Butter Is Better

[Sansai Sam]

I was really happy to hear that "Butter is Better" is opening a third shop at Nim City near the Airport. They just keep getting bigger and better. Really nice people they deserve to succeed. I wish them the best!

[Ulysses G.]

The only problem with Butter is Better is that their baked goods are so good that you want to eat them every single day.

The croissants, sticky buns, chocolate chip cookies - and quite a few other items - are as good as any that I have had anywhere in the world.

[garyh]

I went there will not bother again as my bread maker will arrive soon and I can bake fresh bread rather than there frozen offerings.

[Ulysses G.]

Their Italian bread is really nice and is always fresh and there are many other items as well.

I can't be bothered to bake my own bread, but making it yourself seems like the best solution if it is that important to someone.

[venturalaw]

I went there will not bother again as my bread maker will arrive soon and I can bake fresh bread rather than there frozen offerings.

I haven't experienced anything frozen at Butter is Better other than the homemade ice cream, which is the best I have ever had for 20 - 25 baht per scoop.

Now, if I had an ice cream maker, plus the recipes for the pies, cookies, cakes, breads, etc., and the time and skill to make them, perhaps I would not be going to Butter is Better. Come to think of it, I'd be going anyway - the atmosphere is very congenial.

Edited October 30, 2010 by venturalaw

[garyh]

I went there will not bother again as my bread maker will arrive soon and I can bake fresh bread rather than there frozen offerings.

I haven't experienced anything frozen at Butter is Better other than the homemade ice cream, which is the best I have ever had for 20 - 25 baht per scoop.

Now, if I had an ice cream maker, plus the recipes for the pies, cookies, cakes, breads, etc., and the time and skill to make them, perhaps I would not be going to Butter is Better. Come to think of it, I'd be going anyway - the atmosphere is very congenial.

Bread is easy with a bread maker, just throw in the ingredients and start. I also have a ice cream maker, lime sorbet is nice 1 cup of lime juice, 1 cup of sugar and 1 cup of cold water in the ice cream maker.

[butterisbetter]

I went there will not bother again as my bread maker will arrive soon and I can bake fresh bread rather than there frozen offerings.

First off, we do fresh bake Italian bread and Italian buns,and croissants made with butter every day. Also, lots of fresh pastries. As for the rest…

On the one hand, we have garyh who by his own admission isnot a baker.

On the other hand, we have Peter Reinhart one of the top bakers and baking teachers inthe world. Reinhart gives quite specific instructions on how to properlyfreeze bread. Anyone interested ininstructions can go to page 99 of the Bread Baker’s Apprentice forfurther details. I doubt Reinhart wouldbother to go to such lengths if he felt the freezing was doing bread a seriousinjury.

In fact, bread is at the height of its flavor just after itcools down to room temperature. If youproperly freeze the bread at this stage, you can capture 99% of its flavor.

People who actually bake bread and think about it, asopposed to those who simply nurse their sullen prejudices, know that the mostimportant factors for bread are the quality of the ingredients used and thetechniques used to prepare it.

Take our focaccia as an example. We use unbleachedAustralian hard wheat, salt, water, and virgin olive oil and just a little bitof yeast. After making the dough we putit in the refrigerator and let it rise slowly for 36 hours. This slow rise is crucial to developing theflavor. Before putting it in the oven, we may top it with fresh rosemary, orsesame seeds, or nothing at all. Onceout of the oven we let it cool down, wrap it snugly and put it in thefreezer. We’ve had Italians from Romewho tell me it tastes just like what they get at home, except ours is a littlebit less salty.

We have a customer from Austria who was making how own darksourdough rye at home (made from a 150 year old family starter) because hecouldn’t find real sourdough dark rye here. He raves about ours. And withreason. We make our own sourdough starter, grind the traditional spicesourselves, and use 65% dark rye flour and 35% whole wheat flour to make thisbread. Germans who try it consistentlytell us it tastes like what their now sadly defunct grandmothers used tomake. (This bread isn’t for everybody.It’s so heavy that I suspect the old Reichstag was built with it instead ofbricks. )

Actually, the odds are good the many people here been eating frozen bread and just don’t knowit. Certain well known farang stylebakeries here actually do freeze and refreeze their bread. If you get to themearly enough in the morning, you may find that their bread is oddly chilly. At least, I hope they’re freezing thebread. Because, for some reason,refrigerating bread does dry it out, no matter how well you wrap it.

Another baker, locally famous for its artisan breads,actually makes them from mixes. Thesemixes consist of various doughs, such assourdough that are freeze-dried and ground back into a kind of flour. Now the mixes they use are the best Europeanmixes money can buy, but they just don’t taste the same as bread made fromscratch.

Of course, you canget fresh plenty of fresh bread in Chiang Mai. There are local Thai bakeries that do make fresh bread every day. They use bleached low gluten flower, lots of yeast, and let it rise in a hotroom. It tastes pretty insipid to me,but there’s no accounting for tastes. Thereis also, the fresh packaged Farmhouse bread which I quite like for some things. For instance, their hot dog rolls where we want the bread just to get out of the wayof the flavor of our all beef hot dogs.

There’s a researcher named Linda Bartoshuk who has conductedextensive tests on humans and found that roughly one third of the populationare what she calls non-tasters, people who have relatively few taste buds andnot much sense of taste. Now some people are very open about their lackof interest in food and wonder what all the fuss is about. They probably suffer from this deficiency. But others, more insecure, may, cling toexternal criteria such as, oh, say, freezing to establish their bonae fidesas gourmets. I name no names here.

[SausageKing]

I send you the very best of luck and hope you have all the success and i will come and try your bread. am sure that will be nice with my bacon on it. Rob?sk

I went there will not bother again as my bread maker will arrive soon and I can bake fresh bread rather than there frozen offerings.

First off, we do fresh bake Italian bread and Italian buns,and croissants made with butter every day. Also, lots of fresh pastries. As for the rest…

On the one hand, we have garyh who by his own admission isnot a baker.

On the other hand, we have Peter Reinhart one of the top bakers and baking teachers inthe world. Reinhart gives quite specific instructions on how to properlyfreeze bread. Anyone interested ininstructions can go to page 99 of the Bread Baker's Apprentice forfurther details. I doubt Reinhart wouldbother to go to such lengths if he felt the freezing was doing bread a seriousinjury.

In fact, bread is at the height of its flavor just after itcools down to room temperature. If youproperly freeze the bread at this stage, you can capture 99% of its flavor.

People who actually bake bread and think about it, asopposed to those who simply nurse their sullen prejudices, know that the mostimportant factors for bread are the quality of the ingredients used and thetechniques used to prepare it.

Take our focaccia as an example. We use unbleachedAustralian hard wheat, salt, water, and virgin olive oil and just a little bitof yeast. After making the dough we putit in the refrigerator and let it rise slowly for 36 hours. This slow rise is crucial to developing theflavor. Before putting it in the oven, we may top it with fresh rosemary, orsesame seeds, or nothing at all. Onceout of the oven we let it cool down, wrap it snugly and put it in thefreezer. We've had Italians from Romewho tell me it tastes just like what they get at home, except ours is a littlebit less salty.

We have a customer from Austria who was making how own darksourdough rye at home (made from a 150 year old family starter) because hecouldn't find real sourdough dark rye here. He raves about ours. And withreason. We make our own sourdough starter, grind the traditional spicesourselves, and use 65% dark rye flour and 35% whole wheat flour to make thisbread. Germans who try it consistentlytell us it tastes like what their now sadly defunct grandmothers used tomake. (This bread isn't for everybody.It's so heavy that I suspect the old Reichstag was built with it instead ofbricks. )

Actually, the odds are good the many people here been eating frozen bread and just don't knowit. Certain well known farang stylebakeries here actually do freeze and refreeze their bread. If you get to themearly enough in the morning, you may find that their bread is oddly chilly. At least, I hope they're freezing thebread. Because, for some reason,refrigerating bread does dry it out, no matter how well you wrap it.

Another baker, locally famous for its artisan breads,actually makes them from mixes. Thesemixes consist of various doughs, such assourdough that are freeze-dried and ground back into a kind of flour. Now the mixes they use are the best Europeanmixes money can buy, but they just don't taste the same as bread made fromscratch.

Of course, you canget fresh plenty of fresh bread in Chiang Mai. There are local Thai bakeries that do make fresh bread every day. They use bleached low gluten flower, lots of yeast, and let it rise in a hotroom. It tastes pretty insipid to me,but there's no accounting for tastes. Thereis also, the fresh packaged Farmhouse bread which I quite like for some things. For instance, their hot dog rolls where we want the bread just to get out of the wayof the flavor of our all beef hot dogs.

There's a researcher named Linda Bartoshuk who has conductedextensive tests on humans and found that roughly one third of the populationare what she calls non-tasters, people who have relatively few taste buds andnot much sense of taste. Now some people are very open about their lackof interest in food and wonder what all the fuss is about. They probably suffer from this deficiency. But others, more insecure, may, cling toexternal criteria such as, oh, say, freezing to establish their bonae fidesas gourmets. I name no names here.

[Ulysses G.]

There's a researcher named Linda Bartoshuk who has conductedextensive tests on humans and found that roughly one third of the populationare what she calls non-tasters, people who have relatively few taste buds and not much sense of taste. Now some people are very open about their lackof interest in food and wonder what all the fuss is about. They probably suffer from this deficiency. But others, more insecure, may, cling to external criteria such as, oh, say, freezing to establish their bonae fides as gourmets. I name no names here.

I have long suspected this of some Thai Visa food critics.

[venturalaw]

I went there will not bother again as my bread maker will arrive soon and I can bake fresh bread rather than there frozen offerings.

I haven't experienced anything frozen at Butter is Better other than the homemade ice cream, which is the best I have ever had for 20 - 25 baht per scoop.

Now, if I had an ice cream maker, plus the recipes for the pies, cookies, cakes, breads, etc., and the time and skill to make them, perhaps I would not be going to Butter is Better. Come to think of it, I'd be going anyway - the atmosphere is very congenial.

Bread is easy with a bread maker, just throw in the ingredients and start. I also have a ice cream maker, lime sorbet is nice 1 cup of lime juice, 1 cup of sugar and 1 cup of cold water in the ice cream maker.

I can see how that would work out for you. Tell me - when asking for a nice red wine, is your choice Ripple or Thunderbird?

Edited October 31, 2010 by venturalaw

[lingnoi1977]

I do wonder why when someone posts something educational, informative, nice etc. there is always a rhetorical anti-reply. What's the point?

There is a relatively small percentage of food industry people who do their best to educate the consumer in a pleasant manner which sadly falls on dud palates sometimes.

I am not sure which is worse - ignorance or all-conquering knowledge when armed with a little bit of information. Both are present which poses a constant challenge for those in the food/wine/hospitality industry. It's not so much how good one's product is but how it is understood, or misunderstood in some cases.

Butter is Better baked goods are without question excellent quality and I applaud the owners attempts to educate and encourage understanding amongst those who may be confused about food preparation and flavour/texture outcomes. It's an up hill battle at times.

Does Ripple come in flagons?

[garyh]

I went there will not bother again as my bread maker will arrive soon and I can bake fresh bread rather than there frozen offerings.

I haven't experienced anything frozen at Butter is Better other than the homemade ice cream, which is the best I have ever had for 20 - 25 baht per scoop.

Now, if I had an ice cream maker, plus the recipes for the pies, cookies, cakes, breads, etc., and the time and skill to make them, perhaps I would not be going to Butter is Better. Come to think of it, I'd be going anyway - the atmosphere is very congenial.

Bread is easy with a bread maker, just throw in the ingredients and start. I also have a ice cream maker, lime sorbet is nice 1 cup of lime juice, 1 cup of sugar and 1 cup of cold water in the ice cream maker.

I can see how that would work out for you. Tell me - when asking for a nice red wine, is your choice Ripple or Thunderbird?

More likely Peter Lehmanns, but I have yet to look if it is or any other Australian wines are available in Chiang Mai.

[hmficc]

I went there will not bother again as my bread maker will arrive soon and I can bake fresh bread rather than there frozen offerings.

[/quote

]If your "baker" is a person -maybe. If it is a machine-well hmmm.

[Sansai Sam]

HMMM...You got your bread maker and your ice cream machine....perhaps buy a microwave too and you will never have to visit local restaurants at all!

Edited October 31, 2010 by Sansai Sam

[Ta22]

there is no best or better , it all depend on what you prefer or what you like .

but one thing i personally feel is that , we try not to discredit other while praising or self promote .

i suggest you focus on your good work as baker instead of a saleman

[garyh]

I think you would have to a long way to find a gourmet that will tell you fresh is not best.

[Ta22]

i like my Wine aged , i like my Cheese aged , like my Sugar aged , like my coffee aged , like my sourmilk aged , like my yeast aged some yeast had been used for 10 - 20 years , like my fermented soysauce aged .

i am learning everyday .

[Ulysses G.]

I think you would have to a long way to find a gourmet that will tell you fresh is not best.

It really depends on what dish one is talking about, but I still much have something that is frozen from an excellent cook using good ingredients than "fresh" from a mediocre cook.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[butterisbetter]

I think you would have to a long way to find a gourmet that will tell you fresh is not best.

Well, let's take the case of seafood, where freshness is reckoned to be crucial. And not just any seafood, but sushi.

"But Shin Tsujimura, the sushi chef at Nobu, closer to Wall Street, said he

froze his own tuna.'Even I cannot tell the difference between fresh and frozen in a blind test,' he said."

The above appeared in an April 8, 2004 article in the New York Times.

But let's concede, for the sake of argument, that fresh is better. Does that mean it's the sine qua non? Apparently, based on your first comment and last comment, for you it is.

But those of us who actually work with food, know the issue is much more complicated. For one thing it depends on the food. Fresh fruits really can't be frozen and taste fresh when eaten raw. But on the other hand for making pies, frozen cherries and blueberries perform brilliantly. I don't intend to rehearse here the idyll that wasn't my childhood, but I used to harvest huge amounts of sour cherries for my mother, and help her pit them and freeze them. All winter long she baked pies that to me at, least, and others who had the good fortune to eat them, tasted scarcely distinguishable from fresh cherries. Of course, she made pies with a real buttercrust.

Actually, if you freeze the pie before baking, the pie crust becomes even flakier when baked. Most pie eaters believe that for pie crusts, flakier is better. According to you absolutists of freshness, apparently not.

Or let's return to the question of bread. Bread has the most flavor just after it has cooled to room temperature. So which is better? A loaf of bread that was frozen at the peak of its flavor or one you eat 2 hours after it was baked? How about 4 hours after it was baked? 6hours? I truly don't know the answer. Since you seem so definite on the issue, perhaps you could share the data you have rigorously accumulated with us? I'm sure you wouldn't be the kind of person to voice disparaging opinions of someone else's products based just on an ill-considered prejudice. I await your data with interest.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Carrefour Sanpatong had bread on sale. Bright Green Bread. A huge loaf for, freshly baked and still warm. VERY yummie; I thought it'd be sweet but it wasn't, tastes like regular white bread, except a bit yummier. 25 baht, killer price too.

[anonymouse]

Carrefour Sanpatong had bread on sale. Bright Green Bread. A huge loaf for, freshly baked and still warm. VERY yummie; I thought it'd be sweet but it wasn't, tastes like regular white bread, except a bit yummier. 25 baht, killer price too.

Yes when I saw it the first time a few months back I thought that they had made some mistake in the baking process hence the cheap price, it does taste good and the wife and kids like the pretty colour

[direx12]

Where is Nim city? Nimmanheiman?

[ThaiPauly]

No its on Mandihol Road very close to Airport Plaza

[Sansai Sam]

I keep a bag of rolls in my freezer. I buy them at Makro where they are baked half way and then frozen. You bake them off and they are quite good.

[CMX]

I cannot think how as a practicing gourmet or glutton that I might add to this genteel discussion except to clarify matters for myself.

However well written BB's argument about freezing, in spite of its turn of phrase, it is yet valid. The venue for blind tastings of everything frozen or unfrozen is yet to be invented, and then we'll argue about the panel.

But valid as well is Garyh's mention that gourmets think that fresh is always better.

Even I might have been mistaken on this point, so I feel it necessary to step forward and begin the investigation. Pies first I think. I'll report back.

[Ulysses G.]

gourmets think that fresh is always better.

Some folks that think that they are gourmets think that fresh is always better, but some gourmets actually know better.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[CheGuava]

Clearly when you freeze bread the crust never comes back to being crunchy, unless perhaps if you do work on it after taking it out of the freezer? It'll be cold and dead coming out of there.

[Ta22]

Food is not all about Taste . i can say is sometime not about freshness , it be even more complex to say sometime is not even about even about if it very clean .

i know and seem many food process and tasted many type of food across asia .

You do not want to see Tuna Process trust me . that why i stay away from Tuna nowaday .

all i can say is Most frozen Tuna is junk food .

it will depend on what you talking baout .. compare some food with FISH like tuna is weird to said so . from someone who know little about Tuna . but then i guess he is just trying to make an example . that frozen can be good .

just to touch on it Tuna you got to have it Fresh . it really taste and look different . i was in japan for almost a years in my youth . and i work for a magazine company as photographer ,

i get to travel all over Japan . and our client and Host really treat us to good Food . allowing me the chances to taste really wide range of japanese good.

Tuna .

once i was at a Mitsubishi event . the top exec let a helicopter land on the roof top and bring in a LIVE tuna from the Sea . 4 chef . work on it and you get the best Tuna you ever tasted . and never was i once impress with tuna else where and the color and taste is never the same .

Top chef .

most tuna that is out of Sea is already frozen . before it reach the port . cos fishing may tae days or week before the ship dock . what else would there said since the supply line is frozen it would be like slapping on once face if there did not say that .

depending on what kinda of food you going IF it SASHIMI

the reason i even eat SASHIMI is that it MUST BE FRESH .

so i do not agree with Frozen TUNA i don;t relaly care which top chef said that and i do not know him anyway . any simple japanese would told you fresh Sashimi is BEST .

it vary from different type of food . and freshness Vary .

in some case it need to be extremely fresh .

in some case it just need to be within a few days .

is really a complex combination and understand process

.

so .

to end this weird reply .

too much anything is not Good .

[Ulysses G.]

Clearly when you freeze bread the crust never comes back to being crunchy

That is true if it is a hard crust bread, but Butter is Better makes and serves that type of bread only fresh. It makes little difference fir a soft crust.

[lingnoi1977]

gourmets think that fresh is always better.

Some folks that think that they are gourmets think that fresh is always better, but some gourmets actually know better.

Gourmet - one of the most over used (and annoying) words related to the food industry.

Almost as bad as Cordon Bleu...