language course at the YMCA in Chiang Mai. Level One, naturally. There were 6 of us, all 50+ who were placed in an afternoon class because the morning class was full. Great! Small class, same age group, more individual attention. The only problem was that the teacher's English was absolutely horrendous, and not helped by the fact that she spoke like she was in a hurry to go somewhere. We seemed to spend more time asking her to repeat herself, and then looking at each other and trying to "decipher" what in the world she was talking about. I finished the Level One and never went back. I've learned a whole heck of a lot more from my wife and son than I did in that class.

[hansnl]

The OP article is not clear. It seems to dwell on logistics, rather than the basic premise of whether English should be Thailand's 2nd language. Of course it should! What other language comes close, in importance and validity?

And yes, there are logistical hurdles to overcome. Most English teachers in Thailand are Thai, and most of them have a poor handle on the language. To compensate, they burden their students with archaic and unnecessary semantics. Classrooms have too many students, therefore not enough conversational learning via student interaction.

The Imm Dept has been making visas for farang increasingly difficult, therefore thinning out the numbers of potential English teachers who are native speakers. It's grossly counter-productive in the big picture of things. If Thailand wants to be a player on the world stage, it needs lots more English speakers. I go in to large department stores, large business places (banks, hospitals, government buildings, etc) and if I'm lucky, perhaps one person out of dozens is able to speak an English sentence of more than 3 words.

Since Thais spend so much time watching TV (rather than reading books or doing outdoor activities), then how about more English speaking programs on Thai TV? Keep it simple and entertaining. Perhaps have a little quiz at the end of each program.

More English on TV?

Very many times I saw it happen, English on TV.

Within 10 seconds the attention wavers, within 30 seconds the viewers are going to do something else.

And that even if subtitled.

[asiawatcher]

I was in Malaysia when Mahartir dropped English and said Bahasa was the official language of Malays. He killed the intellect of the country over the next 10 years and there is a whole generation of dysfunctionals now who only speak Bahasa and cannot speak English or Chinese. A lot of this was to do with Islamic dominance. Enough said.

But in Thailand the 'elite' seem to keep putting this off and have been doing so since 2000. It is also about not letting the populace at large gain access to truth and opinion as the 'system' here is don't question authority. On saying that not all Western languages are clean, clear and concise when it comes to facts as is often demonstrated but none more so than the PR machine of MCOT and TAN when deliberately spreading fabulous data but misinformation, about Thailand in English language.

I am not sure waiting another 5 years for ASEAN will make any difference whatsoever but as my two kids are finding out at my expense, being taught in English and Thai puts them so far ahead of the other school kids it is chalk and cheese. If ever Thailand wants to become truly global, it needs to progress past anal dominance.

[mythBuster]

Given the fact that Thais are the biggest minority in siam, The Thai language might be the second language of choice for Siamese people

[mark45y]

A while back, in a similar topic, there was one guy who said his daughter took a test in school where they were shown a number of photos/drawings of various things, and had to write, in English what they were. One of the pictures was a simple battery, and "battery" was his daughter's answer. The teacher marked it wrong. After class, when the girl asked the teacher why she had marked her answer wrong, the teacher replied that the the correct answer is "Copper Top". The girl told her father, who went to the school the next day with various types of batteries and tried to explain to the teacher that there was only one brand known by that name, but that all of them were called "batteries". Teacher was infuriated, but adamant that they are ALL called "Copper Tops". The guy took his daughter out of that school and enrolled her in another one.

As for my own personal experience, 2 years ago I enrolled in the Thai language course at the YMCA in Chiang Mai. Level One, naturally. There were 6 of us, all 50+ who were placed in an afternoon class because the morning class was full. Great! Small class, same age group, more individual attention. The only problem was that the teacher's English was absolutely horrendous, and not helped by the fact that she spoke like she was in a hurry to go somewhere. We seemed to spend more time asking her to repeat herself, and then looking at each other and trying to "decipher" what in the world she was talking about. I finished the Level One and never went back. I've learned a whole heck of a lot more from my wife and son than I did in that class.

I took a course in Chiang Mai too, different school. older teacher who also taught at a university in the states and had for many years. She spoke perfect English. I got a lot out of the course. A couple of years later I could handle an all Thai course but that was well after the basic state was passed.

I have listened to English teachers maintain speaking only English in the classroom. If it had happened to me in the beginning I would have simply walked out of class and not come back.

I have also watched the English only teachers teach in class. One ended up throwing paper airplanes because the kids had no idea what was going on.

I have heard all the excuses from the non Thai speaking English teachers but I have never seen an English instructor who could speak Thai speak only English in the classroom.

[EarthAlien]

This country will never be ready for English as a 2nd language. They introduce stupid laws regarding minimum requirements for English teachers. The public schools and private colleges all adopt a "no fail" policy. There is no encouragement for students to use English in the community and hence most of them develop a nervousness about speaking English when given the opportunity. I have spoken with English major grads that when asked "how well do you speak English",- respond with "a litten,... nit noi" (accompanied with sheepish and silly grins).

Ask any farang that has taught in the school system or private colleges and they'll all tell you the same,- the system is set up to arrest development and prolong the entire process. There are very few capable and enthusiastic English language students. I'd estimate they'd be in a 1% minority.

Compare this with Japan, Korea, China,.. and now Vietnam that are leaving Thai students standing in the rain as far as progress and committed dynamic learning programs are concerned... and we won't even mention the Philippines where the English grads speak, read and write better than most native born speakers!

I would propose Chinese as a much more relevant 2nd language for Thailand given the predominant Chinese family heritage and business structures here. It really is a country in which myopic and twisted logic views prevail and the continual leveling factor for it all is the "mai pen rai" philosophy that makes it all OK.

My kids and my wife speak English and embrace it as a prominent language for our family because we choose to. My son speaks better English than any of the educated Thais at school (and he's only 7).

We love Thailand and enjoy living here,.. but recurring issues such as this one and the absurd governmental policies that prevail into virtually every walk of life (transport, driving laws, property laws,.. Visas,.. etc etc) are enough to deter even the happiest of campers.

Thank heavens we have an alternative living option back in the west where I can go for a "tune and rebalance" trip when needed, or to escape the prospective Red shirt uprising (hope I'm wrong there but we have a "plan B" just in case), and to give our kids a mix of western culture and real western style education.

[trogers]

Thailand could learn some very valuable lessons from a country just slightly larger than Bangkok, but YEARS ahead in quality of life, education, and just about everything else.

I will dispute the part about quality of life... when MPs in parliament encourage the old to die in neighbouring Malaysia.

[Alboy666]

They can worry about second languages as soon as children get a good grasp of Thai.

Absolutely wrong. Infants are quite capable of learning 2 languages at the same time. In our home my twin daughters were exposed to both. My wife would only speak to them in Thai, but use English to speak to me (she didn't want me to learn Thai). I would speak to the girls in English and repeat in pidgin Thai, and they certainly understood - the problem was that they would only speak Thai, at least while their mother was around.

Why on earth would your wife not want you to learn Thai?? The only people I've encountered that don't like me speaking Thai are bargirls because they don't like it when they can't talk behind your back and keep secrets from you. If I were u I'd start learning Thai ASAP

[puipuitom]

English, as second language in Thailand ...

O.K., but .. the level is so desperate low, here in Western Europe we would call it the fifth language...after own native, English, German, French, and /or Spanish and Italian...

When they call " English" in Thailand, used by the majority in greater Bangkok, the costal area till Rayong and Hua Hin + Chiang Mai, i would name it more " Thailish " = nearly impossible to understand.

I met now-and-then somebody, who tells me, he/she studied in an native English speaking country, but even then, the level is at max: " Thenglish" .

First: pronounce all, and not to swallow half of the sounds.

Second: learn to pronounce the " r ", and not to mix up " l " and " n".

For me: again: a by far overestimating the Thai skills by themselves.

And for me and mny others here, English is NOT my native tongue, but Dutch. ( and after: German, French )

[Acharn]

As a lot of sineage and product information is also in English it would make sense to make it the 2nd language, however, before declaration English teaching needs to be re-thought. I find a lot of children can speak a little although not with confidence,but when it comes to the words meaning "can you show me.......?" they have not a clue. My only conclusion is that the method teaching is not what it should be,

I don't understand talk of "English as a Second Language" in the Thai context. I used to teach at a Thai private high school, where all instruction was in English. After graduation many of our students went on to study at university (ABAC was a favorite), and did comparatively well in their English courses and in classes where command of English was helpful. But except for the very few students who were strongly motivated to master the language, most of the students never achieved the skill to construct a simple English sentence containing subject, verb, and object.

Look. There are countries where English is a Second Language. Countries like India, Singapore, Philippines, where there are many native languages and English was adopted as a means of communicating with the other people in your community. As a person who has studied several languages because of my experience in the U.S. Army (Mandarin Chinese, Moroccan Arabic, German, Thai), I claim that you can only learn a second language if you have need to speak it frequently. This has been remarked on in the literature of teaching languages. In Thailand there is normally no need for a Thai to use English. There are a comparative few jobs where English is used every day, but most Thais are not in that situation. Furthermore, most Thai teenagers are not willing to speak English with their friends. They feel embarrassed to try. At the university level some students seem to overcome this reluctance, but most seem to feel they are being somehow disloyal when they speak English instead of Thai. So even having qualified teachers isn't going to do it. Unless you can figure out a way to make the students want to speak English, they are never going to get good at speaking it. Incidentally, it was not until I no longer worked at that school and started using Thai exclusively that I started gaining some fluency in the language, and there are many subject areas I can't talk about because I never need to talk about them, so I haven't internalized the vocabulary.

[PaulHamon]

Just talk to any girfriend or wife of a farang living in LOS. When was the last time you saw any Thai sitting down reading the paper?

My fiancee reads the newspaper everyday.

[trogers]

Just talk to any girfriend or wife of a farang living in LOS. When was the last time you saw any Thai sitting down reading the paper?

My fiancee reads the newspaper everyday.

Both my wife and I do not read the daily papers. But we surf the net instead...

[mark45y]

I was in Malaysia when Mahartir dropped English and said Bahasa was the official language of Malays. He killed the intellect of the country over the next 10 years and there is a whole generation of dysfunctionals now who only speak Bahasa and cannot speak English or Chinese. A lot of this was to do with Islamic dominance. Enough said.

But in Thailand the 'elite' seem to keep putting this off and have been doing so since 2000. It is also about not letting the populace at large gain access to truth and opinion as the 'system' here is don't question authority. On saying that not all Western languages are clean, clear and concise when it comes to facts as is often demonstrated but none more so than the PR machine of MCOT and TAN when deliberately spreading fabulous data but misinformation, about Thailand in English language.

I am not sure waiting another 5 years for ASEAN will make any difference whatsoever but as my two kids are finding out at my expense, being taught in English and Thai puts them so far ahead of the other school kids it is chalk and cheese. If ever Thailand wants to become truly global, it needs to progress past anal dominance.

I really don't think the elite are bright enough to even consider the ramifications of an English speaking population.

The elite are Issan farmers dressed up better and driving big expensive cars instead of tractors and water buffaloes.

They don't have any more native intelligence than Somchai drinking moonshine at the 7/11.

It's simple, if you want it done make it worth someone's while to do it. Pay em. Put some graft and baht on the table and everyone will speak English.

Thais don't read because they are lazy. Not because they don't know how or uneducated.

Money is the only motivating factor in Thailand.

Food has never been a problem in Thailand. Always enough food and whiskey.

If you want to sell English speaking employees to a business the first words out of your mouth should be, "Somchai, if your employees speak English you will make more money."

[chainarong]

They can worry about second languages as soon as children get a good grasp of Thai.

Spot on my friend, spot on.