Russia Fears Viktor Bout Could Reveal Secrets

[SergeiY]

Afghan, U.S. governments launch investigation after prisoner shot dead inside coalition prison cell

[craigt3365]

Afghan, U.S. governments launch investigation after prisoner shot dead inside coalition prison cell

[chantorn]

Afghan, U.S. governments launch investigation after prisoner shot dead inside coalition prison cell

What's the point. Like it is going to make the dead un-die.

[LaoPo]

Now that we're talking about dealing in arms....

U.S. announces $60 billion arms sale for Saudi Arabia

http://www.reuters.c...E69J4ML20101020

Isn't it strange that in the 9/11 aftermath it was found out that: "All (Hijackers - LP) were from Saudi Arabia, with the exception of one, who was from the UAE." ???

From: http://en.wikipedia....uscle_hijackers

Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?

In other words:

US: "Oh sure, we know that all hijackers, but one, came from Saudi Arabia and killed thousands of innocent people in 9/11 but that doesn't mean that we can't sell weapons to the Saudis for $ 60 Billion....

Business is business, right?

LaoPo

A bit strange for sure. But just because a few bad ones from a particular country did this doesn't mean we should condemn the entire country, right? If that was the case, pretty much every country in the world would have problems.

But this is a source of concern for American's. Most American's would prefer to quit supporting Saudi Arabia...but then how would they fill their car with gas? It's a delicate problem for sure. And one America has not taken seriously enough. Energy conservation needs to be in the lime light in the US and it is just not that important enough....yet....

That's why I wrote: "Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?"

Hypocracy...from a country that desperately wants a notorious Russian arms dealer but at the same time is selling weapons for $ 60 Billion themselves to the country which delivered the 9/11 hijackers killing so many innocent people on the selling countries' soil.

Go, knock the doors and explain that to the families who lost their beloved ones on 9/11.

Very hard to swallow.

ALL arms producing countries, factories, dealers AND buyers are hypocritical @ssholes and it's all about money and power.

The dream of a weapon free world is far away and will probably never come...

LaoPo

[way2muchcoffee]

That's why I wrote: "Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?"

Hypocracy...from a country that desperately wants a notorious Russian arms dealer but at the same time is selling weapons for $ 60 Billion themselves to the country which delivered the 9/11 hijackers killing so many innocent people on the selling countries' soil.

Go, knock the doors and explain that to the families who lost their beloved ones on 9/11.

Very hard to swallow.

ALL arms producing countries, factories, dealers AND buyers are hypocritical @ssholes and it's all about money and power.

The dream of a weapon free world is far away and will probably never come...

LaoPo

As long as there have been humans (and longer than that) there have been weapons. Nothing will change in that respect ever.

Edited October 21, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[geriatrickid]

another hiccup.

Edited October 21, 2010 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

posting screwup, deleted

[craigt3365]

Now that we're talking about dealing in arms....

U.S. announces $60 billion arms sale for Saudi Arabia

http://www.reuters.c...E69J4ML20101020

Isn't it strange that in the 9/11 aftermath it was found out that: "All (Hijackers - LP) were from Saudi Arabia, with the exception of one, who was from the UAE." ???

From: http://en.wikipedia....uscle_hijackers

Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?

In other words:

US: "Oh sure, we know that all hijackers, but one, came from Saudi Arabia and killed thousands of innocent people in 9/11 but that doesn't mean that we can't sell weapons to the Saudis for $ 60 Billion....

Business is business, right?

LaoPo

A bit strange for sure. But just because a few bad ones from a particular country did this doesn't mean we should condemn the entire country, right? If that was the case, pretty much every country in the world would have problems.

But this is a source of concern for American's. Most American's would prefer to quit supporting Saudi Arabia...but then how would they fill their car with gas? It's a delicate problem for sure. And one America has not taken seriously enough. Energy conservation needs to be in the lime light in the US and it is just not that important enough....yet....

That's why I wrote: "Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?"

Hypocracy...from a country that desperately wants a notorious Russian arms dealer but at the same time is selling weapons for $ 60 Billion themselves to the country which delivered the 9/11 hijackers killing so many innocent people on the selling countries' soil.

Go, knock the doors and explain that to the families who lost their beloved ones on 9/11.

Very hard to swallow.

ALL arms producing countries, factories, dealers AND buyers are hypocritical @ssholes and it's all about money and power.

The dream of a weapon free world is far away and will probably never come...

LaoPo

I'm in total agreement with you. The Chinese are experts at this. Look at their oil deals. They don't care about the ethics of the countries they deal with...only what they can get out of it. Much like the US and Saudi Arabia. I am sure we could come up with plenty more examples. Hypocritical for sure....but in the case of the Chinese, they don't really care. Which is a bit of a breath of fresh air...no?

[animatic]

Now that we're talking about dealing in arms....

U.S. announces $60 billion arms sale for Saudi Arabia

http://www.reuters.c...E69J4ML20101020

Isn't it strange that in the 9/11 aftermath it was found out that: "All (Hijackers - LP) were from Saudi Arabia, with the exception of one, who was from the UAE." ???

From: http://en.wikipedia....uscle_hijackers

Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?

In other words:

US: "Oh sure, we know that all hijackers, but one, came from Saudi Arabia and killed thousands of innocent people in 9/11 but that doesn't mean that we can't sell weapons to the Saudis for $ 60 Billion....

Business is business, right?

LaoPo

A bit strange for sure. But just because a few bad ones from a particular country did this doesn't mean we should condemn the entire country, right? If that was the case, pretty much every country in the world would have problems.

But this is a source of concern for American's. Most American's would prefer to quit supporting Saudi Arabia...but then how would they fill their car with gas? It's a delicate problem for sure. And one America has not taken seriously enough. Energy conservation needs to be in the lime light in the US and it is just not that important enough....yet....

That's why I wrote: "Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?"

Hypocracy...from a country that desperately wants a notorious Russian arms dealer but at the same time is selling weapons for $ 60 Billion themselves to the country which delivered the 9/11 hijackers killing so many innocent people on the selling countries' soil.

Go, knock the doors and explain that to the families who lost their beloved ones on 9/11.

Very hard to swallow.

ALL arms producing countries, factories, dealers AND buyers are hypocritical @ssholes and it's all about money and power.

The dream of a weapon free world is far away and will probably never come...

LaoPo

Including your country, and your country of favor China.

He who is living in a country without sin cast the first stone.

Oh wait, you already did.

Edited October 21, 2010 by animatic

[LaoPo]

Now that we're talking about dealing in arms....

U.S. announces $60 billion arms sale for Saudi Arabia

http://www.reuters.c...E69J4ML20101020

Isn't it strange that in the 9/11 aftermath it was found out that: "All (Hijackers - LP) were from Saudi Arabia, with the exception of one, who was from the UAE." ???

From: http://en.wikipedia....uscle_hijackers

Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?

In other words:

US: "Oh sure, we know that all hijackers, but one, came from Saudi Arabia and killed thousands of innocent people in 9/11 but that doesn't mean that we can't sell weapons to the Saudis for $ 60 Billion....

Business is business, right?

LaoPo

A bit strange for sure. But just because a few bad ones from a particular country did this doesn't mean we should condemn the entire country, right? If that was the case, pretty much every country in the world would have problems.

But this is a source of concern for American's. Most American's would prefer to quit supporting Saudi Arabia...but then how would they fill their car with gas? It's a delicate problem for sure. And one America has not taken seriously enough. Energy conservation needs to be in the lime light in the US and it is just not that important enough....yet....

That's why I wrote: "Do I smell a sense of hypocracy ?"

Hypocracy...from a country that desperately wants a notorious Russian arms dealer but at the same time is selling weapons for $ 60 Billion themselves to the country which delivered the 9/11 hijackers killing so many innocent people on the selling countries' soil.

Go, knock the doors and explain that to the families who lost their beloved ones on 9/11.

Very hard to swallow.

ALL arms producing countries, factories, dealers AND buyers are hypocritical @ssholes and it's all about money and power.

The dream of a weapon free world is far away and will probably never come...

LaoPo

Including your country, and your country of favor China.

He who is living in a country without sin cast the first stone.

Oh wait, you already did.

Isn't it enough when I wrote?

"ALL arms producing countries, factories, dealers AND buyers are hypocritical @ssholes and it's all about money and power.

The dream of a weapon free world is far away and will probably never come.."

That includes China.

What more would you wish for Animatic?

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Including your country, and your country of favor China.

That's right, including my own small country; but you're mistaken that China is my favorite country. I favor Thailand (amongst a few other countries) as a holiday country.

But, I'm one of the very few on board who's not bashing China since I'm always trying to explain how difficult the road to prosperity is, for normal Chinese; that doesn't mean that I agree with the regime in Beijing or Chinese criminals, or the Chinese child abductors, or the Chinese corrupt officials...I could go on.

Au contraire Animatic, Au Contraire!

But, that also implies that we cannot condemn the normal people of China.

The same as we can't condemn the people of the US but THAT doesn't mean that we can't criticize the US authorities, the US military and/or government of the US at the same time.

Over and over again, if something is said about the US, the Americans on board of TV jump on their horses and, proud as they are (and good for them!) call the other being America bashers.

What a nonsense!!!

That's said, and I hope well understood by the members with the longest toes on board here, the Americans.

LaoPo

[SergeiY]

Now the its time for bitching about China. ...

What it has to do with the topic Bout ./. USA?

Just another example of the ignorance and hubris of the USA and its brainwashed patriotic citizen.

[animatic]

No, just countering what appears to an observer,

a long term one sided, biased continuous bashing.

Same as usual.

Go ahead and bash the USA government,

but bash your own government at the same time.

Then it might change the over all impression of blind bias.

Not that you are the only one in this regard.

And leave the citizens alone, since they don't have

the power to do more than retread figureheads

[LaoPo]

No, just countering what appears to an observer,

a long term one sided, biased continuous bashing.

Same as usual.

Go ahead and bash the USA government,

but bash your own government at the same time.

Then it might change the over all impression of blind bias.

Not that you are the only one in this regard.

And leave the citizens alone, since they don't have

the power to do more than retread figureheads

Criticizing is a better word than bashing.

Your own media criticize their own government, military, Wall St bankers as well but we're not entitled to do so ?

And, if you wish to criticize MY own country/government....be my guest

I would probably agree with a lot you have to say about my country and/or -newly installed- government but my toes aren't as long as yours, most likely.

LaoPo

[SergeiY]

No, just countering what appears to an observer,

a long term one sided, biased continuous bashing.

Same as usual.

Go ahead and bash the USA government,

but bash your own government at the same time.

Then it might change the over all impression of blind bias.

Not that you are the only one in this regard.

And leave the citizens alone, since they don't have

the power to do more than retread figureheads

No troll, not China nor The Netherlands framed Bout in some sting operation in Bangkok and demand his extradition. That is the USA. So don't be surprised when people talking about USA politics.

And the citizen i am talking about are only the brainwashed patriotic ones, like those here in this thread who think they have to fight against the rest of the world on behalf of their dreamland and come up with one ridiculous statement after one other.

Next ...

[jdinasia]

Framed? LOL

a known gun runner gets nailed in a sting and some people call it a frame up?

[LomSak27]

ALL arms producing countries, factories, dealers AND buyers are hypocritical @ssholes and it's all about money and power.

The dream of a weapon free world is far away and will probably never come...

LaoPo

Laopo own personal hypocrosy is he refuses to consider and does not think about Viktor selling arms in the most horrific post WWII conflicts this world has seen; The Congo, The Sudanese Civil War Version 2.0. No Laopo wants to get on his podium and preach to the choir about merkan hypocrisy.

And in doing that, he ignores Viktors crimes. Good on you Laopo but not much different than the FOX news yahoo's in merika itself. You believe you are different from them? You are just another facet of the same problem. And that Means you deserve these merkins who hound you on this forum, waa waa.

[LaoPo]

Framed? LOL

a known gun runner gets nailed in a sting and some people call it a frame up?

Bout, guilty in this case or not, was framed. That's a fact.

But, the irony lies in the other fact that the US goverrnment permits itself to sell $ 60 Billions worth of weapons to the country that "delivered" the 9/11 terrorists, Saudi Arabia.

Isn't that bitter irony ? I don't understand why the people of America do not (yet) protest against this enormous sale of weapons.

It's beyond me, such hypocracy by the US government.

LaoPo

[LomSak27]

Denial and deflection.

Rupert Murdoch could use a guy like you.

[LaoPo]

ALL arms producing countries, factories, dealers AND buyers are hypocritical @ssholes and it's all about money and power.

The dream of a weapon free world is far away and will probably never come...

LaoPo

Laopo own personal hypocrosy is he refuses to consider and does not think about Viktor selling arms in the most horrific post WWII conflicts this world has seen; The Congo, The Sudanese Civil War Version 2.0. No Laopo wants to get on his podium and preach to the choir about merkan hypocrisy.

And in doing that, he ignores Viktors crimes. Good on you Laopo but not much different than the FOX news yahoo's in merika itself. You believe you are different from them? You are just another facet of the same problem. And that Means you deserve these merkins who hound you on this forum, waa waa.

If Bout is guilty of any crimes he should be brought to trial, preferably an International Court, NOT a single country.

I NEVER defended Bout in any of my posts.

It's the WAY the US thinks it can act, all over the world, and direct governments, with or without their knowledge and/or approval to get hold of people who are not convicted yet and bring them to justice in the USA for crimes they did NOT commit on American soil.

It happened before, it's happening now with Bout, and it happened in the aftermath of 9/11, when the CIA (with or without the Bush Administration's knowledge) illegally transporting suspects and having them tortured on third countries' soil.

THAT is what I am opposing to...!

And than...

....than, if I write that I don't understand the hypocritical attitude by the US government (and the silent people of America) in the sale of $ 60 Billion to the Saudis I am attacked ?

Get real.

Attack the Saudis who delivered the 9/11 hijackers,..... attack your own American government for being such hypocrites, but not a simple sole like me here on a forum who's expressing his opinion which is probably shared by the majority of American people, also opposing to the weapon sales to Saudi Arabia.

Wait and see...the news is only a day old.

LaoPo

[animatic]

'Framed' means :

He had an opportunity to commit a crime and did NOT,

but they arrest him for it anyway,

and fabricate evidence to make the charge work.

As 'Sting' on the other hand means:

An opportunity is provided, real or not, for a person to actively commit

or conspire in committing the crime,

and that person DOES say or do what constitutes a crime,

by their own actions.

So he was not framed,

but set up to make HIM make that choice,

but walked through that portal willingly,

not realizing those he was conspiring with were not

who they purported to be.

That makes no difference because

HE DID THE DEED or SAID THE WORDS HIMSELF.

And conspiracy to commit crimes IS a crime.

Edited October 21, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

Denial and deflection.

Rupert Murdoch could use a guy like you.

:jap:

[SergeiY]

But those 9/11 hijackers have not much to do with royals in power in Saudi Arabia, so your argument doesn't work that well.

That the majority of Americans people would be opposed a weapon deal with Saudi Arabia has not much to do with a rational and educated opinion of someone who has some knowledge, but just some irrational resentment against anything arab, muslim, foreign.

[LaoPo]

'Framed' means :

He had an opportunity to commit a crime and did NOT,

but they arrest him for it anyway,

and fabricate evidence to make the charge work.

As 'Sting' on the other hand means:

An opportunity is provided, real or not, for a person to actively commit

or conspire in committing the crime,

and that person DOES say or do what constitutes a crime,

by their own actions.

So he was not framed,

but set up to make HIM make that choice,

but walked through that portal willingly,

not realizing those he was conspiring with were not

who they purported to be.

That makes no difference because

HE DID THE DEED or SAID THE WORDS HIMSELF.

And conspiracy to commit crimes IS a crime.

OK; your American English is a lot better than mine will ever be.

Let's stick to STING...

Happy ?

LaoPo

Edited October 21, 2010 by LaoPo

[animatic]

'Framed' means :

He had an opportunity to commit a crime and did NOT,

but they arrest him for it anyway,

and fabricate evidence to make the charge work.

As 'Sting' on the other hand means:

An opportunity is provided, real or not, for a person to actively commit

or conspire in committing the crime,

and that person DOES say or do what constitutes a crime,

by their own actions.

So he was not framed,

but set up to make HIM make that choice,

but walked through that portal willingly,

not realizing those he was conspiring with were not

who they purported to be.

That makes no difference because

HE DID THE DEED or SAID THE WORDS HIMSELF.

And conspiracy to commit crimes IS a crime.

OK; your American English is a lot better than mine will ever be.

Let's stick to STING...

Happy ?

LaoPo

Yes quite happy.

Sting is correct and also quite legal,

as long as feeding him the words to say, isn't done,

no, 'repeat after me', will do.

This might well apply to Court Sec. Pasit and MP. Wirat

and the current attempt by PTP to frame the Dems.

Pasit is feeding Wirat the words, trying to get Wirat to say

what he wants him to say.

A sting is:

Here's what we want or need,

Here's the deal: Are you in or out? What will you do for us? etc.

Once he says he is in, and will do thus and such, he is caught.

And as you must know,

in court the parsing of words and how they are said means everything

in determining guilt or innocence. In the court of public opinion,

innuendo and artificially created perceptions carry greater weight.

Regardless of the spuriousness to the truth.

Edited October 21, 2010 by animatic

[LaoPo]

^^^^

Please, spare me your lecture.

Thank you :jap:

LaoPo

[way2muchcoffee]

Bout, guilty in this case or not, was framed. That's a fact.

Do you mean he was a victim of entrapment? Entrapment is not the same thing as being framed. A case could be made for entrapment I think, but not a good one. He was set up, yes, but the circumstances don't meet the legal criteria for entrapment.

Sorry LaoPo. Wasn't trying to beat a dead horse here. Looks like this was already covered. I was just catching up on the thread and responded to an earlier post.

Edited October 21, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[chantorn]

'Framed' means :

He had an opportunity to commit a crime and did NOT,

but they arrest him for it anyway,

and fabricate evidence to make the charge work.

As 'Sting' on the other hand means:

An opportunity is provided, real or not, for a person to actively commit

or conspire in committing the crime,

and that person DOES say or do what constitutes a crime,

by their own actions.

So he was not framed,

but set up to make HIM make that choice,

but walked through that portal willingly,

not realizing those he was conspiring with were not

who they purported to be.

That makes no difference because

HE DID THE DEED or SAID THE WORDS HIMSELF.

And conspiracy to commit crimes IS a crime.

OK; your American English is a lot better than mine will ever be.

Let's stick to STING...

Happy ?

LaoPo

Form Victor with love, should we use Russian English instead?

[LaoPo]

'Framed' means :

He had an opportunity to commit a crime and did NOT,

but they arrest him for it anyway,

and fabricate evidence to make the charge work.

As 'Sting' on the other hand means:

An opportunity is provided, real or not, for a person to actively commit

or conspire in committing the crime,

and that person DOES say or do what constitutes a crime,

by their own actions.

So he was not framed,

but set up to make HIM make that choice,

but walked through that portal willingly,

not realizing those he was conspiring with were not

who they purported to be.

That makes no difference because

HE DID THE DEED or SAID THE WORDS HIMSELF.

And conspiracy to commit crimes IS a crime.

OK; your American English is a lot better than mine will ever be.

Let's stick to STING...

Happy ?

LaoPo

Form Victor with love, should we use Russian English instead?

The esteemed member Animatic likes to use a "special" kind of American English that most normal souls have difficulties with, reading and understanding.

And, that includes myself I have to admit, being of a possible lesser breed of intelligence than the writer in American English.

However, I could write the same in another language or 4, outside my Mother tongue, which the esteemed member wouldn't be able to "get it"" either but he's in favor since this is an English forum so I'm afraid I have to live with it.

But, that's not so difficult for me since I refrain reading his posts for some 99%, making my life easier.

LaoPo

[craigt3365]

Now the its time for bitching about China. ...

What it has to do with the topic Bout ./. USA?

Just another example of the ignorance and hubris of the USA and its brainwashed patriotic citizen.

LaoPo: You have some great arguments. And being able to understand the difference between a country's government and it's citizens. Others, as you can see from the above quote, are less educated about this. Just jumping on the bashing bandwagon...and never replying to direct requests for substantiation of their claims. Sad...