Is My Drinking Behaviour Normal?

[corkman]

Update - Report on Efforts for Self Control.

From the outset, my primary concern has been the issue of black outs. As such, I have concluded that I get them because I drink too much too quickly. So I have concluded that if I can reduce the amount I consume to the point of eliminating the blackouts, then my problem will be solved.

So, I had a session with some friends yesterday. This session was planned a long time ago, and was intended to be a good lads-night-out type of thing. Before going out I had decided that I was going to relax and not worry too much about my issue on this particular occassion, but none-the-less I would make a small effort to exercise control.

So the evening started out at 6pm and went through to about 2am. The end of the night is a bit hazy, and there are a couple of gaps...... however it was by no means a black out. I think again that I'm a little bit paranoid here..... I mean for example I cannot remember minute-for-minute what I dod at work on Friday. I know I had a meeting in the morning and another in theafternoon - I remember getting to and from them, but what happened in the middle I don't really know....... none of us remember minute-for-minute of everything we do and every conversation we have. So, I remember arriving at the venue, I remember noticing that my friends were knocking back the drinks faster than I. I remember leaving venue 1 and arriving at venue 2..... I remember leaving venue 2 and arriving at venue 3..... and I remember leaving venue 3 and arriving at venue 4. I don't rememeber exactly at what point I left venue 4, but I remember getting the cab, stopping at the ATM on the way home, putting my tie back on so the mrs would think well of me ...... I remember that she didn't let the key out so I had to phone her to come down and let me in....... and remember getting a "hero's welcome" from the mrs. but not before having a shower .......

So, there are a couple of hazy bits, but generally I've got about 90% of it ...... so for the first attempt, for an 8 hour session, on a specfic occassion that was doomed to fail anyway, I think that's quite a good result. I wasn't counting drinks or anything, in fact I wasn't even deliberately slowing down, but I stuck to beer for the entire night which certianly helped.

So - a positive step, and a positive result...... at least in my opinion .... how say you?

Edited November 7, 2010 by corkman

[corkman]

Alcohol is not my particular issue, but I have been addressing other addictive tendencies and this diagram may give the OP pause for thought regarding his present behaviours.

That diagram is excellent. Thank you. It is exactly the path of descent that I would imagine for alcoholism. It certainly gives pause for thought, however upon relfection is re-affirms my conclusion. I would expand as follows:

• Relief Drinking - this is not something I do. I do not, generally, drink for relief..... with the exception of something like a funeral perhaps. Occasionally, after a hard week at work, I really look forward to going out on a friday evening with the Mrs. - but that is sort of a "all work and play makes jack a dull boy" sort of mentality .... a reward of sorts for the hard weeks work. Or ocassionally there might be some tension in our lives, cause by external extraneous matters, and a good night out is a great way to blow out the cob webs..... but it is not what I would consdier "relief" drinking.
• Increase in alcohol tolerence - I think everyone has this, I mean you guys get hammer on a couple of beers..... some older guys could compete in the olympics if drinking was a sport. I think my tolerance is no higher than my peers - generally..... we can old "hold our drink" sort of thing.
• Surreptitious drinking - never ...... I've had the odd carfty one, but I don't think any married man has not done that..... but that's more of a "rebel" thing ..... duck in for a quick beer with the boys, and its the 'fear of getting caught' which is what makes it fun........ but I do not "hide" drinking from anyone, nor do I lie about it, or exagerate about it (in either direction).
• Urgency of First Drink - well when I arrive at a bar, and it takes 10 minutes to get served, I get quite irritated! But who doesn't ..... it would be the same if queuing for an ice cream. I was at a function a number of weeks back, and the bar in the function room didn't open until 7pm..... there was quite a few of us there at 6.45..... none of us were happy about waiting...... does that count?
• Increasing alcohol dependence - I do not have a dependence
• Decreasing ability to stop when others do - well I'm never first to leave, but I'm rarely last either.....
• Drinking Bolstered with Excuses - N/A .... again, apart from the odd white-lie or BS excuse to the Mrs. ..... but its Bob's birthday babe, we can't not go to that, he's been really good to us..... but most husbands (all the guys I know) have to justify things to the mrs. if they are to get a "pass"
• Unable to discuss problem - this thread is self evident I think.

So that covers everything on the first five bullet points before the "critical phase". All except the black-outs thing......

I would reiterate, that diagram is excellent - far more tangible I think, and easily interpreted. It would be worth making a sticky out of it, at the top of the forum.

[corkman]

Two posts in another "am I an alcoholic" type thread that are quite pertinent here are:

"Heavy drinking and alcoholism are not the same you will probably be a heavy drinker but alcoholism is defined by the inability to stop when the booze is harming your life and you chose the booze, that doesn't mean heavy drinking is healthy ! ....... However if you can maintain your life without any troubles you may just fine." - MrRichard2009

"Only question you need to ask yourself does your life focus on alcohol? If yes - you will have a problem. If no then no worries." - britmaveric

I think there is alot of wisdom in those simple statements.

Edited November 7, 2010 by corkman

[bifftastic]

I think there is alot of wisdom in those simple statements.

And some excuses too!

How are you doing anyway?

For me, it doesn't really matter what you want to call it. Maybe you're an alcoholic, maybe you're not.

The blackouts would be enough for me, the 'little white lies' and the 'most people do that don't they?' stuff, you can convince yourself it's ok if you want to

Doesn't really matter if you're technically alcoholic or not, you wouldn't be posting here about it if you weren't concerned about the blackouts.

They would scare me. I've only ever had that happen to me once, about 5 years ago, it took me about 36 hours to get to that state but after that 'bender' I had a serious word with myself and have addressed the things that caused me to see that as an acceptable way to treat myself, which it isn't

I hope you're ok and wish you all the best.

Cheers,

Biff

[Groongthep]

To the OP:

All you're going to get from here on in, I think, is AA-zealots saying "Go to AA or you'll die" .

For me personally; I don't want any idioit wasting my time & theirs by attending any AA meeting before they have hit bottom.

Stopping is so hard - only a few tiny fraction make it any length of time.

So unless you want to stop - AA can not & will not be of any use to you.

If people want to kill themselves it'as perfectly OK with me. Earth is way overpopulated anyway. Just ask the econuts.

Mostly agree (except for maybe the last paragraph.

Some on here were suggesting AA are out there recruting members. Not true. There are no dues or fees to join AA. We don't keep records. You are a member if you say you are.

You can say your name is Howard Hughes, Clark Gable, Cary Grant,Rock Hudson, James Cagney. Nobody cares. Which is why folks like Eric Clapton & Van Morrison can attend in relative anonomity.

Judges in Calif "punish" DUI convicts by sending them to us with little cards to have signed. We sign them but we don't care if the person attends the meeting or not. Nor do we care what the persons name is. We don't ask for ID. Only a tiny fraction of these want help. Wastes their time & ours.

No one can prove one way or the other if someone is a member nor for how long.

It's an honor system like the US military academies.

1.) Judges in nearly all US States send alcohol related criminal offenders to AA with their little sign-off cards. I agree totally that it should not be allowed as it wastes the time of those who want to be there.

2.) I was a practicing drunk for nearly 30 years before quitting. Attending AA had a lot to do with getting me sober and saving my life although I can't say it was the only factor.

3.) I was an active duty officer in the US Navy for over 4 years and in the reserves another 2 and have no idea what you're talking about when you say that attending AA is anything remotely related to having attended a US military academy.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Groongthep

[MrRichard2009]

Two posts in another "am I an alcoholic" type thread that are quite pertinent here are:

"Heavy drinking and alcoholism are not the same you will probably be a heavy drinker but alcoholism is defined by the inability to stop when the booze is harming your life and you chose the booze, that doesn't mean heavy drinking is healthy ! ....... However if you can maintain your life without any troubles you may just fine." - MrRichard2009

"Only question you need to ask yourself does your life focus on alcohol? If yes - you will have a problem. If no then no worries." - britmaveric

I think there is alot of wisdom in those simple statements.

My 2 cents in your situation is this ....... Your inability to stop before your drunk is most likely going to continue to be an on and off problem as long as you keep drinking in the same manner and attitude as you do now, you will get drunker than you wanted to and regret it off and on pretty much forever, the longer it goes on the more normal to you it will become and the harder to stop ....... Eventually you WILL want to stop because it will just become more of a pain than it's worth. So my advice is to fix the problem now by setting some limits and guidelines for yourself so the blackouts stop. Just because you have not harmed yourself or someone else while blacked out doesn't mean you won't someday. ..... eventually you will, and then if you don't stop you will be an addict, ....... So just avoid that whole can of worms by limiting your use to the buzzed stage not the blackout drunk stage.

Is your drinking normal ? ..... Yeah if your 20 maybe, I don't mean to be overly rude but I hope it will help you avoid many years of on and off drinking regret and blackouts ect.......... Just grow up and act like a 30 year old adult, not a teenager out sucking down on a bottle of Jack Daniels after the prom. I'm sorry to tell you but "normal" drinking doesn't involve blackouts on a regular basis, It involves people moderating their intake so they can both get a buzz and control themselves at the same time. Being a drunk is not normal and even in Thailand surrounded by other drunks eventually that will set in ..... So once again either stop or control yourself OR ....... eventually your abnormal drinking will lead to the same place it takes everyone else, .........

In the end you will have just as much if not more fun if you learn to drink responsibly and avoid the crash landing, ....... If you can't do that you have a bigger problem than you think even though it has not become obvious enough yet.

A heavy drinker is only 1 car crash away from being an addict or having to quit. ........... more or less

[Mobi]

Two posts in another "am I an alcoholic" type thread that are quite pertinent here are:

"Heavy drinking and alcoholism are not the same you will probably be a heavy drinker but alcoholism is defined by the inability to stop when the booze is harming your life and you chose the booze, that doesn't mean heavy drinking is healthy ! ....... However if you can maintain your life without any troubles you may just fine." - MrRichard2009

"Only question you need to ask yourself does your life focus on alcohol? If yes - you will have a problem. If no then no worries." - britmaveric

I think there is alot of wisdom in those simple statements.

So do I and I concur 100%.

I never thought there would come a day when I would praise a posting of 'Britmaverick' (Only joking), but is remarkably simple, yet so true.

My life still focusses on alcohol even though I have touched a drop in 10 days. It rarely far from my thoughts.....

[ding]

My opinion only:

Seems there are as many styles and levels of severity as there are alcoholics and non-alcoholics.

Seems to me that there is a pain threshold that is met which motivates someone to look at their drinking, and a severity level that causes an alcoholic to break through denial and get to work on it. And if the pain is unbearable, and coninuation proving dire, and there's still a will to live and be free of it - then there is a very very good chance for sobriety.

A funny definition of an alcoholic that I heard a long time ago has stuck with me:

"An alcoholic is a man, or a woman, sitting in an AA meeting trying to figure out if they're alcoholic or not"

[corkman]

How are you doing anyway?

Quite well, making reasonable progress. Finding myself more conscious of nights out that I know will end up as big sessions, and finding it easy to just avoid them in the first instance. On the nights out that I do go on, I am still inclined to have just one more, but do not find it too difficult to say to myself "stop, enough has been had, this is a few social drinks, not an excuse for a bender" ....... so I've been getting home earlier, less drunk, and with most-to-all of the memory intact. All in all - slow but steady progress.

There are going to be occasions that I go out and purposely allow mylself to loose control - which is not so much an inability to control myself as it is an irresponsible attitude to have...... if such sessions are going to lead to further blackouts, then I know it is wrong to just accept the inevitable blackout as acceptable...... I've got to work on my perception of what is acceptable, and take corrective action accordingly. I have reached a stage of realization that I do not want to black out any more, whereas before I just sort of didn't even think about it and so I am now targeting and tackling that specific issue. There is a certain element of peer pressure there too - my buddies will expect me to be full on...... so that's something to deal with also.

My 2 cents in your situation is this ....... Your inability to stop before your drunk is most likely going to continue to be an on and off problem as long as you keep drinking in the same manner and attitude as you do now ............. So just avoid that whole can of worms by limiting your use to the buzzed stage not the blackout drunk stage...... Is your drinking normal ? ..... Yeah if your 20 maybe.............. Just grow up and act like a 30 year old adult.........

In the end you will have just as much if not more fun if you learn to drink responsibly and avoid the crash landing

I agree with your synopsis, and I have come to that same conclusion / realisation.

Really, it is about time I gave myself a kick up the ass, as you say, and act my age and not my shoe size.

One of my greatest fears is that if I don't get this under control, then I will be a full blown alcholic, and then it has broad and sweeping consequences. To be heonst, I cannot ever see this doing any harm, other than self harm i.e. blackouts mean killing my own brain, right? The thing for me is that if I because a nuisance drinker, then it potentially excludes me from alot of activites. I know this may sound shallow and outright daft, but there is a general perception that when a non-drinker goes to a party they don't have as much fun as others...... and by default are not as much fun as others....... and others are not as comfortable around a non-drinker while they are themselves getting drunk for fear of being judged or whatever...... I don't want to take my life down the road where I have to pigeon hole myself into that catagory. I would much rather be able to go to social events and participate as I always ave, but perhaps at a slightly more reserved way...... I mean, I cannot see someone calling up a non-drinker and saying "hey Tim, fancy going for a pint" .......

So, yes, I am aware and conscious of how this problem (and it is a problem) could become more serious - either I control it, or it will control me. I am trying to ease myself into it - just as I am easing myself into a diet as well ......... gradual changes are longer lasting and more sustainable....... so that is my goal.

I had a night out on Thursday, an unplanned thing....... but I remember everything, in full..... except perhaps a 10 minute period between getting off the BTS and arriving at the gate to my muban. I can remember exactly how many beers I had, where I had them, I can remember making a conscious decision at about 8pm that I would head home about 10-10.30, and I stuck with the plan....... so, it was another step in the right direction, and a step further than the previous effort last week.

Thanks to everyone for participating in this thread. Its much appreciated. I am finding it very useful in learning to understand myself.

Edited November 15, 2010 by corkman

[needforspeed]

5 Yes for me on the 20 questions, so better keep quite .

[corkman]

5 Yes for me on the 20 questions, so better keep quite .

Having thought about this alot, and having read the replies in this thread...... those 5 yes's might actually be quite innocent yes's, or then again very serious ones......I mean, black outs, getting into financial difficulty because of work, engaging in antisocial behaviour, etc.......

I think the chart that was posted earlier is actually much better, and more tangible.

[needforspeed]

5 Yes for me on the 20 questions, so better keep quite .

Having thought about this alot, and having read the replies in this thread...... those 5 yes's might actually be quite innocent yes's, or then again very serious ones......I mean, black outs, getting into financial difficulty because of work, engaging in antisocial behaviour, etc.......

I think the chart that was posted earlier is actually much better, and more tangible.

I like to have a beer also when i am alone.When i am not working i drink alcohol 5 days a week.

And more than 2 pins of lager, no financial problems, no problems with my wife (not married ), no problems with my work, dont get crazy or aggresive after a few beers.

So the 5 yes if that means that i am a alcoholic, so it be.

I clearly see the differance between me and some people in my close area who are alcoholic and couses big issues for themselfs and family.

So i will keep it on 5 and not going to 6 hopefully.

NFS

[corkman]

Update -

Hi All,

Well I have been quite a bit more sensible these last few weeks. I have "improved" my beaviour some what. I am alot less paranoid about it and my efforts have been balanced and in moderation and hence are sustainable in my opinion. I have demsontrated to myself that when I want to I can simply walk away. I have demonstrated that I can slow down and drink in moderation, and not every socail event has to be seen as an olympic challenge. I have learned to diffrentiate between "big nights" and casual ones, and have moderated my behaviour to a more appropriate level for both.

Just last night, I had what could have been a great excuse to binge - it was a late start and so a late finish..... started at 11pm and finished up about 3 or 3.30am. I have 100% memory of the whole thing. At abut 2.30-3.00am I started to feel tired, I had a good night, and did not see or feel the need to continue further, needlessly...... and so called it a night at that...... and I am quite proud of that...... I would have been easy to say "ok, one more for the road" and stay until 4-5-6am....... but I saw no point in going over the edge, and did not have to wrestle with any demons or twist my own arm.

So, there will be nights in the future that I am just having so much fun that I dont wanna go home...... and on occassion I will loose the run of myself and go a bit nuts............ so I cannot say that I will never again have blackouts from drink, but to be heonst I think I was overly concerned about that and while it is obvisouly not a good thing it is not as serious as I thought...... I sort of paniced a bit, and that panic is a good sanity check, but really I am going to let it there I think. I have been paying close attention to my friends and colleagues since I started this thread, noting the ones that were more drunk than I and who stayed later than I...... and to be honest it seemed all well balanced ........... and when asked "so what did you think of last night" half of time they do not really remember and have patchy recolection the same as I do sometimes. And so, assuming "normal" to be a average of what most people do, then I think me and my behaviour in fact quite normal and through my recent sel-exploration I think I am in fact slightly more sensible than most....... through a cross section of men from 25yrs old to 60 yrs old...... includng close friends, aquaintences, colleagues, and associates....... i.e. it can;t be said "yes your behavious seems normal because you only associate with like mind alcoholic prone individuals".......

So, thanks again for the continued readership and support and comments of the people in this thread.

Best regards,

CM.

[Northpoint]

Update -

Hi All,

Well I have been quite a bit more sensible these last few weeks. I have "improved" my beaviour some what. I am alot less paranoid about it and my efforts have been balanced and in moderation and hence are sustainable in my opinion. I have demsontrated to myself that when I want to I can simply walk away. I have demonstrated that I can slow down and drink in moderation, and not every socail event has to be seen as an olympic challenge. I have learned to diffrentiate between "big nights" and casual ones, and have moderated my behaviour to a more appropriate level for both.

Just last night, I had what could have been a great excuse to binge - it was a late start and so a late finish..... started at 11pm and finished up about 3 or 3.30am. I have 100% memory of the whole thing. At abut 2.30-3.00am I started to feel tired, I had a good night, and did not see or feel the need to continue further, needlessly...... and so called it a night at that...... and I am quite proud of that...... I would have been easy to say "ok, one more for the road" and stay until 4-5-6am....... but I saw no point in going over the edge, and did not have to wrestle with any demons or twist my own arm.

So, there will be nights in the future that I am just having so much fun that I dont wanna go home...... and on occassion I will loose the run of myself and go a bit nuts............ so I cannot say that I will never again have blackouts from drink, but to be heonst I think I was overly concerned about that and while it is obvisouly not a good thing it is not as serious as I thought...... I sort of paniced a bit, and that panic is a good sanity check, but really I am going to let it there I think. I have been paying close attention to my friends and colleagues since I started this thread, noting the ones that were more drunk than I and who stayed later than I...... and to be honest it seemed all well balanced ........... and when asked "so what did you think of last night" half of time they do not really remember and have patchy recolection the same as I do sometimes. And so, assuming "normal" to be a average of what most people do, then I think me and my behaviour in fact quite normal and through my recent sel-exploration I think I am in fact slightly more sensible than most....... through a cross section of men from 25yrs old to 60 yrs old...... includng close friends, aquaintences, colleagues, and associates....... i.e. it can;t be said "yes your behavious seems normal because you only associate with like mind alcoholic prone individuals".......

So, thanks again for the continued readership and support and comments of the people in this thread.

Best regards,

CM.

[Northpoint]

Google dipsomania. I think we both come under this category.

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/journals/nemaq1915/02-dipsomania.html

[ding]

Update -

Hi All,

Well I have been quite a bit more sensible these last few weeks. I have "improved" my beaviour some what. I am alot less paranoid about it and my efforts have been balanced and in moderation and hence are sustainable in my opinion. I have demsontrated to myself that when I want to I can simply walk away. I have demonstrated that I can slow down and drink in moderation, and not every socail event has to be seen as an olympic challenge. I have learned to diffrentiate between "big nights" and casual ones, and have moderated my behaviour to a more appropriate level for both.

Just last night, I had what could have been a great excuse to binge - it was a late start and so a late finish..... started at 11pm and finished up about 3 or 3.30am. I have 100% memory of the whole thing. At abut 2.30-3.00am I started to feel tired, I had a good night, and did not see or feel the need to continue further, needlessly...... and so called it a night at that...... and I am quite proud of that...... I would have been easy to say "ok, one more for the road" and stay until 4-5-6am....... but I saw no point in going over the edge, and did not have to wrestle with any demons or twist my own arm.

So, there will be nights in the future that I am just having so much fun that I dont wanna go home...... and on occassion I will loose the run of myself and go a bit nuts............ so I cannot say that I will never again have blackouts from drink, but to be heonst I think I was overly concerned about that and while it is obvisouly not a good thing it is not as serious as I thought...... I sort of paniced a bit, and that panic is a good sanity check, but really I am going to let it there I think. I have been paying close attention to my friends and colleagues since I started this thread, noting the ones that were more drunk than I and who stayed later than I...... and to be honest it seemed all well balanced ........... and when asked "so what did you think of last night" half of time they do not really remember and have patchy recolection the same as I do sometimes. And so, assuming "normal" to be a average of what most people do, then I think me and my behaviour in fact quite normal and through my recent sel-exploration I think I am in fact slightly more sensible than most....... through a cross section of men from 25yrs old to 60 yrs old...... includng close friends, aquaintences, colleagues, and associates....... i.e. it can;t be said "yes your behavious seems normal because you only associate with like mind alcoholic prone individuals".......

So, thanks again for the continued readership and support and comments of the people in this thread.

Best regards,

CM.

Right on corkman! So corkman is able to put a cork in it, eh? That's great corkman. I never could - once I went almost 2 months as a desperate attempt to prove to my ex that I wasn't alcoholic. But that's it. Be careful of those blackouts. Prisons are full of nice guys who blacked out one too many times. No joke.

[powderpuff]

So that covers everything on the first five bullet points before the "critical phase". All except the black-outs thing......

Yeah there is that ennsie weensie problem.

Thanks for the laugh.

You are looking for excuses to justify your continued drinking. Don't worry you'll find them.

The only difference between you & a child that keeps on buring his hand on a hot stove is that the child will eventually learn to stop.

Have fun & hopefully you don't kill anyone with a motor vehicle.

[ThaiPauly]

Blackouts are no joke.

I knew a guy in the UK who served 8 years in prison for manslaughter as he strangled his girlfreind in a blackout and he obviously knew nothing about it

[ThaiPauly]

Inflammatory post deleted.

It's the posters decision regarding what action he wishes to take, its not for members to make comments that are unhelpful

TP